New to handguns and CZs

[FutureSailor]

Hello everyone, I recently put a lovely P-07 in .40 s&w on layaway at a local gun store. Anyways, I am wondering is there anything that I should look out for? How long is the break in period for a P-07? Am I a fool for getting a s&w .40 for my first gun?

Also any info on maintaining a P-07 and general info would also be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all in advance.

[JimThornTX]

1.) Make sure it's the "B" serial number model. There are known problems with the "A" serial number P-07 in 40S&W.

2.) Have you ever shot a 40S&W before? It's a pretty snappy round. The recoil is more harsh than a 45ACP. Takes a little getting used to, but a fun round to shoot. At least it is to me. I don't own a P-07 but I do own a P-06 40S&W and a Sig Sauer SP2022 40S&W. Did own a Glock 23 40S&W once but sold it because the recoil was just too much for me to enjoy (Glocks are lighter than other handguns, even other polymer handguns).

[FutureSailor]

I have shot 9mm, .357 mag, 41 mag and 45acp. Yet to shoot a .40 s&w. The only one I had a bit of trouble with was the 41.

[IDescribe]

Was the .45 you shot steel or polymer?

[Sikiguya]

Magazines...you should look out for magazines.  Pricy from CZ...and hard to find on second market.

[designman]

If you get the P-07 in .40 s&w get a gun with the "B" prefix serial number and you'll be in good shape.
I gut one of the early ones and had some trouble with it, but loved the gun. I do have (2) like new
CZ brand (12 round) .40 s&w P-07 mags that I'll sell you for half price. Just let me know if you need them.

[FutureSailor]

Was the .45 you shot steel or polymer?

Steel in sub compact.

[IDescribe]

Was the .45 you shot steel or polymer?

Steel in sub compact.

Okay, don't sweat the .40 recoil.  .40S&W doesn't actually have more recoil than a .45.  That's one of those "widely known facts" that isn't quite true.  You will get people to say that the .45 recoils less, and I think the most common thing you will hear people say is that the .40 is sharper or snappier while the .45 "is more of a slow push."  That is so widely said and believed because it IS in fact widely experienced, but that's only because .45 is most often shot from a 2.5 pound all metal 1911 while .40's are most often shot from a 1.4/1.5 pound polymer-framed gun.  Bullets don't recoil against your hand.  Guns recoil against your hand, and the weight of the gun is HUGE in mitigating that energy, so talking about how much a caliber recoils doesn't really work because it's different in different pistols.  And that's not to mention the differences in grip angle, grip shape, bore axis, spring weights, etc., etc.. 

An average 180 grain .40S&W shot out of a 1.5 pound Glock 22 has about 30% more recoil energy than an average 230 grain .45 shot out of a 2.5 pound 1911, but that same .40 out of the same gun has about 25% less recoil energy than the same .45 shot out of a 1.6 pound Glock 21.  If you get the gun weights about the same, the .45 recoils harder than the .40.  In your case, the compact .45 you have fired probably weighed 1.5/1.6 pounds while the CZ P-07 weighs 1.7, which means that your future CZ P-07 in .40 will recoil less than the .45 you have already fired.

Is .40 too much?  It's not so strong as to be unpleasant.  It's not too strong to have extended practice periods with.  It's not as pleasant as the 9mm (because 9mm is a kitten), but it's not unmanageable.  If you feel more comfortable with the extra energy of a .40 for home defense, that comfort is valuable, and I would say stick with the .40.  I am more comfortable with the extra rounds you get out of a 9mm, but that's me.  Also, this is all based on your being the shooter.  If you have a wife or girlfriend or child who might be shooting it, as well, .40 still isn't out of control, but I would at that point switch my suggestion to 9mm because it's likely the extra recoil would make a difference to them.

[NRA1945]

Was the .45 you shot steel or polymer?

Steel in sub compact.

Okay, don't sweat the .40 recoil.  .40S&W doesn't actually have more recoil than a .45.  That's one of those "widely known facts" that isn't quite true.  You will get people to say that the .45 recoils less, and I think the most common thing you will hear people say is that the .40 is sharper or snappier while the .45 "is more of a slow push."  That is so widely said and believed because it IS in fact widely experienced, but that's only because .45 is most often shot from a 2.5 pound all metal 1911 while .40's are most often shot from a 1.4/1.5 pound polymer-framed gun.  Bullets don't recoil against your hand.  Guns recoil against your hand, and the weight of the gun is HUGE in mitigating that energy, so talking about how much a caliber recoils doesn't really work because it's different in different pistols.  And that's not to mention the differences in grip angle, grip shape, bore axis, spring weights, etc., etc.. 

An average 180 grain .40S&W shot out of a 1.5 pound Glock 22 has about 30% more recoil energy than an average 230 grain .45 shot out of a 2.5 pound 1911, but that same .40 out of the same gun has about 25% less recoil energy than the same .45 shot out of a 1.6 pound Glock 21.  If you get the gun weights about the same, the .45 recoils harder than the .40.  In your case, the compact .45 you have fired probably weighed 1.5/1.6 pounds while the CZ P-07 weighs 1.7, which means that your future CZ P-07 in .40 will recoil less than the .45 you have already fired.

Is .40 too much?  It's not so strong as to be unpleasant.  It's not too strong to have extended practice periods with.  It's not as pleasant as the 9mm (because 9mm is a kitten), but it's not unmanageable.  If you feel more comfortable with the extra energy of a .40 for home defense, that comfort is valuable, and I would say stick with the .40.  I am more comfortable with the extra rounds you get out of a 9mm, but that's me.  Also, this is all based on your being the shooter.  If you have a wife or girlfriend or child who might be shooting it, as well, .40 still isn't out of control, but I would at that point switch my suggestion to 9mm because it's likely the extra recoil would make a difference to them.

Excellent post! I too questioned whether the .40 recoiled more the the .45 when I saw that.

Regarding calibers, I'm no expert, but the various Police Depts. that use the .40S&W are, and they must have decided on that round for a good reason.

I'd be more concerned that the OP gets a good P-07 in that caliber that functions properly after seeing the malfunctions on Nutnfancy's YouTube video review.

[FutureSailor]

Yeah I saw the FTF in the reviews and that scared me a bit. I am planning on putting around 200 rounds through it my first outing (making a day of it). I will post pics of the targets after the 1st.

[JimThornTX]

Okay, don't sweat the .40 recoil.  .40S&W doesn't actually have more recoil than a .45.

Felt recoil is relative to the shooter. Recoil can also vary depending on the handgun.

Based on pure feel my Springfield XD-45 polymer does not kick as hard as my CZ P-06 aluminum alloy or my SIG SP2022 polymer. And my former Glock 23 polymer (sold it due to the recoil) kicked even harder than my CZ and my SIG. Again, this is felt (perceived) recoil. The actual numbers may tell a different story. I think it's due to the snappy kick of 40 vs the slow push of a 45.

Recoil numbers per http://www.genitron.com/Search-Handguns/ -- the higher the number, the more recoil the gun has.

Springfield XD-45 =   8.26 ft-lb

CZ P-06 = 7.40 ft-lb

SIG SP2022 = 7.05 ft-lb

Glock 23 = 10.11 ft-lb

Of these four pistols, the polymer Glock 23 40S&W does have more recoil than the polymer XD 45ACP.

[IDescribe]

Of these four pistols, the polymer Glock 23 40S&W does have more recoil than the polymer XD 45ACP.

Right.  And that makes perfect sense.   Glock 23 is 1.33 pounds.  Full size XD-45 weighs 2 pounds.   A 50% weight increase will bring down recoil in a big way.  Looking up the weight of the XD-45 also tells me why that gun is such a pleasure to shoot.   

For the record, I did run numbers through a recoil calculator before posting.  I have also fired the 9mm, .40, and .45 side by side by side in the same platform twice -- once with full-sized M&P's, once with full-sized Glocks.  When the guns are within an ounce or two of each other, it plays out like the numbers say they should.

I'll also throw in that a proper grip and stance help mitigate the feel and effects of recoil.  So get some pointers from an expert, even if that expert is on Youtube. 

[FutureSailor]

Of these four pistols, the polymer Glock 23 40S&W does have more recoil than the polymer XD 45ACP.

Right.  And that makes perfect sense.   Glock 23 is 1.33 pounds.  Full size XD-45 weighs 2 pounds.   A 50% weight increase will bring down recoil in a big way.  Looking up the weight of the XD-45 also tells me why that gun is such a pleasure to shoot.   

For the record, I did run numbers through a recoil calculator before posting.  I have also fired the 9mm, .40, and .45 side by side by side in the same platform twice -- once with full-sized M&P's, once with full-sized Glocks.  When the guns are within an ounce or two of each other, it plays out like the numbers say they should.

I'll also throw in that a proper grip and stance help mitigate the feel and effects of recoil.  So get some pointers from an expert, even if that expert is on Youtube. 

Just watched all of Hickok45's stance, trigger and grip videos. I think I should be okay.

[muggia59]

That guy is simply amazing. Gun companies send him free guns! Receives free ammo and gives a few plugs on youtube for it. Awesome little range. Talk about living the American Dream. My hat is off to you Mr 45.

[Quakertown]

Was the .45 you shot steel or polymer?

Steel in sub compact.

Okay, don't sweat the .40 recoil.  .40S&W doesn't actually have more recoil than a .45.  That's one of those "widely known facts" that isn't quite true.  You will get people to say that the .45 recoils less, and I think the most common thing you will hear people say is that the .40 is sharper or snappier while the .45 "is more of a slow push."  That is so widely said and believed because it IS in fact widely experienced, but that's only because .45 is most often shot from a 2.5 pound all metal 1911 while .40's are most often shot from a 1.4/1.5 pound polymer-framed gun.  Bullets don't recoil against your hand.  Guns recoil against your hand, and the weight of the gun is HUGE in mitigating that energy, so talking about how much a caliber recoils doesn't really work because it's different in different pistols.  And that's not to mention the differences in grip angle, grip shape, bore axis, spring weights, etc., etc.. 

An average 180 grain .40S&W shot out of a 1.5 pound Glock 22 has about 30% more recoil energy than an average 230 grain .45 shot out of a 2.5 pound 1911, but that same .40 out of the same gun has about 25% less recoil energy than the same .45 shot out of a 1.6 pound Glock 21.  If you get the gun weights about the same, the .45 recoils harder than the .40.  In your case, the compact .45 you have fired probably weighed 1.5/1.6 pounds while the CZ P-07 weighs 1.7, which means that your future CZ P-07 in .40 will recoil less than the .45 you have already fired.

Is .40 too much?  It's not so strong as to be unpleasant.  It's not too strong to have extended practice periods with.  It's not as pleasant as the 9mm (because 9mm is a kitten), but it's not unmanageable.  If you feel more comfortable with the extra energy of a .40 for home defense, that comfort is valuable, and I would say stick with the .40.  I am more comfortable with the extra rounds you get out of a 9mm, but that's me.  Also, this is all based on your being the shooter.  If you have a wife or girlfriend or child who might be shooting it, as well, .40 still isn't out of control, but I would at that point switch my suggestion to 9mm because it's likely the extra recoil would make a difference to them.

Did you know that 98.7% of all posts quoting percentages are made up?
Anyway, I've shot 40's in polymer and all steel, and 45acp's in both as well. 40 DOES have more felt recoil that 45's, at least in standard factory ammo.  Think about it. The 40 is traveline quite a bit faster than the 45 and not much less in weight. I wanted to like the 40, tried it in two different guns and could not get fast accurate follow-up shots consistently so I sold them.