Author Topic: Shotgun suggestions  (Read 8374 times)

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Offline Cali Crash

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Shotgun suggestions
« on: December 23, 2013, 07:12:51 PM »
So far we have only purchased hand guns. Renting right now so just have a small safe. Once we buy our house in January, first big purchase is a full sized safe. Once we get to that point we will be looking for a shotgun for home defense and range. I'm loving the CZ pistols but have never held a CZ shotgun or rifle (which will likely come after the shot gun). Anyways, I would be most interested in what's the best bang for the buck. I'd prefer a multi shot variant, shorter barrel for indoor maneuverability, and larger gauge. The money will likely be spent on rifles later, as I'm interested in trying out hunting. Anyways, any suggestions and recommendations will be appreciated as always.
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Offline muggia59

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 07:36:45 PM »
There is a broad spectrum there. Not to many shotguns that I know of that aren't reliable. I have a Mossberg 500 7 shot and a weatherby 459. Find an 18.5" barrel shotgun for home defense. Even a 20gauge will do the job. Slightly less recoil.
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Offline muggia59

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 07:38:17 PM »
And CZ makes the 612 which is also reasonably priced.
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Offline Googe1227

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 07:41:26 PM »
I like the CZ 712ALS for home defense. The adjustable stock is a nice feature for the wife. 26" barrel is by no means short.

Great bang for the buck so to speak.

Offline Cali Crash

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 01:17:34 AM »
Is there one that would be good for hunting (just gettin into the sport so not sure what I'd be hunting yet), home/range and is a decent price? Also, is the gauge like wire, where the higher it is numerically the smaller the diameter gets? Or is it higher gauge, larger diameter? I've only fired a shotgun once, 15+/- years ago now if i remember correct. I've fired several rifles and even more handguns, just totally inexperienced with shotguns. Took me a while to even figure out what a choke was for, but still don't fully understand it. Anyways, thanks so far for the input I looked at the 612 + 712 online. Me and the wife were thrilled they have one called a redhead, cause she is but not sure it's what we'd be looking for.
22LR Kadet kit
9mm CZ75bd (CGW DCP, RRK and E/Z-D sight set)
9mm CZ75b high polish stainless
9mm SP-01 Tactical (CGW DCP, RRK and E/Z-D sight set)
9mm SP-01
9mm P09 (at CGW for PRO-Series "P" package and sights)
9mm P09
45acp 97b

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 02:37:07 AM »
Crash,  you have to kind of skim this,  but answers to your questions are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell

Shot SIZE and Shotgun GAUGE are two different things.  Both a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge shotgun can be shooting #6 (size) shot.  The 12 gauge can have more of them than the 20 gage due to the barrel diameter being bigger with 12 gauge.   
As GAUGE gets Smaller, The BARREL DIAMETER GETS BIGGER:  410 shotguns are based in the 45 long Colt bbl. diameter = smallest .   20 gage = bigger,  16 gauge= bigger +, then getting even bigger with 12 gauge and 10 gauge .

CHOKES:  A shotgun's muzzle diameter is a fixed diameter available in different sizes/chokes.  Changeable Chokes are used to change that diameter which affects the "spread of the shot at various ranges".  This makes it pretty clear:  http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx

Typically your looking at 20 gauge and 12 gauge as the normal sizes for your stated potential uses.  12 gauge is the most available and cheapest ammo.

Hope this makes sense and helps your understanding..
P.S.  I shoot a 55+ year ol Browning 16 gauge with a "variable" choke.   ;D 

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 03:12:54 AM »
And interesting bit of trivia -- the "gauge" of a shotgun is how many lead balls the diameter of the barrel it takes to equal one pound.  So yes, the bigger the barrel, the lower the number of lead balls that size makes a pound, and so the lower the gauge number.  ;)

Offline quasimojo

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 03:40:58 PM »
Just my opinion, but as  was stated in the first post, I think the Mossberg 500 is your best choice.  Here is why I think that:

  • The Mossberg 500 pump is an American made shotgun, it's tried a tried and true design, that's remained relatively unchanged for decades.  This means that aftermarket parts are generally available at a decent price point (cheap).
  • Mossberg sells their pump in a variety of configurations and packages.  For example you could purchase a Field Package that includes 2 barrels (regular 26" 12 GA shoutgun and a 28" 12 GA Sabot barrel) with a scope mount and a shotgun scope for $350.  You could therefore own a weapon suitable for upland game hunting, deer hunting, casual clay shooting, and (to a lesser extent) home defense (more on that statement in the next bullet)
  • What matters for home defense most is length of the barrel.  You want a smaller size barrel to make it more maneuverable, and be able to level the gun at your target faster.  Usually with a tactial shotgun somewhere around 18.5" is preferable (and the minimum legal barrel length) where 28" is probably the  longest effective length you would want to try for.  Buying a smaller 18.5" barrrel either aftermarket or direct from Mossberg should be easily and cheaply accomplished.
  • The sound of a pump racking a round is likely the best defense you have.  It's loud, it is easily distinguished and would stop most people dead in their tracks immediately without you having to fire a shot or say a word.  It would take a person dedicated to stupidity and death to try and take a stairwell after hearing a shotgun rack somewhere up the stairs.

All that being said the Mossberg isn't a pretty looking gun, but it is among the most reliable and easiest to use for any gender.  I wouldn't be dumping a load of money into a home defense gun, perhaps $400 since I do all the things with mine I listed in my first bullet point.

Just my two cents for your consideration.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 03:47:49 PM by quasimojo »

Offline Cali Crash

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 02:28:50 PM »
quasimojo, awesome reply! I'd love to stay with CZ as awesome as their handguns are, but I need that versatility at a budget that it seems the Mossberg 500 can afford. Now what are the differences with the three barrels you mentioned? I understand the 18.5" for home defense as you want to be able to maneuver I doors. Where I don't know what the difference is with the standard 26" barrel and 28" sabot. If try upland, but I think deer would be more my preference. Part of why when we get to that point I'll have a bigger budget for the rifle then I would for shot gun. Would it be cheaper to land one with the 18.5" barrel and pick up the other for hunting, or what would be the most cost effective way about it? I was originally thinking $500 or under, so even your suggestion with all three is definitely on point. I looked at the CZ 612 & 712 but didn't know what to look for when shopping for versatility. I just want the most versatile shot gun with a good capacity that I can use for home defense, take to the range, or actually go hunting.
22LR Kadet kit
9mm CZ75bd (CGW DCP, RRK and E/Z-D sight set)
9mm CZ75b high polish stainless
9mm SP-01 Tactical (CGW DCP, RRK and E/Z-D sight set)
9mm SP-01
9mm P09 (at CGW for PRO-Series "P" package and sights)
9mm P09
45acp 97b

Offline quasimojo

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 11:09:58 PM »
quasimojo, awesome reply! I'd love to stay with CZ as awesome as their handguns are, but I need that versatility at a budget that it seems the Mossberg 500 can afford. Now what are the differences with the three barrels you mentioned? I understand the 18.5" for home defense as you want to be able to maneuver I doors. Where I don't know what the difference is with the standard 26" barrel and 28" sabot. If try upland, but I think deer would be more my preference. Part of why when we get to that point I'll have a bigger budget for the rifle then I would for shot gun. Would it be cheaper to land one with the 18.5" barrel and pick up the other for hunting, or what would be the most cost effective way about it? I was originally thinking $500 or under, so even your suggestion with all three is definitely on point. I looked at the CZ 612 & 712 but didn't know what to look for when shopping for versatility. I just want the most versatile shot gun with a good capacity that I can use for home defense, take to the range, or actually go hunting.

OK, so some slight revisions by me just to make sure I don't steer you wrong:

Sabot barrel:  24" rifled shotgun barrel used to fire a sabot round or slug.  This is what you would use to hunt deer as the rifling and slug extend the accurate distance of the shot, probably out to 75 yards with plenty of hitting power.  This barrel would also include a cantilevered scope mount on the barrel for mounting the included shotgun scope (which is of questionable value and would likely need to be replaced with a better one for reliable, consistent accuracy.)  My big reason for this purchase was that it allowed me to use a rifled slug in counties where rifle hunting has been banned.

Shotgun barrel: 28" normal shotgun barrel that you would use for bird (pheasant, turkey, or goose) , clays (trap, skeet), or home defense (not as desirable because of the longer barrel, but it'll still get the job done.  Included with shotgun barrel are 5 chokes to modify the spread of the shot as well as a choke wrench for inserting/pulling from the barrel.  You could also use plain old buckshot in this barrel to hunt deer.

Tactical barrel:  18.5" used to spray either buckshot or highbrass birdshot at a home invader.   This barrel configuration has no useful purpose outside home defense and target practice in my opinion.  I would not use a slug for home defense purposes.

I opted to buy geared toward hunting first, and eventually purchased a tactical barrel when I ran into a really good deal.  We have plenty of handguns so I wasn't pressed for home defense.  You just need to prioritize for yourself.   Capacity wise with the Mossy 500A package you'll be confined to 5 shots max and must plug the shotgun to 3 max capacity when using it to hunt.  Personally, if a home invasion can't be resolved in 3 shots, there is a much bigger problem...

This is about as versitile as you are going to get for the price.  Hopefully some of the other folks will also chime in.  I just purchased a 12 ga Redhead Deluxe O/U over Christmas.  I'm delighted using it for upland game hunts but a double wouldn't be my 'go to' gun for home defense.  A low priced Mossy is in the sweet spot for that role...  Again not dissing CZ shotguns, but you really need to consider the role the tool will play verse the money you will be putting down.

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Offline Night Prowler

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 11:58:51 PM »
After shooting the Mossberg and the CZ 612, I would have to agree with the Mossberg 500 recommendation. Mossberg has been building shotguns for a while now and do a great job at it.
I have a CZ612 HD that I just picked up. The 612 is not made by CZ but only imported by CZ. So far I only have the 18.5" barrel on it. Handles and shoots nice but the first trip to the clay range I would get a light primer strike every few rounds. I couldn't empty a mag tube with out a light strike. Tried different ammo no difference. CZ customer support was excellent. They ended up replacing the bolt. After getting it back I have to say its much better. I have about 200 rounds on it now but still have had 3 light strikes.
In my opinion 3 failures out of 200 rounds is not a home defense gun. I like the way it handles and the price is attractive but I dont think the reliability is there.
There is also large market support for the Mossberges (mag tub extensions, grips, stocks lights and so on)

Offline Skookum

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 02:42:23 AM »
For defense and range I'd go high capacity while you still can: e.g. ?

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Offline quasimojo

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2013, 08:51:46 AM »
The price point for the Kel-Tecs are ridiculous though...  K-T is way beyond a simple home defense use case anyhow.  You'd have more fun, gain more knowledge, and spend WAY less by picking up a used Mossy or 870 and Tac'ing it out yourself.  The whole point of a shotgun is spray and pray.  Having 20 available shots doesn't really help you out much.  I'd rather learn to reload faster than shell out 2K for a KT of questionable reliability anyhow...  Just my humble opinion...

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Offline bugboy

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2013, 09:22:46 AM »
This is not my auction, but here you go - CZ, 12 gauge pump, set up for HD.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=384020927

You might be better off with a Mossberg or Remington as you could find longer replacement barrels in case you wanted to use the gun for hunting or trap/skeet or something.

On the other hand: there is a good chance you will have numerous guns in the future and some may only serve one purpose.  For example: I have a "quail shotgun", an "upland game and dove shotgun", a "3 gun and waterfowl shotgun". And until recently I had a HD/riot shotgun and a "cancer shotgun" (18" 10 gauge SxS).

Guns don't cost money to keep around, there is no annual tax on them and if you buy right and sell right they are decent "investments". "Buy early and buy often"
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Offline Artist

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Re: Shotgun suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2013, 09:45:14 AM »
I totally agree with the Mossburg 500 as a can't go wrong option, and in general a pump action is the way to go for reliability. I have a few pump 12 ga shotguns one of which is perfect for home defense, another rifled and still another for clays. That being said I really want a CZ Ringneck 201A Single Case Hardened 12-26 because, well, bleep, that is one beautiful piece of art.
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