Any news on the Sarsilmaz CM9 gen-2?

[dwcopple]

Would love to see a report on the comparison to the P07. Accuracy, recoil, weight, size, etc. 

THIS ^^^

[Brian Ahearn]

The PO7 in decocker model would be my choice for carry over this one, only because its a decocker. As far as shooting goes I really like the new CM9 single action trigger is great, double action is much better than what you get on the new AREX Zero Sig clone.  The CM9  Sar is now even a better value at $249.00 plus shipping.  Two months ago I payed $279.00 plus shipping.  I am going to add a light to mine and use it as a house gun. You could carry it at half cock and shoot it double action for your carry gun ,but I would advise getting the PO7 Duty in decock form for carry. The PO7 has aftermarket support, night sights ,fiber optic sights Cajun Gunworks Parts for a better trigger ,holsters ,etc.  Like I said you could carry the Sar, but there will not be any aftermarket support at this time ,maybe down the road if the pistols become more popular. For the price that they are selling at I may get another one just for a spare.  I enjoy shooting it and it has worked well so far, construction is good and price is fantastic.

[briang2ad]

Anyone shoot this AND a P07?  Comparison please.

It is a crying shame that a gun with a trigger this good has no real support. No sights, holsters, etc.  Heck - if it had decent fixed sights I may have ordered it already. 

If it were a 15 rd gun with P07 form factor I'd also order it.

Will the Witness P sights work??

[briang2ad]

 They feel very good in the hand. Normally finger grooves stank, but these are very large and gently sloped and it feels good in the hand. The one criticism I have is what seems to be excessive over travel on the double action trigger pool. I also think it does feel a bit flimsy up front in The dustcover.

[hemiram]

I shot both a P-07 and my CM9 G2 Mon morning, and I would think since they are almost the same size, that a holster for a P-07 would work OK, as long as the fit isn't too tight. The CM9 is a tiny bit bigger than the P-07, and a little bit heavier too. I don't care much about the decocker, it wouldn't make or break me buying or keeping it. The sights are ok, I will eventually figure something out to upgrade them, or someone else will. That's why it's so great to be alive now, info gets spread around very quickly and isn't lost, or misplaced. I've learned more about working on guns in the last 6 months than I have in the almost 40 years since I started shooting. Almost all of it from Youtube videos. I didn't notice it being flimsy anywhere, but I honestly forgot to check for it. The DA trigger on the CM9 is better than on the P-07, IMHO, SA is a little better on the P-07, but my friend's P-07 has about 500 rounds through it, so we will see. The grip is just about perfect, to me, no excess "texturing", and it just fits my medium sized hand great, with the backstrap that comes on it out of the box.

[briang2ad]

So hemiram:  how do they compare shooting?  Accuracy? Recoil? Ability to get back on target? Muzzle flip?  Ability to reach controls without shifting hand?  Thanks.

(The specimen I handled in an LGS seemed to have plenty of overtravel in da.)

The 'flimsy part' is the dust cover.  If you look at the P07 it is stiff and the SLIDE RIDES inside on a rail inside of the dust cover.  On the CM9, it is just there - kind of sitting under the slide and you can squeeze it and compress it easily with your fingers - I've never seen this on any other polymer framed gun.  If you squeeze the P07 there is NO GIVE.  It just makes me wonder at the content of the polymer, and how the steel and polymer interfaces if it is too soft.

[Springless]

The 'flimsy part' is the dust cover.  If you look at the P07 it is stiff and the SLIDE RIDES inside on a rail inside of the dust cover.  On the CM9, it is just there - kind of sitting under the slide and you can squeeze it and compress it easily with your fingers - I've never seen this on any other polymer framed gun.  If you squeeze the P07 there is NO GIVE.  It just makes me wonder at the content of the polymer, and how the steel and polymer interfaces if it is too soft.
[/quote]

I own both the K2P (CM9 Gen1) and the new Gen 2.  The first thing I noticed was the thin polymer in the dust cover area which is not a factor in the Gen 1. When I squeeze mine it actually clicks. My concern is what time, temperatures and use will have to do with slide movement. It does not seem it would take a whole lot of time, in typically changing and sometimes extreme temperatures, for there to be possible issues with warping, cracking or weakened polymer. I am a fan of Sarsilmaz, but I do have to question how this got through prefabrication given how noticeable it is. It certainly does not serve the idea that this is a a solid, well built firearm and I expect these won't be the only comments on this issue over time.

[Brian Ahearn]

 Correct me if  I am wrong ,but I believe that the CM9 pistol only has a service life of 25,000 rounds so for me at a $250 dollar price point I will not worry about it . I don't consider this pistol to be a pistol that I will shoot that hard. Now a canik TP9 is rated to 60,000 rounds different story if the poly was that flimsy I would be worried about it. This pistol was not designed to meet Military / heavy duty standards so I would never shoot it as hard as one of my CZ 75's. It's was designed to be a light duty shorter lifespan handgun not rated for plus P ammo. With normal use this is an excellent range or house duty gun and will perform well. I would not be afraid to use it as a carry pistol with standard hollow point ammo. So far my has performed very well with zero malfunctions.

[jwc007]

Correct me if  I am wrong ,but I believe that the CM9 pistol only has a service life of 25,000 rounds so for me at a $250 dollar price point I will not worry about it .

Currently, 25,000 rounds is considered the normal service life of any Military Issue handgun, regardless of manufacture.  This is a matter of policy on wear estimate that started with the Beretta M9 series Pistols, when adopted. However, they still shoot them till they break.  Given proper care and maintenance, most any handgun may exceed that.

This pistol was not designed to meet Military / heavy duty standards

From what I have read, the SAR CM9 Gen 2's predecessor, the SAR K2P currently serves Turkish Army Non-Comm Officers and below.  That EAA does not warrant use of +P ammunition in it, is probably a policy decision.  That said, my carry ammunition for my SAR K2P is of standard pressure.

Speculation on my part is that the SAR CM9 Gen 2 was developed to compete as a Service Pistol.  Were I in charge of the Turkish Military procurement, I would eventually phase out the SAR K2P's, as they wear out, and issue the Canik TP9SF's across the board.  Currently, the TP9SF serves the Turkish Special Forces and the standard TP9V2 serves most commisioned Officers.

[Brian Ahearn]

Thanks for correcting me ,so still why the  the big worry about the poly at the end of the frame from some of you guys that is my question? I will shoot this one till it breaks ,which I really don't see happening,but if it does at $250 just buy another one. This pistol just has a lot going for it at a $250 price,great trigger and ergo's,  takes Mecgar and  CZ mags ,shoots great and has adjustable rear sight.  A lot of gun for $250.00 I like more than my original K2P which is an outstanding pistol, The only thing we have to worry about is the price going up!

[briang2ad]

Its hard to really know anything definitive about these guns unless you are in the Turk military or contract world or both.  I was considering the gun for a 'car gun', but still balked on the soft polymer.  I have too many 9s already and probably need more sights, accessories than another 9.  I just never felt a gun with plastic this cheesy feeling.  Also the slide just sits on the frame - not inside (at least not on the front).  If the plastic is this soft, it may not even be properly reinforced throughout.  If it were $200 I might pass - I just like quality of build.  Its a shame, because the grip and trigger felt great - and cheap mags. 

SAR MAY be a first class firearms manufacturer.  But the polymer in this gun didn't impress me. Reminds me of the Zastava AKs 2 years ago that went belly up when run over, when all other AKs don't.  Probably not heat treated right - and this from an Eastern Bloc country KNOWN for firearms manufacturing.  Likely were cutting corners on the civilian market to earn a buck.  it can happen with other companies too. 

[Brian Ahearn]

I get where you are coming from I balked on the new CZ P10C seeing too many issues on these pistols at a $500.00 price point so I will wait for Dave at Cajun to make some improvements and fixes. Instead I am thinking that I will invest my money in the Steyr M9 A1 pistol instead something that has seen a lot of improvement since it's inception back around 1999 or so. For now I will keep pounding the crap out of my CM9 every time that I go to the range, if it breaks I will report back. I am about to start a thread about a Grand power pistol issue that I had occur back in January in the general firearms section, supposedly a new pistol is finally on the way to me,so I can understand someone not being sure about buying something. It's sad to though that I have personally experienced  more issues with higher cost handguns and I have only had one Sar failure in the last 7 years ,which was a broken trigger bar on a K2 45 ACP  [over 5000 rounds} which was handled promptly when I called for a repair. I am hard on handguns and I admit to that but guns in the $500 and up range should not be failing with usage under 5000 rounds , I have seen to many of these  failures with multiple manufacturers, that does not help with having confidence in a product line. If I braek my CM9 you will here about it.

[jwc007]

Instead I am thinking that I will invest my money in the Steyr M9 A1 pistol instead something that has seen a lot of improvement since it's inception back around 1999 or so.

I have the Steyr L9A1, which has been excellent so far.  Accurate and very very reliable.  My only complaint about it is that the Magazines are a PITA to disassemble for cleaning.

As for the CM9 Gen 2, I still find it tempting, but I'm sticking with my old SAR K2P for now.

[Dezfan]

Just picked my CM9 this evening and my initial impressions are very positive.

The polymer lower looks to be very high quality, the grip is very comfortable. Sarsilmaz includes 3 interchangeable backstraps (marked 1-2-3) but the smallest (1) which came installed seems like it will be the one I continue to use.

I would like the mag release to be a millimeter or two taller, but it's not a deal breaker.

The ambi safety came out of the case very stiff. After dinner I continually worked it on and off for 10-15 minutes or so and it's loosened up a bit, so I'll continue to work it and see if it continues to improve.

The slide is extremely well machined forged stainless steel and the cocking serrations are fairly aggressive.

The trigger on this thing is very impressive out of the box. I don't have a trigger gauge, but if I had to guess, I would say the DA pull is about 8-10 pounds. The SA trigger pull Imwould guess is 3-5 pounds. Very little take up, a nice crisp break, and the reset is short and audible.

The barrel is forged stainless steel, it and the guide rod are finished in a very high polish. I don't beleive the barrel is chrome lined, but I'm not sure about it.

I ordered it knowing it only came with one magazine (I've ordered a few more). It's well made, has witness holes, has a 15 round capacity  and drops freely from the mag well.

The sights 3 dot and replaceable. The rear sight is adjustable. I'm not sure about aftermarket availability, but I'm going to start doing some research to see what I can find out.

Hope to get it to the range Saturday and put some rounds down range.

I'll be sure to report my findings. 👍🏼

[jwc007]

Nice!    Congratulations and may it serve you well!    Looking forward to your Range Report on it, and do make it a separate thread! 

The barrel is forged stainless steel, it and the guide rod are finished in a very high polish. I don't beleive the barrel is chrome lined, but I'm not sure about it.

Barrels made of Stainless Steel need not be Chrome lined, as Stainless Steel contains Chromium.  Match Grade Barrels are often made of Stainless Steel.
Nitride Finished Barrels are now the hot ticket that will probably replace Chrome Lined and Stainless Steel Match Barrels.

I ordered it knowing it only came with one magazine (I've ordered a few more). It's well made, has witness holes, has a 15 round capacity  and drops freely from the mag well.

So long as it will use the Mec-Gar Cz75B 17 and 19 round AFC Magazines, that's what I would use in it.  I typically have carried my SAR K2P with the Mec-Gar Cz75B 17 round AFC Magazines.