Author Topic: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?  (Read 16857 times)

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Offline KneverKnew

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EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« on: June 05, 2024, 12:55:41 PM »
Well sometimes things like this happen to me. Could be my advancing age, pure stupidity or a combination of these and other things. I bid on this police seizure gun months ago. It’s in pretty rough shape but still functional, or so they say. Is missing the mag. I figured it might be a good project gun at some point. I put in my max bid of not very much, and promptly forgot about it. Turns out I won it. Oh…joy…I think. Where can I get original mags for this. Not sure, but I think it may be a compact.

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2024, 01:01:10 PM »
Here are auction house pictures.







This actually may be full size? Used to be.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 06:55:05 AM by Wobbly »

Offline Gunnerdad80

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2024, 01:07:01 PM »
It’s a full-size, small frame 9mm. I definitely dig the rounded, egg shaped triggered. It looks like a custom 90. Those frames were also used in the production of the ITM AT84s pistols. Is there anything stamped on the left side of the frame next to the slide lock/release? Also, are there any secondary importer marks on it?

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2024, 02:04:18 PM »
Well I’m glad someone likes something about this pistol. Maybe it won’t be a piece of junk after all.
I see no other import marks or markings on frame near safety/ slide lock. Of course, the stock pictures aren’t great. I can provide better images once it arrives. How about manufacture date? It has a single H prefix SN.
I am clueless concerning these pistols. Can you expound a bit about it being a Custom 90? What it is. Also what are the ITM AT84’s? Thanks.

Any idea best place to get a good magazine for this model? So it’s a full size/ small frame right? I assume 17 round would be correct. Do any cz-75 mags work?

Offline Gunnerdad80

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2024, 03:49:50 PM »
As far as mags go, I believe you need the older 15 & 16 round CZ type mags if you want a more flush fit. Others may or may not work/lock in properly, and may not fit flush to the bottom of the mag well. As in you may be able to use a 17,18, or 19 round extended mag but it may not set flush against the mag well. You may find flush fit mags at https://mec-gar.com/ or https://gregcotellc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=site_map . The frame will be closer to a CZ style that utilizes a non ambi mag release, and has the CZ style mag release & trigger bar springs that are secured with a screw. The Tanfoglio "Custom 90" was a limited run of pistols in which they used leftover parts from the contracted production of the ITM AT84s pistol parts and just leftover parts in general to build them. At the same time they were rolling out the newer, replacement "Series 88" pistols with frames using a reversible mag release that has a much better trigger bar spring and mag release spring setup.

The ITM AT84s was a Swiss pistol built with parts from Tanfoglio but finished by ITM (Industrial Technology & Machines) in Solothurn, Switzerland. Some good info here, https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/21/itm-at84-ultra-rare-swiss-made-cz-75-pistol/  The AT84s came after the AT84. The AT84, I believe, was the first licensed copy of the CZ75. The AT84s was more of a CZ clone and is believed to be the grandfather of the Swiss Sphinx AT2000, https://special-ops.org/sphinx-at-2000-an-improved-version-of-the-czechoslovakian-cz-75-pistol/ The ITM pistols are somewhat rare and vary wildly in value.

I definitely love your pistols style trigger guard but not a fan of the mag release/trigger bar spring setup. The fact that it doesn't have secondary importer marks is fantastic as far as value and aesthetics. Though the finish is pretty rough on yours, it should still be a great shooter. It's interesting that nothing is stamped at all on the frame next to the slide lock/release. That makes me think the frame might've been destined for an ITM AT84s build. I had a pistol very similar to yours that had no markings in the same place as yours. After I had it refinished, you could hold the frame up to a good light source at the right angle and see where the frame was pre etched to receive the ITM Solothurn Switzerland stampings for an AT84s build. Clean up the frame on that left side, oil it and hold it up to the light and try to see if those same etchings are there. I'm kinda curious.

Hope this helps.

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2024, 04:01:56 PM »
Ok. What exactly should these etchings say?

Also, where did you have your gun refinished?


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Offline Gunnerdad80

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2024, 05:17:28 PM »
I had it done at this place in Houston, https://lohmangunsmith.com/
If it has etchings they should read like this,   Solothurn + ITM + Switzerland , but in a stacked pattern.
                                                             

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2024, 05:22:24 PM »
I had it done at this place in Houston, https://lohmangunsmith.com/
If it has etchings they should read like this,   SOLOTHURN
                                                              +       ITM       +
                                                                SWITZERLAND
                                                             
The link you provided showed a picture with those words stamped on left side of frame in front of slide lock. Is that where you found your etchings?


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Offline Gunnerdad80

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2024, 08:17:28 PM »
Yes, on the left side in front of the slide lock/release. If they are present they will be very faint.

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2024, 08:22:55 PM »
Yes, on the left side in front of the slide lock/release. If they are present they will be very faint.
From what I can see on the auction photograph of the left side, zoomed in all I see is the oxidation. I can’t see even the faintest sign of etchings of Switzerland. For that matter, I don’t see any model designation or manufactures name anywhere on the gun. All I see is the read the manual warning and then the serial numbers. Again the serial number has an H prefix.
SN is H36###
So how can I tell what exactly I have? I’m not sure how they determined it was an EAA Tanfoglio Witness in the first place.


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Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2024, 08:33:41 PM »


I found this picture of a custom 90. The writing on the slide is the same as mine. I wanted to find out what it actually said since it was such a poor picture. So it does say, Miami Florida. But it does not have any writing on the slide below. The only writing on the opposite side is the serial number stamped on both the slide and frame. I sure wished we could be more sure of what model it is. Still no idea about the serial number?

« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 06:56:33 AM by Wobbly »

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2024, 08:42:39 PM »
Based on the picture above , And from what I can make out on the side of my pistol, the importer is FIE. What does that tell us?
From what i’m reading FIE means it’s pre-EAA formation.


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Offline Gunnerdad80

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2024, 09:41:46 PM »
Correct. EAA came about when importers FIE & Excam merged. Well, one absorbed the other. You won’t be able to see anything on the frame from pics. You’ll just have to wait till you have it in hand.

Offline Gunnerdad80

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2024, 09:49:00 PM »
Here you go, found a post I made a while back. https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=113013.msg878936#msg878936

Offline KneverKnew

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Re: EAA Tanfoglio Witness Police seizure. Project gun?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2024, 08:22:14 AM »
Excellent info and pictures in your original post about the at84s. Thank you.
May I ask, how much did your refinish cost you? Did you have it reblued or cerakoted?
Do you think mine can be salvaged with all the rust pitting?