Triggers and Safeties and Grips... Oh my!

[rickj1nd]

Ever ponder how crazy it is that we all bought into this platform for various reasons knowing full well that a lot of its design features simply suck?  Don't get me wrong... I like my Scorpion SBR, but I mean look at the money we are dying to spend to replace or delete our safeties, change our grip, fix or replace our heavy over-traveling trigger group, put covers on or replace our hand grating forearms, swap out or re-thread our barrels or buy adapters, buy paddle mag releases and the list goes on. 
Again, don't get me wrong, some customization is fun and personal, but let's be honest, some things about the design leave much to be desired. 
To be fair, my MP5 has a few non-factory mods... B&T railed forearm and a Bill Springfield trigger job.  In its stock form it is quite well executed however and those were just choices I made to improve the platform to my liking over time.  They were not an instant revelation of "Man, this safety digging into my hand is ridiculous ", or "Wow, this grip puts my hand at way to steep of an angle to shoot comfortably" or "bleep, there is like only one suppressor made in this entire country that's gonna directly fit this thing".
Just looking for thoughts not fights.

[BlahX3]

I'm mostly just looking for decently priced, good quality 922r parts, like on my AK's.
I know that's another market but USA grips, mags and trigger group parts are great for "converting" foreign rifles and SBRing.

Ok so maybe I'm really trying to justify it.

How did I do?

[akuser47]

It's the American way. We cannot leave stuff alone as in rifle form it is a military weapon and very capable of doing what is needed. In a competition or range toy like most of us would likely use it. Its needing refinements, and I get that. Also comparing an mp5 that cost more than double to a scorpion is not fair. I love the mp5 not the stock triggers. I have ak rifles I have spent a lot on its all in what you want to make it the American way, the fast answer is we have been stung

[85Sabre]

I'm hoping CZ will take note of all of the aftermarket parts and add some of these features (fix the issues)  on the new Scorpions.

They have already switched the barrel threads to 1/2x28, so who knows.[emoji848]





No one told you life would be easy, or even fair.

[HBi]

^ CZ-USA is a very agile group of people. In just over a year look at what they have done with a platform that may/may not have been popular... Magazines, 922r kits, barrel threads as mentioned above... What about the design and release of a carbine variant that was not even on the table? Not only are they making changes, but they are doing it in record time. If you compare their ability to hear and respond to "voice of the customer" feedback against other manufacturers I think the word "agile" does not quite sum it up...

[Garmanarnar]

Ever ponder how crazy it is that we all bought into this platform for various reasons knowing full well that a lot of its design features simply suck?

This is your opinion, not objective fact. I am fully satisfied with the Scorpion and all its stock features.

[ShootersElement]

Ever ponder how crazy it is that we all bought into this platform for various reasons knowing full well that a lot of its design features simply suck?  Don't get me wrong... I like my Scorpion SBR, but I mean look at the money we are dying to spend to replace or delete our safeties, change our grip, fix or replace our heavy over-traveling trigger group, put covers on or replace our hand grating forearms, swap out or re-thread our barrels or buy adapters, buy paddle mag releases and the list goes on. 
Again, don't get me wrong, some customization is fun and personal, but let's be honest, some things about the design leave much to be desired. 
To be fair, my MP5 has a few non-factory mods... B&T railed forearm and a Bill Springfield trigger job.  In its stock form it is quite well executed however and those were just choices I made to improve the platform to my liking over time.  They were not an instant revelation of "Man, this safety digging into my hand is ridiculous ", or "Wow, this grip puts my hand at way to steep of an angle to shoot comfortably" or "bleep, there is like only one suppressor made in this entire country that's gonna directly fit this thing".
Just looking for thoughts not fights.

I think you make a great point. The design does have some things left to be desired, as you mentioned grip angle, trigger pull, magazine release and so on. However I don't think comparing the MP5 to the CZ Scorpion EVO III is an apples to apples comparison for a couple reasons. First is cost, you can't find or buy an MP5 for the price of a CZ Scorpion (if you could there would be no Scorpion IMO). Now let's pause on that for a moment, cost is a huge factor in getting something dead nuts right for everyone. While the MP5 has been shown to be reliable for decades it also is missing some more modern features the scorpion offers such as last round hold open, less expensive magazines, ambi charging handles (user configurable) and a less complicated blow back bolt system housed inside a lighter weight composite body.

The 2nd area I don't think you can stack an MP5 against a scorpion is availability, you can't buy a true out of the box new HK MP5 anymore. What we get now are replicas (some great and others ok). In any case we are talking about something created in 2012-2013 vs something from the late '70s (if memory serves) the scorpion hasn't had the same amount of time to refine and adjust as an MP5. If you look at MP5's over time there have been changes, and so it will be with the Scorpion.

Additionally, aftermarket offerings that folks like myself offer only mean there's support for this new platform. From a manufacturers perspective this is a very good thing. Take for example the aftermarket support for the Bushmaster ACR/Magpul Masada, it's almost nonexistent and most people hardly know about the gun anymore. Its could have been one of the guns that take us out of the age of the AR15 into the next evolution of rifles (that's just my opinion so take it for what you will). However aftermarket support for the gun was slow and I think that has contributed in what has finally caused it to lose out to the SCAR.

Lastly, offering items that change the appearance, form or function of the gun is kind of what we as shooters are about. Most people like to make guns their own and I think if we are honest that's why there's so many companies that make spray on coatings and slide mods, RMR cuts or stippled grips (the variety of patterns is amazing). So having options is a great thing for the platform and shows the support it already has and continues to grow with.

[rickj1nd]

Ever ponder how crazy it is that we all bought into this platform for various reasons knowing full well that a lot of its design features simply suck?  Don't get me wrong... I like my Scorpion SBR, but I mean look at the money we are dying to spend to replace or delete our safeties, change our grip, fix or replace our heavy over-traveling trigger group, put covers on or replace our hand grating forearms, swap out or re-thread our barrels or buy adapters, buy paddle mag releases and the list goes on. 
Again, don't get me wrong, some customization is fun and personal, but let's be honest, some things about the design leave much to be desired. 
To be fair, my MP5 has a few non-factory mods... B&T railed forearm and a Bill Springfield trigger job.  In its stock form it is quite well executed however and those were just choices I made to improve the platform to my liking over time.  They were not an instant revelation of "Man, this safety digging into my hand is ridiculous ", or "Wow, this grip puts my hand at way to steep of an angle to shoot comfortably" or "bleep, there is like only one suppressor made in this entire country that's gonna directly fit this thing".
Just looking for thoughts not fights.

I think you make a great point. The design does have some things left to be desired, as you mentioned grip angle, trigger pull, magazine release and so on. However I don't think comparing the MP5 to the CZ Scorpion EVO III is an apples to apples comparison for a couple reasons. First is cost, you can't find or buy an MP5 for the price of a CZ Scorpion (if you could there would be no Scorpion IMO). Now let's pause on that for a moment, cost is a huge factor in getting something dead nuts right for everyone. While the MP5 has been shown to be reliable for decades it also is missing some more modern features the scorpion offers such as last round hold open, less expensive magazines, ambi charging handles (user configurable) and a less complicated blow back bolt system housed inside a lighter weight composite body.

The 2nd area I don't think you can stack an MP5 against a scorpion is availability, you can't buy a true out of the box new HK MP5 anymore. What we get now are replicas (some great and others ok). In any case we are talking about something created in 2012-2013 vs something from the late '70s (if memory serves) the scorpion hasn't had the same amount of time to refine and adjust as an MP5. If you look at MP5's over time there have been changes, and so it will be with the Scorpion.

Additionally, aftermarket offerings that folks like myself offer only mean there's support for this new platform. From a manufacturers perspective this is a very good thing. Take for example the aftermarket support for the Bushmaster ACR/Magpul Masada, it's almost nonexistent and most people hardly know about the gun anymore. Its could have been one of the guns that take us out of the age of the AR15 into the next evolution of rifles (that's just my opinion so take it for what you will). However aftermarket support for the gun was slow and I think that has contributed in what has finally caused it to lose out to the SCAR.

Lastly, offering items that change the appearance, form or function of the gun is kind of what we as shooters are about. Most people like to make guns their own and I think if we are honest that's why there's so many companies that make spray on coatings and slide mods, RMR cuts or stippled grips (the variety of patterns is amazing). So having options is a great thing for the platform and shows the support it already has and continues to grow with.

Agree... Thanks for a kind, thought provoking reply... The best one yet!

[Hvacow]

I get what you're saying.  At the same time I think the customization is a fun part of it. Everyone of us that owns a Scorpion knows its perfectly fine out of the box. Fantastic for the price really. Like most people its fun to customize our stuff though too. Its like owning a car or truck, every vehicle I own has something custom done to it to make it "Mine". Bigger wheels, bigger tires, exhaust, etc. When you buy a home do you leave it stock, or do you build a fence, put in a yard, paint the walls? I don't complain one bit about the original gun. It is what it is. I just like the fact many companies are jumping on board this platform and giving us the option to make it ours.

[wagon]

To OP:   Customization is personal preference.   My 'essential upgrades' is only the left-safety delete and reduced spring kit... about $30 bucks -- that's CHEAP at any scale.   

I do have other upgrades but those are just optional , e.g. sling stud, rail covers, charge handle.    I shoot it with a 2-point VCAS slung tight , without stock/brace.   I can shoot it like a SBR that way, I have no plan to add a stock or brace.   


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