Re: CZ 83 or Bersa Thunder

[Jedman7]

I realize this is ressurecting an old thread, but I had a Bersa Thunder vs CZ83 question.  I'm considering getting a .380 for my wife to carry.  She cannot handle a lot of recoil (she's a dainty/petite type), and has a hard time racking the slides of my 9mms.  Which of these two has the lower recoil shooting a standard 90grain projectile, and which is easier to rack?

I know some will say "try them out" but there is no place in my area that rents out guns for trying.

[Grendel]

Split this off to give it some new legs.

My wife shoots the Bersa 9mm UC (which is basically the same gun as the 380) and can rack it just fine. It's a great little gun for the $$, the only drawback is the price of spare mags.

Never shot or handled an 83 though, so can't help you there, although I can tell you that 380 is a pretty snappy round, especially in a small, light pistol.

[Jedman7]

Thanks for the input, Grendel.  She can shoot my T120, which is a full frame, and doesn't mind the recoil.  However, that is way to big to carry in her small purse.  I also have a Taurus PT111-G2, which she doesn't like because it has too much recoil for her.  She can't rack either one of these.  Would you have any estimate on recoil from the .380 to the PT111?  If they're going to be about the same, then I might need to consider a whole other option for her to carry.

[Grendel]

All I can say for sure is the 9mm Bersa shoots with about as much recoil as my Sig P6 and Glock 19, neither of which are excessive. If you were to shoot a heavier round, say a 147gr rather than the 124 or 115, I think it would be even softer.

The only 380 I currently have is a Ruger LCP and that thing is no fun at all to shoot after 3 or 4 mags. Still, I'm not planning on shooting boxes of ammo through it, It's really a weapon of last resort, so it's not that big a problem

[Jedman7]

Again, appreciate the input.

[imarangemaster]

I have both!  I use the CZ83 for everyday carry under an untucked T shirt, or Hawaiian shirt.  When I am wearing tucked in, I use my Bersa Firestorm (Same as Thunder, but California legal) in an ankle holster on my left leg.  The Bersa gives me 9 rounds (8+1) and the CZ gives me 14 rounds (13+1).  I think the both recoil about the same.

I load them with Buffalo Bore +P, a 90 grain dish nosed hollow point at 1200 fps. (about 310 ft pounds or more)

[tpelle]

I also have both.  Because the Bersa is lighter in weight and has  a thinner grip than the CZ 83, the Bersa recoil will feels a little sharper.

Another factor with the Bersa is that it has an external disconnector bar that runs back the right side of the frame where it engages the hammer and sear mechanism, and where it is retained by a flat washer and a c-clip.  These c-clips have been known to come off, rendering the pistol inoperative.  If you disassemble that mechanism for any reason, you should never re-use the c-clip.  Always use a fresh new one.  Also the Bersa has more MIM parts used in critical areas, such as the safety/decocker lever, which is also subject to breaking.  I also think the Bersa slide is a little harder to rack than the 83.

I also dislike the magazine disconnect on the Bersa, and removed mine when I replaced the original rubber grips with wood.

On the plus side, the Bersa does have the decocker to place it in SA mode, whereas the CZ 83 requires one to manually let the hammer down, but then the 83 can be carried condition 1.  And if you are buying one outright you pay a lot less for the Bersa - probably can buy a Bersa new for less than you will pay for a used 82/83, and new 83's are unobtainable.  (I was lucky enough to score a '15' production run 83 from that special production run last year.)

All in all, I think the CZ 83 is a much more robust and reliable design.  My 83 is in my carry rotation, and my Bersa is my lawn-mowing garden-working gun.

[imarangemaster]

I also have both.  Because the Bersa is lighter in weight and has  a thinner grip than the CZ 83, the Bersa recoil will feels a little sharper.

Another factor with the Bersa is that it has an external disconnector bar that runs back the right side of the frame where it engages the hammer and sear mechanism, and where it is retained by a flat washer and a c-clip.  These c-clips have been known to come off, rendering the pistol inoperative.  If you disassemble that mechanism for any reason, you should never re-use the c-clip.  Always use a fresh new one.  Also the Bersa has more MIM parts used in critical areas, such as the safety/decocker lever, which is also subject to breaking.  I also think the Bersa slide is a little harder to rack than the 83.

I also dislike the magazine disconnect on the Bersa, and removed mine when I replaced the original rubber grips with wood.

On the plus side, the Bersa does have the decocker to place it in SA mode, whereas the CZ 83 requires one to manually let the hammer down, but then the 83 can be carried condition 1.  And if you are buying one outright you pay a lot less for the Bersa - probably can buy a Bersa new for less than you will pay for a used 82/83, and new 83's are unobtainable.  (I was lucky enough to score a '15' production run 83 from that special production run last year.)

All in all, I think the CZ 83 is a much more robust and reliable design.  My 83 is in my carry rotation, and my Bersa is my lawn-mowing garden-working gun.

Great assessment!  I got my CZ83 this year (also a 2015 production), which is amazing because the one that comes with two 10 round magazines for California is even scarcer than standard mag ones.  I prefer carrying my CZ83 to carrying my Glock 19!.  The CZ, loaded with Buffalo Bore ammo, approaches standard velocity 9mm loads.  The 90 grain +P gives 1220 fps from the CZ, and just a tad under 300 ft lbs.

[tpelle]

One other thing that just occurred to me.  If you decide to go with the Bersa, I strongly suggest buying the "Combat" model. 

The standard model comes equipped with an adjustable rear sight.  The sight consists of a blade that can slide left/right in the sight base, and which has a spring on one side and a tiny screw on the other.  Tighten the screw and it pushes the blade to the left against the spring.  Loosen the screw and the spring pushes the blade out to the right.  The problem is that the screw has a tendency to back itself out, and when it does so the spring launches itself and the blade into the closest patch of high weeds, never to be found again.  If you buy the standard model with the adjustable sight, it's suggested that, maybe after a range trip to check the zero, you should treat the rear sight with wicking loc-tite.

The "Combat" model comes with a one-piece fixed rear sight, which is much more appropriate for a carry gun.  It also has grips that seem to be much preferred by those who have handled both versions.  (It's odd that the Firestorm version of the Bersa came out of the box with the better grips and with the "Combat" sights, as well as with the more attractive (to my eye, at least) curved trigger guard.

Just for reference, here is a pic of my Firestorm with the magazine safety removed (notice the barely visible notch at the base of the grip where the safety bar used to reside) and the wood grips (which are not as concealable but are more hand-filling.  I also found a little rubber plug that fits in the keyhole for the Internal Locking System, which always seemed like it was filled with crud and dirt, and even when it was clean looked like a monkey's butt.

[ZardozCZ]

After finding my (now ex) GF could handle the slide of a Bersa and hit center mass well with it, I bought her one to be given the day she got her carry permit.

Being the curious soul that I am and having breached the resistance to adding a new caliber, I found and won a CZ83 in nickel (my favorite finish, right beside stainless). Bringing both to the range, I really liked the CZ much much better. It was manufactured, not stamped out and assembled, and that meant a lot to me (I used to build machinery). You could tell someone built that pistol, not just stuffed parts on an assembly line. It shoots like it too. I did like the slimness of the Bersa and that it was 9mm, but after parting with the GF, parted with the Bersa for ammo cash and such.

The CZ won't conceal as well, but I shoot it so much better than the Bersa, and the Lehigh Extreme bullets do so well, that I have no hesitation in carrying it and entrusing my life to it. The Bersa, hmmm, it's good for a GF.

Just my $.02

[Grendel]

I also have both.  Because the Bersa is lighter in weight and has  a thinner grip than the CZ 83, the Bersa recoil will feels a little sharper.

Another factor with the Bersa is that it has an external disconnector bar that runs back the right side of the frame where it engages the hammer and sear mechanism, and where it is retained by a flat washer and a c-clip.  These c-clips have been known to come off, rendering the pistol inoperative.  If you disassemble that mechanism for any reason, you should never re-use the c-clip.  Always use a fresh new one.  Also the Bersa has more MIM parts used in critical areas, such as the safety/decocker lever, which is also subject to breaking.  I also think the Bersa slide is a little harder to rack than the 83.

I also dislike the magazine disconnect on the Bersa, and removed mine when I replaced the original rubber grips with wood.

On the plus side, the Bersa does have the decocker to place it in SA mode, whereas the CZ 83 requires one to manually let the hammer down, but then the 83 can be carried condition 1.  And if you are buying one outright you pay a lot less for the Bersa - probably can buy a Bersa new for less than you will pay for a used 82/83, and new 83's are unobtainable.  (I was lucky enough to score a '15' production run 83 from that special production run last year.)

All in all, I think the CZ 83 is a much more robust and reliable design.  My 83 is in my carry rotation, and my Bersa is my lawn-mowing garden-working gun.

I disagree with nearly the whole assessment of the Bersa, but then I'm talking about a 9mm UC - not a 380 version. No mag disconnect on the 9mm, so no worries there. Never had any issues with the sights (they are combat style), nor the disconnector lever. As for MIM parts - so what? 99% of pistols contain some, if you want to avoid it, you're going to pay a lot more than a Bersa for new or have to buy an old used item, like an 82/83. I used to carry mine (er..the wife's) on my vest as a BUG and it concealed and functioned just fine.

The Shooter's log liked them too: Bersa Thunder 9 UC review as did all these guys

[Comte]

Without a doubt, CZ83. 


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[JAKELEG]

CZ 83......look at Gunbroker for good prices on surplus 83's. I have 2 from there. A bit of cleaning, NO,... a lot of cleaning, some oil, maybe a little cold blue here and there......good to go, and accurate!

[zmr]

cz83

[cyberfish2]

I just joined. As the proud owner of a brandi new CZ-83, Ca model, how do I tell if I got one of the 2015 limited run, or one made prior to them being discontinued in 2012? By the time I finished paying the fees on both ends (Mich to Calif via GB.com) it cost more than twice the price of a used one. I looked at the Bersa Firestorm(that's the CA ver.), but had already committed to the CZ. I like both, but the CZ felt better, and I think the extra weight handles the recoil better.