9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit

[RSR]

Personally, a 9mm VZ58 makes a heck of a lot more sense to me and my needs, especially SBR'ed, than a 223/5.56 (either an Galil or M16 variant w/ an 18"+ is ideal for my needs in that caliber). 

But w/o further delay, here's the article.  H/T Firearm Blog: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/08/kolarms-adds-9mm-vz-58s-capabilities/

Kaliber: This a newly-made conversion of the venerable czechslovakian Vz.58 7,62?39 mm assault rifle to 9 mm Luger submachine gun. Both tested guns are prototypes only, made for a law enforcement inquiry. The first one is for the Glock pistol magazines, with a 12/76 shotgun underbarrel ?doorbreaching device?, the bolt is two-part in that gun, and that is the reason for the jams. The other is more developed version, for the CZ Skorpion EVO magazines and complete new bolt, that worked perfectly. The recoil is almost nothing, the submachine guns vere easily controllable and fun to shoot?
Both guns are simple blowback, closed bolt full auto guns, but a semiauto pistol-caliber carbine is/will be available.
http://www.kaliberinfo.hu/fegyvervideok/kolarms-vz-58-9x19-mm-geppisztolyok

And no, it's not available for sale.  Just prototype from what I can tell.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXrUFK3GsN4

The Scorpion Evo option looks like what the GunMagazin folks were running in this vid from an earlier post on here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX9e4GxR5ro


For reference, here's a Scorpion Evo:

http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx

The CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 is a modern submachine gun chambered in 9x19 used by security forces and armies around the world. The weapon is characterised by exceptional ergonomics, durability and ease of use. This submachine gun meets requirements for reliable operation in adverse conditions according to both NATO AC 225/D14, and TPVD 637 ? 81. The weapon enables the fire to be conducted in fully automatic fire, three round bursts, and single shots.
No tools are necessary for routine maintenance disassembly. Low weight and small dimensions facilitate concealed carry and use in very confined spaces. Characteristic features of this weapon are a good balance making quick and easy aiming, high accuracy of fire, long service life and high functional reliability under all conditions. The advantages are fully ambidextrous controls and four accessory rails according to MIL-STD-1913 fitted as standard.

And here's a GunExpert article on previous 9mm, "Bulldog" variants of the VZ58: http://www.gunexpert.cz/products/sa-vz-58-98-bulldog-9mm/

And for fun, here's a full auto CZ75:




http://www.czub.cz/en/news/written-about-us/632-the-czech-9mm-cz-75-full-automatic-pistol.aspx

[RSR]

Another 9mm video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUroiZO8dFQ

[muggia59]

Enjoyed the videos RSR. I have been interested in a 9mm carbine for awhile now. As far as availability, as much as a CZ or a VZ would be my first choice, the Beretta CX will probably have to do.

[RSR]

Slide Fire 9mm Colt:
http://youtu.be/LZiw0pQoSaY

Personally, I prefer the Keltec sub2000 over Beretta for a heavy polymer weapon.  Beretta is probably an overall better weapon though.  Both are shorter overall length than the colt, or at least should be with pistol grip versus forward mag position.

The Slide Fire option on that 9mm Colt is really compelling, and I have a soft spot for Uzis too.  YMMV.

I was looking at building a Micro Galil and ran some numbers -- an 8" 223 barrel Microgalil vs a 16" sub2k barrel results in the Sub2k having 93% of 55gr 223 or 82% of 62gr 223 out of competing platforms.
Lengthwise, the Sub2k with pistol grip mag and open runs 29.5".  The Microgalil with forward mag, 8" barrel, and open runs 27.8".  So less than 2" length difference and shooting the 9mm indoors isn't equivalent to a flashbang going off.
My ramble is over here on it if interested: http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?74783-Micro-Galil-Utility-amp-Purposes

Also, I mention over there, but the only thing as civilians the 223s can do that 9mm can't is pierce soft armor.  For military/LE, they can buy armor piercing 9mm rounds, so a non-issue...

[Franz Maurer]

and another with some close ups
http://youtu.be/AK8DVy1gNmo

[RSR]

Awesome, thanks for sharing. 

[RSR]

Related vid released the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34

[cz671]

When you say conversion kit... This means you can convert the same platform from 7.62x39 to 9mm?
Or is this a dedicated vz58 platform in 9mm?

[RSR]

Well, you'd need to swap out barrels.  A 9mm bullet is about 1/2" wider than is 7.62x39.

And the action on this 9mm kit is a blowback rather than piston operated.  So you wouldn't drill a gas hole in the barrel (could still mount a gas block if you wish for standard handguards, etc.  Just don't drill.

Otherwise, the main conversion parts would only be the new 9mm specific bolt, a mag well adapter, and whatever recoil spring system they have setup and tuned for the 9mm blowback action (springs might be stock)...  For their Scorpion Evo Mod it looks like they deleted the standard entire top cover/bolt carrier/etc and redid that whole top part of weapon.

[Cheapo]

Too bad a simple drop in platform wouldnt work for these rifles, with the barrels being pressed in and all. A 9mm set up would be much more practical for an apartment defense weapon.

[RSR]

The FBI is looking to switch from 40 S&W to 9mm.  Click the link below for why (FWIW, I agree 100% with their justifications, and no, in a ball ammo military setting the reasoning does not 100% translate, but the HK 45 Mk23 is a overweight, overengineered boondoggle and the 1911 [just like the DI AR15] requires far more maintenance than can or should be expected in a military field setting...):

Below is a very interesting read from the FBI Training Division, FBI Academy, Quantico, VA. from a few months ago. This was a PDF file that was sent to me by a coworker. I want to emphasis this is not mine and I did not create it/the content. I simply copied the text and placed it in this format, here on Loose Rounds, so it was easier to see.  It is an executive summary of justification for law enforcement agencies on 9mm for duty carry. If you have followed us here, you know I have been talking about numerous agencies switching back to 9mm over the last few years, as well as the FBI testing for their switch. Great strides in bullet technology have been made in the past decade and 9mm is on the top of its game. With a select few rounds in 9mm, that have been tested for duty carry, 9mm is fast becoming one of the best options for duty carry. ( the authors opinion on 9mm being the best defensive round is his and does not reflect the opinion of all looserounds writers or owners-ED) This goes into some detailed history of testing, common caliber myths and justification for 9mm use over other calibers. The picture below has absolutely nothing to do with the content below. It is  a very old picture that most are familiar with. I put it in to give others a frame of reference, on the type of rounds being discussed below.  Enjoy!

http://looserounds.com/2014/09/21/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/

[nickndfl]

There is no good reason to convert other than proof of concept.  Too complicated and more likely to jam. Not to mention ammo prices are about the same. If you want a good apartment 9mm carbine get a Glock 19 and Mech Tech upper.

[Cheapo]

Eh not a bad idea. Really after looking into it more, a pistol is more ideal anyway. Can manipulate doors, move things with free hand while keeping weapon ready. Currently have a G35 (wish I would have got a 34) with a surefire x300u and 22 round mag, best defensive weapon for an apartment that I could come up with minus it being a 40 vs 9. Not that a 9mm carbine is not on the "to buy" list 

[RSR]

I just updated this re: 9mm being equivalent to other pistol rounds w/ modern defensive ammo and no pistol round being a one shot stop...

However, the MechTech looks interesting -- hadn't seen that before.  But you'd be in ~$800 for one of those (pistol+upper), which is about the price of the platinum pistol carbine (IMO), the Colt AR, or platinum sub machine gun Action Arms or IMI Uzi. 

Honestly, I'd really like the Scorpion EVO, but IF the there was a decent price kit for the VZ2008 conversion, I'd definitely have to consider it.

Re: pistol vs rifle, I wear ~34" sleeve shirts.  With pistol + arms extended is over 3 feet/36", probably pushing 40".  My sub2k is 29.5" in length (with 16" barrel, most SBRs in 223 have barrel lengths of 1/2 that to have similar length).  Just wanted to illustrate that weapon size doesn't correspond to presentation length (and the rifle is easier to maintain control of than a pistol in the event of a struggle IMO).

My preference would be to cut the Keltec down to 10-12" and run it as an SBR.  Just not sure that weapon's worth the stamp...

[Cheapo]

Im looking to get a Sub2k in 9 soon here. Seems to be a great solution but I'm with you, if the vz had some cheap fix to run 9 I would be open to it.

Not to hijack this thread, but how do you like your sub2k? A buddy had one and said it would only shoot hot loads.