75 BD and IDPA

[davidh0911]

Does anyone know if using the 75 BD decocker puts you in the SSP or ESP classification for IDPA matches.  I am brand new to ISPA and was in my first match this weekend.  They put me in the SSP class but nobody was really sure about the decocker.  I ended up using my thumb to manually decock the hammer all the way down, but I would like to compete with it the same way I carry it (using the decocker).  Does anyone know how IDPA treats this?

[Walt-Sherrill]

The Enhanced Service Pistol division is for non-.45s with custom modifications and/or the ability to start from cocked and locked (IF you start from cocked and locked).  

The BD is a Stock Service Pistol in its most fundamental form.

(Its no different than a SIG 228, or any S&W 4XXX or 5XXX series, in that respect.)

[davidh0911]

I wonder if I can get something from IDPA on that.  When I got set up at the first stage (my first stage ever) I used the decocker and the SO looked at it and asked if the hammer was all the way down.  I told him that the decocker lowers the hammer about halfway down, but not all the way.  He said that he was not sure if that was allowed in SSP so he made me manually lower the hammer all the way and I continued to do that throughout the day.

It doesn't make a huge difference to me whether I use the decocker or manually lower the hammer all the way down, I would just like to know for sure one way or the other.  My preference would be to compete using the decocker since that is the way it was meant to be carried.  I am afraid that individual clubs are going to have different rules on the issue.  

I would be surprised if I was the first one that this was an issue for.

[raro]

Quote:I wonder if I can get something from IDPA on that.

On one occasion, I had need of clarification on something pertaining to permissable modification to a firearm.  IDPA headquarters provided a prompt response.  I would send an email to info@idpa.com asking for clarification.  If you receive a response that agrees that you should use the decocker, then you can show it to the RO(s).  It's likely they have answered this question before.  Shoot safe, and have fun!

Ralph

[Walt-Sherrill]

The Safety Officer in question was showing his ignorance.  

If the hammer isn't cocked, that's all he should be concerned with, at the start of a course of fire.  (Walt Rausch has even said that we can start from half-cock in SSP; info@idpa.com has given contradictory answers on that point.)

At the end of the course of fire, you shouldn't decock, but rather, show that the gun is empty and drop the hammer by pulling the trigger.

(Decockers don't decock all the way on several guns.  I think that on S&W guns, for example, the guns have a rebound position.  Once decocked, that hammer is not all the way down either.)

As noted, email info@idpa.com for the definitive (over the short-term) answer.  To half-cock is the way the gun is designed to function; I'm pretty sure that IDPA will not second-guess CZ (or other gun makers) on that count.

[davidh0911]

I sent them an email last night but have not heard back yet.  I think that they should be able to answer pretty easily.

[Texeast]

IDPA RULE BOOK EFFECTIVE 5/2/01
ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL DIV.
"Handguns permitted for ESPD must be Single Action or selective SA/DA and be of 9mm (9X19), (9X19),(9X23), .38 Super, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .41AE, 1o MM Norma, .400 Cor-Bon.".

There is more but in short. "NON-INCLUSIVE list of pistols permitted: (These are just examples of pistols that meet ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION requirements and is NOT meant to be a definitive list of approved pistols.)"
 CZ-75.

Competition Rule #14 - Pistols must start from mechanical condition of readiness appropriate to their design. In general, single-action autos will start cocked and locked (ESP & CDP), double-action autos (SSP) will start hammer-down and locked or unlocked.  However, unusual designs may be started in other ways.  Selective double-action autos may start cocked and locked or hammer down."  There is more. But, it applies to the counter used.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Selective single-action/double-action, as defined in this section of the rule book refers to a DA gun that is being started from the cocked and locked mode -- while shooting in the ESP division.  

The decocker versions of the gun are NOT starting cocked and locked, neither are they starting cocked.  The hammer is not cocked until the trigger is fully pulled; using the half-cock position simply shortens the pull; it has not cocked the weapon in any way.  

The shooter who had the original question was trying to compete in the Stock Service Pistol division, but an over-zealous safety officer questioned his right to do so.

The Decocker versions of the guns SHOULD be able to start from normal decocked mode, while shooting in Stock Service Pistol.  Your citation of rule #14 supports that interpretation.

As noted in another message, I've sent a second message to INFO@IDPA.COM asking for a clarification, as an official inquiry from our IDPA club.