Isn't it ironic?

[Stones]

"The Best Gun Salesman of the Year"
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_142480.asp

Oh the irony in the article linked above has to make you laugh (whether in joy or sadness is for you to decide). No wonder why his approval rating is so high even before he takes office.

IMHO, this guy is just plain scary. He is such a socialist in so many ways. When honest tax paying working class (white and blue collar) see these "Promises of Change" he's made during the primaries impact them in ways opposite to his eloquent speeches; they will kick themselves and wished they voted differently and not followed the mainstream media.

I can't wait until American's open their eyes and get back to not expecting somebody to always be there for handout's. To make things happen on their own and take care of themselves. Heck, my injury would grant me enough federal, state, and local monies/benefits that I wouldn't have to work, but I do. Because I was raised to be independent and not take things for granted.

But hey, I'm just an independent thinker w/ common sense. No group affiliations except this one. And the Marines ('86-'94).

Have you thanked a Marine, Soldier, or Sailor today for your freedom?

[Craig M Arnold]

Stones;

First, thank you for your service to our country sir.

Second, I agree 100% with everything that you have said.

January 20, 2009 will be a very dark day for freedom loving Americans.

God helps us all.

[CM Rich]

I have a very bad feeling that somebody will attempt to take Obama's life that day. I may not like the man's policies or track record, but I wouldn't condone such an act. However, there are alot of crazies out there who would try such a stunt. Such an act would harm us in much worse ways than a full Obama presidency. It would put Biden in full control, whom I consider even scarier than Obama himself, and lend far more merit to his anti gun stance.

Hopefully, no one will be successful, because such an act would also be an attack on democracy itself. What we need to do now is regroup and debate him on a civilized playing field. While his senate record is decidedly anti 2A, he must now act as a servant not just to the people who voted him in, but to every American.

With the horrid economy and two wars going on at once, I doubt Obama and his henchmen will try to pass such an act as the Clinton Assault Ban within his first year. While we barely eeked by with the Heller decision, it is still a victory nonetheless, and we must use that momentum to our advantage.

I have a distinct feeling that his second term (because it is inevitable, I feel) will be the term where he tries to pass the more leftist policies and laws in his cache. Assuming he is successful in mending the economy to a positive degree during the first term, he will look like even more of a hero, and that's when he'll be in prime position to pass off such radical acts.

So be aware, and stay abreast of what's going on. Stay as active as you can, because your voice is your best weapon now, and when you choose not to use it, you'll lose it. We still have a fighting chance.

And as always, a thank you goes out to all of the brave men and women of our armed services. Keep fighting for us abroad, and we'll keep fighting here so you'll have a good home to come back to.

[drscooter]

   (me) Democrate, Obama supporter/voter, egg-head liberal, non-member of NRA, strong believer in gun registration/laws. Oh ya, the ironic part, legal gun owner/ethusists hold CCW permit and C&R. The issues are not black and white, your "gun" freedoms/rights are not a simple matter or whether one is Democrate or Republican. In America the gun is part of our culture and that has both good and bad aspects. While all during the election I heard by the end of January we would all be unarmed socialists should Obama defeat the forces of patriotism. There is a group (small group) who believes that gun ownership and gun registration need not be mutually exclusive. A gun might protect your freedom but only an idea can guarantee that freedom and of course, there are no guarantees 

January 20, 2009 A Great Day For America

[Craig M Arnold]

January 20, 2009 A Great Day For America

Only if you are a Socialist.

Hurry up 2012!

[drscooter]

Yep, Obama and that other Socialists buddy of his, Warren Buffet  

OMAHA, Neb. - Billionaire investor Warren Buffett says the U.S. is engaged in an "economic Pearl Harbor."

In an interview that aired Sunday on "Dateline NBC," the chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. said the nation's economic situation is not as bad at World War II or the Great Depression, but it's still pretty severe.

Buffett said Americans are in a cycle of fear, "which leads to people not wanting to spend and not wanting to make investments, and that leads to more fear. We'll break out of it. It takes time."

Buffett's interview centered on President-elect Barack Obama and the tough task he faces in fixing the U.S. economy.

"You couldn't have anybody better in charge," the Omaha resident said of Obama, who'll be sworn into office on Tuesday.

As one of Obama's economic advisers, Buffett said the president-elect listens to what his advisers say, but ultimately comes up with better ideas.

He predicted that Obama will be able to convey the severity of the economic situation to the American people and explain their part in alleviating it.

As to how long the crisis would continue, Buffett said he didn't know.

"It's never paid to bet against America," he said. "We come through things, but its not always a smooth ride."

Omaha-based Berkshire owns a diverse mix of more than 60 companies, including insurance, furniture, carpet, jewelry, restaurants and utility businesses. And it has major investments in such companies as Wells Fargo & Co. and Coca-Cola Co.

Warren Buffet SOCIALIST

[strictlycz]

What bad aspects does our gun culture present?  Remember LEGAL gun owners are statistically the most well behaved americans. So, what I don't understand why anyone who posesses a CCW/C&R and is supposedly so pro-gun would support a president who has been so anti-2A? Does the president believe that taking away gun show loopholes and trying to make the AWB permanent will help reduce crime??? What is the govt scared of? Remember it is about CONTROL!!!  I could give a rat's behind if you are Democrat/Republican, Green, Independent. We need fundamental change in this country. I'll tell you what, your president wants to make some change......Let's round up all the illegals (which by the way....supporting them costs taxpayers more annually than the war).........kick them out of the country, reform the welfare system (anyone that is ABLE WORKS!!!) and I'll bet the economy wouldn't look so bad then. We need to take our country back, not give handouts, and certainly not worry if someone has 15 rds. or 10 rds. in his magazine. Or if he has an evil black rifle.

Mike Arnold

[drscooter]

Again it's not a black and white or all or nothing issue. Working in an Emergency Room in a tough urban setting it's very possible I might travel with a CCW probably a good thing. While at work I just might have to treat a small child who some how ended up with a bullet in his/her body, probably a bad thing. There is no one single correct answer, clearly you can site how a gun "saved" lives it happens all the time. Still at times children or innocent people end up shot not because of crime but because a weapon was simply not secured and that freaks out soccer moms.  There is some truth to "an armed society, is a polite society" however, having also lived in Israel I can tell you it's not always so polite either.  I can assure you there are more gun homicides in the United States in any given year than Israel. Why in St.Louis alone we average 200 gun homicides a year. I'm not so sure the government is scared, why just today President Obama returned more freedoms to the American people with a few strokes of the pen then the NRA has achieved in the last decade, true the President has an unfair advantage also true most of those freedoms were just recently taken away by the past gun friendly President. However, contrary to everything that was said during the election, as the owner of several registered guns and documented holder of a CCP not only did I not wake up to the evil government kicking in my door to take away my guns I'm pretty sure I did not wake up in a Socialist State. I don't have any issues with the evil black gun, I own a folding stock AK47 myself, purchased through an FFL, none of my guns are for hunting. They are registerd, like my cat that's all. Guns are legal, if you have the legal right to own one (not a criminal, sort of thing) then buy one or as many as you want get a 100 round magazine it appears that Obama's first acts were not taking your guns away. However, should a bullet end up in your daughters head I would just assume you would want the police to be able to identify who owns the gun that put the bullet in your daughters head. That person my be innocent of that, perhaps the gun was stolen, it just seems like a good place to start an investigation. Maybe not, perhaps your right to "all" freedom of gun ownership means we as a nation should not care at all who might own the gun that killed your daughter. Just four more years, why don't you run for office, I know many who would support you. Note, I brought up nothing about immigration legal or not, while I will point out that I'm not a Native American but a legal (second generation born) US citizen with family having served in all wars since WWI however, none in military service now. To the point of illegal immigrants, that really has nothing to do with the legal issues of gun ownership and sounds, if you will pardon me a bit hateful. Again, that's fine too.

[Artist]

Hey drscooter,

I can understand how someone that works in the emergency room and sees exactly what a hollow point can do to someone's daughter?s head... and then has to give the bad news to those parents... would have a different viewpoint then those of us that don't deal with those horrors.

Of course, I'm sure you see far more carnage dealt out by auto accidents caused by drunk drivers every year. Should we punish those of us that never drink and drive by taking away our cars simply because criminals can't be trusted not to drink and drive? How many articles have you seen where there was a list of repeat drunk driving offenders, many of whom have been busted 20, 30, even 50 times or more for DUI. They had lost their license to drive, lost their car, and yet they were still able procure another vehicle, get drunk and drive... over and over and over again.

Now I don't know about you but it seems like a car is a heck of a lot harder to hide then say a handgun or even the dreaded "Black Gun". So, if we can't seem to keep the drunks off the streets perhaps everyone should turn in their cars and be forced to take public transportation (isn't that a liberals wet dream).

Bottom line, taking away peoples guns won't stop gun shootings, in reality the shootings WILL GO UP! It has been proven time and again, outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns... but now they will be far more brazen since they know the "good guys" won't be able to shoot back. Gun control equates to HIGHER CRIME, MORE RAPES, MORE B&E, MORE STABINGS, MORE SHOOTINGS, MORE DEATH, MORE CARNAGE!!! To think otherwise is your right, but you would be wrong, statistics don't lie. Wake up and smell the coffee, gun control is ALWAYS about GOVERNMENT CONTROL! ALWAYS!!! I admire your guts and defend your right to say what you want to say, but I steadfastly disagree with your point of view, and that good Doctor, is my right, no disrespect to you at all.

[drscooter]

Bottom line, children die in cribs, let us outlaw cribs. Oh wait, children slip and their heads go in buckets or toilets, good should those too need to be outlawed. Fact is, the purchase and ownership of guns IS legal in the USA. True, history shows that often time some cities have outlawed people from carrying guns within city limits, hence the Gunfight At the OK Corral but that's old news. Again, it is not a black and white, either or, right or wrong, there are many degrees of the truth. Just because the Nazi disarmed a population before they killed the Jews, don't mean that the armed citizen would have banded together against the Nazi to save those Jews, anymore than a group of well armed Americans stood up in this country to defend the Black Panthers or the legal rights of any other fringe group. I support your right to own guns, my point is more that gun ownership and gun registration are not mutually exclusive. I'm not even advocating any new laws, perhaps even easing laws on the books today. However, some gun laws make sense, registration of a weapon does not make it any more likely that your gun will be taken away. When they (I assume you refer to your own government who has gone "Tyrannical"), comes to get your guns just fight to the death, invoke the whole pry my cold dead hands rant the NRA so loves. Truth is, odds are you will be very old because no one will bother. If the military wanted to take you out, your little arsenal today would be useless, you'd just be a little grease spot and never would know what hit you. We are a society of laws, the law says you have the right to own guns the difference is our laws are subject to vote, the Nazi's had no such problems. Obama "seems" to respect the rule of law a bit more then some I won't mention. So because people die in cars the Government is not going to make them illegal and they don't need to take your guns away to restrict your freedoms either, they just call it the Patriot Act. Run it up the flag boys and see who will...................well you know.

Again, please note I do have a CCP and it is possible that I'm armed, it don't make the world a safer place, it is just to cover my chicken butt. You see a lot more tough guys going into battle then you will ever see coming out. Just because you are armed and ready don't mean you won't die, even if you really believe you are the big bad killer diller one lucky shot will put your lights out too.

I have great faith in President Obama, because everyone knows a blackman has to be twice as good to go half as far! Mind you, he is half white but that probably won't get too much in his way. Is this a great country or what.

[Artist]

Good point Doc, not!

About what I would expect from a foaming at the mouth liberal. What you neglect to mention is; I wouldn't put it past the government to outlaw buckets, or at least make it a federal crime to leave a bucket of water unattended.

Fact is the ownership of guns is legal FOR NOW. I live in IL, I register my guns, I have a FOID card, and I really don't have an issue with any of that. What I have an issue with is the way IL and Obama have been voting on gun issues. Keep in mind my friend that Obama has stacked the deck with leftist politicians from IL and many other leftist politicians that are very unfriendly to the second amendment. It's not about registration, it's about laws that will either outright require law abiding citizens to turn in their guns or make it cost prohibitive for all but the super rich to shoot.

Laws to shut down 90% of the gun stores in America. That is what a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park would do. Lay out a map of the United States and draw concentric circles around every single school and park and see what happens. It's underhanded and outright "tricky" laws like that that make me not trust Obama and his ilk. Sure, it sounds good to all the soccer moms (hockey moms might not be so easily taken in) but what exactly would not having a gun store within 5 miles of a school do. Do you really think high school kids are going out on their lunch hour to pick up an Uzi so they can shoot up the school? No, not having a gun store within 5 miles of a school or park would close pretty much every gun store in America, that is all it would do. Perhaps you don't mind going to Montana to get your ammo but I do. Besides that, I'm sure there would be another law that makes it illegal to transport that same ammo over the state line.

You said, and I quote "If the military wanted to take you out, your little arsenal today would be useless, you'd just be a little grease spot and never would know what hit you." Really, what a moronic thing to say. And again rather naive. Ask a Marine what the deadliest thing on the planet is. He'll smile in your face and say "a Marine and his rifle sir". Why do you think a government would bother to disarm the people if they knew it to be pointless?

You mention Nazi Germany, do you really think the majority of the Jewish people would have just sat there and not fought back had they been able to. Those armed Jewish people that could fight back did, and did very effectively I might add. I find it offensive that you even had the gall to equate the Jewish race with the Black Panthers or a "Fringe Group". The Black Panthers were a small political group; the Jewish people are a RACE. Besides that, do you really think it was just the Nazi's who disarmed their people and then slaughtered them? Do you know nothing about the world around you?

You don't seem to know your history but I can see it would be pointless to try and educate you here, your mind is made up, your eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears (la la la la la la la I can't hear you). It slays me that smart people can be so stupid sometimes, my brother is a prime example, but then he works at a hospital too.

To even bring up the fact that Obama is black is stupid and very racist on your part. What does his being black have to do with anything? Did anyone here other then you even mention his race? Does anyone else here care in the least bit that he is mulatto? As you mentioned yourself he's not really black per-say but of mixed blood. To hear you say it, if he does great things it will be because of his black half, if he screws the pooch you can blame it on his white side. Hey, great deal for you huh.

You assume we don't like him because he's black, give me a break. His color has nothing to do with it. I would "and have" voted for a black politician in a heartbeat when they shared my values. So would the majority of the people here, regardless of their race. I don't disagree with Obama on all issues but there are issues that he opposes that are so dear to my heart that there was no way I could vote for him. The gun issue is only one of the issues that I disagree with Obama on.

Obama is my president now and as such I will respect him and give him the benefit of the doubt. I actually like him as a person for the most part, from what he presents to the public anyway. I only prey he took the hard left attitude in his early voting record in order to get in the good graces of those that helped put him in power. He's a very bright guy; I hope he does what's good for the nation. I hope that now, as President, he will respect all of the citizens of this great country, including those of us that are law abiding gun owners.

I will keep my eye on Obama and hopefully be pleasantly surprised. In the mean time I will support the NRA, and I will march in the streets for MY RIGHTS if it comes down to it. My only fear is, with Obama's record it will come down to it.

At one time I respected you as an intelligent person. You seemed articulate and knowledgeable. Now? Hell, I wouldn't want to end up in your ER with a splinter in my finger.

BTW: Here is a short list of what Obama believes in. Go to the NRA web site, all these facts are real and referenced, not just made up stuff like you might see on The Daily Show or MSNBC.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.

FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate ?assault weapons,? but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and ?research.?

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.

[drscooter]

I would note that while you may disagree with my politics, opinion or views it does not make them stupid. Perhaps you did not intend to come across in such a manner and I admit that this is a bit out of order or context but for the most part the referral was made that I was a closed minded foaming at the mouth liberal who is stupid, naive, racists while you know the truth. I very well understand the Marine referral ("a Marine and his rifle sir").  however, in modern combat type situations coming up against US Forces the point I was making is that while you may believe that you can gather up your SHTF gear and head to the hills to defend your country from the Liberals who would enslave you (no black reference). My point was more a modern attack helicopter could pick up your heat signature lock on and blow you and anything close to you away with an assortment of weapons that you would not be able to respond to from ranges that would (probably) be outside even your awareness. I was clearly not comparing Jews to Black Panthers. If the Jews were armed during the Nazi raise and fought back, mind you I can only present a concept here, however, that probably would have added (right or wrong) some legal justification to the killings.  Further, what little sympathy the Jews might have had from the general population an armed revolt, probably would not have been a catalyst to encourage a general upraising against the Nazi Party. However, as you point out I'm too stupid to know, unable to even listen (fingers in the ear la la la) while dare I say you seem to have an open and liberal approach to ideas from all sides. Perhaps you did not understand my Black Panther reference, it was more to the fact that if one is defending the freedoms that are granted in this country would you stand up for those you disagree with? Example, the ruling party has decided that all foaming at the mouth, stupid liberals are a danger to the freedoms of this country and clearly are putting us on a path straight to hell and a Socialist State. The only reasonable thing to do and laws are set in place to capture and kill all the liberals and lawyers (tossed in just to generate hate). Would you sir take up your rifle, head to the hills and direct your forces of good to protect my right to speak out against things that you might believe in? Would it be important to you, that regardless of the fact, that should my cause succeed, you would loose the rights that you would need to defend the freedoms of those whom you disagree with? (Mind you, I'm pro-gun ownership unlike many liberals). While there are other such cases, I'll site but one in Chicago as that seems to clearly upset you; Nazi-Skokie controversy and the defense of Frank Collins (http://www.lib.niu.edu/1978/ii781111.html) I will also note that no one else did mention that Obama was black, clearly then I am a racists and I salute your open and liberal attitudes and you acceptance of others.

At one time I respected you as an intelligent person. You seemed articulate and knowledgeable. Now? Hell, I wouldn't want to end up in your ER with a splinter in my finger.

I would like to point out should you be in the ER for a splinter in your finger, that is not actually an emergency, not only does it cause you the people much higher costs that are shared by everyone hoping to have affordable health care, in fact, it endangers lives by adding costs, overcrowding and a dilution in services that can be provided. I also would like to apologies for myself, your brother and all of our types whom find employment in Hospitals. We do become rather cynical when we repeatedly see the biggest baddest mofo on the block, be they gang-bangers, motorcycle gang tough guys, ex-marines or just the meanest man you ever met, crying, pissing in their pants and begging for their momma's, God or even some liberal Jew or for that matter (and more likely today) Muslim Doctor to save them, often times from minor injury and wounds. It's only my experience but you guys just ain't so tough when you are under the lights in Trauma One bay. Again, I don't take the name calling too personal as I understand that even the tacit support of legal gun ownership and gun registration being used in a sentence might cause on a forum of gun owners. Still I point out in a debate while you may disagree, just because the opposing opinion cannot be swayed by your argument does not make them wrong, or stupid or even worthy of your contempt. Since I don't know you I will also assume that your grasp of both history and facts far exceed my knowledge.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21

Seems like a good idea, perhaps the whole ownership issue could be tied to voting age, you know requiring parents to be the legal owners of guns for minor children. Of course had I known this FACT clearly I would have seen the error of my ways and NOT voted for THAT ONE(?)

Mind you, it would not be much of a debate if we both agree.

[CM Rich]

I think you guys are wasting alot of time and energy arguing. It's not going to accomplish a single thing if some guys yell at each other over the internet, or throw around snide and childish remarks to get some sort of "victory". Such energy just contributes to a big loss later on.

I'll reiterate my point; the point isn't whether or not you're a democrat or republican, its about excersizing your first amendment rights in order to protect our second. I think its a given that if you're here as a member of this forum, you're into guns to some degree. You "get it". There are some people that won't "get it", and may never "get it", so we have to show strength in unity and show that we cherish our rights, and will go to bat for them in a civilized manner. If anything, I'd like to invite Mr Obama to the range; he may even enjoy it. Dude will need a stress reliever at some point, and I imagine the CIA's probably got one wicked set up.

Again, I don't like alot of Obama's stances, but I will say that he's an intelligent man, and intelligent men are men that will listen to a well-presented opinion. We shouldn't villify the guy and immediately assume him to be a bitter enemy that will kick in our doors while laughing like the Antichrist. Instead, we need to adopt a very calm, non-accusatory tone and manner and argue for ourselves and our views. We need to make it a point that we're the ones obeying the law; not the criminals, who aren't negatively affected by acts like the AWB. We're the ones who need help.

Coming after him with fire and brimstone definately won't help our already bad public image as either "black-clad mall ninja psychos" or "hillbilly shotgun weilders", because for the most part, that's how we're seen by John Q. Public. We've got a really bad image problem. We should suprise them by being ourselves, because I doubt very many of us fall into either one of the two stereotypes listed above. If we can at least break the public's image of the typical CCWer or active shooter, then we'll be in a better position to argue our point. We're not going to do that by tossing facts AT EACH OTHER and debating amongst ourselves.

We're better than this, guys. C'mon.

Obama's got a really tough road ahead of him, and I can't understand why anybody would want his seat. Be that as it may, it's our job to both support him, as well as voice our opinions and keep him on track, and let him know when he does something we don't like. Laws can be changed if they don't work out or they prove to be unpopular. The role of the President is to channel the will of the people, as in ALL of them. The only way we're going to get our interests heard is if we play ball and make sure he understands our will. He, the Senate, and Congress are now composed of a majority of people we've come to label as "enemies", and we immediately give up on them, just as they give up on us. Maybe that's one thing that really should be changed. We need to start seeing them as Americans with different views than our own, but Americans nevertheless.

We don't live in a perfect world, where everybody gets along all the time, but we should still use that as our goal. I think that's a pretty amirable goal, however unobtainable it may be. America is still the best place to reach for that goal, and its because of our Bill of Rights that we're able to continue to do so. We just need to be reminded of that every now and then so we can keep things in perspective.

We've gotta get things back in perspective. We haven't lost anything yet, and we're not doomed, so we shouldn't act as though we are. Last time I checked, Americans were able to debate just about everything in an open manner, and that's great! So lets use this distinctly American ability and get some work done.

[drscooter]

Well Rich I agree, that is sort of my point and I wonder just why a person who IS a gun owner and recreational shooter as well as one who has a taken the training to obtain a CCP would be trashed by fellow gun owners because I'm not 100% against every issue related to gun control. While I may not seem like the voice of reason, I have the ability to explain to a soccer mom type in a non-threatening way, just why an Assult Rifle as defined for sale to the general public is really far more similar to a Remington 740 hunting rifle (didn't granpa hunt deer) than an Uzi. One constantly hears how our only option against "this" government that seemingly seeks to enslave us, is for the decent folks to all have unregestered weapons to support our freedom. Sorry, perhaps I am silly but I support the rights to legal gun ownership and what I consider reasonable laws, that last part I understand leave lots of room for debate. Even if criminals clearly don't follow the law it seems reasonable to have "some" laws that set qualifications for a citizen to own a firearms after all if there is NO gun registration/laws for who may own a gun than anyone criminal, gangbanger or psycho-killer has just as much a "right" to a firearm as John Q Public. An example might be, age 16 no convictions of domestic violence, no felony convictions just what I think a reasonable person might choose, again debatable. I find it odd and this is not the only gun forum where I have run into hostile responses based only on the fact that I feel some gun laws make sense in a civil society. When I talk to anti-gunner/grabber types I often explain being the hypocrit I am that even as I enjoy a fine ribeye, if I had to knock over the cow myself I would be a vegitarian. I explain that none of my firearms are hunting or sporting they are all anti-personell designed to kill people, often military or police type weapons. Why, I don't actually kill people, I go to a range and shoot paper, it's fun and harmless and just sort of my hobby. I don't keep guns to insure my freedoms from some evil government that may raise up. I have faith in our form of goverment and the democratic process. I agree and suggests that the gun owners of America need to help reduce the fear of that part of the population who never will be gun owners. They don't won't to be victims of crime but they also worry that thier children may be killed or injured not only by criminal activity but by unsecured weapons. When I was a child a friend and I found an old military 45 of this friends dad, lucky for us it was rusty and we were to small to rack the weapon. This however, is a mother's nightmare (father's too) an unsecured weapon in a bedside drawer is a tragedy waiting to happen. The funny thing to me is I support the right to own a gun where we start to differ is I think sales should be through a FFL Dealer and some form of gun registration. If that makes me the enemy of people on a gun forum I don't know how you plan to sell this to a non-gun owner soccer mom crowd.

[strictlycz]

Granted, nothing was said about illegals (I brought that up all on my own). However, the point was, there is way more important issues to worry about in this country (ECONOMY???). When Mr. Obama is taking the time to actually think about legislation that would affect LEGAL gun owners when he first gets into office should raise some eyebrows. By the way, there are more deaths from not only cars........but doctor malpractice than guns annually. I would also be curious to find out how many of the gun deaths every year were committed by LEGAL gun owners. I would bet the percentage is reallly low. Accidental deaths caused by careless parents who leave guns out and accessible to children are rare also. I certainly dont think everyone should have absolute freedom as far as gun ownership goes. I have a CCW and had to go through an FBI background check. That is fair and fine. If you are a felon, drug addict, have a domestic violence conviction you should not be allowed to own a gun.  Serializing ammunition does nothing to help crime. It just will raise the cost again to LEGAL gun owners. Do you actually believe a criminal who most likely owns a gun illegally, is actually going to use MARKED ammo? 

Mike Arnold