75B or P-01

[Canuck44]

Larry I have witnessed two.  Both at IPSC matches.  Both with CZ Shadows.  Both using the finger pinch method.  In both cases the sides of the hammer were oily and in both cases the hammer fell, hit the firing pin and the gun went boom.

When you pull the trigger and release the hammer the FPB is disengaged.  If it were not so the gun would never go off.    The reason they sell guns without a FPB is you can get a slightly lighter trigger when you don't have a FPB to move out of the way.If you want to think otherwise, fill your boots.

Merry Christmas

Bob 

[Siliconian]

Merry Christmas, everyone!
Thank you all for sharing your experience and thoughts.
I went to the range yesterday and tried both 75B and P-01.

75B shot slightly better, but the difference was less than 3" vs 4" of 10 round group at 10 yards, which I don't really care that much for a carry gun.
75B's down swept beavertail left a bruise on my web. If I don't want an SAO gun, I am out of choice.
What amazed me was that P-01's recoil (which was the major concern before) was much less than I expected.
I checked how decocker worked and felt OK with it.

So my decision is to get P-01 for now.
If one day I can figure out how to convert SAO to DA/SA or I can live with SAO, I may buy an SAO.

[Blackwatch]

Congrats on deciding to get a P01 

[GRB5111]

Don't think you can go wrong with your decision. I have both, and the P-01 is every bit as good a shooter as the 75B. Once I get into a zone at the range, I can be as accurate with the P-01 as any other gun I own. I love its balance and ergonomics. As you say, recoil is very easily managed due to the P-01's weight and balance. You're going to enjoy this pistol!

[Ruber]

Congrats! If I were looking for a modern 9, that would be it!

Get some trigger time in and it will slick up nice and your groups will tighten up nicely too.




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[Alpha Sierra]

Nearly impossible to get a ND when done properly and even when done incorrectly with firing pin blocks.

1.  Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible.  There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2.  You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.

[Chris9472]

Nearly impossible to get a ND when done properly and even when done incorrectly with firing pin blocks.

1.  Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible.  There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2.  You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.

I have heard reports of decockers failing and ND's happening, although they are very rare. Nothing of a man-made mechanical nature is 100% guaranteed. Murphy's Law seems to apply to firearms particularly well.

[gdawgs56]

Chris, I agree, but also when using the decocker it doesn't lift the firing pin block so even if the decocker fails, the firing pin won't move because of the Firing Pin Block.

[Chris9472]

Chris, I agree, but also when using the decocker it doesn't lift the firing pin block so even if the decocker fails, the firing pin won't move because of the Firing Pin Block.

I guess it depends on the design and quality of the gun. Apparently, not all are created equal.

[larryflew]

Larry I have witnessed two.  Both at IPSC matches.  Both with CZ Shadows.  Both using the finger pinch method.  In both cases the sides of the hammer were oily and in both cases the hammer fell, hit the firing pin and the gun went boom.

When you pull the trigger and release the hammer the FPB is disengaged.  If it were not so the gun would never go off.    The reason they sell guns without a FPB is you can get a slightly lighter trigger when you don't have a FPB to move out of the way.If you want to think otherwise, fill your boots.

Merry Christmas

Bob

So a dozen became 2...... .that I believe as have seen 3 with the DA/SA light pull double tap as mentioned. Still impossible for ND when your finger or thumb is under the hammer.  Try the slipping fingers I mentioned.  If you do a quick pull on the trigger rather than holding it down its likely the block is in place before the finger slip. Of course don't do it loaded..

Thus in 40+ years of shooting with literally thousand of shooter I have not seen one and assuming you shoot a lot you have seen 2.  Kind of a low percentage total and no others coming forward with lots more.

[larryflew]

1.  Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible.  There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2.  You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.

A decocker is mechanical and you think there is zero chance??

Read the posts again and give the example a try - quick trigger pull and then fingers slip which BTW no one condoned, just said that doing it wrong FPB could still save you.  And there is an actual zero chance when done correctly which puts a thumb or finger in the way of the trigger Making it more likely to have a mechanical decocker failure than manually decocking correctly.

[gdawgs56]

Larry, like I said above, even if the decocker fails there still is the FPB.

I don't see what the point of this discussion Is. The reason they make a decocker and then also a manual safety version is so people can choose and aren't forced to do something they don't like. To each his own.

[Ruber]

You all ever shoot a BDM (Browning Dual Mode)?  One of my nicest shooting, but most bizarre guns.  In DA/SA mode, the single "combo lever" closed the slide, drops the hammer, and puts the gun on safe.  Scares me ever time I do it...  It's firing pin safety is not a block, but pulling the trigger actually lifts the firing pin up into position, dropping it out of the way when trigger is released...

We'd have a field day with it here...


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[Canuck44]

1.  Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible.  There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2.  You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.

A decocker is mechanical and you think there is zero chance??

Read the posts again and give the example a try - quick trigger pull and then fingers slip which BTW no one condoned, just said that doing it wrong FPB could still save you.  And there is an actual zero chance when done correctly which puts a thumb or finger in the way of the trigger Making it more likely to have a mechanical decocker failure than manually decocking correctly.

Larry you remind of the sage one experience a thousand times does not make one thosand experiences.  As Alpha Sierra has pointed out you clearly don't understand how the FPB works because if you did you would not be making the comments you insist on doing.  The 2 dozen did not become 2 the dozen or more still exist, you challenged me on how many I have seen and the answer is two.  Both at IPSC Club matches.  The others come from well respected IDPA and IPSC officials for whom I have some faith in that they are not prone to exaggeration. 

If you want to find out how the AD works, next time you are at the range, point your gun down range, cock your CZ, place your finger and thumb on the sides of the hammer so it freely slips from your fingers and pull the trigger.  Just one caution get your thumb and finger out of the slide area or your next stop may be the hospital. 

Some folks have to pee on an electric fence to see if you get a shock while others simply accept the fact it might.  You seem to be the former.

Merry Christmas

Bob

[larryflew]

Exactly why I said to try it as I have.

Originally I asked for how many here have actually seen that type of ND and specifically said not just heard about and should not have changed it to just heard about. You said add a couple dozen which did become 2 that you saw.
You can add a dozen or so IPSC shooters on our AD list.
Still no others coming through with one's they have seen or even heard about.

Not sure how you think thousands of different shooters, Different rounds and different events = one experience done many times?

No one has ever claimed the slipped fingers would be stopped every time as it is stupid (IMO) to even decock with that unreliable method.  The point is as stated, if you do a quick pull on the trigger and release and then your fingers slip the FPB can still save your azz if you are lucky. Pretty much works like a decocker. Since you already released the trigger it will stop at half cocked.

The original point I was disputing is when it was said its more dangerous to manually decock which if decocked correctly is not possible as the NDs would be zero as something (thumb or finger) is in the way 100% of the time vs the supposed 100% reliability of a mechanical device used to decock.
and the decocking procedure for CZ safety models is one mistake away from a negligent discharge.