Cocked & on Safety

[jjkco]

How long can I keep my 97B cocked & on safety? Will this hurt the mechanism?
Thank you.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Indefinitely.  It should not be a problem.  

(Springs are "worn" by being pushed to or past their design limits, and by being "worked".  

Leaving it cocked does neither of these things.)

[jjkco]

Thanks Walt. I appreciate the help.

[Lazarus]

Theoretically, the gun is designed to be "safe" when the hammer is back and the safety is on.  But since this model also features first shot double action, why not use it?

My second point is a practical one.  The tolerances that we've seen from the CZ factory have left a lot to be desired.  Cock the hammer and put the safety on.  Now pull the trigger and observe the considerable movement of the safety lever and sear!!!  With that much sear movement, I wouldn't think of using the cocked and locked mode.  The sear should NOT move with the safety on...period.  

Too bad that CZ doesn't respond to suggestions by customers.  This particular problem would not be difficult to correct.
-Lazarus

[Walt-Sherrill]

Have you EVER heard of a accidental discharge from someone carrying a CZ while cocked and locked?  

Have you ever had the safety release, inadvertently, when it should not have released, on a CZ gun that you were carrying cocked and locked?  (If so, you should examine the safety detent and related spring.)

Sear and safety movement is NOT the same as safety disengagement.

[Kalrog01]

Quote:But since this model also features first shot double action, why not use it?

Because I would have to manually lower the hammer on a live round.  No thanks - at least not on a daily / regular basis.  I really think that manually lowering the hammer is more dangerous than carrying C&L on a gun designed to be safe on C&L carry (like the -97 is).

Besides, it is very nice to have every shot have the exact same trigger pull.

[Walt-Sherrill]

This is a continuing point of contention.

If the gun is pointed in a safe direction -- as it should be when decocking -- the only thing really in danger if you screw up, is your ego.  

FEG has made this point, time and again, and I repeat it in his absence:  decocking a gun is a very basic gun handling skill.  You should be able to do it.  

Folks started doing it with the first black powder revolvers, and still do it with various SA guns.  

Its not rocket science and it really isn't dangerous if you use two hands -- as you should.  (If necessary, put your thumb from the other hand under the hammer as  you lower it.)

Practice some with an empty gun.  

Then you really DO have the option of starting from hammer down or cocked-and-locked.  As it is now, you don't have the option.  Your fear (and I don't know what else to call it, is unfounded and easily overcome.)

[Radom]

I decock all of the CZs one-handed, even the larger 97B.  Assuming a "B" series pistol, these all have a 1) half-cock notch; 2) automatic internal firing ppin block (aka FPB); 3) inertial firing pin spring (aka FPS).  Type A CZ 75/85 series pistols do not have the FPB, but they do have the half-cock notch and FPS.  

Frankly, I don't see how a pistol with the FPB could go off.  Any "drag" on the hammer will decrease the energy of the hammer to the point that it cannot over come the inertia of the FPS.  With the FPB, the trigger has to be almost completely pulled for the block to disengage.  To have an AD when manually decocking, you would have to pull the trigger completely to the rear without touching the hammer.  This is known as "firing" not "decocking."  

This is almost entirely a non-issue.  How many times do people feel the need to chamber a round and lower the hammer in a day?

[KingPolymer-III]

I am glad somebody else had the balls to ask a question thats been on my mind.  LOL.  Thank you.  Glad to know that its not an issue.

[Radom]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, because it's only fun for a few seconds.  You end up feeling sort of hollow...

At any rate, I would like to share a few insights on this whole mess.  I don't carry my 97B, so maybe I am a bit of a hypocrite, but I have carried a 75 and 75 Compact.  

I have always taken the view that a handgun that is readied (Condition 1 or 2) is readied.  In other words, if I don't screw with it, there is no earthly reason that it could have become un-ready, assuming it never left my possession.  In the case of the CZ 97B, the pistol even has a loaded chamber indicator.  

In other words, how many times a week do I really need to monkey with the pistol?  Seriously, I do not intend offense.  However, some people that spend all this energy worrying about manually decocking a pistol should probably just try it.  It's not like you have to decock the pistol dozens of times a day, just asking for trouble...

Decocking is a basic gunhandling skill.  If you think that it is esoteric or foolhardy, then you have no business ever handling any revolver, much less an SA revolver.  If that sounds harsh, think about it.  Someone is basically telling me that decocking a live weapon is inherently dangerous and shouldn't be attempted.  In that case, they are arguing that a cocked revolver (which in all but a few cases cannot be rendered safe, as the cylinder will not move) is safer than lowering the hammer by hand.  That is ridiculous.    

Of course, some may say that we are talking of semi-autos.  By and large, manually decocking a semi-auto is much safer than with a revolver, as they have more safety features.  The only exceptions to this rule are a few isolated models manufactured before WWII.    

In contrast, decockers are mechanical devices, and some are better designed than others.  When a decocker fails, which is unlikely with some designs I admit, nothing good can happen.  Some pistols will fire.  Most will not, but the pistol is rendered inoperable.  Depending on the situation, choose your poison.      

Short explanation:  A decocking lever does something that I can do for myself and ought to be able to do, i.e. decock my own pistol.  A manual Browning-type safety does something that I cannot do for myself, i.e. render the pistol safe with a cocked hammer.

[KingPolymer-III]

Excellent info , thanks for sharing,  It all makes sense,  I am exceedingly familiar with the operation of 1911/Moses Browning type pistols, its just that 90% of my handgun armory is polymer based interior/striker fired /polymer framed pistols, so its not an issue for me with a Glock or a Springfield XD, since ,  I am just slightly paranoid and worry by nature, so exterior or exposed hammers are somewhat of a departure from what I am usued to on an every day basis.  
  My friends tell me that I have obsessive compulsive dissorders since after eating I have to IMMEDIATLY wash the dishes before watching tv or doing anything else and when I get home from the range, I have to IMMEDIATLY clean my guns.
  For me its not a matter of not understanding the mechanics or safety, its more of a departure from your traditional comfort zone.  
  The reason I love the Springfield XD, even more so than a Glock is because of the loader chamber indicator in conjunction with the grip safety.
  My favorite decocker is the P95 Ruger so far ; its the only decocker that I have practiced with extensively. Here are both guns for comparison.

[BRASMAN]

Ditto on the breaking from tradition. I started with double action pistols so it makes sense to me to use the first double action shot. However if you can not hit beans with it you might as well not carry it. I am just getting to the point where I would carry my 1911 with the hammer back. I know it is safe it is just a mental thing. If I carry my P01 it will definantly be half cocked. I carry an XD or a Glock 19 though normaly.

[Walt-Sherrill]

With the P-01, half-cocked is where the gun was designed to be carried.  You could lower it all the way down, but that makes no sense.  

With the Glock and XD, do you really have any other choice except the way they were designed to be carried?  (For the XD that's a serious question; for the Glock I know the answer.)  

I'm not familiar with the XD, but the Glock can only be carried one way when there's a round in the chamber: semi-cocked.  

The striker is partially loaded when the slide is moved (as when a new round is loaded), and pulling the trigger completes the striker loading and releases it.  The partially loaded striker can only be released through pulling the trigger.  It can't be decocked -- except by pulling the trigger.

[BRASMAN]

Thanks Walt. I knew that is how it worked and that just goes to show you how sometimes we let preconcieved notions hold us back.