Author Topic: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?  (Read 9490 times)

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Offline cciman

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Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« on: February 21, 2014, 04:08:18 PM »
I've always wanted a VZ58, and jumped when I got an email from Czechpoint had these in stock in military form with a polymer stock.  Very nice fit and finish, seems very nice.  Bayo lug, and Slovak pinned muzzle brake, polymer bayo and leather scabbard, 4 mags with US internals.  Made by Waffen Werks, stamped D-tech, sold by Czechpont.   Chrome lined bore and bolt.  Looks like a metal trigger.  Tabbed.  Haven't shot it.

Having said that, I am wondering if my extra $500 compared to a VZ2008 sporter was worth it.  Anyone compared these side to side, recently?

I guess its the Arsenal/Saiga comparative of VZ58.   I don't know unless I hold the other ones.

Offline RSR

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2014, 05:47:22 PM »
I'm relatively new as a poster on these forums; long time lurker.  But these types of threads usually lead to irrational arguments and are quickly shut down...

This thread covered fairly objectively recently: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=61017

Offline bemky

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 07:22:21 PM »
i would say def. if you have the money theres no doubt get the czechpoint... if you cant afford it is the only reason u should get a 2008
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Offline cciman

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 10:50:19 PM »
I didn't ask VZ58 vs AK vs AR.

THEN it gets irrational.   ;)


I'm relatively new as a poster on these forums; long time lurker.  But these types of threads usually lead to irrational arguments and are quickly shut down...

This thread covered fairly objectively recently: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=61017

Offline jwc007

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 02:16:48 AM »
I'm relatively new as a poster on these forums; long time lurker.  But these types of threads usually lead to irrational arguments and are quickly shut down...

Yup! I hate it when that happens and I don't like these kinds of threads for that reason, so a word to the wise.............



so lets try to keep this thread rational and see where it goes............for now

For the record, I have about 600 trouble free rounds ( Tula and Barnaul ) thru my Vz2008.  No Bolt Gremlin so far, but I'm keeping an eye on it.  If it breaks, then I will fix it, and keep on shooting it.  Mr. Murphy, of Murphy's Law, respects no make and model of anything, and anything can break, no matter what it costs.

Over the next Spring, Summer, and Fall, I expect to get to the Rifle Range with it and enjoy it!  :)


Vz2008 with upgrades
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 02:20:26 AM by jwc007 »
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Offline cz671

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 03:36:39 AM »
I'm relatively new as a poster on these forums; long time lurker.  But these types of threads usually lead to irrational arguments and are quickly shut down...

Yup! I hate it when that happens and I don't like these kinds of threads for that reason, so a word to the wise.............



so lets try to keep this thread rational and see where it goes............for now

For the record, I have about 600 trouble free rounds ( Tula and Barnaul ) thru my Vz2008.  No Bolt Gremlin so far, but I'm keeping an eye on it.  If it breaks, then I will fix it, and keep on shooting it.  Mr. Murphy, of Murphy's Law, respects no make and model of anything, and anything can break, no matter what it costs.

Over the next Spring, Summer, and Fall, I expect to get to the Rifle Range with it and enjoy it!  :)


Vz2008 with upgrades

How about a thread stating the facts between the two vz58s?  And that's just it the "Facts".   This will be great info between the two vz58s for all to know......don't you agree?  This thread will gear towards not how many round counts your particular vz58 shot, but more like where it's made, how it's made what parts are used, who assembled it etc....

Offline cciman

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 11:32:17 AM »
Is the 2008 chrome lined barrel?  Anyone know who makes the receiver and barrel- what is stamped on the side?
Is the slant brake that comes on it pinned/welded?

I get the sense the VZ receiver is US made: it has Waffen Werks, Knox TN, and D-technik stamped on one side, but a US patent number on the other side.  All furniture on mine is lightweight black polymer with no markings.

Offline bemky

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 12:22:23 PM »
there is a thread on here that documents all the differences in a chart... best ive seen. but i forget where it is
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 07:11:28 PM »
Is the 2008 chrome lined barrel?  Anyone know who makes the receiver and barrel- what is stamped on the side?
Is the slant brake that comes on it pinned/welded?

I get the sense the VZ receiver is US made: it has Waffen Werks, Knox TN, and D-technik stamped on one side, but a US patent number on the other side.  All furniture on mine is lightweight black polymer with no markings.

I like my two CSA/Czechpoint 58's. I'll leave that at that. :) The Century guns are generally good (especially for the money) as well.

--------------------------
The barrels on the 2008's are not chrome lined. They never have been. The barrels on the CSA rifles are original surplus, chrome lined. Albeit, they are in excellent condition. I saw/heard/read about one problem with an original barrel. It was replaced by Czechpoint.

The slant brake on the 2008 are not pinned. The original length barrels are slightly under 16 inches. Hence (unless you SBR) the CSA rifles have pinned extensions or brakes. The 2008 barrels  are made slightly longer at around 16 inches. So no pinning is need.

I'm not sure about all the markings. But the receivers for the CSA rifles are made in the Czech Republic by D-Technik (now called CSA/Czech Small Arms). Czechpoint claims to be the sole importer of the CSA rifles. But Waffen Werks may still be an importer or was at one point. Waffen Werks may also be the the company that modifies the receivers from single stack sporter models to double stack models once they reach the US. (To follow import laws, the rifles come in one way and are modified after they get here to a more "military/original look".

The Century guns receivers are made here in the USA.

The black polymer furniture on your guns are there because Czechpoint/CSA said they were running low/out of good condition beaver barf. So they replaced their rifles with polymer copies.

Here is a list of parts that are made here and elsewhere:

 The Century guns are in fact and have to be 922r compliant (as do others). They simply use more/different compliant, US made parts. I'm not gonna spend the time. So I'll quote Obiwan from a post from2012.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=40349.msg225637#msg225637

922r applies to all weapons prohibited from importation by section 925d(basically, any semi automatic rifle or shotgun that has any of these "non sporting" features:
ability to accept high capacity(over 10)military magazines
ability to accept a bayonet
separate pistol grip
folding stock
flash or sound suppressor
threaded barrel to accept a flash or sound suppressor
accessory rails
This list is not all inclusive and the ATF can change it at their whim as the law only states "not particularly suitable for sporting purposes")

922r does not count the number of U.S. parts, but rather the number of imported parts, from a list of major parts that they deem to be countable.  You are not permitted to use more than 10 of these imported parts
the vz58 has 15 parts that the ATF counts for 922r and they are as follows:
1 receiver
2 barrel
3 barrel extension/muzzle device
4 bolt
5 bolt carrier
6 trigger
7 sear
8 disconnector
9 gas piston
10 magazine body
11 magazine follower
12 magazine floorplate
13 pistol grip
14 buttstock
15 handguards

The following is a list of what U.S. manufactured(non imported) parts are used on the U.S. market avaialbe vz58 variants.

For compliance D-Technik Rifles use
1 trigger
2 disconnector
3 sear
4 floorplate
5 follower

Century vz2008 rifles use
1 receiver
2 barrel
3 muzzle device
4 disconnector
5 sear
6 gas piston


Ohio Ordnance works rifles use
1 Receiver
2 Sear
3 disconnector
4 Gas piston
5 Muzzle extension
6 Floorplate

Ohio Rapid Fire factory rifles use
1 Receiver
2 Trigger
3 Sear
4 Disconnector
5 Gas piston
6 Muzzle extension

Offline Dfender90

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 08:54:45 PM »
i would say def. if you have the money theres no doubt get the czechpoint... if you cant afford it is the only reason u should get a 2008

+1!

Offline RedState

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 09:11:10 PM »
It would be nice to hear from someone who has both and has done side by side analysis of the two insofar as function and longevity are concerned. Probably an unrealistic hope. My main interest is whether each will last as long as the other with high round counts.
By the way, congratulations and welcome cciman.

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 10:07:18 PM »
I forgot. The barrels on the 2008 are made by Green Mountain. I don't recall who makes the receivers.

Redstate,
If you or someone else wants to dontate a 2008 for testing and some ammo. I'll be more than happy to do a side by side.

===========
This is pure conjecture. But considering the CSA has a cold hammer forged, chrome lined barrel. And the 2008 barrel are not chrome lined made of 4140 steel and hardened to a Rockwell of 30-35. (I've seen people say this is too soft. But who knows) And the bores on the 2008 have a diameter of .308. And most ammo anyone is gonna shoot down one has a a diameter of .310/.311. That MAY cause an issue with prolonged use. The original barrels on the CSA guns have the correct bore diameter for the bullets it intends to shoot.

Of course how someone shooting their rifle could have significant impacts on the bore. Wear would greatly increase with sustained rapid fire and getting the barrel really warm.

Offline cciman

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 10:26:39 PM »
Thanks for the typing.  These guns did not hit our shores until about 2005, too bad I jumped in so late, I recall seeing them in the $6-700 range back in the day.   Green Mountain seems to make barrels for everyone, but they are good barrels.
I think "chrome lining" alone will predict longevity, and accuracy over time, especially with steel case, bi-metal jacketed ammo.
I personally think an installed chrome lined a barrel is alone worth some extra bucks.   

That Aim surplus deal with the 5 extra mags is quite a deal, but I live down the road in Ohio so with tax+shipping+transfer, I'll just live with D-Technik.

The only other Century import product I have is a Grand Power P1 9mm, made in Slovakia, and I have no complaints.  This is one heck of a nice pistol for the money.

Offline Franz Maurer

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 01:57:09 PM »
Czechpoint's warranty is a LIE
so no,  it's NOT worth it.

 :P
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 05:07:57 AM »
Czechpoint's warranty is a LIE
so no,  it's NOT worth it.

 :P

I was wondering if you were gonna chime in. O0

Hey, if you want. I purchased a small lot of parts that I needed (mainly a FSB with bayonet lug) that came with a rear sight. I don't need the rear sight. If you want it. Shoot me a PM and I'll mail it to. I don't need the rear sight,  I think. It's in used/surplus, but overall good condition. The notch is centered, which I believe was/is your issue.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 05:12:29 AM by Sheepdog »