97B trigger pull?

[CZattorneyFL]

I'm looking for info on what the 97B DA and SA trigger pulls feel like.  Particularly, I'd like to know if anyone who's done some shooting with an HK USP would compare the trigger feel.  My impression of the USP is that pulling from half-cock wasn't all that smooth, and that there was too much dead pull before the hammer started moving on DA.  The SA felt ok, though.  But I'm hardly an expert, and people seem to think the HK is a great gun, which it definitely is, in many ways.  

Anyway, everyone loves shooting the 97B, so I'd definitely like to hear what the trigger is like, and also if anyone felt the need to get a trigger job, how it went, etc.

Thanks,

Max

[BRASMAN]

Mine is smooth and a bit long like most double action pistols. If you normaly shoot double action you should not have a problem at all. If you are an avid SA only guy you will probably not like it just like you probably would not like most other double action pulls but you can have it converted to SA only. I had a USP in 9mm and it was a good pistol but in my opinion it did not live up to the hype or the price they ask for them now. I do not remeber the trigger that much on my USP so I will say it was probably OK. They 97B is one of the few pistols that I have purchased out of many that has lived up to every thing I heard about it. I had the money to get a USP or a Kimber when I got my 97B and chose it over those and still would. Once again I think the trigger on mine is smooth and a bit long but most double action single action pistol trigger pulls are a bit long. Just my two cents.

I wish CZ made a 97B with a rail, nicer hammer that is eisier to cock with the thumb and stainless steel with all wolf springs from the factory. OOOOOHHHOOOHHOOO.

[Walt-Sherrill]

A spur hammer for the (Retro) CZ-75B, available from CZ, will apparently work in the 97B.  But be warned -- hammer bite is possible.   (Jim Miossi can confirm this, I think.)  The internals of the 75B and 97B are almost identical.

[Fordzilla]

The HK is a DOG compared to the CZ.  The trigger on the 97B is so smooth as to give the illusion that the pull is much lighter than it actually is.  After shooting the 97B, before using a trigger pull scale, I guessed the single action pull was 3.5lbs, and my assistant SWAT commander guessed 4lbs.  The pull scale showed that it was actually 5.5lbs! The pull dropped almost another full pound after a week of shooting and dry firing, now about 4.5lbs.  The double is about 9lbs, the best way to describe the trigger is that the double action is like that of a S&W revolver.  The single action has quite a bit of take-up, but once you reach resistance, the travel is about 1/8 of an inch, and very, very, silky smooth until a clean break.
   I'm a die-hard 1911 guy, and I'm leaving my 1911s in the safe and carrying the 97B for now!

[sanger00verdun]

I understand when someone wants to retain DA, but having converted my 97B to SAO and tweaking the sear a bit, I now have a 2.5# trigger with 3/16" total travel. Sweet.

[Lazarus]

I'm not going to make a comparison to anything else because that's too difficult.  Out-of-the-box triggers are a far cry from what can be done by a skilled gunsmith.  The 97b comes to you from the factory with a safe trigger.  That means that the hammer won't fall unless you are pulling the trigger.  And, it means that the hammer won't follow as the slide cycles.  Beyond that, it is up to you to determine what is desireable and what is possible, without compromising the safety of operation.  

Here is one important point to note about the CZ classic pistol design:  the trigger bar - the thing that moves the sear - is leveraged.  In other words your finger does not directly control the trigger bar.  It is no better or no worse than other types of triggers.  This leverage is the main difference to be aware of, because most other designs that imitate the basic John Browning tipping barrel short recoil principle have a directly controlled trigger bar.  

What it ultimately means is that the CZ trigger design will tend toward the feel of a "rolling break".  Personally, I never fight the design; so my approach is to make the pull as smooth as possible without trying to eliminate "creep".  A nicely smoothed CZ trigger- referring to SA now - has a rolling break.  Adjusting a CZ for a "crisp break" is unnecessary, and it is asking for trouble in my personal opinion.

There is a lot more to a trigger pull than just the number of pounds of force you apply.

-Lazarus

[Walt-Sherrill]

Lot of good points there.  

One cavaet: Jim Miossi has the jigs that let him tune the hammer/sear to give a glass-like single action break in the 75B guns, and I've got several that were done that way by other gunsmiths.  And I've also got a Sphinx and a custom AT-84S that are very, very nice.

CZ-design guns do have a LONG Double Action trigger and the leverage is obvious.

[Alex45ACP]

Putting the gun in DA mode with the safety off seems kind of dangerous.  How do you put the hammer down on a loaded chamber 100% safely?

[Lazarus]

Alex,
You have it backwards.  If the gun is in Double Action mode...i.e. the hammer is down...then you do not need a safety, since the gun is not cocked and ready to fire. The 97b designers got this part right.  The 97b safety is a Single Action safety that can be engaged when the hammer is cocked.  At that time the safety blocks the single action sear, a part that is not used during a double action shot.

Having said that, other manufacturers have gone to great extremes in their quest to satisfy the ignorant enemies of gun ownership.  Both S&W and Beretta pistols (out of the box) can be put on safe with the hammer down.  Neither pistol can be put on safe in single action mode (the true use of such a safety) - imagine that!  A little reflection should tell you that a gun in such condition is actually less "safe" because it is likely NOT to fire when needed.  Beretta does sell the alternative pistol called a "G" pistol that has a decock only feature.  S&W will modify their pistols at your expense to decock only.  My opinion is that the more gimmicks, the more likely you are to screw up under stress.  Heck, the more likely you are to screw up at an absent-minded moment also!!  If you are one of those who can't have enough safety features on the gun, I recommend bowling as a possible alternative sport.
-Lazarus

[Walt-Sherrill]

Interestingly, EAA-made clones and some other variants of the CZ design have safeties that work in hammer down mode.  My DaeWoo DH-40's safety works in all modes, too.

Talk about dumb: I've seen Glocks modified to have safeties, too.

IIf you just have to have a safety work in a DA/SA gun with hammer down, why wouldn't you want the same in a DAO gun?  But NONE of DAO guns I've seen or owned have safeties.  That includes a couple I own right now: a S&W 4043 and a Kahr P9.  CZ's DAO guns don't have safeties, either.

[Alex45ACP]

What I mean is when you chamber a round, the hammer is cocked... how do you lower it with a 0% chance of a AD?

[Walt-Sherrill]

If you're uncomfortable decocking, use two hands:  one to work the trigger, the other to work the hammer, using the off hand to control the hammer and allowing it to drop slowly.

Note: once the hammer has started to move, you can release the trigger -- and as the trigger goes forward, the firing pin block is activated.

Some folks do it differently, and put their offhand thumb between hammer and firing pin and then lower the hammer with the strong hand, while pulling the trigger.  The thumb will keep the hammer from engaging the firing pin.

As long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction -- always a critical matter -- the worst that could happen if you did something stupid, is a little embarrassment.  At the range, nobody would know the difference.

This is a basic gun handling skill, and its something you can practice with an empty gun -- and should.