Full Length Guide Rod.

[cheechako77]

I was looking at replacing my 40P's plastic guide rod with a metal one, and while I got a lot of good information here in the forum regarding that subject, I decided to email CSUSA to ask what they had to say about it.  However, I found the answer I got a little confusing, so thought I'd see if anyone wanted to offer me their opinion on the subject.

Specifically I asked CZ about replacing the original rod with a full length metal one, because it seemed that owners in here advocated replacing the spring too, and that when they did so they went to a full length rod.   Yet, the answer I got from CZ was simply, we don't recommend doing that.  Period.  No explaination at all.  

Could it be that they are concerned about liability?  That if they recommend doing so and something happens they could be sued?  That's one thing that comes to mind in this mixed up lawyer top heavy world of ours, but did wonder if there might be some other reason as well.   Any thoughts?  

Thanks.

[cheechako77]

Oh, and by the way.  Does anyone have the exact length of a full lenght rod.  One that will be flush with the end of the slide?

Thanks

[EZ CZ75]

You are correct in your assumptions.  The 40P is like any other manufactured piece of equipment except this one tends to have the capacity for some very sever physical harm if something happens.  There is a very low probability that anything would happen by changing out the guide rod, but the factory testing did not include that.  Believe me, everything that is routinely used to build the pistol is documented, charted, measure, remeasured, tested, statistically proven and then many times over again.  Statistically, your pistol shouldn't fail until x amount of rounds or time.  Change anything about it and the statistics are worthless and every lawyer knows it.

[Walt-Sherrill]

CZ has explained, in the past, why they "don't recommend that."

The 40P uses the alloy frame of the PO1.  CZ does not recommend the use of steel guide rods in their alloy-framed guns, but think they're fine in their steel-framed guns.

I've posted this comment from CZ a number of times, generally to great derision.

Get a metal guide rod if you think it really matters; there has been no sign of excessive wear, etc.  The guide rod steel is, in effect, harder than the steel in the frame (and, perhaps, slide.)

I've got CZs and clones with full-length guide rods, metal guide rods, and plastic guide rods, and I can't see that a full-length guide rod does a bleep thing to make the gun shoot better.  It can make it feel better/smoother when hand cycling.

[cheechako77]

Thanks for the replys, its greatly appreciated.   As far as wanting a full length guide, I thought I had read that in replacing the original spring with a stronger one, that the full length guide was more desireable.   Of course whether or not that also is true is likely debatable.   Whatever I choose to do of course is as yet decided, but only know for sure that I think the 40P is a fine looking pistol and is worth more then what I had to pay for it.

From the frozzen north land, thanks again.

[Jeff Bergquist]

I am one who believes a full length guide rod is necessary if you change the recoil spring to a wire one from the flat coil one that came with the 40P. The stock plastic rod is the one originally used in the PCR and P-01 and is thus not full length for the longer 40P slide. This isn't important with the stock spring because the wide flat coils keep the rod centered so it goes easily through the hole in the front of the slide on recoil or when racking. A wire coil spring has too much play in it though, so that the plastic rod will get crunched if it gets a bend or otherwise doesn't line up with the hole in the slide.

I was an early purchaser of the 40P, and so when I wanted to replace the recoil spring with a stronger one I decided then that I needed a FLGR for the reasons stated above. At that time no one was making aftermarket rods for this pistol, and we had no storehouse of knowledge concerning making your own. So I ordered a stainless 40B guide rod from CZUSA and made it fit the 40P by turning down the rod's head to the right diameter to fit the smaller lugs in the 40P/P-01's frame. Worked perfectly.

CZUSA may not now recommend steel rods for the alloy framed pistols, but it's interesting to remember that the alloy framed 40B came stock with a steel guide rod.

[KenJones]

My 40-P experienced FTFs from the start and got worse as more rounds were shot.  That's how I found this forum, I was looking for help.  Someone mentioned that their guide rod was bent.  The next time I cleaned the gun, I examined mine.  It looked like a warped banana.  After talking to my gun shop, I ordered the MSC injection pin.  While waiting for it to arrive (it took a whole 3 days!) I disassembled, cleaned and lubed my mags.  That seemed to help for a while, but when the FTFs returned, I again re-exaimined the plastic rod.  Bent again!  When the injection pins arrived, I immediately cut one to length and have had NO FTFs since.  I believe that the feeding of blunt point ammo is marginal, and that there are several issues that can cause FTFs:
1. Magazines must be clean, lubed and properly assembled.  (Make sure that the top of the spring pushes against the front.)
2. The guide rod must not bind against the spring or the slide.  (My problem)
3. Blunt nosed ammunition will FTF much more ofter than round or conical shaped projectiles.
4. Weak magazine or recoil springs may contribute, but those that came with my gun are not a problem.

My shooting buddy has a 40 caliber model 229 Sig which cost twice the price of my 40P, and mine groups better and feels better to shoot.  I have heard that the Sig has a better trigger feel, but I can't tell.  Now that it feeds reliably, I wouldn't trade.  Good luck and good shooting!
 

[sprscientist]

Ken,

Welcome to the forum.  funny you mention that your groupings with your 40P are better than with a sig.  That was my exact experience also with my cz's compared to my sigs, thus I sold my sigs.  With my CZ 75B stainless my groupings are even better.  About a silver dollar sized ragged hole at 10 yrds.  Just freakin awesome pistols for the dollar (my experience anyway).

[cheechako77]

Thanks again for all the replys.  Saw again that someone had problems with FTFs.  I was very happy to find that the first 150 rounds went through my 40P without a problem.  Those were cheap "remanufactured" rounds, and then bought the bulk UNCs.   First 50 or so I had 5/6 FTFs.  So took it home and polished the feed ramp, and since then no problems at all.  Anxious to try some hollow point to see how those work.

One other question though.  I know some have bought Wolf springs to replace the originals, and was wondering what weight seems to work best?  I found they make them in 18,20, and 22 lbs so was curious what everyone else is using.

From the Last Frontier...thanks.

[EZ CZ75]

I think mine has a 20# spring.  Pretty stiff to me, but even my light plinking loads cycle reliably through it.  I do have some problems with the slide not locking back but I believe it is due to the new bushing being a little longer than needed.  I still need to cut a little bit more off.

Where are you located?  I am assuming somewhere in Alaska or the space station.

[cheechako77]

Although I am sure at times my wife wishes I were in space, I am located in Fairbanks, Alaska and so she's stuck with me!  Transplanted from Michigan 18 years ago, with Arizona the next stop.  

Thanks for the information on the spring.  I haven't had any problems with the slide locking, and again last night went down and shot another 50 rounds or so through it and no feeding problems.  It is a very nice weapon.  Hopefully will be picking up a spring here shortly and we'll see how thing progress

From the Last Frontier, take care.

[EZ CZ75]

I live just down the road a bit in Valdez.  I just moved here last fall from Utah.  Would you happen to know if there is any IDPA or IPSC shooting in Fairbanks.  I am itching to go to another shoot.
Thanks from just down the road and a little warmer than you

[cheechako77]

Very small world for sure isn't it.  

Not sure how much warmer you are then us as we've had temps in the high 20s to low 30s past few days, with even some low 40s reported in the hill surrounding Fairbanks.

I haven't anything posted in way of shoots at the at the Fish and Game range, but I'll be glad to check it out for you over the weekend and post here.  I've been away from shooting for years, but decided to start up again as I needed something else to do during the winter.  Question is though, what does one do when they get older and start seeing three or four sets of sights?  Its getting frustrating trying to figure which ones to use while taking aim!!  Seriously though, short of lazer surgery what does one do?  Really gets embarrasing listening to the laughter coming from the adjoining lanes.  

Take care and hope you have a good weekend.

From the Last Frontier.