CZC Comp hammer vs. CGW Race hammer with CGW SRK parts

[CAK]

Received my CGW hammer this week to do a direct comparison against the CZC comp hammer when installed with CGW SRK (Short Reset Kit).

I'm running the entire CGW SRK kit, heavy sear spring and 15lb hammer spring.

Running the CZC Comp hammer with the SRK, while it works, for some reason the action is sloppy, the CGW disconnector seams floppy and it just does not feel right. I think this may have to do with a slight alteration to hammer geometry and with regards to the disconnector placement on the CZC hammer but I'm not entirely positive about that. With my gun I could only use the CZC heavy sear spring. When I installed the CGW heavy sear spring (heavier than the CZC) the trigger would bottom out on the frame in SA. The SA hook on the CZC hammer appears to be a bit further back as compared to the CGW hammer. The CZC hammer does work well with the stock disconnector and lifter, you just loose that great short reset and reduced SA pre-travel the CGW SR kit provides.

Swapping out to the CGW hammer with the CGW SRK, the entire action of the gun feels much better. Everything feels tighter, no slop in the action, no weird clicks and binds like I was having with the CZC hammer coupled with the CGW SRK. Clearly these parts were designed to run together.

So how do the triggers feel when we talk about the break?

CZC Comp hammer is worlds better than the factory hammer, creep in SA is reduced significantly and DA seems smoother as well. Good decocking.

CGW race hammer is even more crisp in SA with almost no perceivable creep and a nice crisp break. On SA feel alone, the CGW hammer feels better to me. DA improved as well. Poor decocking.

Final thoughts and observations.

Whatever changes they have made to the CZC Comp hammer, it decocks immensely better than the CGW hammer. The CZC Comp hammer gives two distinct motions and drops the hammer on the decock hook gently....I like this a lot! The CGW, on my P-07 slams the hammer down hard right to the decock hammer hook as the disconnector fails to pick it up in time. I feel that slamming the hammer down on the decock hook might be asking for trouble in the long range. My fear is that it may eventually damage the sear pin and possibly wallow out the polymer frame the sear pin rides in. (edit: It appears the sear pin is supported by the steel rear cage so this may not be an issue). If this was a steel CZ I'd be less worried of damaging the frame. I'm not sure what my parts set up will be long term but I'm running the CGW hammer and SRK for now.

In conclusion, if you are ok with the factory reset and long pre-travel you would be fine using either hammer with a superior decock going to the CZC Comp hammer and a slightly better break in SA going to the CGW hammer. If you want to use the CGW Short Reset Kit I highly recommend pairing it with the CGW hammer. As mentioned above, it's clear that David designed these parts together as a system, as with my particular P-07, the CGW hammer with the CGW SRK just feels superior when used in conjunction.


Now if we could get that decocking motion of the CZC Comp hammer with the CGW hammer... things would be perfect!

Disclaimer, these are my observations when using these parts on my particular P-07.

Cheers!



 

[Tok36]

Thank you for the comparison. Interesting stuff.

[FakeCZName]

CAK: I like the way the decocker works on my Cajunized P-07 (with CGW hammer and SRKit).

The hammer does indeed fall into the half-cocked position without being slowed by the Decocker, but I have three Bersa pistols that also let the hammer fall to the half-cocked position. They are designed to work that way and have never heard anything from the Bersa fanatics about wear or problems with Decocker function way down the road after thousands of rounds. These Bersas are steel pistols.

But like you, I would prefer a softer fall. But my guess is that it will not cause the wear problems you are concerned about. I suppose one could let the hammer down gently with the thumb, but that defeats the safety purpose of the Decocker.

If the hammer fall from using the Decocker does cause any problems, hopefully folks will let us know here.

[CAK]

CAK: I like the way the decocker works on my Cajunized P-07 (with CGW hammer and SRKit).

The hammer does indeed fall into the half-cocked position without being slowed by the Decocker, but I have three Bersa pistols that also let the hammer fall to the half-cocked position. They are designed to work that way and have never heard anything from the Bersa fanatics about wear or problems with Decocker function way down the road after thousands of rounds. These Bersas are steel pistols.


If the hammer fall from using the Decocker does cause any problems, hopefully folks will let us know here.

I wouldn't worry to much with steel frames. The polymer frame does cause me some concern but having looked closer, it appears where the sear pin rides through the frame is reinforced by steel on either side from the rear cage. This very well may be a non-issue, just something I'll keep an eye on.

Having said that, if I had a choice, retaining the soft fall on the decocker would be my preference.

For now, just enjoying the CGW parts and non-sloppy firing group parts 

[wrigley]

Thanks for this!  I already went with CGW for all my parts but I always wondered what the differences were.

[armoredman]

i have all CGW work done on my P-09 and trust it perfectly. Hundreds of rounds later, there is no apparent damage of any kind. Joe L has well north of 20K rounds through his with CGW parts with no damage, and I can't remember the last name of a major instructor, Mike, who has over 40K rounds with no reported damage. I trust CGW work with my life - my P-09 is my authorized off duty sidearm.
i have never owned anything built built by CZ Custom, but I have handled some in the past, excellent work.

[Tok36]

i have all CGW work done on my P-09 and trust it perfectly. Hundreds of rounds later, there is no apparent damage of any kind. Joe L has well north of 20K rounds through his with CGW parts with no damage, and I can't remember the last name of a major instructor, Mike, who has over 40K rounds with no reported damage. I trust CGW work with my life - my P-09 is my authorized off duty sidearm.
i have never owned anything built built by CZ Custom, but I have handled some in the past, excellent work.

^^Mike Pannone. The thread about his P-09.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=69565.0

[schmeky]

I''ll make a single comment on this thread:  to come to the conclusion that decocking a modern CZ will lead to damage of any kind with anyone's hammer is simply absurd.  It can be dangerous when an opinion is treated as a fact.

The forces of a hammer being propelled with significant energy during the cocking cycle against a compressed 20# hammer spring onto the sear and sear pin are several orders of magnitude greater than decocking. 

[CAK]

I''ll make a single comment on this thread:  to come to the conclusion that decocking a modern CZ will lead to damage of any kind with anyone's hammer is simply absurd.  It can be dangerous when an opinion is treated as a fact.

No where in my post regarding my observations of the two hammers did I say frame damage is an absolute outcome and in fact edited my post to add that the sear pin is housed in the rear cage supported by steel, so it may be a non-issue. What I'm saying is when an aftermarket part alters the design function of the weapon and imparts force it was possibly not designed for makes me raise an eyebrow, simple as that.

I don't appreciate being chided on this post and in private messages because I voiced my observation and opinion (not fact) and clearly stated so. If you don't agree why not just politely explain why you think it isn't an issue?

I appreciate the work involved in supplying us alternative and enhanced parts for our CZ's and I'm pretty sure my post regarding your CGW Race Hammer and SRK was a pretty glowing review of CGW parts and how they function nicely when paired together.

I've had my P-07 torn down and reassembled more times than I can remember trying different part combinations to see what works, what doesn't and what issues one may have by using parts that may not have been designed to work together for the benefit of the CZ community.

If I'm to receive a beat down because I posted my opinion (clearly indicating not a fact) on an open message board, so be it.  For the record, every time I've had a question regarding CGW parts, a phone call to CGW has always been my action out of respect.

[CAK]

The forces of a hammer being propelled with significant energy during the cocking cycle against a compressed 20# hammer spring onto the sear and sear pin are several orders of magnitude greater than decocking.

Thank you for the explanation, much appreciated.

[Blue9]

I very much appreciate your review of the CZC and CGW parts - very informative, and many here only had one example or the other so a good comparison was in order.

I am a huge fan of CGW and CZC. I have also had extremely good experiences with CGW in my pursuits to customize a 75B and P01 with David's parts. I know that customers can become annoying and agitate the shop owner, but in this case, I think the review was very positive and helpful. A better response would have been why the concern about damage was not founded instead of adding the lecture about spreading false information.

Just my 2 cents...

I currently have a CZC hammer on my P09. When I get my P07 the CZC hammer will go there. The P07 will be CC/SD only, and I will get the CGW race hammer, xheave sear spring, DA springs, SRK, and over-sized roller for my P09. I am excited to be able to compare and contrast those fine options!

[FakeCZName]

Blue9: I carry my P-07 every day for SD. Every night I put a light on it before dark and put it beside my bed.

I enjoy the range shooting, but this P-07 is for Defense. I have all CGW parts in it for just this very purpose--to make it faster and more accurate for self-defense. Since I installed the Xtra Strength sear spring with the CGW hammer, hammer spring, Short Reset kit, 18# recoil spring and stainless rod--I have had flawless performance and great accuracy. Shot it some today. Again, flawless.

It was good before I installed the CGW parts--but now it is better.

[Blue9]

No doubt! I am thinking of just using the czc hammer in the p07 just for simplicity's sake since I already own it. Then, I want to finish cajunizing my p09 since I want this to be a comp gun.

[FakeCZName]

Blue9: I sure don't want to start an argument or offend anyone who takes their range/competition guns very seriously; as I'm sure many do.

But here's what I cannot figure out. If a person is willing to fully Cajunize their range gun to make it more accurate and faster--for competition or just for fun, why wouldn't that person be willing to fully Cajunize their carry gun for Self-Defense?

Especially--and here's what I can't figure out--especially if your range gun is a P-09 and your carry gun for saving your life and the lives of others is a P-07----why wouldn't you want the trigger pull and function on both guns to be fully Cajunized so that when you practice at the range or in competition you are actually getting in practice to save your life with your Defense gun that you carry every day?

I have already answered the question for myself of which is more important. If I do ever get into competition, it will be for the purpose of training to become more proficient for Defense.

[Blue9]

Blue9: I sure don't want to start an argument or offend anyone who takes their range/competition guns very seriously; as I'm sure many do.

But here's what I cannot figure out. If a person is willing to fully Cajunize their range gun to make it more accurate and faster--for competition or just for fun, why wouldn't that person be willing to fully Cajunize their carry gun for Self-Defense?

Especially--and here's what I can't figure out--especially if your range gun is a P-09 and your carry gun for saving your life and the lives of others is a P-07----why wouldn't you want the trigger pull and function on both guns to be fully Cajunized so that when you practice at the range or in competition you are actually getting in practice to save your life with your Defense gun that you carry every day?

I have already answered the question for myself of which is more important. If I do ever get into competition, it will be for the purpose of training to become more proficient for Defense.

I hear ya, and generally agree, but I have some gray area in that line of thought and here is why (this will get long winded!):

I am willing to customize a race gun to the point of failure (if my skills ever get to the point that I need to tune it that far). For example, I would be willing to accept springs so light in a race gun that I have to use soft federal primers, but with a SD gun I want to hedge that risk and use a more powerful spring than is actually needed to set the primer off. This goes for anything mechanical. Cars, for example, are designed a certain way, but hot rodders are willing to accept less reliability for more speed.

I also have a fiber optic front sight on my p09, but will install tritium on the p07 for the same reasoning.

I am not currently a gamer due to time constraints (work and graduate school take almost all of my time....then there is the whole wife thing! ? at some point though I would like to try out some IDPA and/or USPSA, and try to do well in that sport.

One of the many great things about CGW is you can Cajun up your rig and still keep it safe and reliable, which is fine for an SD gun; however, David does offer some competition only mods and those are labeled as such for a reason. Now that is the extreme... There is plenty you can do to improve your carry gun, and that would still work well for both competition and SD.

That's why I say gray area...it is not a black and white line, and my p09 is serving house duty now, but my only mods are sights and a czc hammer, and it has proven reliable with those mods. If I really try to mod out the p09 to those extreme levels I will then dub it as range only and likely get a second p09 to keep it company for more serious work :-).

If I ever get to shoot enough to compete with the upper ranks in competition (locally), I will be so far ahead of the curve that the last thing I will be concerned with in SD is the trigger weight and recoil spring weight of my carry gun vs competition gun.

Again, I'd have no problem using CGW to mod my carry gun, and would likely end up doing so with SD-appropriate mods, but for now, I have a czc hammer that could be dropped into the p07 to give me some modest improvements without me worrying about mucking up anything.

Remember, that the premise about keeping your competition gun the same as your SD gun is the same idea of only shooting one type of pistol/firearm, because, after all wouldn't shooting multiple types of firearms at the range have the same effect (reducing your odds at achieving muscle memory) as competing with one pistol and carrying another?

Just food for thought, and you did not offend me in any way. I respect (most) opinions that differ from my own, and your thoughts are very valid.

Did anyone make it through all of that!!? Seemed like I typed for a fort night!