Author Topic: Isn't it ironic?  (Read 14400 times)

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BobC

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2009, 03:32:26 PM »
Fascinating discussion, because the posts are written by people who obviously think for themselves, though disagree on some points.  This is heads and shoulders above some of the awful, shallow rants we see on certain blogs and other forums.

As Americans, we DO stand up for each other even when we disagree.  We'd better, anyway.

I was raised in a Democrat household but registered as a Republican once I established myself in adult life as a husband, father and salary-earner.

However, I disagree strongly with today's fascist-leaning Patriot-Act-supporting neo-conservatives who in my mind do not represent true conservatism as I think of it.

But I disagree even more strongly with someone who tells me AK47's need to be banned because no one "needs" one (I recently saw a blog post to this effect).  Since when do Americans go around telling each other they shouldn't own something because they don't "need" it?  Not to mention the possibility of a number of scenarios in which I could argue for a very real need for weapons like the AK47.  Understood, modern military weapon systems can easily vaporize anyone with even a huge cache of conventional weapons.  But what if my neighborhood erupts into anarchy because of, say, lack of food and gasoline?  The military isn't showing up, neither are the police, but heavily armed gun nuts are going from house to house, taking what they need and want.  For such a possible threat, I do want the right to at least have a temporary fighting chance for me and mine, rather than to be slaughtered by otherwise civilized people who recently became thugs.  I may go down in such a scenario, but I would prefer to go down fighting with something more than a steak knife.  You may say such a scenario is ridiculous, but I tell you that our government has been so reckless in managing our country's finances that we face the chance of a REAL economic meltdown any day now.  You will hear many assurances in the mainstream media that this is not the case, but in my estimation, it is indeed the case.  Who am I?   What do I know?  I won't go into that.

Anyway...I disagree vehemently with someone who says I have a "duty to retreat" inside my own home if a stranger invades it.

I disagree with a President who has stated strong opposition to concealed carry along with a voting record and a host of well documented spoken/written words that are in line with possible future restrictions and outright attempted confiscation.  This guy is so popular that he has more potential power to move us in this direction than any national leader in my lifetime (Eisenhower was the President when I was born).

I'm not scared, but I am concerned, and to the best of my ability to make rational judgments, I wholeheartedly believe I am justifiably concerned.

We can argue about what gun controls are reasonable, if any, but I say this: if you consider yourself a reasonable, mature, wise person and you have not armed yourself and armed yourself well, then apparently you are not what you thought OR you are of the persuasion that does not mind going down without a fight.

Whatever laws are in effect, and they vary widely from state to state, I know that any motivated person can accumulate a large array of firepower (legally and/or illegally), and that today our nation is doing so at an unprecedented rate.

For my part, I will err on the side of accumulating too many weapons and too much "uncoded" ammo.  In the process, I may become a hard-core gun nut.  The side benefit is that shooting guns is pretty fun.

Peace out.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 03:43:24 PM by BobC »

Mrs Armoredman

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2009, 04:14:41 PM »
"The Best Gun Salesman of the Year"
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_142480.asp

Oh the irony in the article linked above has to make you laugh (whether in joy or sadness is for you to decide). No wonder why his approval rating is so high even before he takes office.

IMHO, this guy is just plain scary. He is such a socialist in so many ways. When honest tax paying working class (white and blue collar) see these "Promises of Change" he's made during the primaries impact them in ways opposite to his eloquent speeches; they will kick themselves and wished they voted differently and not followed the mainstream media.

I can't wait until American's open their eyes and get back to not expecting somebody to always be there for handout's. To make things happen on their own and take care of themselves. Heck, my injury would grant me enough federal, state, and local monies/benefits that I wouldn't have to work, but I do. Because I was raised to be independent and not take things for granted.

But hey, I'm just an independent thinker w/ common sense. No group affiliations except this one. And the Marines ('86-'94).

Have you thanked a Marine, Soldier, or Sailor today for your freedom?



 First of all Thank you for your service to our beloved country. I do thank a WWII vet every day I think about him. I am talking about my Dad. He served on WWII in the US Navy. PLus I say a prayer for all thr troops serving over seas.

 You can't count on anyone to keep thier promises. Once in office they sing another tune. It never fails.

Offline Stones

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 08:12:13 PM »
However, the point was, there is way more important issues to worry about in this country (ECONOMY???). When Mr. Obama is taking the time to actually think about legislation that would affect LEGAL gun owners when he first gets into office should raise some eyebrows.

Mike Arnold
3

First off, thank you all that acknowledge my service to this great country. I fought for her and would continue to do so if needed (foreign or domestic). I will also stick by those in need of my help, no matter what creed, color, religion, etc. Whether it those big "bad ass" dudes to grandma's. It's just the right thing to do.

Well, I didn't expect this post to set off this kind of a firestorm. Though I've enjoyed reading all of y'alls posts. And just to clarify my stance, I will support him to a point. As he is our President, and deserves the respect of the office.

But "StrictlyCZ", unfortunately for all of us, the President has collaborated a group of Anti-gun personnel into his cabinet. So while he's off issuing Executive Orders (w/o going thru the whole legislative/judicial process; moreover the public), he has is cronies in the cabinet think-tank to figure out how to achieve the "back burner" agendas he has a history on; seeing come to fruition. Which is where we come in. Remember the Clinton Gun Ban. Now he even has Brady w/ a list of "recommendations" he should consider (given only hours after his swearing in).

He's very sneaky. And as many have posted in here (and just about everywhere else in the world), he is a smart man. And he definitely knows what strings need pulling and how to get to them. Thus, I applaud his speech writer (as most politicians I've seen don't seem to be able to speak w/o a teleprompter or cheat cards). That brings me to these "sweeping changes" being made to over the past few days.

I don't want universal health care. Nor do I want a stimulus package (especially to failing/failed businesses). It's called "Capitalism". If a company can't be run correctly to make a profit, why give them money to keep failing. Failure is a lesson needed to be learned to achieve success. Look at Edison. Did he give in on his first failure, no.

Sorry went off on a tangent there.

Call me crazy, but I don't want to have someone use my hard earned money to loaf around and collect welfare (or any other benefit that will allow them to sit on their arse) because they believe (as an example here) digging ditches or flipping burgers is below them or too hard that they may break a sweat. Speaking of which, that wonderful SCHIP bill passed yesterday for $11.2 million dollars for uninsured children didn't mention to the public that it's not just for poverty stricken families, but for those making up to $65k. Also, that they plan to finance it from raised taxes on cigarettes! So in essence, the gov't is promoting the sale of cigarettes so they can collect the tax money to pay for the new SCHIP. Wait a minute, I thought the gov't also wants you to quit smoking since its unhealthy. HUH!!!!!!!!!!!  ??? Only the gov't could think that one up.

Y'all have a good weekend. I'm going to be thinking about playing w/ my new CZ P-01 when it comes in a couple of weeks. ;D
"If the government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is big enough to take away everything you have." - Gerald R. Ford

We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem! - Chesty Puller, USMC

-CZ P-01, SP-01 Shadow (among others)

Offline chiuszeto

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2009, 07:10:40 PM »
drscooter,

"they also worry that thier children may be killed or injured not only by criminal activity but by unsecured weapons"

Just curious, what is your position with this fellow and his actions (or lack of them) as a parent?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,444180,00.html

BTW, no such thing as an "ex-Marine," just former ones.

"we repeatedly see the biggest baddest mofo on the block, be they gang-bangers, motorcycle gang tough guys, ex-marines or just the meanest man you ever met, crying, pissing in their pants and begging for their momma's, God or even some liberal Jew or for that matter (and more likely today) Muslim Doctor to save them"

Marines are human, there are good ones and there are bad ones, just like there are tough ones as well as ones who are not so tough...

Semper Fi...

BobC,

"I was raised in a Democrat household but registered as a Republican once I established myself in adult life as a husband, father and salary-earner.

However, I disagree strongly with today's fascist-leaning Patriot-Act-supporting neo-conservatives who in my mind do not represent true conservatism as I think of it."

Ditto to most of that, except for the fact that I feel our biggest problem is the lack of true patriotism with today's politicians (Republican or Democrat - this two party system is very broken for the challenges that our country is facing). Very rarely will they identify with being "Patriotic" or commit to doing what is right for the country.

Stones,

"And just to clarify my stance, I will support him to a point."

Patriotic and professional military personnel will support and serve the Constitution, we who are (or who now are) patriotic citizens need to also support the Constitution too as well as ensure our government governs by it in good faith.

Offline drscooter

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2009, 08:04:56 PM »
You know I read the story of what is a tragic accident with the young boy and the Uzi. It's easy to judge in hind sight, allowing a small boy to fire such a weapon could go wrong on many levels. I know if I was that young boy I would have been crying and begging to "let me shoot daddy" and clearly Africa has/had huge Armies of small children packing just such weapons, so it can be done. Now should it, under supervision, is it a crime now that a child is dead that is a very complex issue and while I'm sure there will be a legal position, to me it seems to have been a foolish choice that resulted in a tragic accident and all involved will suffer with or without any court involvement. Now to the future, we might want to have some age restriction as to just who can fire a fully automatic weapon, still there will always be accidents we can only try to keep them minimal. Must admit, as for me I always wanted an Uzi the wire cutter bottle opener stock is just too cool.
186,282.397 Miles per second, it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

FEG

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2009, 01:32:40 AM »
You know I read the story of what is a tragic accident with the young boy and the Uzi. It's easy to judge in hind sight, allowing a small boy to fire such a weapon could go wrong on many levels. I know if I was that young boy I would have been crying and begging to "let me shoot daddy" and clearly Africa has/had huge Armies of small children packing just such weapons, so it can be done. Now should it, under supervision, is it a crime now that a child is dead that is a very complex issue and while I'm sure there will be a legal position, to me it seems to have been a foolish choice that resulted in a tragic accident and all involved will suffer with or without any court involvement. Now to the future, we might want to have some age restriction as to just who can fire a fully automatic weapon, still there will always be accidents we can only try to keep them minimal. Must admit, as for me I always wanted an Uzi the wire cutter bottle opener stock is just too cool.


This may be the most stupid collection of sentences I have ever read.  (I can't call it a "paragraph," because the so-called author didn't deign to follow the rules of grammar or punctuation.) 

A law to prevent who can actually "fire" an automatic weapon that has gone through the proper permit process = the most unenforceable law ever recorded. 

Offline chiuszeto

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2009, 04:25:39 AM »
drscooter,

"tragic accident"

When terms like this is used to rationalize these types of incidents, doesn't this amount to confusing messages sent to the same folks that you described as:

"they also worry that thier children may be killed or injured not only by criminal activity but by unsecured weapons"

This situation is compounded by the fact that the parent is no stranger (or should not be) to the ER based on his profession and required professional educational background. The combination makes it very hard to rationalize any other position for his sake.

The NRA not taking a position on this subject also amounts to a similar confusing message.

Offline fatexfed2

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2009, 10:09:28 AM »
This fact is clear; your child is much more likely to be injured by criminal activity than an unsecured weapon.
This fact is clear; a criminal's worst fear is the possibility of an armed victim.
This fact is clear; criminal's have no respect for laws.
This fact is clear; almost all criminals involved in shootings have had an average of three prior arrests and convictions. (can't remember for sure the average number of arrests without convictions, but I think it is 17).

It would seem to be clear that new or more laws would accomplish nothing except tie up LEO's time and resources, and the time/money and efforts spent to attempt to register and control legal firearms would be much better spent on incarceration of offenders, or at the least, strict supervised drug programs and and WORK programs.


Mrs Armoredman

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2009, 12:24:14 PM »
This fact is clear; your child is much more likely to be injured by criminal activity than an unsecured weapon.
This fact is clear; a criminal's worst fear is the possibility of an armed victim.
This fact is clear; criminal's have no respect for laws.
This fact is clear; almost all criminals involved in shootings have had an average of three prior arrests and convictions. (can't remember for sure the average number of arrests without convictions, but I think it is 17).

It would seem to be clear that new or more laws would accomplish nothing except tie up LEO's time and resources, and the time/money and efforts spent to attempt to register and control legal firearms would be much better spent on incarceration of offenders, or at the least, strict supervised drug programs and and WORK programs.






  You got that right. Kids need to be supervised by a responsible adult and taught gun safety. The fact is also clear that thier are women and men out there who refuse to be victims. Like me for instance. Criminals will get guns illeagally,they do not care who they hurt,who home or business they break into,what damage they cause or what signs are on the outside of the building that say NO Weapons permited in this building. They will do anything to get what they want.

Offline chiuszeto

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2009, 02:34:23 PM »
Mrs Armoredman,

"Kids need to be supervised by a responsible adult and taught gun safety"

So what position do we take and advocate with the situation in Massachusetts? This is a prime example of someone directly threatening our collective 2nd Amendment Rights through his actions or lack of...

Offline drscooter

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2009, 07:20:20 PM »
First let me take this opportunity to apologise for my shocking poor use of grammar. Sentence structure was nonexistent and of course, no one could call that a paragraph. While I won't disagree, it does seem to be rather hateful as well as an exaggeration to state "This may be the most stupid collection of sentences I have ever read.  (I can't call it a "paragraph," because the so-called author didn't deign to follow the rules of grammar or punctuation.) " I do believe that the period belongs on the outside of the enclosure marks but I quibble.

I was only responding to a specific question;

Just curious, what is your position with this fellow and his actions (or lack of them) as a parent?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,444180,00.html

My poorly worded response;

You know I read the story of what is a tragic accident with the young boy and the Uzi. It's easy to judge in hind sight, allowing a small boy to fire such a weapon could go wrong on many levels. I know if I was that young boy I would have been crying and begging to "let me shoot daddy" and clearly Africa has/had huge Armies of small children packing just such weapons, so it can be done. Now should it, under supervision, is it a crime now that a child is dead that is a very complex issue and while I'm sure there will be a legal position, to me it seems to have been a foolish choice that resulted in a tragic accident and all involved will suffer with or without any court involvement. Now to the future, we might want to have some age restriction as to just who can fire a fully automatic weapon, still there will always be accidents we can only try to keep them minimal. Must admit, as for me I always wanted an Uzi the wire cutter bottle opener stock is just too cool.

If I was also in error to call this a tragic accident, I'm sorry for that too. Perhaps many consider this a wonderful affirmation in celebration of our 2A rights. I was not making any attempt to judge really, while we often set age or size limits for many activities to minimize danger, still accidents happen, tragic or not.

I understand that I often take a contrary opinion, still I'm a fellow gun-owner and like many issues do not believe this is black or white. I would like to see gun ownership remain legal with minimal restrictions, still I think gun registration makes sense. This area notes that it is for polite discussion, if it makes sense to you all to only represent one opinion, fine. However, if you have difficulty convincing someone who supports you 95% it's really going to be a hard sell to people who really disagree with guns in any way shape or form.

Again, my grasp of the proper use of grammar and spelling is atrocious and I hope I have improved to the extent that you can follow some of the content. The so-called author begs your indulgence.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 09:14:21 PM by drscooter »
186,282.397 Miles per second, it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

BobC

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2009, 07:33:05 PM »
This may be the most stupid collection of sentences I have ever read.  (I can't call it a "paragraph," because the so-called author didn't deign to follow the rules of grammar or punctuation.) 
That's pretty rough treatment of a forum member by an admin.

I think I'm spending my time in the wrong place.

Take care all.

Mrs Armoredman

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Re: Isn't it ironic?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2009, 11:50:52 PM »
OK everyone. Enough is enough. I will not tolerate this kind of treatment from my staff or other members. This thread is locked...