Author Topic: Sale on unissued surplus mags  (Read 10564 times)

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Offline MeatAxe

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Sale on unissued surplus mags
« on: July 12, 2024, 10:26:16 AM »
Haven’t seen prices this low - $20 - for a while !

At Carolina Shooters Supply. Click Here


[Mods added hyperlink]
« Last Edit: August 15, 2024, 07:27:16 AM by Wobbly »

Offline jwc007

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2024, 12:05:30 PM »
Sweet deal!  8)  :)
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline mikec

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2024, 12:55:36 AM »
Got 20 of them, 10 for me, 10 for a friend.  Although they are new, they came packaged loose, unwrapped, with small paint chips on almost all mags.  “Surplus condition”.  Have bought brand new mags in the past with zero flaws.

More annoying, the company requires a signature, which I don’t remember being mentioned during the ordering process, so plan on a trip to the post office.

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2024, 03:40:49 PM »
Got 20 of them, 10 for me, 10 for a friend.  Although they are new, they came packaged loose, unwrapped, with small paint chips on almost all mags.  “Surplus condition”.  Have bought brand new mags in the past with zero flaws.

More annoying, the company requires a signature, which I don’t remember being mentioned during the ordering process, so plan on a trip to the post office.

Well, they’re NOS surplus, so they’ve probably been kicking around in storage for 30 years. They should function perfectly, though. I bet CSS would give you a refund because now they’re back up to selling for $30 - $40 each.

Numrich sold these things for years packed loose (never wrapped) but in pristine condition for $20 a pop. Now they’re charging $32 each, so I suppose the supply of pristine  surplus Vz58 mags is dwindling. I doubt they’re still in production since the Czech Republic adopted the Bren.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2024, 03:53:20 PM by MeatAxe »

Offline briang2ad

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2024, 11:27:34 AM »
The clear plastic ones are more durable.  And at $35 I'd get those. 

Offline RSR

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2024, 03:04:52 AM »
The clear plastic ones are more durable.  And at $35 I'd get those.

 :-\ How do you figure?

Offline briang2ad

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2024, 12:03:13 PM »
The clear plastic ones are more durable.  And at $35 I'd get those.

 :-\ How do you figure?

I figure it this way. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lR-CYmPPGwA

While the surplus mags are great mags - they WILL break in certain situations.  They aren't steel.  Are they still good value at $30 and unissued? - yes.

The polymer CSA mags are super and outdo the Bulgy AK mags which are considered by many (not me) to be the gold standard.  The CSA polymer mags MAY be the best x39 mags in the world. 

« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 10:33:41 AM by briang2ad »

Offline RSR

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2024, 11:19:10 PM »
I figure it this way. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lR-CYmPPGwA

While the surplus mags are great mags - they WILL break in certain situations.  They aren't steel.  Are they still good value at $30 and unissued? - yes.

The polymer CSA mags are super and outdo the Bulgy AK mags which are considered by many (not me) to be the gold standard.  The CSA polymer mags MAY be the best x39 mags in the world.

The only thing in that video is a the feedlip drop test.  You can engineer any mag to exceed in one dimension vs. peers...

The fact of the matter is that mag inserted into the gun and dropped will sheer the CSA mag's poly mag catch and render it entirely nonfuctional.   That poly mag is also much more likely to be destroyed in that scenario than the aluminum mag -- why nearly all serious use AK mags, including Magpul's premium, have steel reinforcement of the mag catch area. 
The Vz58 aluminum mag may dent and bind the follower when dropped while in gun if impacting side, but it can nevertheless be disassembled and refurbished, and its mag latch is substantially less likely to sheer vs. poly that may also scrape sufficient material off to become nonfunctional even if not completely breaking.

*I'd also argue that since less surface area interface (Vz58= roughly 1/2 of mag width vs. AK effectively full mag width), the Vz58 poly mags are even more likely to sheer if dropped than equivalent AK mags, where such an issue is a known and indisputable problem.

The OEM alloy mags are also lighter than CSA poly IIRC, and unlike AR15 milspec aluminum mags that remain military standard issue to this day, the OEM alloy Vz58 are roughly 3x as durable due to thicker material (and I'd argue superior shape/stamping with respect to ridges, insets, etc. that all increase stability/durability over just a flat stamp) and required none of the lifecycle improvements that the AR15 mags did during the GWOT for the AR mags to become truly combat-reliable.

In sum, one test by the vendor of a competing product does not prove that that product is superior -- Magpul's done rebuttals of Lancer/ETS/Hexmags (and perhaps others) on the AR forums, with their attempting to game cracks/splits/etc. when dropped, and Magpuls still functioned in magwells even when broken...  And their reduced flexibility was designed for certain things including (IIRC) less degradation from DEET/insect repellant, greater operating temp range, and other specs that affect overall reliability in normal use, instead of prioritizing torture test performance by opting for a softer/more flexible polymer like their competitors...

To be clear -- I don't fully subscribe to Magpul's assertions, and most my poly AR mags are Lancers, but I will grant that I do believe Magpul's philosophy of design is coherent and their claims more right/accurate than wrong/misleading...

**Lastly, do want to note the CSA Vz58 mags appear to be made from the same or similar polymer as the early CZ Skorpion EVO mags that were notorious for cracking and other long-term reliability issues.  Transparency in poly mags always comes at a substantial cost, as it limits fiber reinforcement/the skeleton of the surrounding polymer body itself.

YMMV.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 11:50:53 PM by RSR »

Offline briang2ad

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2024, 12:00:38 PM »
Quote
The fact of the matter is that mag inserted into the gun and dropped will sheer the CSA mag's poly mag catch and render it entirely nonfuctional.

Show me and I will recant.  Yes, because similar tests on AK mags do sometimes sheer the lug, this MAY be the case.  If you watch Mr GNG test all polymer newer Tapco AK mags - they do not sheer.  The polymer in the Tapco AK mags is NOT as good as the CSA polymer mags. 

Any mag that can get beat like that from shoulder height fully loaded and dropped repeatedly on its lips is impressive.  And to put the Bulgarian polymer mags in the dust on a drop test is a strong indicator that the polymer is the best in any mag.

The locking lug on the VZ 58 is VERY SMALL and more subject to sheering than an AK mag - and IF the VZ 58 mag were STEEL I'd probably agree with you. 

But they are aluminum and will also likely shatter.  Sounds like a good video.

So... again.  The OEM Military mags are excellent mags and sufficient (enough) for all use.  But both the OEM and CSA polymer mags are likely a tad weak in the locking tab.

Thanks to Meataxe for posting a good deal  - very good for unissued OEM mags.  $20 is a screaming deal. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2024, 01:53:55 PM by briang2ad »

Offline czrob2

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2024, 08:24:24 AM »
I bought a 10-round poly Vz.58 mag a year ago and didn't end up (trying) to use it for several months.  When I did, I couldn't even get it to insert/click properly in my Vz.58.  Ended up throwing it in the trash.

I bought one of the aluminum ones and it works perfectly.

Offline briang2ad

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2024, 01:06:57 PM »
I bought a 10-round poly Vz.58 mag a year ago and didn't end up (trying) to use it for several months.  When I did, I couldn't even get it to insert/click properly in my Vz.58.  Ended up throwing it in the trash.

I bought one of the aluminum ones and it works perfectly.

None of my poly 58 mags have this problem and work great. Two slight downsides:  They don't always drop totally free with my enhanced mag release, and they are a tad larger, making it hard to use in some pouches - But Chicoms do work. 

Offline RSR

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2024, 06:48:40 AM »
Quote
The fact of the matter is that mag inserted into the gun and dropped will sheer the CSA mag's poly mag catch and render it entirely nonfuctional.

Show me and I will recant.  Yes, because similar tests on AK mags do sometimes sheer the lug, this MAY be the case.  If you watch Mr GNG test all polymer newer Tapco AK mags - they do not sheer.  The polymer in the Tapco AK mags is NOT as good as the CSA polymer mags. 

Any mag that can get beat like that from shoulder height fully loaded and dropped repeatedly on its lips is impressive.  And to put the Bulgarian polymer mags in the dust on a drop test is a strong indicator that the polymer is the best in any mag.

The locking lug on the VZ 58 is VERY SMALL and more subject to sheering than an AK mag - and IF the VZ 58 mag were STEEL I'd probably agree with you. 

But they are aluminum and will also likely shatter.  Sounds like a good video.

So... again.  The OEM Military mags are excellent mags and sufficient (enough) for all use.  But both the OEM and CSA polymer mags are likely a tad weak in the locking tab.

Thanks to Meataxe for posting a good deal  - very good for unissued OEM mags.  $20 is a screaming deal.

Most magazine tests by mag companies themselves are like kids studying for a test -- they crammed everything they could into performance in tested capabilities while doing little to nothing on the rest.  Like a tire that's excellent handling in dry and is terrible in wet, or tire that excels in wet but is terrible with durability/treadwear. 

Tapco mags are all opaque and highly polymer reinforced, and also heavy for polymer.  Opaque and clear magazines ARE NOT yet equivalent.  There are some translucent fibers being used more often, but those still can't be used at same density as opaque mags can...
The Tapco that made the mags is also shuttered/out-of-business and new entity is a post-Freedom Group sale badge and AFAIK not making mags.
Personally, I only own 20 round AK mags and 30 round Galil Tapco waffle mags, but I can speak to them w/ firsthand knowledge.

Again, translucent vs. opaque polymers still makes a huge difference.  Wonder why industry-leading PMags still only have windows instead of entirely translucent bodies?

For Vz58 clear CSA mags, I will note that they do have the lip that *should* abut the magwell unlike AK mags, BUT I don't have one to test if it's as prominent as the aluminum (doesn't look to be but cannot say for certain).  That does help to protect from drop sheering.
However, metal on polymer does typically wear the polymer faster than does metal on metal -- meaning your polymer mags are fine as disposable use mags, but aren't suitable for long-term "no replacement available" use.  The OEM mags will be more reliable under such scenarios. 
And that lip being present on OEM mags also suggests that Czech designers knew partial width mag catch and aluminum was necessary to meet/exceed performance of full width steel lip on AK mags -- Soviets required the Vz58 to meet/exceed AK performance parameters prior to adoption/mass production.

And we've also covered here before -- but polymer mags do tend to be more subject to catastrophic and irreparable failures, while aluminum mags do tend to be more subject to temporary reliability failures due to dents and dings that can be repaired by skilled gunsmiths/metalworkers, and until repaired may hinder complete functionality but do tend to remain at least partially functionable until repaired (e.g., dent in metal mag preventing full follower travel nevertheless does still allow a dozen+ rounds to be loaded and fired w/o issue).
« Last Edit: September 09, 2024, 06:53:45 AM by RSR »

Offline briang2ad

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2024, 10:51:55 AM »
Willing to learn about Soviet requirements of the VZ 58.  Please share if you have that.

Obviously the magazine requirements were not shared, and the 'standard' is the steel AK mag - especially at the time of VZ 58 production.   There is no way that the Aluminum alloy VZ 58 mags are of the same durability as the steel AK mags. 

It IS obvious from the video that the mag feed lips of the polymer mags beats the Aluminum in this drop test.  How they compare on rifle drop tests is unknown. 

Offline RSR

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2024, 08:45:08 AM »
I thought it was common knowledge that the Czechs to needed to meet/exceed AK performance requirements to adopt their own weapon system on multiple fronts.  Yugo early 1960 tests had Vz58 and AK47 performing similarly for intance.

Russians were also looking to replace their steel mag by the early 1960s, which is effectively contemporaneous w/ Vz58 adoption...  Steel AK mags' performance is not 2x that of Vz58 mags, despite those steel AK mags weighing twice as much.

Polymer mags are inherently more elastic than metal ones -- it's the competing bend vs. break philosophies.

Also magpul just released polymer mags that look to be E-code facsimiles and likely kevlar or similar transparent fiber reinforced given green color...  Regardless, I suspect they won't be proven to be as durable in testing as the Gen3 PMag, where only the black/carbon-heavy dyed and sand (un-dyed) mags were adopted... 

Offline briang2ad

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Re: Sale on unissued surplus mags
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2024, 05:13:54 PM »
Quote
I thought it was common knowledge that the Czechs to needed to meet/exceed AK performance requirements to adopt their own weapon system on multiple fronts.  Yugo early 1960 tests had Vz58 and AK47 performing similarly for intance.
 

Just want to see it documented.  I've never heard this before and find it funny that Ian McCollum never mentioned it with regards to why the VZ 58 was allowed to be different.
Why the Czechs were free to act differently seems to be their own manufacturing capability.  I've just never read about them needing to meet "performance requirements" the same as the AK - and obviously it would have been based on the AK 47, because the AKM was a parallel development.  They seem to be fielded relatively in parallel. 

Does the VZ 58 represent a reliable, accurate, and lighter assault rifle - yes. 

There seem to be two primary insults to mags.  One is dropping the rifle on the mag onto a hard surface - in this manner, the AK mag is clearly superior.  The locking lug on the AK is crazy robust.  Not so much the VZ 58. 

The other way is a drop on the feedlips.  Obviously the video I supplied showed vulnerability with the VZ 58 lips cracking.  Sure the steel lips of the AK CAN deform, but they are quite durable.