Author Topic: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom  (Read 6245 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WildRice

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« on: April 12, 2009, 01:02:58 PM »
The Phantom is a polymer framed SP01 9mm with light weight, a full sized mag well, and a suberb grip shape and texture.  It stays anchored in your hand like Velcro.

I have a Kadet kit that I already use on my P01 (compact) 9mm.

Kadet kit tuning on the Phantom took some time.  First of all, it slides right on, but the non-reciprocating part of the Kadet kit is really only supported at the slide stop block area and not at the forward part (the polymer Phantom dust cover does not really offer slide support, the Phantom slide is supported by mid and rear metal inserts in the polymer frame).  Despite that, it functions well and shoots accurately as a 22LR.  For slide lock back, one will need to modify a PCR slide stop.  The Phantom slide stop's inner lug is way too short to reach the 22 mag follower.  A PCR slide stop inner lug is long enough, but it still needs modification.  The PCR slide stop has too much resistance for the weak 22LR magazine spring.  The options are to remove and bend the slide stop spring (which helps some, but too much can make the slide stop spring too weak for normal 9mm function).  I ended up filing the slot on the PCR slide stop shaft (the notch on the top right of the shaft that abuts the slide stop retaining spring).  The deeper this slot, the less pressure the slide stop spring exerts.  Deepening the slot could potentially weaken the slide stop, so only use the PCR slide stop for 22LR (and not for 9mm).  I tried my best to balance everything to allow reliable lock back on the last round and retain slide release with sling shot pulling of the slide.  However, due to the extra friction of the polymer (despite deburring the polymer portion of the slide stop holes and polymer frame face under the slide stop), this was not possible.  I settled by filing the slot so much that there is no significant downward pressure on a lifted slide stop, so I release the slide by simply pushing down on the slide stop after reloading (as one normally would).  It will not release on its own using sling shot pull back.  However, it will lock back the slide after the last round, reliably every time.  That was more important to me as it prevents damage to the firing pin (dry firing some rim fire guns can be bad for the firing pins).  Despite the lack of downward slide stop pressure, it did not lock back prematurely with rounds left in the mag, test fired with 200rds.  Using the stock Phantom slide stop with the 9mm Phantom slide is still completely normal.

I found my Kadet kit mag followers to be very gritty after about 1,000 rds each.  I disassembled the mags and used a test tube brush to clean the inside of the mags and followers really well.  While I was at it, I restretched the mag springs 1" for firmer spring action.

The reason I did all this work to get the Kadet kit working on the Phantom was that it is so much cheaper to shoot hundreds of rounds, and excellent full-sized-handgun practice.  The Kadet kit mags are full length and stick out too much on my more compact P01 (function fine but look weird).  The Kadet kit mags fit the Phantom perfectly.  Also, my Phantom's single action trigger was very stagey and creepy.  I performed an "in situ" sear hone that helped alot, but was still not quite where I wanted it.  The extra range time afforded by the Kadet kit has helped the sear break in process and better trained my finger to the Phantom's trigger action.  It shoots very accurately if I take my time.  Rapid fire is fun but not as accurate, of course.  The Kadet kit is not a match system as it is hampered by the CZ75 trigger system.  My most accurate 22LR pistols are Kimber and Ciener 22LR conversions on match tuned 1911 Colt Commander stainless steel frames (mainly due to the crisp, light, short-travel triggers).  The Kimber 22LR conversion is a real tack driver.  The Ciener is not as tight fitting but is a sweet and handy Commander length.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 10:54:00 PM by WildRice »

Offline Stuart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8603
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 01:25:07 PM »
thanks for the update..
the Kadet kit is great on a single action only CZ..trigger is crisp and fast.

Offline phrozenlikwid

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 03:18:57 PM »
thanks for the update..
the Kadet kit is great on a single action only CZ..trigger is crisp and fast.

I'll second that.  Mine is over a wicked '75B lower done up by Stuart.  I'd put the trigger on that against the 1911 kits I've seen and played with.  The only .22 pistol I've liked as much as my Kadet was the S&W model 41, but the CZ ergos trump the 41 anyday of the week for practical shooting.  If I can get higher cap Kadet mags to work, I think it would be a SERIOUS bid for being the best 22LR guns going for run and gun type stuff.

Offline WildRice

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 07:17:08 PM »

From the top:
1. Kimber Rimfire Target on a Colt Commander stainless steel frame (45 ACP). Needed to slightly file the slide's safety notch to properly work the thumb safety. Very tight fitting and superbly accurate. It's the most accurate pistol I own.
2. CZ Kadet Kit on a CZ75 SP01 Phantom polymer frame (9mm). Needed a CZ PCR slide stop and slide stop tuning. Slide locks back on last shot, unlike the others.
3. Ciener Platinum Cup Commander length on another Colt Commander Stainless steel frame (45 ACP). No tuning required. Fit not tight but accurate none the less.
4. Ciener Hi-Power Plus on a Browning hi-Power (9mm). Required slight extractor tuning to increase tension on rim, rear sight filing to clear hammer. Needs CCI mini mags (or other high velocity ammo) for reliable feeding. I believe the stock Browning hammer spring is overly stout and needs high velocity 22LR ammo to overcome it.

All have adjustable target sights. All are very reliable (after tuning if need be). The CZ Kadet kit has a steel reciprocating slide section that allows for a functional slide stop and will lock back after the last round. It also fits my CZ75 P01 (compact 9mm). The down side is that the Kadet slide is hard to grasp hand rack unless the hammer is cocked first. The other three are aluminum slides and are not designed to lock back, so one must count rounds loading and shooting to prevent dry fire.

Offline PTGT_Neon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
    • Efficient Mileage
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 12:55:19 AM »
Thanks again wildrice!  Very helpful.  Is there any chance of getting pics of the modifications?

Offline WildRice

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 10:19:05 PM »
I have used my Kadet Kit on both my P-01 (compact alloy) and Phantom (full-size polymer).  Both require the PCR slide stop with its longer inner lug.  Like I said, the front of the Phantom's frame is just a dust cover and does not really engage the front end of the Kadet Kit.  Using hand force, the Kadet Kit can see-saw slightly on the Phantom frame with the slide stop as its fulcrum.  This does not seem to hinder accuracy or reliability, but I wonder if it could cause undue wear with the thousands of 22LR rounds I fire.  I will be doing most of my 22LR shooting with the P-01 as a base for this reason.  That is a shame because I prefer the grip of the Phantom and the Kadet mags don't jut out on the Phantom like they do on the P-01.

Offline PTGT_Neon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
    • Efficient Mileage
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 06:56:23 PM »
Thanks for the info. Maybe a thin layer of metal could be brazed to the Kadet slide to prevent the rocking.  That much play will definitely cause a wear problem that will affect the 9mm accuracy.  Do you have some calipers to measure the difference in thickness?

Offline WildRice

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 10:58:45 PM »
The polymer-framed Phantom is different from a standard CZ75 in that the 9mm slide is not engaged the full length of the frame.  The Phantom has two sets of metal rail inserts, one set with the sear group at the rear and one set mid gun at the slide stop area.  The front of the frame is just a dust cover with straight walls that do not engage the slide.  This works fine with 9mm with its one piece slide well supported by the two sets of rail inserts.  However, with the Kadet Kit, the front non-reciprocating part of the Kit does not engage the dust cover of the Phantom frame and is only supported at the slide stop shaft.  The Kit can see-saw on the slide stop shaft without a front engagement site.  The reciprocating part of the Kit is enaged by both sets of frame inserts.

I have not noticed any wear when using my Kit on the Phantom and it functions fine with normal accuracy, but the see saw action is not confidence inspiring.  I don't think this is fixable, short of a third set of metal rail inserts inside of the Phantom's dust cover.

It is a shame because I prefer the grip and full size mag well of the Phantom for shooting the Kadet Kit.

Offline pitbull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2009, 12:01:38 AM »
Very informative WildRice. I don't have a Phantom but I did enjoy your discription of the modifications you made to get the Kadet adapter to work with the Phantom. Obviously you spent alot of time getting it to work properly.

Offline kean57

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Kadet Kit on the Polymer SP01 Phantom
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2020, 06:07:38 PM »
Hello,
I know this is a long-dead topic/thread...but I actually thought of a way to prevent the "see-sawing" that is described here, where the non-reciprocating part of the Kadet slide does not engage the rails on the Phantom and can "see-saw" on the slide stop. Even though I am not sure how that could case wear (the part of the Kadet slide that actually reciprocates is fully engaged with the rails in the Phantom frame) one simple solution, though not elegant, that completely eliminates the "see-sawing" is to wrap a rubber band around the top front of the Kadet slide (behind the front sight)and into one of the rail slots on the front of the dust cover. This slight downward pressure completely eliminates any "see -sawing."
A  more elegant solution is to find an appropriate-size O-ring, that will fit over the top front of the Kadet slide and sit snugly in a dust cover rail-slot. This obviously looks much better, and performs the same function as the rubber band. It should also last quite a while, and be relatively cheap and easy to replace.