EVO malfunction

[mark23]

I shot my EVO for the second time last night.  It shot really well and it really chews through ammo.  My wife wanted to shoot it so she loaded a mag with the bolt rear-ward and sent the charging handle forward to load the first round.  She takes it off safe, goes to shoot, and "click".  I thought that a round must not have been chambered so I took the gun, dropped the mag, and tried to pull the charging handle back to eject the round in the chamber if there was one.  The charging handle was very difficult to pull back, but I could see there was a round in the chamber.  Despite my best efforts,  I could only pull hard enough to see about half the casing.  I messed with this for a while, but couldn't get it to eject.  We had to leave for dinner so I thought I'd just mess with it this morning.

This morning I "mortared" it similar to an AR by grabbing the charging handle and slamming the stock on the counter a few times until the round finally ejected.  I was shooting Freedom 115-grain reloads and thought maybe I had an out-of-spec round or something.  I visually compared the round to about half a dozen others, and visually they all looked the same except the "bad" round had a slight dent on the bullet head.

I'm not terribly worried about it, but what could have caused this?  Also, should the charging handle lock back after the last round is fired?  It was back after each mag, but not rotated upward in the locked position, so there was no "HK slap" when we put in a new mag, we just had to pull back slightly and release to close the bolt. 

[earlan357]

Hmmm.  It's highly unlikely that an unfired round would chamber but fail to extract since no expansion of the brass took place.  The handle is non-reciprocating and should stay forward when the bolt locks to the rear.  It has a wire spring detent that keeps it from moving during firing.  Maybe the detent broke, fell into the action, and jammed up the bolt?  Strip the gun and see if a little piece of wire is rattling around in there.

Also, after the click, was the gun put on safe?  If the hammer is not cocked, switching the safety on will prevent the hammer from cocking, which stops the bolt moving rearward more than 1/2 an inch.

[rickj1nd]

Just like an MP5... Charging handle should not reciprocate.

[mark23]

Hmmm.  It's highly unlikely that an unfired round would chamber but fail to extract since no expansion of the brass took place.  The handle is non-reciprocating and should stay forward when the bolt locks to the rear.  It has a wire spring detent that keeps it from moving during firing.  Maybe the detent broke, fell into the action, and jammed up the bolt?  Strip the gun and see if a little piece of wire is rattling around in there.

Also, after the click, was the gun put on safe?  If the hammer is not cocked, switching the safety on will prevent the hammer from cocking, which stops the bolt moving rearward more than 1/2 an inch.

Oh man, I think that was it actually  .  The round didn't look to have a light primer strike (no dent in the primer), but must not have seated properly when my wife charged the weapon.  When it went "click" when she tried to fire it, I took it, dropped the mag, and put it on safe.  I was able to mimic this a few minutes ago, and on safe it was pulling back about as far as I was able to when I thought there was a malfunction.  I can't imagine that I didn't put it on fire and try to charge it, but I guess I didn't.  This does have me questioning why mortaring worked while it was on safe though?  The gun seems fine, but I hope my brute force didn't damage what is supposed to keep the weapon from being charged on safe.

[mark23]

tried to pull the charging handle back to eject the round in the chamber if there was one.  The charging handle was very difficult to pull back, but I could see there was a round in the chamber.  Despite my best efforts,  I could only pull hard enough to see about half the casing.  I messed with this for a while, but couldn't get it to eject. 

I was shooting Freedom 115-grain reloads

Freedom munitions?

Yep

[mark23]

  Also, should the charging handle lock back after the last round is fired?  It was back after each mag, but not rotated upward in the locked position, so there was no "HK slap" when we put in a new mag, we just had to pull back slightly and release to close the bolt.

I missed this question earlier.

It shouldn't rotate upwards when empty.  That is just a manual safety designed after how the MP5 is made.  And almost totally useless most of the time unless you're oiling the gun or need to lock the bolt back for inspection or something.  When the mag is empty, the bolt should just lock rearward until you push the bolt release lever downward.

You can either pull the charging handle rearward enough so gravity will pull the blocking lever back down, or a better method is to push the bolt release lever down with your thumb.  (It's on the left side of the gun near where the magwell is--that's what it's there for).

I've just been pulling the lever far enough back and then releasing so it will charge, but using the bolt release should ensure the round seats fully and I'll start doing that from now on.  I guess to actually do the "HK slap" you have to pull back and rotate the charging handle into the locked position before loading the mag.  That's cool I guess and if it becomes a habit it makes sense, but the bolt release seems much more efficient.

[armoredman]

Before use again call 1-800-955-4486 and get the gunsmith, see if you may have damaged something. Considering how bomb proof the design really is, I'd bet it works, BUT... it's not the only gun between you and a Terminator right now, so hold off until and expert checks it out.

[mark23]

I never understood the purpose of locking the bolt when the gun is on safe for a few reasons.

The biggest reason is because it's counter-intuitive.

The second, being just this very circumstance.  The last thing I want is a gun that I have to have on FIRE before taking care of some sort of failure.  Whether jam, misfeed, or whatever, I prefer the firing pin be locked, rather than the bolt itself.

This is one of those things that make me scratch my head as to why cz made it in this manner.

Yeah, being the 2nd time I'd shot it I didn't even realize it works that way.  I also agree that it's completely counter-intuitive.  In the heat of battle I guess I wouldn't have put the safety on.  However, wife is shooting, it goes click, and I take the gun and put it on safe to check out the problem, which to me for this situation was intuitive.  Oh well, I know now.  I guess an AK somewhat works the same way in that you can't charge it on safe, but you have a clear view of why that happens on an AK. 

[mark23]

Before use again call 1-800-955-4486 and get the gunsmith, see if you may have damaged something. Considering how bomb proof the design really is, I'd bet it works, BUT... it's not the only gun between you and a Terminator right now, so hold off until and expert checks it out.

I might give them a call just to see if the mortaring could have hurt it.  Seems odd that mortaring it would have worked.

[mursalot]

i had something similar happen, although it wasn't safety lever related.

was shooting at night about six months ago when a round failed to fire. this was either wolf or tula steel cased stuff. anyways, the round was stuck in the chamber, but wasn't far enough in for the bolt to fully close. it was a challenge to pull the charging handle enough for the extractor to slip off of the case rim, but it did. i had to let the bolt slam home a couple of times before it closed all the way. pulled the trigger and finished off the mag.

note: the previous round fired without issue. there wasn't a squib or anything of that sort blocking the chamber or bore. i've had squibs before (not in the scorpion) and know what to look for. there was recoil, muzzle flash and the previous case ejected on it's own.

i'm not sure why that particular round didn't want to play nice. i just knew it was going to be easier to ram it all the way in vs pull it out. the primer was untouched so i was hopeful the recoil would take care of the rest, which it did

[BucketShop]

Freedom munitions?

There's the suspect.  Most people post on the Internet that they shoot thousands of rounds of Freedom without a problem.  But there is a vocal minority that experience case separations, and out of spec rounds. 

I run all my hand loaded pistol cartridges through a Dillon cartridge gauge.  A damaged case is easy to spot, one that has the "Glock bulge" from being previously fired in a partial unsupported chamber may only be out of spec by a few thousands.  It looks exactly the same as an in spec cartridge to the naked eye.

Personally I have not had a problem with the Freedom Ammo I have used, but I no longer have confidence in their quality control. 

[DexterGSP]

Are you sure your wife released the bolt from its rear most position to drive the round into the chamber?  If the bolt was eased slightly into battery it would cause this problem.  I've already done it on my EVO.  If the spring loaded extractor does not jump the rim of the case then the bolt has not fully gone into battery.  The trigger can still be pulled and the hammer will release, but when it does it runs into the bottom edge of the bolt.  With the bolt not fully in battery it prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin.  Plus the interaction of the "block lever" and "firing pin block" would not be in proper alignment either.  This is a good thing as it will prevent the EVO from firing out of battery.

If this is the case there's nothing wrong with your EVO.

I hope I've read the OP's post correctly.  It's been a long day and I'm sick.

Thanks!

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