Author Topic: Vz disconnector  (Read 4218 times)

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Offline Joel63

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Vz disconnector
« on: July 27, 2015, 10:14:16 AM »
Anyone here try this disconnector ?
I'm trying to decide if I want to send both my bolt carriers out for tabbing, or order these. Both rifles developed the gremlin, striker following the carrier forward.
http://www.vz58rifle.com/products/modifikovany-prerusovac-spouste-pro-cz858-a-sa-58/

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 04:40:12 PM »
Yes, I have tested it.  It works fine and I did not see the gremlin with it.  Albeit the test gun was already tabbed.

You can purchase it directly from Zendl, you don't have to buy it from VZ58Rifle.

Here are some past posts.  http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=63408.msg493030#msg493030

The Zendl disconnector works out to about $100 shipped direct from Zendl
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 04:45:53 PM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 05:10:58 PM »
Yes, I have tested it.  It works fine and I did not see the gremlin with it.  Albeit the test gun was already tabbed.

You can purchase it directly from Zendl, you don't have to buy it from VZ58Rifle.

Here are some past posts.  http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=63408.msg493030#msg493030

The Zendl disconnector works out to about $100 shipped direct from Zendl

Thanks Pete, I sent both my carriers out to be tabbed. Hopefully that takes care of it. If not I think this disconnector would be what I try next.

Offline Brasky

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 05:18:32 PM »
Get the carriers tabbed and install a non-century disconnector if the tab doesn't work

Offline TJNewton

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 07:36:53 PM »
Brasky, are you the one who had a bent Century disconnector?  If the disconnector is straight, what is the benefit of changing to a non-Century one?  What problems have people been having?  Mine have all worked fine, even before I had the carriers tabbed.

If you change to a non-Century disconnector in a VZ2008, are there going to be clearance problems due to the original rounded, taller shape?  Will the rounded part be worked down relatively flat after a good break in?  The third-generation Century disconnectors have the top filed flat and I assume it's due to the shallower receiver.  Interestingly, the earlier Century rifles, 1st and 2nd generations, had the rounded disconnector, but had the lion's share of reported Gremlins.  The Gremlin seemed to be solved with the third generation VZ2008's until the last PSA push where an unusual amount of issues arose, presumably since they were either rushed with production, they were scraping the bottom of the surplus parts barrel, or both. 

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2015, 09:09:24 PM »
Get the carriers tabbed and install a non-century disconnector if the tab doesn't work

Both rifles are parts kit builds done by me, CNC Warrior fire control parts. First issue I had after less than 50 rounds, the disconnector tab would not pull down the sear. It would slip off the side of the sear. I opened up the groove in the safety so the sear could be shimmed towards the left for better engagement. Also the little tab on the original disconnectors was more prominent, so I used them instead. Now that little tab has a good 90% contact with the sear Vs. about 10% it had prior, that problem was solved. Build #2 was in process at the time so I made the same changes before the first test firing.
All went well until part way thru mag 3, then the sear stopped catching and the striker was following the carrier forward.
I set that riffle aside, grabbed the other and it developed the same problem at about the same round count, go figure. I guess that's why ya'll call it a gremlin.
I hope after the carriers are tabbed they run well, I'm impressed with how these rifles handle but they need to be reliable or I will move them on.

Offline Brasky

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 09:15:52 PM »
Are the disconnectors grabbing the sear or sliding underneath?

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 10:12:42 PM »
Are the disconnectors grabbing the sear or sliding underneath?

They pull the sear down now. Before the fix, the sear was to far over towards the right side of the receiver, so the tab on the disconnector barely caught the sear. After some use, when pulling the trigger the disconnector started to kick to the left and slip off the sear. After my fix, I have good contact between the disconnector and sear so that problem is solved.
Now the sear is not catching the striker, striker follows the carrier into battery. My understanding, tabbing the carrier should cure this. Strange how this started to happen with both rifles at about the same round count. Can not duplicate the problem cycling the carrier by hand, but live firing it happens every shot.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 10:47:08 PM by Joel63 »

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2015, 10:04:24 AM »
Are the disconnectors grabbing the sear or sliding underneath?

They pull the sear down now. Before the fix, the sear was to far over towards the right side of the receiver, so the tab on the disconnector barely caught the sear. After some use, when pulling the trigger the disconnector started to kick to the left and slip off the sear. After my fix, I have good contact between the disconnector and sear so that problem is solved.
Now the sear is not catching the striker, striker follows the carrier into battery. My understanding, tabbing the carrier should cure this. Strange how this started to happen with both rifles at about the same round count. Can not duplicate the problem cycling the carrier by hand, but live firing it happens every shot.

Moderator: I am NOT disagreeing with anything anyone has posted on this thread, nor am I trying to start an argument in anyway -- My intention is to contribute information to the conversation that may be beneficial to others.

@Joel63:

Very cool that you built these from kits.  I wish I had the tools and knowledge to take on that project.  BTW I know where there are some kits for a reasonable price if you want to do more.  I would be really interested to see how you designed the FCG for semi-auto operation. (assuming they are semi-auto.)  :)

Regarding the DC and Sear issue:
If you watched the "VZ2008 fixes video" that FM posted, he addressed an issue he discovered in regards to the DC / Sear engagement and if I understand it correctly,  he attributes the problem to some play/wobble the trigger has.  I think hos solution was to put a weld bead on side of the trigger and then file it down to custom fit in the receiver tighter so the DC did not shift around with the trigger assembly.  Not certain that is what your referring to, or that FM fix is the correct or only approach to a fix, but it does like sound similar issue.

Here is FMs (Morgan's) YT vid queued up to start at that specific DC/Sear issue: https://youtu.be/r5Q3kSIybHw?t=11m22s

Also I was hoping to get some feedback from FM on the Zendl DC.  He has been working on a trigger improvement project for my CSA Sa.58 using the CNCW/BS Sear and CSA Trigger/DC combo.  So I sent him the Zendl DC so he could take a look at it.  Don't know if he has input or thoughts regarding the Zendl DC at this time, but I'll ask if he could weigh in here on this thread if he does.  :)
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 10:44:37 AM »
Pete, they actually are easier than an AK, in my opinion. The first was a learning experience, plus I had to have the barrel journal knurled to fit the receiver. The second one was a one day build, with exception to waiting for fire control parts to arrive.
I used CNC Warrior trigger, wide sear, disconnector, trigger and sear pins. Later I changed the disconnector's out for the original ones that came in the kits.
The little tab on the original disconnector sticks out further, so more contact area with the sear. I looked at trying to move the trigger Assy. over towards the right, but I could see it would be more effective to move the sear, since the sear could be moved further than the trigger with less work.

Offline Forced March

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 07:06:52 PM »
Thank you for the plug CP.  CP sent me his Zendl Disconnector and I was very impressed with it's production value, I was however very swamped with work and didn't get a chance to install it and try it out.  THAT BEING SAID, here are my thoughts: disconnectors are absolutely essential to your rifle's function, they are thin and relatively delicate, the Zendl was clearly designed using CAD.

Three reasons why I wouldn't use one:

--The upper portion of the disconnector switches back and forth, the axis of which is centered at the weakest point of the already delicate disconnector.

--K.I.S.S.

--I like helping people out and ordering one of these may rob me of some business. :)

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 09:04:30 AM »
Thanks for the input FM, I hope my problems are cured with tabbing the bolt carriers. I am curious if the Zendl disconnector is just as effective. I decided to not go that route since I've dealt with the person tabbing my carriers, I'll have them back long before I would receive parts from over seas.
Also, I agree with k.i.s.s. theory. That disconnector adds another spring and pivoting part subject to wear & tear, along with the addition of a hole in a delicate part.
In regards to the first issue of the tab on the disconnector slipping off the side of the sear, if CNC Warrior would just double the width of the little tab I would not have had to fool around with shimming the sear. I know I'm not the first person that dealt with this, the person I bought one of my parts kits from has built many Vz's and was a great resource thru my first build. His solution was to TIG weld more material on the tab and file to fit. He also noted feedback of the issue was given to CNC Warrior.
I'll report back after I give the tabbed carriers a try.

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2015, 11:34:29 AM »
was able to get out this morning and test fire both rifles, finally the gremlin is gone ! The tabbed bolt carriers did the trick. The fire control group seems solid now, ran 200 rnd's thru each rifle.
The one build with the 1958 kit needs a new extractor spring, very erratic ejection. Some left some right, some straight up LoL. Was weak Tula ammo, so I did have a few cases stove pipe in the first 50 or so, was better after the gun loosened up a bit.

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2015, 06:09:42 PM »
was able to get out this morning and test fire both rifles, finally the gremlin is gone ! The tabbed bolt carriers did the trick. The fire control group seems solid now, ran 200 rnd's thru each rifle.
The one build with the 1958 kit needs a new extractor spring, very erratic ejection. Some left some right, some straight up LoL. Was weak Tula ammo, so I did have a few cases stove pipe in the first 50 or so, was better after the gun loosened up a bit.

Erratic ejection is normal with all variants I have tested including CSA Sa.   Majority forward right, some straight up, some to side.  See "Bolero video" for examples.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline Joel63

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Re: Vz disconnector
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2015, 09:41:46 PM »
Thanks Pete, that's good to know.
The other rifle ejects consistently to the right and foreward. This one seemed to improve function the last couple mags, so I'll see how it does next time out. I had both apart during the build for thorough cleaning, didn't notice the extractor spring to be any weaker than the other.
Not a big deal really, as long as it functions reliably.