Initial Review of MAGWEDGE Full Rail for VZ58

[CitizenPete]

PICTURES TO BE INSERTED with edits to this post...

Prelude:
I spoke to the manufacturer (MagWEDGE) for the good part of an hour today.  This rail design is a work in progress and the next iteration of the design is already being tested.   There have been several designs tested in this most difficult trial and error process. The current rail, manufactured in a limited run, has been tested resulting a 2% FTEJ (Fail to EJect)  So out of 100 rounds fired, 2 rounds will fail to properly eject on the TEST RIFLE. YMMV.   Different results have been witnessed with other rifles, and results as bad as 10% has been recorded. Based on our converation, I may potentially try to make some modifications of my own to the rail. 

These are initial unbiased thoughts and some photos regarding the MAGWEDGE rail. 

THE RAIL HAS NOT YET BEEN TESTED BY ME FOR OPERATION.  Testing will reveal the crux of this products usefullness, however I thought some intital pics and discussionmight be helpful for anyone considering buying one - or waiting for the next version.  The price was $155 including shipping from Canada to Ohio, so other rear cover rail options are in the same price range, give or take.  The next version will be priced a little higher do to the investment in development.  A patent application for the design has been filed.

Perhaps it's the functionality, AR / AK envy, or the pics of the modernized VZ.58 prototype, a top rail on the VZ58 appears to be desired by some shooters and has reamained illusive to designers.  MAGWEDGE of Canada created a top rail for the SKS a while ago, which was the inspiration and setp stone for this product. 
Did they get it right, on this current version, I don't know. 

When a package arrived from Canada yesterday and I was amazed how incredibly light it was.  So the first positive I noted while un-boxing is that this rail is very light. 

The rail appears to be very solid, made from aluminum, machining and coating seams good.  The rail is to spec and it was not difficult to add or remove mounts.  It actually looks a lot cooler than I thought it would -- like it belongs on the VZ.

The package received included the rail, a piece of Velcro with adhesive backing (more on this below), a dowel pin for mounting in the sight block (also acts as a swivel point, replacing the sight sight leaf and spring), a longer rear QD retaining pin to replace the stock pin, which goes through the rail, the receiver, and the rear spring top cover.  The rail does not replace the rear spring top cover.





As I have posted prior ( http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=69733.msg486620#msg486620 ), the number one issue with putting anything over the VZ58 receiver is the ejection of spent cases.  Cases come out of the VZ58 violently and sometimes chaotically at various angles, (but mostly forward right). I was hoping that MAGWEDGE figured this out and addressed some of the related issues:

1. cases bouncing off the rail jamming back into the action (most critical issue)
2. wear of the rail material from cases hitting it
3. protection of items mounted on the rail.
4. constantly directing cases out the side, enabling use of brass catchers, etc.

I am not certain (without range testing) what was accomplished with this current version as the MAGWEDGE instruction included contains a disclaimer, however the 2%(+) FTEJ and rail strikes on side protruding optics were discussed on the phone.

The rail has a very thin width (just the width of the rail itself with no wider base) and has an angled deflector area milled into it above the ejection path.  Because the rail is not wide anything hanging over the side of the  rail (esp. on the right side) might get clobbered by the ejected cases.  So unless you have a thin scope end or rear mount (or mount way out front) the real estate over the ejection port may be unusable on this version. 

Again this is something that is stated in the current MAGWEDGE instructions included with this version.



The included piece of Velco is meant to be stuck to the rail deflector in order to protect it from damage from ejected cases. While this might work, being replaced as necessary, I hoped for a removable piece of steel liner held in place by screws (even for a few more bucks).  Evidently he added a small screw to the rear of the milled area which was a high strike point for cases.

Installation:
The sight leaf and spring are removed and the front of the rail fits nicely into the sight block. A roll pin inserts through the rail into the sight block and acts to secure it in place and as a hinge to lift up the rail to gain access for maintenance and cleaning.

Enthusiasm noted in another thread:

I have a kwik rail on a custom SKS and it is a solid product. Has not yet caused a jam, or FTE or an ejected caseing falling back into the action.
BUT the rail replaces your iron sights. complicates takedown, it's awkward when hinged forward.

Just for initial review I set it it on a VZ.58 carbine because it was already stripped and the sight was off it.  I just put in the carrier into the reciever, without the rear cover, and set the rail in place.   This way I could get a feel of how everything lined up, how it looked and visualize any potential interferences.

Then I put a couple QD optics on the rail, positionaing them on the rail in order to avoid situating vital parts over the probable path of ejection.  I would consider this setup as an actual application for the rail.   
In this case I used an ACOG optic with a ATN NV scope adapter, something I can easily operate on the top rail of my SIG 556R.   It appears at the most optimal location for the optics, the selector knob on the ATN NV scope might still get hammered.









For a little general product background, MAGWEDGE posted a video in 2013 of their SKS rail here. (The VZ58 rail attaches the same way) : https://youtu.be/7eSJMUCfriY?t=16s

Pros:

• Light weight
  Decent Quality
  looks good.
  Lots of mounting real estate*
  It exists currently as an option that can be purchased
  It is a design in progress and it is being improved upon
  The maker is working hard on this and is receptive to feedback
  

Possible Cons:

• Known ejection issues - at least 2% failure to eject
  Thin width rail leaves items exposed to cases
  *Positioning of optic mounts and accessories is limited to rear and forward of ejection port
  Cumbersome access for cleaning and maintenance
  Rail wear protected with Velcro strip
  The maker has limited access to other VZ58 Variants for testing

[Magwedge]

Hello guys, and thanks for the review Pete. 

I figured I had better join this forum and see what is going on as I keep having people call me and tell me about it, so here I am.

As people have already mentioned we make a top notch rail for the SKS rifle and are trying to create a similar solution for the VZ58. The full length version works well enough on my 2008 model (0-2% stovepipe) but I have heard from two CSA owners who have had much worse experience and a lot of inconsistency. This is a concern but still a very small sample size, so it may be a bit early to decide that the rail will not work or cannot be made to work on a CSA, but any purchaser wishing to fit one of these to a CSA should be aware of our experience with these, however limited.

I do like the full length model as a rail system which offers some protection for optics, but I am beginning to believe that 100% reliability may not be achievable with this type of design. We are in the testing stages of a new model which we believe will be more reliable but may not offer the same degree of protection for your optics.

Thanks to all for your interest in our products and I will check in from time to time to see if people have any questions.

[CitizenPete]

Magwedge rail was installed on vz2008 for testing.  I first monitored / tested the flight of the cases without the rail and modified the ejector with a DREMEL in order to aid in directing the case to the right and not so high.  Originally the cases were ejecting straight forward and up.

Optic mount was a bit tight fitting the rail, which is good.

Hope to get some test time at the range weather permitting.  I did an initial test in the back yard with 40 rounds of Russian white-box fired with cases ejecting flawlessly out 5-6 feet out the side, with no interference with the scope or mount.

How I modified (DREMELED) the ejector:



There is a very slight movement of the rail tilting side to side, so the range test at 100 yards will be telling.  This is unacceptable, esp. if it loosens up more with use.  If the zero moves, I will replace the removable locking pin with a machine screw with washer and nylock wing nut (if I can find one that fits) to secure any movement, then RnR and retest zero.

The rail lifts almost straight up so access and cleaning are not an issue. The front is secured in the sight block with a roll pin and the rear (currently) with a removable pin.





Will post more results later.

[Magwedge]

Can you say a little more about the mod to the ejector? Is this a standard improvement of ejection for the rifle, or are you modding the rail?

[GrendelGene]

It looks like a great concept! 

[RSR]

Equal and opposite reaction...  The ejector face profile affects the angle of performance.  Looks like he removed some extra off the right side (mine have a slight angle that way to start) to make the casing go more to the right side and then some from the bottom to make it shoot lower to the right as well...   

[Magwedge]

Well we have had some stove piping issues with the CSA rifles, so I am wondering if this ejector mod will be the answer. 

[CitizenPete]

Can you say a little more about the mod to the ejector? Is this a standard improvement of ejection for the rifle, or are you modding the rail?

Haven't modified the rail, like we had discussed on the phone. May not be a need to.  I was afraid that the cases would spin up out of (off of) the rail and strike the optic, so as we discussed, I was considering some sort of replaceable sheet metal deflector (held in place by a few recessed screws). If that is required then it will move down the list of things to do, as I have a bunch of other projects going on right now.

The ejector mod is a DREMEL tuning effort, that has immediate visual feedback, so it's fast and easy.

So, I Modified the ejector to give the rail a chance to work.  Originally the cases were ejecting straight up and forward -- not even to the right.  There are a bunch of tweeks that these Century vz2008 rifles could use, but for the rail to have a fighting chance with case ejection, I wanted to mod the ejector to allow spent cases to interact with the rail as designed.  So the angles were cut to be more pronounced.   

Depending on the % of jams I get after 100-200 rounds (tomorrow?) I may mod the ejector some more.  It's a replaceable part so experimentation is no risk to the gun.  I was going to drag the gun around behind my Subaru anyway, but I got it to cycle.

[CitizenPete]

Well we have had some stove piping issues with the CSA rifles, so I am wondering if this ejector mod will be the answer. 

Don't know..

"Normal" ejection path on the sa. vz.58 sends the cases up, forward and off to the right a bit, and as you know, quite a distance.  I'm not certain the vz2008s have anything normal or consistant about them, including ejection path. This particular vz2008 was ejecting up and straight forward of the gun.  He he, theoretically you could possibly shoot a case falling down with the next shot. 

I had cases going back into the action on my CSa sa. vz.58.  It's an SBR, but built on the carbine length receiver with a shorter barrel and modified CSA manufactured gas block (tuned for the barrel length) -- it's not the shorter pistol receiver -- so it should be the same as the rifle.   I sent Dan at Czechpoint a video and he caught the problem:  The rounds were hitting the optic and going back into the action.  Optic is a Trijicon ACOG and Killflash side mounted with the 2 part RS Regulate "AKOG" and RS VZ mount -- the AKOG mount set all the way back in the VZ mount.  By simply removing the Killflash off the front of the ACOG everything worked fine.  SO... I never modified the ejector and kept it as delivered.  Perhaps that story can tell you something.

As I mentioned to you on the phone the Czechpoint "Bolero video" taken with a high speed camera might give you some insight on the various violent/chaotic ejection path(s) the ejecting cases take.  It appears that the 10 case ejections shown in the video that no two are the exactly same - so its certainly a challenge for you.  Some seem to leap straight up or to the side with out spinning, while some flip end over end, while still others hit the carrier and change direction. Modifying the ejector angles may be a logical place to consider making mods for case ejection paths to coincide with the rail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PqAk-qianA

Perhaps you can purchase a few ejectors and modify them different ways for testing the best results.  First without the rail installed and then adding it, like I did?  Unfortunately its not a snap in/out part.

[Magwedge]

Thanks Pete, I feel you have helped advance my cause quite a bit with that info.

It certainly explains why the CSA rifles are experiencing issues with my rail if their ejection pattern is so chaotic.

[CitizenPete]

So during this past week, after making mods to a vz2008 to allow it to cycle, I installed the Magwedge Kwikrail (current version). Saturday With the help of one of my shooting buddies we tested about 12 different makes/types of ammunition through the rifle with the rail attached. 

I had two jams with RUSSIAN white box steel case toward the end of the shooting day after finishing multiple brands of ammo and multiple mag dumps after that.  All told during the week I went through 300+ rounds with just the two jams. The jams were the result of cases being caught between the carrier and the front of the receiver opening... And I am assuming this a cause of the rail and not some other issue the gun was having, but I could be wrong.

The ejector was modified on this rifle to help accommodate the ejection with the Magwedge rail. (see previous post).

Rounds were leaving the rifle primarily in three different paths. High to the front right 5-10 feet; high directly to right almost straight up~60 deg. ; and low sideway out to the right.  No cases struck the optic mount or optic. There were some slight marks at the rear of the ejection port on the rail. Very successful test.

Note: the modified vz2008 cycled well: there was one mag that had a dry spring that stuck and caused a feed issue; and EBR 220gr subsonic rounds did not cycle the gun (even with a suppressor installed), but this is not surprising or necessarily an issue with the gun.

Two things that need to be tuned on the MAGWEDGE rail installation:  Because of slight side to side movement of the rail mount on the sight block at the front roll pin connection, and a small amount of play at the rear take down pin, I believe a thin shim for the front and a machine screw with wing nut on the back might lock the rail more solidly to the receiver.  The movement at both points is very very slight and at 100 yards we banged away at an 8" ar500 plate and two other plates with no trouble all day.  The optic, a Primary Arms 1-6x scope held zero, but was aiming slightly to the left consistently ( it was pulled off another rifle, an AK, and utilized without major re-zeroing. )

3 of the ammo types tested had primers that can precipitate corrosion, so the gun was washed in boiling soapy water before getting fully cleaned with CLP/solvent and lubed, and the rail was able to be left on during the entire cleaning process as it swings fully up, hinged on the front roll pin, thus allowing complete access to the internals.

All this information and testing was captured on IPad video, so if I ever get a chance I may cobble it together as a successful demo of the rail.

At the end of the day I can say that the rail is a keeper,on this rifle, and it is consistently functioning without problems enough to be utilized for any service or operation that requires a full top rail for optic/whatever mounting. I will also test an optic with NV on the front end. 

YMMV.

[Magwedge]

So pleased to hear your test was successful ... thanks for a very thorough review. 

[JohnEd]

Excellent!  Thanks.

[CitizenPete]

Put another 100-150 rounds through the gun yesterday. (Don't know the round count exactly because I was switching between several firearms.) No jams or problems with the Kwikrail to report.

I added a thin aluminum shim in the left side of the sight block to stop the minor side to side movement of the rail attachment point and tapped the roll pin through it.  Also for the time being I replaced the QD pin with a SS socket head cap screw and nylon lock nut.  The rail is now rock solid on the receiver.

Anyone know a source for a lever nut or wing nut for 10-32 fine thread screw? Looking for 2 in Stainless Steel with nylon insert.

Will probably be at the 100 yard range tomorrow and I will re-zero the optic and run some more rounds through it.

[CitizenPete]

Another 180+ rounds with 3 cases caught in action. TulAmmo, Russian White Box.