Glockguy's review on 75B-40

[Glockguy-23]

Well, I said I was gonna give a thorough report on the 75B-.40 as soon as I could, but, before I start, Let me give a little background.  As a defensive firearms instructor, I have certain expectations on any firearm that may be used in a defensive situation.  Therefore, I did a kind of comparison, using the handgun I trust, everyday to protect my own life.  The Glock 23.  Now, now, now, before you start complaining, I said this was going to be unbiased, and it is...  

For targets, I used the IALEFI-QP.  The same target used when training students.  The "bottle" area represents the FBI-Q target, and the gray area represents the target most commonly used by law enforcement agencies, in their qualifications.

Now for the firing.  Before running the two guns, side by side, I put about 300 rounds through the CZ, just to make sure it was functioning, ok.  I used reloads, S&B and Fiocchi.  In all types of ammo, I experienced failures to extract/feed.  Basically, the ammo was just not completely cycling the slide.  When I fill the mags with full power, Golden Sabers, the gun ran, without a hitch.

Next, I ran a few through it, just to see where the sights were set.  They were fine, so I started the comparative shooting.  My preferred shooting stance has always been a modified Weaver (which can also be used as an interview stance, a fighting stance, etc.).  Because of this, all shooting was done from this position.  No rests of any kind.  In the case of the CZ, all shots were SA.

The targets below reflect the results of shooting 5 rounds from each gun at 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards.  The inner circle is 8". The outer is 10".  As you can see, both guns preformed well under this scenario.  Though the Glock would have actually scored higher, because of the two flyers from the CZ, the CZ held a tighter group.  I attribute the flyers to the very rough SA trigger on the CZ (That can be fixed).  On the other hand, the Glock has Meprolight nights, as opposed to the CZ's standard sights.  The smaller dots and thinner sights actually allow for more precision shooting with the CZ.  This might also be part of the reason that it holds such a tight pattern.

The third target was shot, off hand, in the same Weaver stance, from 100 yds.  Note that 9 of the 10 shots are within the standard LE target, with only one shot outside.  Three of the shots are actually in the bottle.  Excellent accuracy.  I didn't shoot the Glock from that range, but have in the past and with similar results...

Next was a practical test.  I purposely used the first stage of the Air Marshal Quals, to get a feeling for how the CZ would handle from the holster.  The stage is simple.  Draw from the holster and fire one shot, at 7 yds.  Shot must hit the target to qualify the time.  Shooting the CZ C&L, I was able to get into the 1.00's and 1.10's, with the best time being 1.03 seconds.  With the Glock, I was about .1 sec. faster, across the board.  Best time was .94 sec.  Two things, here.  I've put over 100k rounds through various Glocks in the past coupla' years and I wasn't having to drop the a safety, as I was with the CZ.  Personally I don't think the safety was slowing me down, but a bit more practice will tell.

Pluses for the CZ:
Very good accuracy.
Well balanced and good fit.
Cool factor through the roof...  

Drawbacks:
Only functioned properly with the highest powered ammo.
The mags, if dropped, ingested dust like a vacuum cleaner, becoming non-functional.
Very rough trigger.

Basically, I think the CZ is a very fine gun.  In my experience, however, it is not perfect, out of the box.  A trigger job is a must!  Will need to be properly tuned (spring changes, etc) to function with standard practice ammo.  Oh yeah, gonna' need some locktight on the grip screws to keep them from falling off...    Had to get out the screwdriver every 100 or so rounds and tighten them down...

So there you have it!  As compared to the Glock, the CZ-75B .40 did very well.  Until the reliability issue is solved, I would not trust it with my life, but I do believe this issue can be worked out.  After all, gotta' get it ready for some IDPA stuff, right Chuck?

[Walt-Sherrill]

Your experience with teh 75B-40 matches mine withe the 75B, 40B and 85 Combat.  All of them needed some trigger work right out of the box.  The 40B needed the most, the 85 C needed the least.   But the guns point far more naturally for me than did my Glock 17.  

After about six months, my 40B (with a trigger job before I even shot it) is just now getting a good trigger.

My 85 Combat shoots right with the best guns I've shot, including a now-departed P-210-6, with the 210 getting a big edge beyond 20 yards.

(I had a very nice Glock 17, and love a friend's Glock 34; those are the only two Glocks that even talk to me... But I shoot my 85 Combat far better; it just fits my hand better.)

[Glockguy-23]

I know that the 75B40 is going to work out, just fine.  It points very well and fits my hand nicely.  I had a similar problem with the Glock 17/22, pointing high.  Moving to the 23 and its shorter grip put the muzzle right back down where it should be.  Apparantly, the backstrap swell is up, just high enough to put it in the hollow of the palm, instead of directly on the heel.

Any suggestions on the target ammo problem?  Recoil spring weight?

[Walt-Sherrill]

I can't help you with ammo recommendations.  The only things I've shot in my CZ-40B (which is a subtly different gun) are CCI Blazer and S&B 180 gr.  Both shot straight and functioned properly.  

(The trigger on the CZ-40B was a little rough, too, but also heavy as hell...  Its still heavier than I'd like, but from C&L breaks very cleanly, and its smoothness makes it tolerable.)

[Glockguy-23]

The ammo situation, I can handle.  I was fishing for recommendations on making the gun function on practice level (lighter loaded) ammo.  Maybe a lighter recoil spring?  I'm not up to date on what fixes are used for this situation...

[ut83]

Very nice review.  Very nice.  Im glad you like the guns.  The trigger on my compact was pretty sweet out of the box and compares with the other 75 series guns I have played with.
My 83 has a little more creep than I like but cant complain too much...its about as it gets "outa the box".  
Your failures to e/f are strange....fiocchi seems to be pretty hot in the calibers I shoot.  I guess the gun you bought just wants the good stuff.  Welcome to the club......I sincerely enjoy reading your stuff.  Keep it up.
Shoot well

[SteveYC]

   There were 2 things I noticed about my PCR:

   1) The magazine lips weren't as smooth as I'd like
   2) The slide rails were rougher than I'd expected

   I think these caused some problems I had with hand cycling.

   If the idea of some light sanding doesn't bother you, then 600 grit sandpaper and 0000 steel wool are more than enough to smooth things out.
   Oddly, I think my PCR was originally undersprung, since the slide whacks into the frame a lot more obviously than on the full sized model I shot.

   I also noticed that the surface of the FP safety where the trip lever pushes it up is really rough, which probably adds to roughness in the trigger pull. I need to get a roll pin punch before I mess with it though.

   Steve

[dleong]

Glockguy,

I have a satin nickel 40 cal. 75B that was manufactured in 2001 (according to the stamp behind the ejection port). Of my three CZs, this pistol has the smoothest trigger pull and an incredibly crisp break--I did not deem a trigger job necessary (unlike the trigger on my 9mm 75B which, out of the box, felt ridiculously gritty).

You might recall that I wrote about the accuracy problems I was having with my 75B/40 a few weeks ago. Since then, after having discharged a few hundred rounds through the pistol, I have discovered the problem was *not* the pistol, but rather my inexperience with the recoil characteristics of the 75B/40. Installing a 22 lb Wolff recoil spring and modifying my stance and grip has all but eliminated that problem; I am now obtaining the same degree of accuracy on the 75B/40 as I am with my 75B/9 and 97B at similar distances.

Your failures to extract/feed are somewhat perplexing. Based on your description of the problem, it appears that, strangely enough, a *weaker* recoil spring would be the solution. I have been shooting a combination of Winchester 180 gr. FMJ factory ammo and reloads (155 gr. Rainier atop 6.2 grs. of Universal Clays for an OAL of 1.120") with absolutely zero problems on my 75B/40 thus far, with both the stock 13 lb factory and 22 lb Wolff recoil springs. Would a stronger magazine spring help with the feed problem?

Just out of curiosity, what is the year of manufacture of your 75B/40? Did it come with Mec-Gar mags?

DL

[cz40va]

Very good review. It was good to see that you are pleased with the CZ after so many Glocks. I hope you continue to enjoy it and keep us updated.

[Glockguy-23]

dleong,
There's an 00 behind the ejection port, so I assume 2000 manufacture.  Rails and feed lips (on factory and Mac Gar mags) are fairly smooth, at least to the point where I cannot believe they would cause a problem.  Seems that the action was cycling enough to pickup another round, but not enough to eject the fired case, causing a double.  The high powered stuff cured the problem.  I was under the impression that the CZ came with an 18 lb recoil spring.  Dropping the weight a coupla pounds would probably solve the problem, but I think I'm going to work with the reloads a little, first.

The definite click in the trigger, before stacking and releasing is in the lower end, as it does it with the slide removed.  I can see a slight movement of the parts around the sear, then they stop.  From that point on, the trigger feels pretty good.  Only a slight scratch...

[Oldnslow]

I bought a 75B .40 cal about a month ago and found it had the best trigger out of the box of any autoloader I've ever owned. However, I've tested several other 75B's, all .40s, and there seems to be a gritty feel to some of them that was not present with mine. Luck of the draw? I may tweak the trigger a little after everything is broken in properly, in a couple of thousand rounds or so.

Groups fired off-hand, without a rest, are always unreliable. At best, they are an indicator of potential after the flyers are thrown out. There are too many variable factors in off-hand shooting for accurate comparisons to be made between pistols. Shooting stance, hand grip, length of trigger finger, trigger pull, length of sight radius and sight design can all influence the results and differences are often undetected by the shooter. Bench rest shooting with lots of sandbags is better and a locked down test stand, if one is handy, is the best.

Another consideration when testing for accuracy is the ammunition. Different combinations of ammunition and pistols will yield different results. The same ammunition in two different pistols may produce widely different groups. Pistols usually shoot best with a specific round; different pistols do best with different rounds. Also, barrel length is an important factor.

The recoil problem is unusual. I've only got some 400+ rounds through mine so far, but it has fed everything with absolutely NO problems. (I may post a list of tested rounds, including chrono numbers, after I finish testing in a month or so.) You should ensure that you are not using a limp wrist technique before looking at anything else. If that is eliminated, then you should talk to CZ-USA. You may have some binding in the slide or barrel someplace and it just needs some polishing or finishing. It may also just need a bit of oil. I would not recommend a weaker recoil spring based on my experience, but it may be that yours is out of spec or is stronger than mine.

I've shot mine at three local fun shoots since I got it and the local range/store I shoot at has started stocking the CZs because of it. Out of a dozen shooters a couple of weeks ago there were two CZ clones in addition to mine. Local interest is taking off due to the performance of my CZ. I even had a Kimber user take a serious look.

[Glockguy-23]

Hey Old guy...   I can say that, 'cuz I ain't no spring checken, my-own-self...

I appreciate all the comments.  Let me address a few.  First, as a defensive handgun instructor, I believe strongly in avoiding conditional branching.  That is, using different techniques under different circumstances.  Too many techniques can cause trouble in a situation where your training is called for, in a hurry.  That's why I shoot everything from my normal stance, without a rest.  You're absolutely right, that it doesn't give a perfect picture of the pistols potential, but I'm only looking for combat accuracy, which, incidently, the CZ has in spades.

The feeding failures and subsequent successes with high power ammo, point to the recoil spring.  I made sure that I was not limp wristing.  I've got lots of experience in handgun shooting, and haven't limp wristed one in, oh hell, a billion years...   Anyway, your comment about the out of spec spring got me to thinking.  I did notice that the slide was "very" hard to rack.  The spring is a twisted wire that is then coiled.  Like I said, very heavy.  I may replace it with a Wolff spring, just to be sure.

I put 500 rounds through it this past weekend, and the previous owner had about 250 through it when I got it.  All surfaces are well machined and smooth.  I'll do some more looking and eventually get to the bottom of this.  Very happy with the pistol, overall...

[Unregistered(d)]

Very nice review indeed. I`ll be interested to see how well you do with the CZ after you`ve put a few thousand rounds through it. Shame about the reliablility and trigger issues though. From what I`ve seen reliability is usually a given with CZs but as we all know a bad one can sneak through now and then. A good friend of mine has a Glock 17 that jams at least once a range session with any ammo or mags so he uses his old S&W 659 for CCW/PD. I got lucky with my CZ-75B Mil. the trigger is really great but hey next time I may not be so lucky. Of course your may smooth out, my 10mm Witness`s trigger was really gritty and stagey (is that a word?) when I got it but after about 1000rds. it smoothed out and is now pretty good.   Marcus

[Glockguy-23]

Put another hundred through it this weekend.  Shot an 18" gong at over 125 yds.  I have no issue with the accuracy of the gun.  The trigger, after it snaps into that first stage, is pretty good.  It's that bleeped FTE that's killing me.  Every second or third round fails to extract.  It has even started doing it with the full power stuff.  Tried a recoil spring from a 9mm, and same thing.  I'm going to check the extractor surface and spring, next.  If that doesn't do it, back it goes, to CZ.  Wish I could get it on line, because I enjoy shooting the gun.

BTW, tell your buddy that any armorer should be able to fix his Glock on the spot.

[ut83]

Glockguy,
There were some problems with the extactors on some guns...call Mike at CZUSA.  He may send you a new assembly...would be worth a try.  Shoot well