CZ Champion help (OR the CZ Open Class thread)

[phrozenlikwid]

Who's got one?  Who's seen one?  Who even knows anything about them?

Shooting season is over, and I got a chance to shoot a open gun and it was a tremendous amount of fun.  I've had great luck with my CZ's so far, so I was interested in keeping with the same platform.  Lately, I've been kept up at night about using a CZ Champion to sling 9mm Major rounds, and tearing up USPSA Open, and using regular 9mm rounds for Open Steel.

Trying to find someone with any knowledge about them however, is daunting.  There are two people over at Benos who own/owned the same Champion, which was outfitted to shoot Major.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get the current owner of the pistol to shed some light on the project.

So far, here's what I have been scheming -

- CZ Champion in 9mm, sent off to Angus/Matt/Miossi/etc for complete action job with all the trimmings.  Angus magwell, grips, etc
- Venry at Radical Precision (Benos), says he can make me up a mount for either a Cmore/Doctor, as well as a better comp.  Also considered melting a Doctor into the slide.
- Would run a Modified (Eerw style) 25 rd mag for a big stick, and modified SP01 mags (again, a la Eerw) for 140mm's.  Capacity might be a little off, but not enough to matter to me (I suck, and an extra round or two won't make a difference).

This would be my first gun with a dot and comp (until my Kadet project gets completed, anyways ), and the first time dealing with 9mm Major.  Venry claims the gun he built has no problems running the major rounds, so I assume it's just load the case with powder, stuff in a bullet, and go. 

Those of you who play the Open game, or know some about CZ's...... This sounds feasable?  Am I missing anything, or setting myself up for potential "gotchas"?  Would I be better off just getting a *gasp* Tanfo?

Any advice, is always certainly appreciated.

[Stuart]

sounds reasonable...only Champions I have seen have been in .40SW...have seen a couple of open gun CZs done on the web..l

I saw another mount made by Jojo of JVDynamics that would be a really mount for a doctor or JP.. it it made for STI..but should be easily adaptable to the CZ dustcover.

not sure how to do the comp...couple of ways..easiest..is to get longer barrel thread comp and fit...unable to seperate from the slide but can be dealt with..otherway..remove bushing..mill off front of slide to allow barrel to come out front like a 1911..and comp..similar to the P9 I ran years ago...for heavy work like that..i would go with George at EGW..George was one of the shops that built up P9s back in the day..and he knows his stuff..

9mm major is doable..but it is hard on the guns..when you have to load short..9 major in STIs are a lot easier when you can load out to 1.250 to get the case capacity..but it can be done.

if so..get some hardened slidestop pins from EGW..

good project..wish I had the funds to chase one down..

another way to do it..is run a TS in 9mm..and get someone to weld up some mags for your 170s..

[phrozenlikwid]

Eerw,

I was curious about the comp myself...  Venry said that he has one developed, and even has a gun set up as such.  A couple pictures would be worth a 1000 words, but no go so far.

The frame getting battered was a concern of mine too.  PF back when you were shooting a P9 was higher, wasn't it?  Did you ever have any problems with your gun?

I've still got my Tactical Sport (it's out getting refinished), and I've though about going that route.  A switch upper Limited/Open class TS woud be kinda neat, but would probably require two seperate uppers (5" 9mm, normal .40). 

I dunno.... It's just something I was pondering as an off-season project.  Been shooting a lot of rimfire stuff lately, so my kadet project has my focus at the moment.  Open class just looks like so much fun, and it sucks not being able to get in on it.

[Stuart]

yep..PF was the old 175...I pretty much ran 115 at about 1550fps..it was loud..used WW540 and Viht 3n37.
had no trouble at all..I never did break a slide stop..but had a couple of the EGW pins..

it would be a fun project..open is fun..and shooting a  dot really helps you when you go back to iron sights..and learning how the sight will track.

[earshot]

Hi,

I've got one since yesterday.  It has a fixed sight for now (fibre optic). I took it to the range this morning and fired about 150 rounds. One hickup but with ammo from a buddy.
I loaded 123 Fiochi with 4.5 and 4.7 VV N340, federal primer. I'm gonna stick with 4.6 gr. N340 for now since i have about 5000 of those bullets left   I also tried 124FMJ's and 115 HP's with N340. Unfortunately, today was not a good day for accuracy testing from 25 meters 9or i have to get used to a fibre optic front sight....this one's my first) but from 20m I had some groups that were good enough for it's purpose.

I don't think the gun is suitable for major 9mm loads unless you don't care about the longevity of the gun.

I changed out the standard rubber Hogue grip with those that I had left over from my first CZ75 (some 20 yrs ago).
Maybe I will put on a c-more sight but for sure I will need some 25 round magazines. 

[hartzpad]

My buddy is a 2011 guy but he picked up a used 9mm Champion a year ago and shot our last match with one.  He did pretty well but says he prefers a 1911.  Trigger is awesome, felt around 2-2.5 lbs and very crisp.  When I shot it with factory 9mm the muzzle didn't seem to move at all, it is cool.  It does feel quite a bit lighter than my SP-01.  I still think that a SP-01 with trigger mods and a Champion comp would make a better open gun.

I've handled Tactical Sports and don't like the larger frame and hate the textured nubs on the grip frame.

[FLL1911]

A friend shooter has a CZ Champion with a Docter sight installed on a rail built by RPD (Venry). He has been shooting 9 major (Open) for a while, and this past weekend he shot the Florida Section Match at Punta Gorda (near Naples) -the Champion worked just fine (I shot my STI Limited also built by Venry).

Other than the rail and Docter sight with rail and the thumb rest, the Champion is pretty original with only the must do things, like trigger job, magwell, grips, etc. Another nice thing Venry did was installing the rail on the right side (it does not obstruct the ejection port). With the slide racker installed on the right side it is possible to remove the slide without removing the slide stop or the rail from the gun. Venry also built a 170 mm mag by cutting a CZ sub-machine gun magazine (CZ 25?)

Yes, you can have a custom compensator for the Champion from Venry. I am in a middle of a CZ SP01 project, and I gave up finding a thread barrel and the Champion compensator, and I am turning to Venry for options he can build (I will stop by his shop later this week).

[phrozenlikwid]

FLL1911:

Awesome, thank you for the info.  So he's using a sidemount with the Doctor on top of the slide?  Interesting....  Any word on how 9mm major handles out of the Champion?  I assume he's had no problems with it?  Am I correct in assuming that he's using the factory Champion compensator? 

That gun sounds pretty neat.  Would love to see some pictures of it....  Your friend post anywhere?  Also, keep us updated on the SP01 open project.  Would love to see how that turns out.

Hatzpad:

Agreed about the chunkyness of the factory TS;  Mines been shaved down to remedy such a situation, and I think it feels great.  I actually prefer the grip of this gun over a 2011 grip.
My TS:

[Stuart]

FLL1911..
great info..really looking forward to details about your open SP01 project

[chupa357]

I am actually that friend:)

My Champion (the gun, not me), is Venry's old gun.

I did a trigger job on it, put wide safeties, magwell, SP01 rubber grips and some grip tape. The 3 port comp works great with the right load. I do not think it needs a more efficient comp.

I was using a frame mounted right sided only Docter sight. It was very easy to switch from limited to open with the Docter sight, since it is not much higher than the normal FO front sight.

What FLL1911 doesnt know is that I bought a C-more and mount tonight.

The Docter is great, but much harder to pick up. I tend to lose the dot, especially on strong hand weak hand. I am going to try the C-more for a little while.

The gun runs a steady diet of major 9mm without a hickup. The gun has never jammed on me, besides one mag problem which was my fault. I shoot 115's with it, did not like the 124's.

If you shoot steel, I suggest using major loads and not minor. The minor loads are quite "flippy" compared to major loads. Once you get used to major, everything else feels like artificial sweetener:)

Hope this helps.

[phrozenlikwid]

Awesome, Thanks for posting. 

So you didn't care for the frame mounted Doctor setup?  Interesting.  I need to shoot some different setups and see what I like.  I have very limited time behind Open guns, and haven't quite formulated an opinion about various things.  What kind of extended safties are you running?

Glad to hear about the gun holding up so far.  Keep us updated!

[chupa357]

Careful, Open is addictive

I am using the Shadow safeties, took a bit of fitting, but no problem now.

I am using a 1911 shockbuff and I see no frame battering at all. I did break one slide stop, but that is normal.

The gun shoots super flat with hot major ammo. The brass comes out straight, no bulges or pressure signs.

Let me know if you have more questions, happy to share.

[earshot]

Did another 300 rounds or so last night.
Two conclusions:
1) the fibre optic front sight doesn't do me any favors. I'm shooting on an indoor-range and the light is different depending on distance to the targets. This makes the brightness of the fibre optic change as well. I never had this many misses; a lot of rounds went over the target.   

2) the compensator couln't be screwed off. Stuck.Like a bastard. There are a  couple of threads (of the barrel) exposed to the inner part of the comp.I guess the threads get clogged up and make it very diffcult to unscrew the comp. I ended up using a vise to hold the comp and use a lot of force.  Whoever  designed this ?

I'm gonna try a few more loads tonight to see if the accuracy of the gun is OK and then it's gonna get c-Mored!

[Pakmc]

My wife pick one for me about five years ago. It's the 9mm one. I"ve had one shell blowup in the chamber(win. case) and it didn't hurt the gun. Mine got about a 2 lb. trigger. and every one I let shoot it, loves it.  But something is wrong, I've got a CZ75 "D" that is more accurate than my Champion(9mm), SP01(9mm) and my Tacialsport(.40cal.)  And I have CZ85 combat's and a CZp01.
   But, is CZ still making Champions??? ANybody??? it's not a trick question.
   IF I could find a champion in .40cal. I'd probility have to have it. ANd yes, my wife and I have most of the CZ's on the market.
  Pat

[phrozenlikwid]

Pat,

Strange to hear about the accuracy of your Champion; I figured given the attention to fitting they would shoot pretty well.  Is there any noticeable play in the barrel lock-up?  The HK style barrel O-ring looks intriguing to me, and might be a cheap/easy fix if there is some play.  Next time I see my machinest buddy I'm going to ask him about cutting one of my barrels for it, just to see.

As far as finding a .40 example.....  That's actually the ones I usually see for sale.  Haven't seen any come up online for a couple weeks, but there was like 3-4 of them for sale on the various auction sites, all .40's if I remember correctly.  I've heard people mention that they are a discontinued item (at least in the US), but haven't really took the time to confirm it.  I imagine a call to CZ-USA (or even Angus) would likely set the story straight.

Earshot:
I know what you mean about the FO...  I usually shoot outside, and personally like the FO front.  I shot some pins indoors a while back with my production gun (Wouldn't let me shoot the TS, claimed it was a "gamer gun"....) and the FO made it hard.  The inconsistency of the brightness of the sight messed with me quite a bit.  Probably won't be shooting there again, so I think I'll keep it on.  The FO is pretty easy to pick up outdoors.