Author Topic: Random thoughts - stocking up?  (Read 8597 times)

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Offline armoredman

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Random thoughts - stocking up?
« on: October 15, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »
 No, not the stuff for the Zombie Apocalypse, but for far more real events, hurricane, flood, other types of disasters that interrupt food supplies, power supplies and other luxuries of civilization we have grown so accustomed to over the years. Food, well, it was explained to me, is easy, even on a budget - one can of canned meat, bag of rice, other long term staple, just one or two, every shopping trip. Get a plastic big, tote, movable box, and start filling it. At the end of a year, you have a lot more food items than you thought was possible. You want to have the basics stashed, food, water, shelter, medical, energy - if you can. I'f seen cell phone chargers that work on small solar cells. Given the number of games, books music and other items to wile the time away that can be stored on a modern smart phone, this might be a good idea, even if service is interrupted, especially if you have children. Also solar chargers exist for almost all other portable batteries nowadays, which could provide for a host of things if you don't want to dip into store energy supplies.
Just some random thought.

NRA1945

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 11:42:42 PM »
No, not the stuff for the Zombie Apocalypse, but for far more real events, hurricane, flood, other types of disasters that interrupt food supplies, power supplies and other luxuries of civilization we have grown so accustomed to over the years. Food, well, it was explained to me, is easy, even on a budget - one can of canned meat, bag of rice, other long term staple, just one or two, every shopping trip. Get a plastic big, tote, movable box, and start filling it. At the end of a year, you have a lot more food items than you thought was possible. You want to have the basics stashed, food, water, shelter, medical, energy - if you can. I'f seen cell phone chargers that work on small solar cells. Given the number of games, books music and other items to wile the time away that can be stored on a modern smart phone, this might be a good idea, even if service is interrupted, especially if you have children. Also solar chargers exist for almost all other portable batteries nowadays, which could provide for a host of things if you don't want to dip into store energy supplies.
Just some random thought.
Walkie-Talkies, 2-way radios, flashlights, all kinds of stuff may be needed. Your needs may differ greatly if your urban or rural. I'm urban, so just having at a month or more worth of stuff is realistic for me. Because I'm urban, and not living in the greatest area known to man, I feel I need more SD guns, ammo, bullet-proof vests, etc. then someone rural may need. No telling when a tribe of bad guys who want your stuff start surrounding your house.

If things are so bad they're not improving within a month, and assuming I'm still alive and healthy, I will take what and who I can with me and try to flee and hook up with some like-minded tribe elsewhere.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:07:43 AM by NRA1945 »

AdamSmith22134

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 12:33:18 AM »
In California (the CCP), our regular disasters tend to be flooding in places during the annual winter rains, wildfires in the forests and hills during the regular hot dry summers, and the occasional big earthquakes, in that order of regularity.

Here, you really need a medium sized backpack for every person with 3 day's food, water, TP, soap, toothpaste, washrag, and deodorant.  Also sneakers.  Those are critical items.  Most people have something like that ready to go at home.  Some people keep it in their car.  Some really well prepared people also have a kit like this at work as well.

For us the main issue is normally sheltering in place if possible, or evacuation if necessary.  Flooding and fires normally warrant evacuation unfortunately.  If you can shelter in place in your home, then you have access to all your regular food supplies, and all you need in addition is a camp stove and matches and fuel for it, or you can siphon gas out of your car for the stove, if it will take it.

For sheltering in place, it is worth it to have a stashed water supply in jugs of some kind.  These can also be grabbed on your way out if you need to evacuate.  I have found that it takes 1 gallon of water per day for me for drinking and washing.  I store tap water in jugs, and I use a big backpacking water filter to filter it with before drinking.  For washing there is no problem with stored tap water.

The interesting thing about tap water that has been stored is the 1/4 inch layer of gunk that accumulates at the bottom over time.  So you thought your tap water was clean huh?  It always needs to be filtered further.

Since I am also a seasonal hunter, I like to go camping in the fall, and I have a complete campsite stashed in the closet by the front door which I can quickly load into my SUV if I need to evacuate.  This includes tarp, tent, rain fly, mattresses, sleeping bags, pillows, lawn chairs, reclining lawn chairs, beach umbrella, and other gear.  Might as well go in style if you need to.

When I hunt, I also backpack, so I keep the backpack ready to go during the off season as well, stored in the front closet with the other gear.

I hunt with rifle, bow, and/or revolver, so those are always ready to go, kept in my gun safe.

I defend the castle with CZ 97B and Mossberg 590 and those are in the gun safe when not on my person.

I like to keep a year's supply of rice, a month's supply of water, 2000 rounds of ammo (which normally lasts 1 year for me), cleaning gear and extra cleaning gear, binos, compass, range finder, hiking boots, hiking shoes, and sneakers all ready to go to be thrown into the SUV if need be.  Also highway roadmap booklets of California, Nevada, Utah and Colorado.  All depends on how far one needs to go to get away from the "problem," but you will need road maps.

Flooding you can usually see coming, by watching The Weather Channel local forecasts.  I watch these every night, mostly so that I can plan my week.

Fires sometimes catch you by complete surprise, but if there is smoke in your county then you should be wary.

Earthquakes are sent by Neptune Himself and there is never any warning for those, but usually you can shelter in place afterwards, unless your neighborhood catches fire like Northridge or San Francisco.

Just in case something really big might happen, I also keep 4 huge empty gasoline cans (plastic) in the front closet, if something is headed our way, foreseeable, and I need to gas up enough to get me all the way out of California and half way across Oregon or Nevada as well.  I would fill these as soon as the likelihood developed.

The last time I went tactical was around 10 pm one night when the big tsunami hit Japan, and the back end of it was headed our way across the Pacific.  I live at an elevation of 20 ft, and those waves can get as high as 50 ft.  Most of California was already in bed and was not paying attention to the news.  I was already at the local gas station down the street filling my 4 gas cans.

Fortunately when that tsunami hit California it only rose to about 4 ft -- no problem.  Gasoline keeps for several months, although not long enough to store.  It would be too dangerous to store it anyway.  Diesel is more safe to store, that's why most industrial generators are Diesel not gasoline.  (Somebody here will probably disagree with that and give a long dissertation missive.)

Be prepared.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 04:17:04 AM by AdamSmith22134 »

AdamSmith22134

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 04:07:20 AM »
No, not the stuff for the Zombie Apocalypse, but for far more real events, hurricane, flood, other types of disasters that interrupt food supplies, power supplies and other luxuries of civilization we have grown so accustomed to over the years. Food, well, it was explained to me, is easy, even on a budget - one can of canned meat, bag of rice, other long term staple, just one or two, every shopping trip. Get a plastic big, tote, movable box, and start filling it. At the end of a year, you have a lot more food items than you thought was possible. You want to have the basics stashed, food, water, shelter, medical, energy - if you can. I'f seen cell phone chargers that work on small solar cells. Given the number of games, books music and other items to wile the time away that can be stored on a modern smart phone, this might be a good idea, even if service is interrupted, especially if you have children. Also solar chargers exist for almost all other portable batteries nowadays, which could provide for a host of things if you don't want to dip into store energy supplies.
Just some random thought.

If you live near Phoenix, Armoredman, then the one major reason for having to evacuate quickly would be one of the local nuclear reactors on the west side of the city melting down, like at Fukushima.  In that case you guys (and gals -- Ms Armouredman) would need to quickly pack and hit the road fast.

You can't go south -- that's Mexico and very dangerous, plus the desert only gets bigger and hotter down there.

You can't go west -- because that would take you through the nuclear cloud.

So you would need to go north (to/thru Utah) or east (to/thru NM) or northeast (to/thru Colorado).

Seems like Colorado would be your best bet -- a rather long drive though.

Food, water, and gasoline -- that's what you would need for that kind of exodus.

AdamSmith22134

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 04:22:40 AM »
No, not the stuff for the Zombie Apocalypse, but for far more real events, hurricane, flood, other types of disasters that interrupt food supplies, power supplies and other luxuries of civilization we have grown so accustomed to over the years. Food, well, it was explained to me, is easy, even on a budget - one can of canned meat, bag of rice, other long term staple, just one or two, every shopping trip. Get a plastic big, tote, movable box, and start filling it. At the end of a year, you have a lot more food items than you thought was possible. You want to have the basics stashed, food, water, shelter, medical, energy - if you can. I'f seen cell phone chargers that work on small solar cells. Given the number of games, books music and other items to wile the time away that can be stored on a modern smart phone, this might be a good idea, even if service is interrupted, especially if you have children. Also solar chargers exist for almost all other portable batteries nowadays, which could provide for a host of things if you don't want to dip into store energy supplies.
Just some random thought.
Walkie-Talkies, 2-way radios, flashlights, all kinds of stuff may be needed. Your needs may differ greatly if your urban or rural. I'm urban, so just having at a month or more worth of stuff is realistic for me. Because I'm urban, and not living in the greatest area known to man, I feel I need more SD guns, ammo, bullet-proof vests, etc. then someone rural may need. No telling when a tribe of bad guys who want your stuff start surrounding your house.

If things are so bad they're not improving within a month, and assuming I'm still alive and healthy, I will take what and who I can with me and try to flee and hook up with some like-minded tribe elsewhere.

Seems like you would be pretty safe in Wisconsin, NRA.  The people there are friendly and Protestant, and they don't rob, shoot, kill or likely eat each other like they would in California.  Just find some friendly cow in a field and milk her for the milk, butter and cheese.  Unless you live downwind from a nuclear reactor complex, there would be no need to fear.  Just worry about keeping warm during the snows of winter.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 07:28:19 PM »
I am not talking abut end-of-the-world. I leave that to others. :) I speak of what we have seen repeated over and over in natural disasters, (which are rare in Arizona, thankfully), which typically knock out power/water/transportation for some days. Yes, firearms are a part of it, but not end-all, be-all.
Adam, I am close 100 miles from the Palo Verde nuclear power generating station, not panicked too badly. Yes, we do have bug out bags ready and bug bot boxes if I have a little more time. :) I can load everything in about 20-30 minutes. Bags can be grabbed on the way out, if no time exists.

Offline bozwell

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 10:03:18 PM »
I am not talking abut end-of-the-world. I leave that to others. :) I speak of what we have seen repeated over and over in natural disasters, (which are rare in Arizona, thankfully), which typically knock out power/water/transportation for some days. Yes, firearms are a part of it, but not end-all, be-all.
Adam, I am close 100 miles from the Palo Verde nuclear power generating station, not panicked too badly. Yes, we do have bug out bags ready and bug bot boxes if I have a little more time. :) I can load everything in about 20-30 minutes. Bags can be grabbed on the way out, if no time exists.

Don't take this as me advocating one way or the other for the religion, but the Mormon church actually publishes some decent lists for stockpiling food and having a general stockpile for a disaster and the like.  It's a lot less tactical than most of the prepper resources you can find (and is probably a lot more practical as well), but it's worth looking at. 

As you were saying aman, I think it's a good idea to pick up a few items each time you go to the store, and there are several reasons for this.  For one, not everyone has the disposable income to just purchase a year's supply of food today.  For another, a lot of this food will last a long time, but it has a finite shelf life.  As such, you can find yourself needing to eat your stockpiled food before it goes bad, and replacing it with newer items.  You can make this a bit easier on yourself if you buy things a little at a time, as you avoid having 100 different items all going bad at the same time. :)

Always good to be prepared.  It's less interesting than tactical gear and bomb shelters, but a healthy savings is also important.  You don't want to be caught without the cash on hand to get by for at least a few months.

Offline Bishop112

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2013, 11:16:58 AM »
I have been thinking about this a lot lately and have been starting to do exactly what you were talking about. I think when you have a family it's just plain foolish not to be prepared for at least a Month of off the grid living. It's amazing how many people depend on services that will crumble in days if not hours of any kind of disaster...... and don't forget the toilet paper!
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AdamSmith22134

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2013, 05:20:48 PM »
I am not talking abut end-of-the-world. I leave that to others. :) I speak of what we have seen repeated over and over in natural disasters, (which are rare in Arizona, thankfully), which typically knock out power/water/transportation for some days. Yes, firearms are a part of it, but not end-all, be-all.
Adam, I am close 100 miles from the Palo Verde nuclear power generating station, not panicked too badly. Yes, we do have bug out bags ready and bug bot boxes if I have a little more time. :) I can load everything in about 20-30 minutes. Bags can be grabbed on the way out, if no time exists.

Don't take this as me advocating one way or the other for the religion, but the Mormon church actually publishes some decent lists for stockpiling food and having a general stockpile for a disaster and the like.  It's a lot less tactical than most of the prepper resources you can find (and is probably a lot more practical as well), but it's worth looking at. 

As you were saying aman, I think it's a good idea to pick up a few items each time you go to the store, and there are several reasons for this.  For one, not everyone has the disposable income to just purchase a year's supply of food today.  For another, a lot of this food will last a long time, but it has a finite shelf life.  As such, you can find yourself needing to eat your stockpiled food before it goes bad, and replacing it with newer items.  You can make this a bit easier on yourself if you buy things a little at a time, as you avoid having 100 different items all going bad at the same time. :)

Always good to be prepared.  It's less interesting than tactical gear and bomb shelters, but a healthy savings is also important.  You don't want to be caught without the cash on hand to get by for at least a few months.

I think the Mormon church advocates long term food storage however, with shelled wheat as their basis, for which you need a wheat grinder/mill with a hand crank on it, and a source of water -- which they have along the Wasatch Mtns.  They also use canned honey as a staple, and powdered milk.  That would work great in Utah, which is land locked and guarded by mountains on the north and east, and deserts on the west and south, and watered by their mountains, which catch snow every year.  This is a shelter-in-place strategy, not bugging out or evacuating. 

Same is true of Colorado -- guarded by mountains on the north and west, deserts on the south, but wide open prairie on the east -- where they ranch cattle like in Texas.

Rice works better than wheat, because all you need to do is boil it.  Even dry pasta works better than wheat, because all you need to do with pasta is boil it as well.  I don't think anyone in the high echelons of the Mormon church has thought through the wheat thing.

So for 72 hours, canned or freeze-dried foods make the most sense.  And for longer periods, rice or pasta, plus water.

Just like on a camping trip, an evacuation plan is going to require a change of clothing, and a way to wash the old clothes.  There won't be any washing machines in a refugee camp.  So a big plastic basin to soak clothes in, and a clothesline with clothes pins, is as critical as anything else.

Offline bozwell

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2013, 05:31:17 PM »
I don't know where you're getting the what thing from.  They provide a few exemplary plans, but none of those are focused on grinding out shelled wheat.  For that matter, they're just examples, and include rice, beans and a number of other starches.  Not sure how you ended up with the takeaway message of "shelled wheat"  :o

AdamSmith22134

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 06:03:57 PM »
I don't know where you're getting the what thing from.  They provide a few exemplary plans, but none of those are focused on grinding out shelled wheat.  For that matter, they're just examples, and include rice, beans and a number of other starches.  Not sure how you ended up with the takeaway message of "shelled wheat"  :o
That's just what I have heard from them.

I always ask them what are they going to do with the wheat?

They always say bake bread or something like that.

I always ask them how are they going to bake bread without an oven?

They don't like to be asked detailed questions like that.

NRA1945

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 11:12:00 PM »
No, not the stuff for the Zombie Apocalypse, but for far more real events, hurricane, flood, other types of disasters that interrupt food supplies, power supplies and other luxuries of civilization we have grown so accustomed to over the years. Food, well, it was explained to me, is easy, even on a budget - one can of canned meat, bag of rice, other long term staple, just one or two, every shopping trip. Get a plastic big, tote, movable box, and start filling it. At the end of a year, you have a lot more food items than you thought was possible. You want to have the basics stashed, food, water, shelter, medical, energy - if you can. I'f seen cell phone chargers that work on small solar cells. Given the number of games, books music and other items to wile the time away that can be stored on a modern smart phone, this might be a good idea, even if service is interrupted, especially if you have children. Also solar chargers exist for almost all other portable batteries nowadays, which could provide for a host of things if you don't want to dip into store energy supplies.
Just some random thought.
Walkie-Talkies, 2-way radios, flashlights, all kinds of stuff may be needed. Your needs may differ greatly if your urban or rural. I'm urban, so just having at a month or more worth of stuff is realistic for me. Because I'm urban, and not living in the greatest area known to man, I feel I need more SD guns, ammo, bullet-proof vests, etc. then someone rural may need. No telling when a tribe of bad guys who want your stuff start surrounding your house.

If things are so bad they're not improving within a month, and assuming I'm still alive and healthy, I will take what and who I can with me and try to flee and hook up with some like-minded tribe elsewhere.

Seems like you would be pretty safe in Wisconsin, NRA.  The people there are friendly and Protestant, and they don't rob, shoot, kill or likely eat each other like they would in California.  Just find some friendly cow in a field and milk her for the milk, butter and cheese.  Unless you live downwind from a nuclear reactor complex, there would be no need to fear.  Just worry about keeping warm during the snows of winter.
I live in the southeast between Milwaukee and Chicago. I'm certainly better off here then living in Kalifornia, but it's not exactly the pasture land your thinking of. My town is OK, but seems to be getting worse by the year. Lots of riff-raff moving in here from across the border in IL.

On top of that, I'm not too far from the Zion nuclear plant, which has been shut down for some time. If something ever happens with that, guess where everyone living across in IL is going to go? Straight up by me that's where. And a lot of people in that area aren't exactly model citizens either. If I need to flee, the only way to go is out west in the rural areas.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 11:15:20 PM by NRA1945 »

AdamSmith22134

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2013, 04:42:51 AM »
Well, NRA, everyone needs a bug out route.  And everyone needs to be mobile.  Everyone will need a vehicle and a full tank of gasoline, and extra gasoline.  That's why I have extra gas cans.  I have 4, and I will probably get 4 more.  I also keep my SUV at least 3/4ths full of gas.  So 57 gallons should get me at least 1000 miles away.  That would be in the case of an apocalyptic event.

If you are prepared for an apocalyptic event, then you can deal with anything less as well.

Your plan to "wait 1 month in place" is ok, but you better stock up on gasoline at the start of that month because after 1 month the pumps won't be running any more.

And of course, you need to defend your gas too, in the meantime.

When people get desperate, and hungry, and start to starve, they are not necessarily very polite anymore.  Especially not the riff raff.

 ;D

Offline armoredman

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2013, 02:50:47 PM »
Unfortunately, with my wife's medical issues, hiking to the mountains ain't gonna work very well. Also, the extra gas cans might be used to keep the thing running while you are stuck in a Katrina style parking lot. Many cars ran out of gas on that stalled freeway. Yes, those were the ones who waited to bug out until the last second, but they HAD plenty of warning. Some incidents give little to no warning, and can cause huge long term threats - Chernobyl, Fukashima come to mind off the top of my head. I that circumstance, you may find yourself "sheltering in place" on the freeway.
Again I state the scenarios I envision are of the proven variety, that which has happened, hurricane, nuclear meltdown, flood, etc, and how long it took to get functioning governmental and mercantile apparatus back in place and fully functional. I don't address the long term survival options for two reasons - I don't believe in the "zombie apocalypse", and I can't buy into the nuclear winter scenario quite yet, and don't have the resources to live through it anyway. If I buy a Titan II silo to use for a bunker, then the tone of this board may change. :)

Offline derweibhai

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Re: Random thoughts - stocking up?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »
Check out www.thesurvivalpodcast.com very cool little (almost 100,000 people) community. Jack is an honest, and very intelligent individual and his guests and expert council have about any info you will ever need as far as preparedness is concerned.