Author Topic: Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...  (Read 3752 times)

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Offline bylogic

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« on: May 11, 2005, 07:50:24 PM »
Hi,

Get my new CZ97B, and try it today.

Great accuracy, mild recoil, with CCI and Federal ammo.

But one problem made me mad, every 2 or 3 rounds, when a round fired, cannot feed the next round, and the magazine drop, but not completely.:rolleyes  

During the action, I am sure that I didn't push the mag release.

I noticed, when I push mag release button, the mag doesn't pop out a bit, is that a problem?

What can I do something to remedy that.

Or just I am not lucky to get a lemon...>:  

Thanks.



bylogic

Walt-Sherrill

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2005, 08:31:40 PM »
Sounds like the mag isn't really LOCKING in place.  Remove the grips and look at the mag/slide release and make sure they're mating up properly.   You may have to adjust the notch on the mag.

(Or, it may be a weak mag release spring.)

Offline bylogic

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2005, 02:53:52 PM »
Thanks, Walt Sherrill

I will check it out this weekend.


bylogic

BRASMAN

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2005, 10:31:21 PM »
Please post what you find out. This could be very helpful in the future. :D

Offline bylogic

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2005, 06:27:07 PM »
hi,

today, I tried the second original mag, everything goes well, not even one FTF.

Well, logic tells me that the problem is in the first mag, not in mag release.

I change the wolff spring (+5%) for first mag, still not working, the FTF seen (always?) on the moment when there are 3 round in the mag, but I can not figure out where is the problem, sigh...

Somebody had the same problem?


bylogic

Offline skucera

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2005, 09:48:59 PM »
I'm not going to make any claims about being able to diagnose your problem without ever having seen your gun, but I'm a test engineer, and I spend all day designing tests to find problems.  Maybe I can suggest some things to look at....

First, we know that the first magazine reliably reproduces the problem, which is that every two or three rounds a round fails to feed, and at the same moment your mag appears to partly eject, but not fully until you press the mag release button.  Second, we know that the second magazine works flawlessly.  We also know that a changed spring in the first magazine didn't solve the problem.

We can deduce that the rest of the pistol is not the sole cause of the problem because it too works fine when using the second magazine.  The problem probably lies in a mechanical difference between the first mag and the second, and is probably in the first magazine itself.

I would carefully compare the good mag to the faulty one, and l would focus on searching for any dents or slight differences in alignment between the two.  I would also look at wear on the magazine catch slot, but that seems less likely a cause to me.  My hunch is that one or both feed lips on that mag have been bent slightly inwards, thus forcing cartridges into a slightly lower alignment relative to the slide and the feed ramp.  Experiment with some round-nosed snap caps to see if they're hanging up on the feed ramp more with that bad mag.  I'm still not clear on how the mag is pushed downwards during the jam, but my mind's eye can image the round catching on the underside of the top of the breach, with the slide pressing the tail of the round downward into the magazine, essentially spring-loading it downward against the magazine catch.  (I don't really know if this is what's happening, so correct me if I'm imagining incorrectly.)

Really take your time, and use your pondering chair as you look it over.  Good luck, and let us know what you discover.

Scott

Walt-Sherrill

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2005, 04:14:42 AM »
And I'll be interested to know if the mag catch notches are positioned slightly differently, or slightly differently sized, between the two mags.  If the mag release isn't "clicking" solidly into position, the mag will do what you describe, too.

On the other hand, if they are both factory mags, I'd not worry about the darned thing, call CZ, tell them you have a bad mag, and want it replaced.  I think they'll tell you to send the bad one in, and they will send you a new one, upon receipt.

Offline bylogic

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 04:43:41 PM »
Thanks skucera and Walt, I have to buy some more ammo for testing. I will keep to find out what is wrong.


bylogic

Offline Justice4all

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2005, 10:08:57 PM »
Mine is now doing the same thing with both factory Mec-Gar mags.

I had approx 200 rounds through the gun before this issue.  Basically every one to three rounds fired, the mag drops partially out of the mag well and the next round fails to feed.  So I give the mag a forceful push, insure that I hear a click, and the rack the slide.  Fire a round or two, and the same thing happens again... I then slightly bent one of slots on a mag (the one that engages the lock) and it didn't seem to fix the issue.  In fact the mag fit the well so tightly that the little protrusion I created to catch on the lock actually caused the mag to "drag" in the frame.

The problem happens with both mags.  I inspected, disassembled and cleaned both and found no damage or difference in the mags.  

I then took apart a mag to see just how much of the mag catch protrudes into the mag.  The mag catch does not fit into the entire slot on the mag.  Only the back third of the catch is visible when the mag is "seated".

All of this leads me to believe that it's the catch and not the mags that are the problem.  Though there is the possibility that both mags are bad, in which case I already ordered a couple of replacements to verify.  I went with the Promags from MidwayUSA as they were cheap and easy to get in a hurry.  I'll let you know what I find.

Is anyone else willing to check the fit between the mags and the mag catch?  I will try to post a pic later.


Offline Miossi Gun Works

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2005, 10:13:42 PM »
Is this just occurring with ball ammo or is it a problem with H&G 68 style bullets too?  Try to take 20 or so rounds and with a black maker coat the entire exposed bullet, if the bullet is hitting the mag release it will show a mark.

Also disassemble the magazine down to the tube.  Insert the tube into the frame less the slide and see if the mag catch is protruding too far into the magazine.  It is possible that if it is that it takes 2 or 3 hits from the bullets feeding up to finally make the catch release the mag.

If this is the case the mag catch just needs a little contouring, as in the old days when this was common with non Colt 1911.

Jim

Miossi Gun Works LLC
702 Park Dr
Monticello, IA 52310

Offline Justice4all

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2005, 08:58:10 AM »
Jim, thanks for the reply!

I had already taken the mag apart to verify how far the mag catch protruded into the mag.  I'd say it only protrudes approx. sixty fourth of an inch (less than half a millimeter)  into the mag, and then only the backhalf of the catch is visible.

I also adjusted one of the mags by filing a small amount from the front of the mag catch opening and also pulling out the upper portion of the opening to give it a better purchase on the mag catch.  This seemed to do the trick and I fired fifty rounds through it without issue.  The other factory mag still dropped every one or two rounds.  This was all with ball ammo.

So, I either have two bad factory mags, a mishaped mag catch or a combination of both that cause a tolerance stack up and drops the mag.  Hopefully the two Promag mags will point to what the actual issue is.  

Replacing the mag catch looks to be a pain with that peened in screw that holds the spring...

Bylogic, any word on your guns issues?


Offline Justice4all

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2005, 02:52:08 PM »
Well, looks like adjusting the upper lips of the mag catch opening and removing material from the front of the opening did the trick.  A few hundred rounds with no problems.

Offline bylogic

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2005, 12:34:55 PM »
Hi justice4all,


Since I use my reload rounds, seen the problem is gone, so I thought it was the question to break out this new gun.

As I reload not hot, that mean's that the problem might still there.

Could you poste the detail for the solution.

Pic will greatly help.

Thanks.


bylogic

Offline Justice4all

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2005, 12:52:09 PM »
Yep, no problem.  I'll get after it tonight!  What style of bullets are you using for your re-loads?  I ask as none of the round ball stuff I fire even comes close to the mag catch opening and thought that the SWC's that most people use to reload would be even further away from the catch.

Oh, and if anyone else is thinking about getting "Pro-Mags" as replacement or supplemental mags, don't.  The quality is much lower, they rattle in the frame of the gun and they also extend from the mag well about 5/16ths of an inch.  Strictly a range/troubleshooting mag in my opinion.

Offline bylogic

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Magazine drop every 2 or 3 round fired...
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2005, 05:43:34 PM »

Hi Justice4all,

I reload my .45ACP: Universal 5.4grain, 230 jacketed RN, OAL 1.250".

Thanks.



bylogic