Something wrong with either me or my CZ 52

[oldnoob]

I took my "new to me" CZ 52 out for a range trip last weekend. And it was first time for a great long while that I can't group all my bullets within my 8x11 xerox paper target.  :'(

It had been detail strip and clean plus lube by me personally and no FTF/FTE for full 150rd (not much I know but I also had 4 other pistols to shoot that day).  But the grouping scares me. I also took my Norinco Tok (54-1) with and shot the same surplus ammo from the same can, with a decent 4" group (out of 25 feet).

I don't know what when wrong.  But the trigger felt much harder than when I dry firing it back at home (with snap caps).  I'm going to try again in few days but man, that was a let down.



The next range report should follow in few days.

[skucera]

In this sort of a case, where a new owner is shooting their new CZ 52 and discovers they have terrible groups with it, I usually comment that the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev round is very powerful and tends to get even seasoned shooters flinching.  Well, I can't write that for you.  You've controlled your experiment very well, shooting the same ammo in a Tokarev pistol that you already own.

So....

Look the pistol over very carefully.  Have you checked your barrel for belling or a bulge?  Is the lip of the muzzle damaged in any way?  Does the slide move freely over the barrel?  (This might point to a bulged barrel.)  Is the muzzle end of the rifling warn away from over-cleaning (common on military firearms)?

If all this looks good, then look back at the shooter.  The roller-cammed barrel does have a slightly different recoil than other delayed blowback actions, and maybe it is causing some flinching.  The CZ 52 is less tolerant of limp wristing, but you aren't reporting any stovepiped shells, so this probably isn't you problem.  Do you have an idea which way the fliers are flying?  There are several diagnostic targets on the web that might help.  You can try using one of those, perhaps closer to see all the fliers on the paper.

Scott

[oldnoob]

In this sort of a case, where a new owner is shooting their new CZ 52 and discovers they have terrible groups with it, I usually comment that the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev round is very powerful and tends to get even seasoned shooters flinching.  Well, I can't write that for you.  You've controlled your experiment very well, shooting the same ammo in a Tokarev pistol that you already own.

So....

Look the pistol over very carefully.  Have you checked your barrel for belling or a bulge?  Is the lip of the muzzle damaged in any way?  Does the slide move freely over the barrel?  (This might point to a bulged barrel.)  Is the muzzle end of the rifling warn away from over-cleaning (common on military firearms)?

If all this looks good, then look back at the shooter.  The roller-cammed barrel does have a slightly different recoil than other delayed blowback actions, and maybe it is causing some flinching.  The CZ 52 is less tolerant of limp wristing, but you aren't reporting any stovepiped shells, so this probably isn't you problem.  Do you have an idea which way the fliers are flying?  There are several diagnostic targets on the web that might help.  You can try using one of those, perhaps closer to see all the fliers on the paper.

Scott

Thanks, I will go over the check list you mentioned, and try again this week.

Barrel: no bulge, go through slide smoothly.
Rifling: no pits.  At first I though the rifling was go for it seems to me it's sallower then my other 9mm, 40, 357 pistols, but about the same with my Norinco Tok.
Rollers: move freely, but I extra lubed just in case.
Barrel cam: move freely, extra lube just in case.
Barrel Lip: looks fine for me, not signs of damage.

I'll post a follow up in few days and maybe the targets.

[josey88]

I can tell you , by my own experience , that the CZ-52s are scary accurate ...  these pistols are really, really precise . I have two of them and I can do the same precision shooting with both . The only thing that I can think of , besides the shooter itself, is that the barrel would be worn out ; that would affect the accuracy big time . I replaced the barrels (and just about everything else) on my CZs , and the firing pins from Harrington (the competition type) are great . It allows you to really get the feeling on the trigger and get the pull on the trigger down  to around 4 lbs or less . That too increases accuracy. Other than that , I just don`t know what can be causing the problem !!!!!  

[TimTheGrim]

My 1st outing with my CZ 52 was also disappointing to a point.
I got the pistol off Gun Broker and did a full cleaning and check out.
The barrel had some frost and pitting but looked OK. The action was tight and crisp.
I started out shooting Polish surplus from a "sardine can" and the results were awful.
Then I tried some nice Czech ammo that came on stripper clips with the same result.
I was having a hard time staying in a 8 inch square Shoot-n-See at 15 yards

I put some 45 ACP through my Taurus PT-1911 to be sure I wasn't spazzing out and the results were good.

I have a couple Broomhandles so I took some 30 Mauser, loaded a clip and put 7 rounds through the CZ 52 . Much much better . It even grouped.

I replaced the barrel before my next outing and the difference was night and day. I was so happy I went home and
machined down the old rear sight off my Sig P2340 to fit the CZ dovetail and machined the front of the slide to fit the Sig front sight.

Now I have great sights and the thing is accurate with all three types listed above, but the Privi 30 Mauser is still the best.

For 40 bucks or so a new barrel was a great investment. Very little fitting was required.
I got mine from Sportsman's Guide along with 2 magazines that I can also recommend. The mags were only $19.99 each.

Best of luck.

Tim

[josey88]

I forgot to ad that the ammo that I have been using is the Privi 7.62x25  from 1986 surplus ... it is  perfect.

[oldnoob]

I'm gonna shoot it again as it is (cleaned and lube) with my surplus ammo.  If the problem still there, I might either get a replacement barrel or just sell it out right. I don't ever plan on use the none surplus ammo that cost $18~20.  For the whole reason I get this gun was to shoot the cheapest centerfire caliber out in the market.  Wish me luck, I either go today or tomorrow.

[oldnoob]

+++++UPDATE+++++

Ok, the range trip #2. 

I brought my CZ52 (with stock grip, not the wood grip I use for the photo) and Norinco Tok.  Both have been clean and lube right before the trip.

The ammo still the same Romanian '80 surplus ammo from the same can.

The distance were 21 feet on all the target.

Same shooter, me.

Here are my targets: 8" x 11" xerox paper:
Tok, slow fire, one mag


Tok, slow fire, 3 mags



CZ, slow fire, one mag


CZ, slow fire, 3 mags


Here are my diagnosis:

my CZ barrel were fine, no bulge, no rust, no pits.  Rifling were fine, though getting a NIB spare barrel might be a good investment for this pistol.  The sights, rollers, cam, all fine, no noticeable damage.

My accuracy issue were mostly due to the hard trigger pull and CZ52's unique recoil system. It really take some practice to get used to it.  For some reason I was more prone to flinch with CZ than Tok.

Also, I notice with CZ52's stock grip, after recoil, the grip moved slightly, so I have to keep re-adjusting my hands and that too made me lesser accurate on my aim.  This is none issue with the wood grip.

[skucera]

I had a similar problem with flinching when I first got my CZ 52.  I found that I really had to work hard at that, but the work on stilling my mind and firing deliberately paid off when shooting other pistols, especially other "major" caliber pistols I shot back then.  As Josey wrote, the CZ 52 can be a very accurate pistol, but it took working on myself to make it that way.

Scott

[josey88]

I should mention that I never experienced the hard trigger pull problem , because I replaced the firing pins on my two CZs  from the beginning with the Competition III type firing pins , from Harrington .  Since I was aware of the  breakdowns and issues with the original firing pins, I just ordered and installed them before I went to shoot for the first time , and the trigger pull on those firing pins is now reduced to 3 or 4 lbs ... very sweet . Also, I was a little concerned about the potency of the 7.62x25 rd , so I started with a firm and tight grip , and later on , I got used to the grip on the CZ , so now it is ok.  It is important to get a good grip on this pistol ; if you do that , and your two hands are comfortable , then you are set 

[oldnoob]

I should mention that I never experienced the hard trigger pull problem , because I replaced the firing pins on my two CZs  from the beginning with the Competition III type firing pins , from Harrington .  Since I was aware of the  breakdowns and issues with the original firing pins, I just ordered and installed them before I went to shoot for the first time , and the trigger pull on those firing pins is now reduced to 3 or 4 lbs ... very sweet . Also, I was a little concerned about the potency of the 7.62x25 rd , so I started with a firm and tight grip , and later on , I got used to the grip on the CZ , so now it is ok.  It is important to get a good grip on this pistol ; if you do that , and your two hands are comfortable , then you are set 

It's really weird.  I have dry fire (with snap cap) many time, even now as I type this. The trigger does NOT feel nearly as hard as when I was firing the gun live.

[haywardiii]

If the trigger pull feels diff with dry fire I would say you just have to get used to the roller breech locking system.  You are anticipating the recoil when you have a live round, not when you have dry fire.  Try not firing the Tok at the same range session, or at least not first.  It might be affecting your perception of the recoil impulse in the 52.

[oldnoob]

If the trigger pull feels diff with dry fire I would say you just have to get used to the roller breech locking system.  You are anticipating the recoil when you have a live round, not when you have dry fire.  Try not firing the Tok at the same range session, or at least not first.  It might be affecting your perception of the recoil impulse in the 52.

Thanks I'll try that. 

[josey88]

At the beginning, when I got to the range for the first time , I was a little taken by the thought of the power on the 7.62x25 rd , but after I shot a few rds , it was just like another gun ...loud, but no big deal, really !!!  Easily controlled, not a very comfortable grip , but workable (what else can one expect , from a 58 years old pistol), and very accurate . It calls attention too ; after the first shots, I had a crowd around wanting to know what  I was shooting (because of the noise) . The ejection also is strong : these things eject the cartridges up to 20 feet away !!! I like the fact  that I was obtaining such accuracy on two pistols that I was shooting for the first time . My regular distance is 15 yards or 45 feet . The only thing that I encountered was that the edge of the trigger on both guns , after 70 or so rds , was killing my trigger finger . I barely finished 150 rds between the two pistols(with my finger on fire and taking breaks) and when I got home , I grabbed my Dremel and smoothered the edges of the triggers  on the two guns , very gently and carefully . The next trip was great; no trigger finger problems and everything is  now  peachy ...!!!  I am very pleased with the performance of these pistols. I  now have a couple of very powerful pistols that shoot a potent cartridge, very accurate, very cheap ammo to obtain , and it really is a different thing ... For me , it is great that I have been able to upgrade these older cold war relics to the today`s  standards in reliability and performance , and in top of all, they look  beautiful too , with that racy 1950s style...!  Enjoy the pics

[oldnoob]

Another update:


This is the 5th range report. Now I can manage to keep my group withing 3.5" in distant of 21' and slow fire. And I conclude the problem of accuracy was due to shooter flinched. Most of target will have 1 or 2 shot (out of 8rd fired) dead center. And usually the fire shot. So it was capable to shoot straight. But I just can't seem to get rid of my flinch problem like a pistol noob.

I think I will keep this one unless someone local offer me good deal on trade. I will use this CZ as my training pistol.