New AZ bills on Gov desk

[chiuszeto]

If everybody is allowed to carry, as in Vermont, then that's a fair baseline for all - even the people who do not carry.

But... If you limit it to permit holders based on the holders meeting a predetermined state standard, how to you account for the folks with out-of-state permits where their states do not uphold the same standards?

There are some states where in order to obtain a permit, you just need a clean records check - no orientation, no class requirements, nothing... Does Arizona have any reciprocating agreements with any such states? If so, how does this apply to out-of-state folks? Same thing for the college campus bill too.

[armoredman]

As of right now, AZ has reciprocity with any state that issues a CCW permit, to the best of my knowledge, check with AZ DPS to be sure. Also, Alaska has the best setup for today's legal world, no permit needed in state, but if you wish to carry out of state, you may get an Alaska CCW permit for reciprocity.

[BobC]

http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=20697.msg128850#new

See post #37

[armoredman]

Today is signing day - she must sign or veto, or they become law without signature. She signed the firearms instructor one, which expands the people who can be instructors in  schools that choose to use the state firearms education program. Limited victory - I don't know anyone using the program, wish it was mandatory, like driver's ed.
We'll know tonight.

[armoredman]

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixmetro/central/story/Gov-Brewer-approves-law-allowing-guns-in-bars/5cCTyK4b1ky35CnwUhbfgQ.cspx

Gov. Brewer approves law allowing guns in bars
Reported by: Associated Press
Last Update: 7/13 11:58 pm 


PHOENIX -- Arizonans with concealed weapons permits will be allowed to take a handgun into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol under a bill signed Monday by Gov. Jan Brewer.

The measure, backed by the National Rifle Association, will require bar and restaurant owners who want to ban weapons on the premises to post a no-guns sign next to their liquor license.

It becomes effective September 30.

Drinking while carrying a weapon would be illegal.

Before a compromise was reached late in the Legislature's regular session, the measure pitted powerful groups representing gun and bar owners against each other.

Supporters said people should be able to protect themselves at businesses that serve alcohol and shouldn't have to endure the risk of leaving their gun in a parked vehicle.

Todd Rathner, an NRA lobbyist, said he was pleased Brewer signed it after former Gov. Janet Napolitano vetoed a similar bill in 2005. Brewer, a Republican, became governor when Napolitano, a Democrat, resigned in January to become U.S. Homeland Security secretary.

"Any law that allows law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm in more places makes the community safer," Rathner said.

Opponents have said mixing guns and alcohol produces a dangerous combination that could cause violence.

"Now there's going to be a fear that you don't know if the person next to you is carrying a concealed weapon or not," said Sen. Ken Cheuvront, a Phoenix Democrat who owns a wine bar and restaurant downtown.

More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed weapons permits and would be allowed to carry a gun into consenting bars and restaurants.

Brewer's signature makes Arizona the 41st state to allow guns in businesses that serve alcohol, according to the NRA.

The bill originally applied only to establishments with kitchens, but it was expanded to include bars.

Another change was to move the location for posting a no-guns notice, which originally was to have been next to the main entrance.

Some bar owners had worried about uncertainty over which entrance would be considered the main entrance.

A lobbyist for the Arizona Licensed Beverage Association, which opposed the original bill, said the amended version created clear, uniform and enforceable rules.

"It's going to happen one way or another, and this was the best version we've seen," ALBA lobbyist Don Isaacson said after the bill was revised last month.

It's already legal to carry a gun into a store that sells alcohol for consumption elsewhere.

It would be a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a fine of up to $500 to carry a gun into an establishment with a no-guns notice posted.

The law, however, includes a partial legal defense for a person carrying a concealed weapon within an establishment banning guns.

It would apply if the sign had fallen down, the person wasn't an Arizona resident or the notice was first posted less than a month earlier.

Brewer also signed a bill allowing gun-owners to display a firearm if they feel threatened and another allowing them to keep firearms in their locked vehicles while parked at businesses that ban weapons.

The measure allows businesses to ban guns if they provide a secured parking lot or if they provide a nearby secondary lot that allows them.

It is sooooo nice having a pro self defense/civilian firearms ownership governor for a change.

[chiuszeto]

"The law, however, includes a partial legal defense for a person carrying a concealed weapon within an establishment banning guns.

It would apply if the sign had fallen down, the person wasn't an Arizona resident or the notice was first posted less than a month earlier."

Hmmm... So it eludes that this is "right" is also granted to non-Arizona residents with CCW. This might become interesting with CCWs from states that require NO training, some that may not have heard of things like the concept of "deadly force" and guidelines around it.

"Brewer also signed a bill allowing gun-owners to display a firearm if they feel threatened and another allowing them to keep firearms in their locked vehicles while parked at businesses that ban weapons."

This at least takes care of the assault piece...

I'm all for folks being allowed to protect themselves, but this patchwork of varying laws is nuts.

Any word on CCWs carrying on college campuses (which also runs into possible similar issues/challenges)?

[BobC]

I'm going create a web site/blog/forum that lists AZ establishments that post the no-gun notice.  It's the choice of any establishment to post such a notice, but it's also the choice of CCW permit holders whether they want to patronize establishments that don't believe they should be able to defend themselves under their roof.

My take on the college campus topic is that since mostly liberals run the halls of academia, it'll be a cold day in hell.

[armoredman]

chui, AZ honors out of state permits, similar to the full faith and credit granted to thier drivers licenses, regardless of the training required to recieve that, or the propensity of that state's citizens to mow down little children in school playgrounds, (California), with thier Cadillacs. Our states laws are FAR better than a lot of states, such as Cali, New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, etc., and I would not want to see a federal attempt to "change" our laws to conform to anyone else's standard, which is why we have fifty nifty United States. If you don't like your state's laws , move.  
As for campus carry, I think that's legal in utah and Texas now, AZ didn't get that one out of committee, but maybe next year.

[chiuszeto]

"Any law that allows law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm in more places makes the community safer,"

For the states that do not require any training/orientation for a CCW, how are some of these folks aware that there are actual laws around banishing a firearm to abide by? Why limit this to CCWs, if it is not for the training/orientation that they have received over anyone else who is allowed to carry open?

I am not against the bill. I am just pointing out the silliness of the gaping hole and broken logic around the CCW limitation, when there are CCWs with no training/orientation. Those folks are no different than the others who are allowed to carry open, also without any training/orientation.

[armoredman]

And in AZ we are allowed to carry open, without training required, and we still have a much lower rate of accidental shootings than places like, say, LA, or New York, where firearms ownership is stigmatized.   
Yes, we see your point, but the problem was we couldn't get thebill through for everyone, we are using the leftists own trick against them, the camel's nose under the tent. First CCW holders, then everyone, next year. Incrementalism works both ways.

[chiuszeto]

That's one of the better answers.

As for the "hypocrisy" piece, it needs to go both ways. When people act extremely stupid with firearms, it needs to be identified as such as well as dealt with accordingly regardless of who and where - example being the Uzi-shot "accident" (negligence) of that father in Massachusetts, instead of the organizers of the event.