Bonesteel Arms availability

[son of a gun]

Talked to Chris at Bonesteel Arms today, was told that they completed  100  hand guards and  they had contacted 80 people who had orders in. He said that if they don't hear anything within two weeks they will start contacting people who had later orders. Now if they sell all 100 sets, they  won't have the next batch done until June or July of 2015. I'm in no hurry to part with my cash so I will wait.

[bugboy]

Seems like if I had 80 "orders" for a product with a 6 month resupply period, I would make more that 100 items.

I am really glad that I found a used NEA/Troy set here on the forum. There is no way I would wait 3 to 18 months in order to buy an item from a manufacturer.

[gunzz]

All I know is I'm calling him pronto in the morning, thanks for the heads up.

[RSR]

Wow, that is major BS.     And horrible business practice/malpractice.

I backordered in July and have not been contacted.

I'm running the traps to see possible alternatives.

[Ohio_OJ]

I also backordered in July and have heard nothing, hummmm

[Kolme]

Similar scenario here. I emailed them back in July asking the ETA (was told they would get a new batch in September) so I placed an order Aug4th and asked for updates here and there. I'm sure they stay busy, being a small business, but this news is a bit of bummer... 

Gunzz, were you able to get any confirmatory word from Chris?

[gunzz]

No, got an answering machine at Bonesteel, left a voicemail and emailed him too.
That was 24hrs ago, no response as of now.

I just called CNC as I wondered if they might have produced some for their own online store.
Gal said they shipped all units to Chris, they have zero at CNC.
She talked to him this morning, she said he's giving it a few more days to contact everyone.
She was courteous and says she's getting calls/emails I wasn't the first, I felt sorry for her to be honest.

Following conversation with CNC, I went over to bonesteel site and ordered two sets of hand guards figuring (gambling) someone will cancel.
I want to get two sets of upper/lower and brakes/flash hiders so we have one pair of VZ setup with RDS/cowitness.
We have matched 5.45 Tantals with RDS/cowitness, and for 7.62 we intend to have a pair of exact match VZ setup the same.
Just different caliber on folding platform.
That's the plan anyway........
I ordered a third VZ from PSA Monday, that one I think will play with fixed stock on it, generally putz around with it, more of the classic look.
Plenty of shiny M67 to feed the little beasties:-)

[Kolme]

Gunzz,

Thanks for that update. Hopefully some will no longer need theirs and cancel. Otherwise not sure what other railed co witness option is available since NEA rails seem OOS.

[RSR]

I doubt CNC Warrior will allow a potentially substantial source of revenue to pass them buy -- bottom line, Bonesteel's ordering strategy is screwing them out of revenue I'm sure they could use.  They're a small shop, but good folks. 

I'd encourage folks to keep reaching to them and expressing interest.  I don't know all their legal mumbojumbo w/ Bonesteel regarding this item that he designed, but if he doesn't have retail exclusivity, they can probably sell through their store. 

I conveyed an interest in possibly doing a group buy for this forum (they've done that for product runs with other forums), mentioned the number of VZ2008s sold this year (over 12.5k, not including OOW, ORF, and CSA rifles), and that I was pretty confident they could sell a 250 run w/in a month and 500 run w/in 3 months.  And if they can't do a group buy, even just selling through their online retail store would be amazing (sure Bonesteel would make commission off of those too, if allowed).

I also mentioned that I was backordered since July and Bonesteel supposedly contacted everyone for his 100# order just received...  And I also mentioned his comms issues (links to some of the many -- anyone heard from/bonesteel still in business threads here), which is completely opposite how CNC Warrior does business.

So yeah, keep pinging CNC Warrior and let them know you'd like to buy the VZ58 forend rails and hopefully we can get it moving.

[cciman]

I got a email notification of product from bonesteel last week, but it was too late.  I got tired of waiting for an update, and no response to queries, so I did not re-enter my Feb order.

For those who want an upper handguard rail for the VZ58, take a look at Precision Reflex #02-VZ58-- very tight fitting top rail with option to add side rails, very solid aluminum and steel construction-  solid enough for optics.
pri-mounts.com     Made in Ohio too!

[Kolme]

Cciman,

They don't charge until they ship right? Aka my CC shouldn't have been hit with a number right? Also, is that precision reflex rail allowing you to cowitness?

[cciman]

Unlike the AR, the concept of "co-witness though the optic" with an AK style rifle is not existent.  The design of most AR sights, even the irons, are raised above the level of the barrel- with the barrel the same level as the stock comb.  The AK-VZ design places the sights as close to the level of the barrel but drops comb of the stock below the barrel.  In order to "co-witness" a optic would need to mount below the level of the sight.  A paradigm shift is needed with AK style guns- thus the challenge in optic mount designs.

Most AK style optic designs attempt to have you look at the stock irons UNDER the optic mounting.   The huge downside of this concept is that your head will be too high for proper cheek weld if you are using an optic.  The VZ seems to be different to me- the stock comb on my gun is actually too tall for iron sight use- more designed for a very low mount optic.

Cciman,

They don't charge until they ship right? Aka my CC shouldn't have been hit with a number right? Also, is that precision reflex rail allowing you to cowitness?

[RSR]

Unlike the AR, the concept of "co-witness though the optic" with an AK style rifle is not existent.  The design of most AR sights, even the irons, are raised above the level of the barrel- with the barrel the same level as the stock comb.  The AK-VZ design places the sights as close to the level of the barrel but drops comb of the stock below the barrel.  In order to "co-witness" a optic would need to mount below the level of the sight.  A paradigm shift is needed with AK style guns- thus the challenge in optic mount designs.

Most AK style optic designs attempt to have you look at the stock irons UNDER the optic mounting.   The huge downside of this concept is that your head will be too high for proper cheek weld if you are using an optic.  The VZ seems to be different to me- the stock comb on my gun is actually too tall for iron sight use- more designed for a very low mount optic.

I disagree. 

The VZ58 was made for moderate stature/malnurished/not fully grown folks (both men and women of military age, teenager plus) in Eastern Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Africa. 

The key to using this, like the AK is
1) Proper stock mounting -- bring the rifle to your head; high stock mount and roll shoulders forward:
Exact timestamp: http://youtu.be/x-fDRqPeCwc?t=2m46s

http://youtu.be/x-fDRqPeCwc

2) Due to the way the stock angles, you're still going to be too high up (close to the receiver) on the stock. That's why the stock pads, or spacers (VZ58 rifle.com sells them and I have about 1" on a fixed folder on one of my rifles too that does the same), are pretty essential if wanting to best utilize irons.



See here for my thoughts on the stock pads: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=64902.msg438206#msg438206

Highly recommend this one over the UTG for the metal stock: https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/2519

UTG for fixed stocks.

I have two actually.

This one is a softer rubber: http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Model-Combat-Butt-Pad/dp/B002TUSK06

This one is a harder rubber but comes w/ a strap: https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/2519

Slightly different grip nubs on the back too, so possibly one is for wood stocks and one is for for folders?

I put the strap on the softer rubber one since I decided that the softer provides better recoil absorption but YMMV.  First had the softer and decided I wanted to try one with the velcro strap for a cleaner look than the paracord I'd been using...

Update:
Looked at the Apex one, it came in a guntec USA package: http://guntecusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_85&product_id=254

The Amazon came in a UTG package, so look like different products.

FSE's page tells you more about it being modeled after a soviet grenade launching buttpad (and theirs might be a third addition, or the same one guntec is repackaging):
http://www.fseusa.com/product_info.php?products_id=339

I got one of the buttpads like Zahal is selling on ebay (here is an example: http://www.zahal.org/products/butt-stock-pad-for-original-vz-58-folding-stock?path_parent=153451 )

Basically, it's cheap somewhat soft plastic like bargain brand tupperware lids.  Maybe adds 1/8-1/4" to the length of pull.  Other than the small nubs for grip, I really don't see the point.  It allows the stock to fold and looks more substantial in pics, but save your $.

My advice is to go w/ the Apex one above for the folding stock.  Higher quality, better made, and cushions recoil but w/o all the bounce of the softer one.  I'd recommend only running the softer UTG one on your fixed stocks as the Apex one with a more scalloped stock attachment hole and being denser rubber is less likely to fit.

[gunzz]

I agree that co-witness on the AK used to be a problem, but now in 2014 there are several solutions from several companies.
I have a side mount PKA Venezuela on my Bulgarian AK74, co-witnesses through the optics beautifully:
http://russianoptics.net/PK-A_Venez.html
On my Tantals that don't have a side rail, I run a Texas Weapons Systems top cover with Primary Arms RGBII rds, again co-witnesses through the optic:
http://www.theakforum.net/forums/106-primary-arms/165361-new-tws-dog-leg-scope-rail-primary-arms-md-06-bundle-limited-quantity.html
In the FAQ at www.primaryarms.com they have a link for "co-witness explained", here's a pic from that FAQ link:
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/James7800/cowit1-1.jpg

Wanting to co-witness on my VZ's, we apparently have a single source of supply solution with the Bonesteel products. At least from my searches here that seems to be the case, I found a thread where RSR says NEA/Troy (which is nla), or Bonesteel are the options. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.
Bottom line, there are several co-witness through the optic solutions for AK owners, apparently only one such solution for us guys in the VZ corner.

[RSR]

Troy is no longer available. 

Northeast arms is, but you have to order from Canada. 

Troy was ~$200 with 2 short rails included. 

NEA from Canada comes w/o rails, so it's about $270 US plus shipping if you go that route and need 3...

NEA's online store, primary retail outlet:
http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14_288_290&zenid=46281af888c92773c3d0d0b4bf082ffd

Set is out of stock there, but someone on here ordered recently from these folks: http://www.kellysonline.ca/products/nea-aluminum-handguard-for-vz-58