Author Topic: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?  (Read 2617 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fasteddie01

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« on: November 01, 2024, 03:08:28 PM »
Hi - I have a 2017 CZ 455 SS Lux that I bought USED with ca-500 rounds thru it over 2-years ago. At the time I B-scoped it and saw this pitting and what looked like 'lead-glazing', but it shot quite accurately (for me) so I didn't worry. At this point I'm still wondering if this is a common condition or just the result of 'poor maintenance' by the OEM owner. I'm wondering if this is a large buildup of lead or just pitting and initial 'seasoning'.  It wasn't 'super-clean' when I bought it ? I've cleaned with Hoppes-9 and C-4 and even Vinegar/H-peroxide, and have it looking good but I'm still wondering . . .
Any opinions/information on this? Here's pics of the bore, just cleaned recently ( 10/29/24)
First Leade & first rifling, then mid-bore. Looks like this throughout the bore.
PS - It still shoots in the .3-4xx with SK-RM. And ca 2500 rounds fired.

EDIT - I've added bore-pics from 2022 since my question was focused on the cause of the pitting, not how it related to accuracy. This will never be a competition rig w/o major upgrades that won't happen. In these older pics there is a noticeable 'shiny' look to the bore especially. Is that from 'leading' or just because the first owner didn't clean as well as I do and the pits were 'filled in back then? Anyone with experience with CZ-22LR SS bores ?

2024


2024


2022


2022


2022


2022



[Mods edited image widths]
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 08:27:41 AM by Wobbly »

Offline Fasteddie01

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2024, 07:12:04 AM »
Over 640 views and No Opinions.  Is the SS barrel that rare or ? ? no one looks ? ?

Offline GeoW

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2024, 08:34:18 PM »
Think you've been attacked by the BS monster..  O0

Offline Fasteddie01

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2024, 06:56:47 PM »
Yah, Sure NOT much ACTION on this Forum-board.  I keep checking and my post from Nov-01-2024 is the TOP OF THE LIST ! !
Too bad that I've got lots of info, this 455 SS Lux and a 457 VMTR, and no one to talk to.
BYE !

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7576
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2025, 09:21:01 AM »
Hope the OP didn't good bye I'm not coming back, ever.

I don't have a stainless steel .22 barreled rifle.

I do have some comments/questions.

Do you use a brush to remove lead/crud from the barrel or something like a lead removing cleaning solution?  I prefer a good purpose designed cleaning solution (lead remover or copper remover) vs. using a brush to scrub the barrel/rifling.

Do you put a light coat of oil on the inside of the barrel once you've cleaned it?  Even stainless steel corrodes.  It's more like to pit than to discolor/scale like regular steel, but it still corrodes.

Do you think the pitting you see now was there when you got it but is showing up more/better because you clean more/better than the original owner?  I remember one of the members here buying a bore scope (few years back) to look at his pistol barrels with and finding that as he removed a build up of baked on powder residue form the barrels he found pitting under some of those spots.  His theory was that maybe the powder residue buildup helped trap moisture between it and the barrel and caused pitting at a faster rate in those locations.

You can't remove the pitting you already have.  You can keep it from getting worse (deeper/larger pits) by keeping a light coat of oil on the inside of the barrel (outside, too) applied after you're satisfied with the cleaning work.

I do not, ever, push a brush, a patch/tip or jag through a barrel.  I always pull the brushes and patches/tip through the barrel and do that slowly while keeping an eye on the cleaning rod exiting the muzzle end of the barrel.  Oh, the brush/patch starts at the chamber end and is pulled to the muzzle end.  I'm cleaning crud from the barrel.  Why push it out of the barrel and into the chamber?  The reason for pulling rather than pushing is coated rod or not, when under compression (pushing through the barrel) the rod flexes and rubs the lands.  When pulling the rod is under tension and will stay straight as long as you don't lose focus and bend the rod as you pull it through.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Fasteddie01

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2025, 12:39:21 PM »
Happy New Year !
Yes, I was planning on Not Re-visiting this thread for another few months since as I said, there is very little activity on this board.  I just looked this AM and saw your post so I felt obligated to answer your long post.  Sorry that you don't have an SS barrel to add some insight to my issue - maybe it's so common no-one else bothered to reply ?  It's the only SS barrel I have among over a dozen rifles.
As for general 22LR cleaning, I use C4 to remove Carbon ring deposits and Hoppes #9 for general cleaning.  I use either a 'all-brass brush' or a nylon brush depending on the amount of cleaning needed.  And I, too, always PULL all cleaners from the muzzle !  Never could understand dragging any debris back into the chamber/action area.  And 'pushing' Does cause bowing no matter how 'little' pressure is used.  I originally used cheap aluminum rods, wiping them frequently during the cleaning so as to Not drag cra* thru the bore.  I was swayed by b-'n about that and got a 3-piece solid brass rod, loctite-ed together and joints polished.  I still wipe the rod after 1- 2 passes.  And I use 99% Alcohol on a paper towel to clean the rod AND use 1-2 Alc patches to remove any solvent residue at the 'next to last' step in cleaning. 
The 'Final step' is an oil patch, which I've lately (2-years) been doing with Mobil-1 Synth-oil.  After I do an oil change I invert the jug over a jar to collect the 'last ounce or two'.   This amount lasts a long time using just a few drops on a patch per rifle.
For really a fouled bore I have some Rem 40X Cleaner that's a mild abrasive, I've run some of that thru the 455 as well.  I find it's more effective on carbon and copper than Lead, I believe the lead is a 'thicker' fouling.
For this 455 bore, it seems that my cleaning regimen has removed a lot of build-up of lead, exposing the pitting I've shown.  Looking at the 2022 and 2024 pics shows a difference.  I haven't tried a 'specific lead removal solvent' since I've read that the SS bore is softer and will pit easily if solvents are left very long.  I don't recall if I used the 'Chore-boy on a brush' method on this rile, tho I have on a couple '51 Tula SKSs and it seemed to help them.
I keep some recordings of my 'bore-scope inspections' tho not all of them.  Just a few per year per rifle.  For a comparison at the end is a pic from a recent cleaning of my CZ-457 VMTR, which has approx the same amount of rounds fired.  Both rifles were 'new2me' with ca 1K rounds and now both have ca 3K shots fired.
One last thing, I plan to run more cleaning tests on the 455 to see if some other solvents will do more.  I have several to try, notably Thompson-Center Foaming bore solvent, Pro-shot Cu solvent and Hoppes Cu Solvent.  And I may try some of the Vinegar/Hyd-peroxide Lead solvent.  My only concern with these is the possibility of 'more pitting' being caused.  Shooting off a 'One-piece rest' and using a 6-24x50 Covenant-4 scope this rifle shoots ca 0.3xx- .6xx with SK-RM so not too bad, but always been sorta inconsistent, which has me messing with this issue.  Could always be me, too ?  Maybe this Winter I'll find an answer?





[Mods reduced image size]
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 08:41:29 AM by Wobbly »

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7576
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2025, 07:51:30 AM »
I really don't let bore cleaner, any type, sit on the metal longer than it takes to clean the action (AR15's and pistols).  I run a patch with the bore cleaner through the barrel, lay that down on the tool box/tower while cleaning/inspect/lubing the frame and then start the cleaning of the barrel.

I do have stainless barrels, but only on AR15's.  I've not bore scoped any of those.

The only really nice accurate .22 I have is an old Win. M52B.  Many years ago I could take the thumbtacks out of targets at 25 yds. and destroy flies on the target (just blood, a leg, or a piece of wing to show the fly had really been there.)  That would have made an awesome squirrel/rabbit rifle if I could have afforded the type of scope that mounted on one of those.  Never bore scoped it either.

These days I use Bore Tech copper and lead remover.  It'll go bad before I use all of it.  Not sure copper build up is an issue on a .22.

I've never made an attempt to clean a carbon ring out of the end of the chamber/beginning of the barrel.  Never heard the term till a couple years ago on this forum.  Never even knew to look for one to see if it needed cleaned out/removed.  Never shot a .22 in competition.  Just fun at the range and in the back yard.  All lead bullets though.

Just thought of something that may not apply at all to a .22 rim fire.  The guys that shoot cast lead (with gas checks usually) bullets in the .30 caliber rifles will usually advise working on the barrel enough to remove all the copper fouling before shooting lead bullets and not to jump back and forth between lead and jacketed bullets.  Along the idea of choosing a rifle for lead bullets an sticking to them in that rifle.  Can't say moving back and forth between lead and jackets bullets in a .22 might be an issue.

Sounds like we go many of the same things in cleaning a barrel.  I also switched from aluminum to brass rods years ago.  Have not locktited them togther though.  I do wipe off the rod every few patches with a clean patch.

I was changing oil/filters in four vehicles using Mobil 1.  I would bottle up the left overs and give them to my sons and nephew for gun lube.  Now I'm down to two vehicles using Mobil 1 and the "supply" of left over oil in the jugs is reduced, but not enough to run me out.

Can't see the pits in the grooves causing accuracy issues, but what do I know.  Not even sure such light pitting as your rifle barrel shows on the lands would cause and accuracy issue unless they were really bad.  I can see it would cause more cleaning efforts due to the residue having a place to accumulate out of the easy path of the brushes and patches.

Sometimes some build up is beneficial (old story here).  I bought a single shot raggedy looking Winchester .22 bolt action rifle from a store in town one time decades ago.  Took it home, shot it out in the back yard and it was a tack driver.  I was thrilled with a light, handy, single shot bolt action (my eyes were good in those days and squirrel hunting was a fall hobby.)  Took it in the house, gave it  very thorough cleaning and wipe down.  The next time I took it out back to show it off it was a different rifle.  Wouldn't group well for beans.  Tried different ammo.  Still no luck.  Took it back in the house and did a much closer look to the inside of the barrel and saw a really messed up spot about 2/3's of the from the chamber to the muzzle.  I figured I'd cleaned the crud out of and the space was giving the bullets a chance to move enough to mess up them up and ruin accuracy.  No way to replace the barrel.  I just put that $65 .22 in a gun case and haven't shot it since.

Good luck with your rifle.  A good shooting .22 can be a lot of fun.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline JimLob65

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2025, 11:50:00 AM »
My observations may not directly relate to our topic, but you may find them interesting and maybe useful.

In the past several months, from September to early December I went on a buying spree where I bought several very nice centerfire rifles, all brand new from manufacturers that most would consider high quality.  In that same time frame I also bought a bore scope, which has proven itself to be a mixed blessing ;).

For years I had always wanted a Browning BLR in 308.  I ran across one that was exactly what I wanted although it is chambered in 243, a cartridge I had really come to like shooting.  Beautiful walnut stock with a pistol grip, it couldn’t have been on display for more that a day.  I put it in lay-away and picked it up a couple of months later.  The rifle proved to be a very nice shooter although I found that I had to scope it as the old eyes just aren’t up to open sights anymore.

I then ordered a Tikka T3x D18 Lite Cabelas special in 308 Winchester when they were on sale at Cabelas for almost $400 off with rebate.  I have three other T3xs, all but one of which has a stainless barrels.  As per the rule with Tikkas this rifle proved an exceptional shooter and interestingly enough the barrel proved very easy to clean.  Very happy with this purchase.

While checking out the above mentioned BLR at one of my states premiere sporting goods mega store I was introduced to the beauty of Winchester Super Grade rifles, especially maple stocked versions.  I was never much of a fan of modern Winchesters a bit of research educated me on that front.  I found a 30.06 at a nearer gun shop for a good price, bought it, loved it and promptly turned around and bought one in 270WIN, a round I really like.  I would have bought the 270 first but the ‘06 has a stunning stock. 

Now, the pertinent part.  I told you that story to tell you this one.  The bore scope!!  I bought the bore scope out of curiosity because I have several milsurps that i was curious about and because I wanted to make sure I was doing a sufficient cleaning job.  I rarely shoot a ton of rounds through a rifle at a time so I wasn’t sure how much effort I should typically put into cleaning a barrel.  You know the received wisdom:  more barrels are ruined through improper cleaning than number of rounds sent down range.  Results of scoping the bores on these brand new rifles were eye opening to say the least.

First the BLR.  I was pretty disappointed in the quality of the bore in the BLR.  I found noticeable pitting in several spots of my new rifle.  It wasn’t terrible, but was disappointing.  I also discovered that I needed to work on copper fouling on this bore.  Interesting that the fouling got worse further towards the muzzle.

Both Winchesters demonstrated what I would consider an interior that appeared kind of on the rougher side.  I noticed that it took more of an effort to get clean than I would have expected.  There was also quite a bit of jacket fouling in both barrels, again getting worse as it neared the muzzle.  Mind you I hadn’t put a bunch of rounds through these barrels, less than a box in the 270, slightly more than a box maybe in the ‘06.   I put quite a bit of elbow grease into these barrels to get them what I consider ‘clean’.  BTW…. Both shoot very well.

Last is the Tikka.  My understanding is that Tikka states no break-in is required for their barrels and I see why.  All my Tikkas have been very easy to clean.  Interior finish is very smooth and demonstrated much less jacket fouling than the others.  IMHO the Tikka barrels are the best finished I have run across.  Tikka makes an exceptional rifle in my opinion.

All this demonstrates, I hope, the difference in barrels between different manufacturers, even well thought of ones.  The Winchester barrels are manufactured by FN in South Carolina IIRC, and are very highly thought of in my research.  Unfortunately I don’t have the capability do do a break-in procedure on a new rifle so maybe the results may have been different had I been able to do so, although I never really thought it was needed.  Even so, that wouldn’t have had any effect on the BLR barrel which came lightly pitted out of the box.  All this also tends to reinforce the notion that using a bore scope can be a mixed blessing, and that you really have to shoot the thing to get real world results.  BTW for kicks I scoped my Mk4 #2 Lee Enfield that I have had for 30 years which always shot pretty well.  OMG!!  Craters on the moon!!

Sorry to be so long winded.  I hope it was worth the read.

Offline Fasteddie01

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Stainless Steel 455 Bore Pitting ?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2025, 03:50:16 PM »
Guys - Thanks for the replies here.
As for answering some issues brought up - The Brass rod I keep in my shop is a Loctiti-ed 3-piece, I also have one 'in pieces' that I keep in my range bag for On-the-spot cleaning if needed, it helps 22LR since it's so dirty - even the 'Good stuff'.  I did the loctite after my first one snapped at a joint due to a 'stuck-tight patch'.
As for Copper fouling, you're right, it's not an issue with 22LR since the Cu is just a 'wash' of electroplating - Not a real jacket.  On my heavier rifles I do use a Cu-solvent because I don't subscribe to the "Copper Equilibrium Theory" since at some point I'd think it would get to be too much so I don't let it build up at all.  From what I've read "Competition shooters" mostly Don't leave any either.  Might be OK for 'hunting rifles' that only need 2-3 MOA accuracy, but I only accept that level for my SKSs.
I'm not too concerned about the 'pits' affecting accuracy, but I don't want them to continue to 'grow'.  Like Jim said "Craters on the moon!!" - My first SKSs ('51 Tulas) were there (pic #1 below).  The only other SS barrel I have is in my 1960-Rem-722 with a repl barrel ( and 'Drop-mag' ) and it only has 195 rounds thru it so far (ca 4-years). (pics #2-3 below).  My concern is having to 'scrub' the fouling to keep the bore clean, the SKSs were a pain with Cu and Carbon both building in a 'Lunar crater'.
In 'hunting' 22s the buildup of fouling might be beneficial in really worn barrels, keeping the 'speed and spin' up to good levels but my 22s aren't at that point yet.  For accuracy it seems that 'Clean tubes' give better shots as most target competitors clean every 50-100-ish rounds even in the middle of a Comp if time allows. 
As for a bore-scope, I've had one for over 5-years since I tried to improve my accuracy beyond 20-30 yds.  My'worst' 22 barrel - Sav B22 FV - started looking rough with 'button-chatter' but has 'smoothed out' a lot.  More importantly, as Jim said, is checking cleaning results.  My .223, 308, and x39 all collect more Cu than I'd like so I keep on top of them.  The 22s need to be squeaky-clean to get the best Consistent performance IMO so I give the B-scope a real workout after Range Days.  I have to drive 20-30 miles so I take 4-5 rifles each trip, and I'm retired so depending on weather I may go 4-8 times a month in the Summer.
A couple years ago I got a Ruger Ranch in 7.62 x 39 and the bore had 3x Bad Spots where it looked like the Button got tuck in the bore and messed it up. (pic 4)  The regional (Canada) rep wanted me to send it in at my expense so I chose to go shooting and it turned out OK anyways.  ca MOA with Chinese M-S and better with 'real ammo'.
Gonna stop here, tired of myself.  Hope you all get some good info and I'll be back with more later.
Ed
PS - These images are too large for my screen so if you have this prob, Right-clik and 'Open image in new tab'.

SKS '51 Tula


Rem 722 in .308 - Re-built


Rem-722 bore


Ruger Ranch - One of 3-bad spots


[Mods reduced image widths]
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 08:13:41 AM by Wobbly »