Lead Squib x 2

[Riptide439]

I can't figure out if I am very frustrated or just bummed out.
Went to the indoor range tonight with Berry's 100 - 115 RN, 50 - 124 FP, and 100 -  125 LNR.
Pulled out the 75B and ran 20 of each of the above. Loaded another 10 of the 125 LRN (Because they were nice and soft) and on the 6th round, instead of Boom - it was Poof - SQUIB!!!!!

Bummer!!!

Well - no rod to clean it out the squib so I just switched to the P07. (Love the P07) 20 rounds of the 115gr, 20 rounds of the 124gr, and on the second set of 10 with the 125LRN - 16th shot - Another Poof  - SQUIB!!!!    They are loaded with 4.2 of 4756; which by the way was producing 3" groups at 10 yards with prior shots.

Do my CZ's not like the number 6? I am having a bourbon!

But seriously, what should I look for as the problem with the other 58 loaded 125gr LRP?

[harkamus]

Are you sure you charged that case? I'm betting you forgot to charge it. Nevermind that though, it's more important that you recognized the squib and didn't continue firing. I had a squib loading .45 once. Fortunately for me, I carry a dowel rod with me that I used to pop the bullet out of the barrel. Continued shooting after that. Haven't had a squib no-charge since. I carry a dowel rod at all times because my snap caps tend to get stuck in the the chamber. They are turned down aluminum Azoom snap caps; I turned down the rim so that the rounds don't eject when I rack the slide. I have sets of snap caps for standard drills and sets that are just meant for practicing which have the rim turned down so the extractor claw doesn't grab on to them. These are the ones that get stuck in the chamber necessitating the dowel rod.

[Wobbly]

Squibs are caused most often by no powder being inside the case. Rarely it's too little powder. Rarer still is a bad primer.

Typically with new reloaders [especially those with notations in the PIA column  ], they are new to their equipment and stopping to do "safety checks" too much. 'Stopping' is not part of the process plan, and so pieces get left out when things switch back to startup. One of those things is remembering to put powder in the case.

? I would suggest that if you feel compelled to measure your powder, then take a fired case and let the powder measure dump 100 loads into the case, then measure the weight of each one.
? If you feel the need to check OAL, then do it after all the reloading is finished. You can ALWAYS send auto pistol cartridges back though to shorten them up a bit.
? Check primer seating after you pile them into the ammo box, nose down.

These practical steps will allow you to go from 'start' to 'finish' without interruption. Interruption is the bane of reloaders, even if it's for a "safety check".

 

[Riptide439]

Well I just got the squibs out of both barrels. WOW they were JAMMED! Thought they would not come out.
Completely past the landing into the rifling by 1/4". Would a round with no paoder be this hard to remove?

Powder measure was not moved since I loaded last night - 4.2 on the nose!
Push test yielded:
   75B - 1.63
   P-07 - 1.68
Measured all remaining lead rounds and they range from 1.46 to 1.52
Dropped each into a Wilson case Gauge and all dropped fine.
Primer seating on balance looked fine - one or 2 maybe a smidge high.

So why would the jacketed rounds work just fine and the lead rounds squib??

Ohhh - Does this put me back up to 3 notations in the moderators log? 

[harkamus]

Would a round with no paoder be this hard to remove?

Yes, they would be. The bullet obturates (I think this is the correct term, though someone correct me if I'm wrong) when it enters the rifling, meaning it actually gets squished a little. Try it and see. Take just a bullet (no case, primer, just the actual projectile) and drop it down a barrel. I bet you it won't come out the other end. When the bullet gets fired and enters the rifling, it conforms.

[johnnyrees]

You're lucky in more than one way...its only the lead rounds that have been squibs....put them under the hammer and start again..perhaps you were not paying attention doing that batch....KINECTIC HAMMER

[Wobbly]

So, Mr Tide. I take it that you really want some help with this issue and are not not simply seeking some brothers to cry along with you in your beer. That is to say, now that you know most probably what happened, you might want to follow up and learn how it happened.

Because some of us (who choose to remain anonymous) have 2 checks in the "forgetful" column, why don't you simply list out your equipment again, along with a brief description of your reloading process. That way we can actually help. You see, the equipment pretty much dictates the process. So that even though the end product is the same, if you have Press A you might be handling each cartridge 4 times, whereas with Press B you might have a more automated process. Press C might be something in between those 2.

Or, in the other case, you could actually mail us each a beer. We can go that way too. I'm completely flexible on this issue. But, as I hope you can understand, without some details, this thread is going to leave us all fairly thirsty.

In the interim, let me que some appropriately sad music....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOZ4p0yHT28


Your thirsty pal. 

[FireMoose]

Are you batch loading or on a turret/progo?


Is it even possible for a squib to cycle the slide?

Sent from my CZ85 Combat

[Riptide439]

Hear is the confusing part to me.
After firing it was a very smokey and dirty and it felt & sounded like a normal shot with less kick.
The slide cycled but the next round would not enter the chamber.
Would primer only be that smokey?

[Riptide439]

I believe it was no powder and primer only.
Lube is still in the grove.

And yes - I was pulled away and stopped my process 2 times during powder drops.
I flash light my trays prior to placing the bullet but must have missed 2. I need to meditate on when I was pulled away and what I did or didn't do.

The only other distractions in the room was the radio playing Bubba Shot the Jukebox. Maybe I should only listen to that song loading .45's 

Is it worth firing a powderless round to see if it has the same feel?

[Riptide439]

OK - Driving to work I think I found one! (In my head at least)
I pulled one primed case prior to powder to set up seating depth.
I was pulled away after I started seating just a few and had the powderless cartridge on the bench. I did not pull it apart and I must have mixed it with the others.
Lesson Learned - Pull Apart test rounds ASAP!

Now for the next one...

[Wobbly]

Hear is the confusing part to me. After firing it was a very smokey and dirty and it felt & sounded like a normal shot with less kick. The slide cycled but the next round would not enter the chamber. Would primer only be that smokey?

"Smokey" is an awfully subjective term. Exactly how will you measure "smokey-ness".

I believe it was no powder and primer only. Lube is still in the grove.
Is it worth firing a powderless round to see if it has the same feel?

"Same feel" ? Exactly how do you intend to measure "feel" ? Furthermore, what possible good come come from such an exercise ?

Root cause analysis tells us the most likely cause, based on historical evidence. If you intend to make a new hobby from wasting primers on no-firing cartridges, then be my guest. But you'll be knocking another bullet out of the barrel (which you didn't like) and still be no closer to solving the mystery of how this event happened.

I pulled one primed case prior to powder to set up seating depth.
I was pulled away after I started seating just a few and had the powderless cartridge on the bench. I did not pull it apart and I must have mixed it with the others.
Lesson Learned - Pull Apart test rounds ASAP!

That's not absolute. It can still happen again. You can't come back 3 days later and tell active rounds from "test cartridges".

Try this: Do your bullet seating tests in cases that don't have primers. You'll be able to spot them a year later.

 

[Riptide439]

Grasshopper still has much to learn Master!

[SMSgt]

So why would the jacketed rounds work just fine and the lead rounds squib??

Bullet types do NOT cause squibs; no powder/defective powder does. My thinking is that IF the powder were defective, you'd have problems with all the reloads.

You've declined to say how you're reloading (equipment, etc.), but all my reloading, lead or jacketed--rifle, pistol & shotgun, is done on a single-stage press. I prime all the cases I intend to reload, I dump powder in all the cases I intend to load, I inspect the powder levels in all the cases, and I seat bullets in all the cases.

Slow? To some, maybe. But in all the reloading I've done since 1975, I've had zero squibs, one weather-related shotshell "fizzle" and two dud primers--both from the same pack of primers. I have no idea of how many rounds I've reloaded, but I was a very active shooter back in the day, so the number of rounds is quite high. Reliablilty has never been an issue.

Whatever equipment you're using, I suggest you take a few minutes to review your reloading process.

[Riptide439]

Lee Single Stage Press with an RCBS powder measure.
I use 2 Franklin trays to hold the shells during powder drop.
The 4756 @ 4.2gr fills the case to about 70%. Check each tray with flash light.
Load 100 per sitting - takes about an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and thirty with no interruptions.

Here are the steps:
1. De-prime & Size
2. Expander Die & Prime with Lee Safety Prime
3. Powder Drop - all cases in tray
4. Check with flashlight
5. Set bullets on all cases with powder
6. Seater Die
7. Taper crimp

I KNOW I did not take apart the one I seated as a test round. (No primer next time) The second one I think was just a missed case during powder drop.
I think the 2 interruptions during this process is what distracted me.