Extremely rare FTE.... ammo problem?

[LuckyPierre]

Hi.

I have an 85C, and it's my bloody soulmate.  Love this gun.

I'm shooting commercially remanufactured ammo, and getting the odd FTE (2 in 800 rounds).  Once was a clear miss on the extractor, the case was still 100% in the chamber, and the next round had nosed in.  The other was like a stovepipe, but parallel to the bore axis.

I suspect it's the ammo (really inconsistent recoil characteristics), but I have the Wolff xtra power extractor springs here, just in case.

Any thoughts or commentary?  Any similar experiences?

Cheers,

Pierre

[Walt-Sherrill]

It may be that the extractor spring is starting to get tired -- CZ extractor springs are not known for robustness.  

Wolff offers an extra-strength extractor spring for the 75/85 guns.   (Under $4 if I remember right.)

Order one of those and pick up a new 16 ib. recoil spring and a couple of 5% + mag springs, too, while you're at it.  (You can get by with a 14 1b. recoil spring.  Factory springs tested out at about 12 lbs. in the past.)

You'll eventually want them, anyhow.

[LuckyPierre]

Thanks Walt.

After lurking on this forum for... ages, I ordered 3 Wolff extractor springs at the same time I ordered the recoil calibration pack I mentioned in my other post.

I'm really, really, really looking forward to driving out that itty, bitty pin to pull the extractor.

About the mag springs, Being in Canada, I'm still stuck with 10 rounders, and they have the extended floor plate, so the springs are pre-tensioned.  Think I'll need the extra power mag springs?

[Walt-Sherrill]

The springs used with 10round mags are the same springs used with the "hi-cap" mags.  

Wolff makes a point, in their FAQ area, to note that its good practice, when using hi-cap mags, to download a round or two,  when storing the mags loaded, to lengthen the service life of the mag springs.  

With 10 rounders, no special care is needed, as fully compressed, those springs aren't being stressed as much as the same springs in a 15-round mag.  You can store them fully loaded and not shorten the springs' service life.

[LuckyPierre]

That's actually what I mean... with the Canadian factory 10 rounders, the mag body is shorter, and the floor plate incorporates an extension, so the spring has a much larger pre-load than the factory 15s.

You lucky buggers with your factory 15s....

[Tangram 37]

I am curious about going to the stronger recoil spring.

"Order one of those and pick up a new 16 ib. recoil spring and a couple of 5% + mag springs, too, while you're at it. (You can get by with a 14 1b. recoil spring. Factory springs tested out at about 12 lbs. in the past.) "

On my 1911 9mm I went to a lower power (-2 lbs) recoil spring.  Slightly less perceived recoil and the cases still eject from the pistol a reasonable distance. Reliable cycling..  (I did go with more powerful mag springs they seem to work fine.)

I have read several posts suggesting stronger springs are better for the CZ but I don't understand the rational.

[Walt-Sherrill]

There may not be a rationale, except that folks who reload don't like chasing down their brass.

The factory springs are probably alright -- supposed to be 14 pounds, but more likely are 12.  

A heavier recoil spring will cause the slide to slam forward with greater force, which could help feeding, in your case.

[LuckyPierre]

Hm.  I'm still getting the odd FTE, even with the new Wolff extractor spring.

I generally shoot ~200 rounds each range trip, and I have at least one, never more than 3 failures to extract.  It's happened with commercial reloads, WWB, and UMC (crap!).

Could the extractor claw need a bit of "sharpening"?  I'm pretty puzzled.

It's definately the extractor, the casing is usually about 1/2 way out of the chamber, and the slide has started stripping the next round, which noses into the keister of the un-extracted casing.

Kinda annoying, hey?

Cheers,

Pierre

[Walt-Sherrill]

It could be the extractor.  (Since you replaced the spring, its unlikely there's gunk behind the extractor -- although if the ammo is very dirty that's STILL a possibility.)

YOu might contact the importer of your weapon to see about a replacement extractor.  I undrstand that they've slightly changed th e design of both the extractors and slide stops in the past year or so.

[LuckyPierre]

Thanks Walt, I'll do that.  I wonder if I already have the new model of slide stop and extractor, though.  The gun was purchased new in January.

Somebody actually told me who the importer for CZ is here in Canada, but I can't for the life of me remember the name.

When the gun shoots, it's a dream, but this particular brand of stoppage requires that the slide be locked back, and then you have to reach into the ejection port, and slide the top round in the mag back into place, so the mag can be ejected, then the gun must be inverted and shaken until the un-extracted case comes out, then re inset the mag and drop the slide.

A very long stoppage to clear

[Walt-Sherrill]

I have that same problem with my AT-84S and my 75B SA when shooting Blazer ammo.  It shoots well in other CZs that I own.  Its clearly an extractor problem, and not an extractor SPRING problem -- I've replaced the springs -- but I've stilll not gotten new extractors.  I just avoid BLAZER in those two guns.

As to whether you have new parts or not -- check the born-on date (in the oval on the side, near the ejection port.)  The gun could be NIB, but still several years old.

[LuckyPierre]

Well, the "born on" date is '04, so I don't know.

I expect I'll get in touch with the importer to try to get ahold of a new extractor, and see if that works. Sure hope it does.

Cheers,

Pierre

[LuckyPierre]

I've verified that the extractor is the new style, and the FTE problem is becoming unbearable.  1 or 2 times per box of ammo, now.

I'll keep you posted.

[Walt-Sherrill]

What ammo are you using, now?  (The last time out.)

Not just the brand, but weight, fmj, hp, etc.?

Does everything happen in exactly the same way if someone else is shooting the gun.  

(There's always a chance, however slim, that you're doing something, like letting a thumb drag on the slide that's throwing things off...)

Make sure the inside of the chamber is smooth -- no rough spots, gunk, etc.  

Look at the spent cases and see if there are any unusual marks on them.

Do you have a gunsmith nearby?  It may be worth a trip to the gunsmith, to let him check it over.  Those guys often see the simple, obvious things that elude the amateurs like us.  It may also be the cheapest "next" step.

[Radom]

Quote:I'm shooting commercially remanufactured ammo, and getting the odd FTE (2 in 800 rounds).

If this only happens with commercial reloads, then I suspect the ammo.  Are these also mixed headstamps?