7.62x39

[briang2ad]

https://youtu.be/jsdfsZk7HuI

Seems like a fan.

Thoughts?  Is this a dead gun particularly in x39?  Support?

Thanks.

[MeatAxe]

https://youtu.be/jsdfsZk7HuI

Seems like a fan.

Thoughts?  Is this a dead gun particularly in x39?  Support?

Thanks.

I like 7.62x39 as a hunting and SD round much more than 5.56. It just has much more punch and (used to be) dirt cheap to buy.

Other than the dearth of spare parts from CZ USA, I like my 11” Bren 2Ms pistol with a brace a lot. Very light and handy and reasonably accurate. Would have preferred the military Bren 2S model, but that ship sailed long ago.

I haven’t had the issues some have with being overgassed and jamming (knock on wood), but both HBI and KNS now sell replacement gas valves that apparently solve that problem.

Dan Haga is another good source of aftermarket parts and accessories. Unfortunately, the lack of basic spare parts from CZ has been a big negative to me and has kept me from using it as much as I’d like, which is a shame because it would be a great truck or back pack gun.

You might look at the Robinson Arms XCR, which, though heavier than a Bren 2, is a much more versatile and accurate gun that you can actually get parts for readily.Also, with the XCR you can EASILY change barrels and multiple calibers, something you cannot do with the Bren because those parts don’t exist. Hate to crap on the Bren, but CZ really has dropped the ball on supporting that platform (and every other).

[Abe]

I own several CZ pistols and .22 rifles.  I sold my 805; now I own 3 of the Robinson XCRs, two of which have both 7.62x39 and 5.56 barrels.  The third is in 7.62x51.  Started out wanting a BREN. Not anymore.  I am very happy w my XCRs.

[MeatAxe]

I own several CZ pistols and .22 rifles.  I sold my 805; now I own 3 of the Robinson XCRs, two of which have both 7.62x39 and 5.56 barrels.  The third is in 7.62x51.  Started out wanting a BREN. Not anymore.  I am very happy w my XCRs.

Yeah, mine is in 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel!

Another great thing about the XCR is that the gas system is adjustable to @ 8 gas settings, whereas the Bren only comes from the factory with 2. More is better!

[MeatAxe]

This topic is about the Bren 2 chambered in 7.62x39. Despite the title, it doesn’t have anything to do with 7.62x39 ammunition or reloading, etc.


[Mods say: No, sorry. This discussion is about the caliber.]

[Wobbly]

The 40S&W died a very quick death right after the FBI dumped it. Similarly, 7.62x39 will die very quickly if Ukraine and NATO have anything to say about it.

Russia is on its last legs economically. NATO sanctions and the war in Urkaine are quickly weakening Russia to the level of a 3rd World country. The Rubble is already worth far less than 1 cent. The loss of Syria as a supply depot for African and Middle Eastern revolutions is over. The world already sees that their big military equipment is nothing but junk and 30 years behind the West. And they've already blown through the huge stockpiles of small arms and ammo the USSR left the Russian Federation. Stalwart supporters/ allies, like Cuba and North Korea, are teetering on collapse themselves without the no-longer-possible injections of Russian cash.

Ukraine is quickly taking apart all the Russian missile and drone factories. After that will be the small arms and ammunition factories. Ten years from now they'll need all that remaining production to support their (soon to be) 23rd ranked military.

Although pretty good, in actuality US shooters liked Russian calibers only because it was being dumped on the US market for pennies. But have you seen anyone shooting 9mm Makerov lately ? I thought not. When cheap supplies of "9 Mak" ran out about 1998, people didn't even want the guns.

And that fate is about to befall the 7.62x39 cartridge. The cartridge will grow more expensive as cheap foreign sources dry up. It will shortly become just as expensive as 308 and when that happens people will hang it up because... at least you can get cheap 308 brass for reloading. The vast majority of 7.62x39 is Berdan-primed and steel cased, both of which are huge road blocks to reloading.

Good-bye 7.62x39 !

[double-d]

Well said sir Wobbly ^ . 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Same thing with 7.62X25. Early nineties they started importing the guns and tons of surplus ammo onto the US market. I bought a pair of the VZ52 (often called the CZ52) for under $120 each with a surplus holster and a box of chicom ammo. They were fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate if you took the time to work with them. You could buy surplus ammo in sealed tins holding like 1220 rnds for $89 but eventually that dried up and paying north of $25 per box of 50 from Winchester or S&B was a no go for me. I ditched those guns and never looked back.

[MeatAxe]

The 40S&W died a very quick death right after the FBI dumped it. Similarly, 7.62x39 will die very quickly if Ukraine and NATO have anything to say about it.

Russia is on its last legs economically. NATO sanctions and the war in Urkaine are quickly weakening Russia to the level of a 3rd World country. The Rubble is already worth far less than 1 cent. The loss of Syria as a supply depot for African and Middle Eastern revolutions is over. The world already sees that their big military equipment is nothing but junk and 30 years behind the West. And they've already blown through the huge stockpiles of small arms and ammo the USSR left the Russian Federation. Stalwart supporters/ allies, like Cuba and North Korea, are teetering on collapse themselves without the no-longer-possible injections of Russian cash.

Ukraine is quickly taking apart all the Russian missile and drone factories. After that will be the small arms and ammunition factories. Ten years from now they'll need all that remaining production to support their (soon to be) 23rd ranked military.

Although pretty good, in actuality US shooters liked Russian calibers only because it was being dumped on the US market for pennies. But have you seen anyone shooting 9mm Makerov lately ? I thought not. When cheap supplies of "9 Mak" ran out about 1998, people didn't even want the guns.

And that fate is about to befall the 7.62x39 cartridge. The cartridge will grow more expensive as cheap foreign sources dry up. It will shortly become just as expensive as 308 and when that happens people will hang it up because... at least you can get cheap 308 brass for reloading. The vast majority of 7.62x39 is Berdan-primed and steel cased, both of which are huge road blocks to reloading.

Good-bye 7.62x39 !

With the AK47 / AKM series of rifles being the most successful military small arms in history, with upwards of 100 million units in circulation worldwide, not to mention the SKS and others, I don’t think 7.62x39 is going away for a long, long time. As more former Com Bloc manufacturers start picking up the slack from the Russia ammo ban, prices are coming down, especially with Trump in office.

The US has a pretty robust 7.62x39 mfg. industry: PSA AAC steel case fmj is going for 45 cents per round and their Sabre Black Tip (Hornady SST bullet) is only 57 cents per round. Prices are coming down, they only skyrocketed because of panic buying from the Xiden regime Russia ban.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/7-62x39mm-ammo.html

If 7.62x39 were dying, then prices for AKs (i.e.: former Com Bloc) wouldn’t be going through the roof.

https://www.k-var.com/ak-rifles

[Wobbly]

With the AK47 / AKM series of rifles being the most successful military small arms in history, with upwards of 100 million units in circulation worldwide, not to mention the SKS and others, I don’t think 7.62x39 is going away for a long, long time.

That's your opinion vs. my opinion.

What you are saying is true, but only because the US Government or Colt were never shipping M4 rifles by the boat load to every 3rd world revolutionary-wannabe to destabilize the world order. Russia and China (the major producers) are both nearly on life support. Their teens and college grads are leaving by the thousands. Their manufacturing sectors have both been decimated, and they are both to the point that they need to be more focused on feeding their remaining populations.

Sure they previously made a lot of rifles and ammo, but that probably won't be the case in the future. So to say it won't go away in the future based on historical data is (in my view) laughable. As your broker will be glad to tell you.... "past performance is no indicator of future results".

You're sounding a bit like the guys that said, "There will always be a need for battleships !"

Our dads hung flintlocks from the American Revolution above the mantle. Our sons and grandsons will be hanging AK's in their place.

[MeatAxe]

That's your opinion vs. my opinion.

What you are saying is true, but only because the US Government or Colt were never shipping M4 rifles by the boat load to every 3rd world revolutionary-wannabe to destabilize the world order. Russia and China (the major producers) are both nearly on life support. Their teens and college grads are leaving by the thousands. Their manufacturing sectors have both been decimated, and they are both to the point that they need to be more focused on feeding their remaining populations.

Sure they previously made a lot of rifles and ammo, but that probably won't be the case in the future. So to say it won't go away in the future based on historical data is (in my view) laughable. As your broker will be glad to tell you.... "past performance is no indicator of future results".

You're sounding a bit like the guys that said, "There will always be a need for battleships !"

Our dads hung flintlocks from the American Revolution above the mantle. Our sons and grandsons will be hanging AK's in their place.

Regardless of the Cold War politics, AKs and many other 7.62x39 weapons are here in the US in a big way and are very popular. They work well, are extremely reliable, lethal, barrier blind, etc.

If all these former East Bloc countries are hurting, it only makes sense for them to use their existing Cold War military infrastructure to churn out high demand 7.62x39 ammo to the huge, ammo-hungry US civilian market for export and hard currency. That’s why you’re seeing so much x39 ammo flowing into the US from former East Bloc countries rushing to fill the gap left by the Russia ban. Even US companies like PSA are getting into the act, offering inexpensive, high-quality x39 ammo. Prices are bound to drop to affordable levels.

[briang2ad]

Interesting thread here - didn't really mean to start it though.

The 7.62x39 caliber doesn't need Ukraine's adaption to avoid death.  Its the most ubiquitous battle carbine cartridge in the world, regardless how one considers the AK.  It surely beats the 5.56 in what is 'the rest of the world.'

Will it be as cheap relative to the 5.56 in the long run?  While it probably WON'T - there may be some hope, and while Russia may indeed supply the x39 to all those other countries, there should remain quite available from some of these foreign and US vendors.

Then there is a real possibility of normalized relations with Russia.

[jwc007]

Then there is a real possibility of normalized relations with Russia.

One can only hope so!!!  The madness of the current USA regime ( OBiden) has brought us to the brink of WWIII.

I really like the 7.62x39mm Cartridge and much prefer it to the 5.56mm NATO for serious social concerns.
I have also hunted with it with great success. White Tail Deer within 100 yards.
Have three Rifles so chambered. A Chinese SKS, Customized Egyptian AKM, and a nicely customized Vz2008/Vz58.
Not worried about keeping them fed. I did recently buy some bulk 7.62x39mm, just to have more stock on hand.

Given current and future logistical conditions, stocking up on ANY ammunition is a good idea.

[Wobbly]

If all these former East Bloc countries are hurting, it only makes sense for them to use their existing Cold War military infrastructure to churn out high demand 7.62x39 ammo to the huge, ammo-hungry US civilian market for export and hard currency.

IMHO, here's the hole in that argument...

All the "former East Bloc countries" have already become NATO members or they are applying for NATO membership as fast as they can (up to and including Ukraine). They lived under Russia during the USSR and they did not like what they endured. Not one of them is joining the Russian Federation voluntarily.

Georgia citizens are in the streets every night protesting Russian influence and meddling in their country's affairs. As soon as Alexander Lukashenko dies (or loses power) Belarus will break free, which will be closely followed by Kaliningrad. China is threatening to swallow up far eastern provinces that were once part of Mongolia and ancient China. Even Chechnya is teetering and changes day-to-day depending on the dicey health of Mr. Kadyrov.

Why wouldn't these eastern bloc armories make the NATO standard 223 ammo which they now (or soon will) need and forget about the ammo that reminds them of the "bad old days"? IOW, why build entirely separate production facilities just to export 7.62x39, when their armies will live on NATO std ammo. After all, if your argument is "export sales", then 223 has just as large of an audience (or probably larger) in the USA than 7.62x39.

Nope. IMHO, they will concentrate on 1 single caliber, and that caliber will be whatever the NATO standard rifle round is.

Don't get me wrong. I shoot 7.62x39 and don't want to see prices go higher either. But the cards for this game have already been dealt and they do not favor Russia and the former Soviet republics, or China.

Again, this is simply my opinion.