Author Topic: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun  (Read 9757 times)

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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2017, 07:22:35 PM »
All BS aside,the best carry gun,is the one you have on you when it is needed. The tragedy exists when someone forgets to strap on their gun because of forgetfulness,or because it is uncomfortable. Then all of a sudden they are in a situation  where they need it. The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7. Im no expert,but I have carried for over 40 years. Scotty   O0 O0 O0

I agree with all but the notion that one might forget their gun. If carrying is that much of an afterthought then that person needs to take things a bit more seriously. Strapping on one's pistol should not become the same mundane task as slipping a wallet into a pocket.
I would also add that the best gun is the one that you will practice with and become proficient with. I know far to many people who think an airweight J frame is just the perfect gun to pack the problem is it's one of the hardest guns to master and these guys are carrying guns that they haven't put 30 rounds through. Yikes!!

I carried a 442 for a long time. I encountered all the comments (my favorite is "Its so cute, whats it going to be when it grows up?"). As for accuracy, under 7 meters and I'm golden. Past that and I wonder if it is really a life threatening situation that doesnt allow for withdrawal.

I'm not knocking the J frame one bit. I own a couple and they are solid accurate shooters but they do require a lot of practice to be proficient with. Short barrel and sight radius you know the drill. My point is that so many people buy this style gun and never practice with them yet they carry them as defensive pistols and while that is entirely their choice they do themselves a disservice by their lack of experience with their weapon of choice. Practice, practice, practice with any gun you plan to defend your life with.

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2017, 09:03:15 PM »
My father used to be in law enforcement on patrol at the state level during the late 60's to early 90's.......always carried a S&W revolver, told me after he retired he never had to pull it once.......nowadays, seems much more common, if for no other reason than being ready/prepared. I understand the reasoning times change, terrorists, "everyone" is going to do you harm, less respect/trust for LEO's....I get it, seems like the stakes just keep getting raised......AR's slung over everyone's shoulders (except California & NY  ;D) isn't too far off, 20 years maybe, if things continue.........honestly, back in the 70's thru the 90's I don't recall CCW being something that was deemed necessary, decades before that it was pretty much unheard of I learned after talking with my grandfathers.......now a couple milliion of folks do it regularly..... I totally support folks right to do that, just kinda unfortunate they have to or at least feel like they have to exercise it as a matter of survival. Then again the US population has grown a lot, 200 million in 1970 and 320 million in 2016........percentages would dictate there are likely more bad apples in that 120 million more folks   :o

Just heard of a new study that showed CCW carriers have a much lower incident of criminal acts than the average civilian or law enforcement officer......the latter surprised me, but then again they are just people too..... ???
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:21:46 PM by CZ Aficionado »

Offline cntrydawwwg

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2017, 10:46:24 PM »
  When I can carry it's my Rami w/extra mag. Yep I use the ten rounder, that's what works best for me with how I dress and body shape. I say "when I can carry", because unfortunately where I work prohibits firearms and can't even have one in the car. (school)
   I admit I'm fairly new to ccw, only a couple years. I'm still learning the tricks and techniques like dressing around a bigger pistol. I'm a bigger guy, so no problem with the weight of the gun, it's the shape of the body that won't cooperate[emoji2]
    I never really use to worry about carrying on my person. Always had a pistol when traveling, camping, HD, etc. but never thought about ccw. Not really sure what happened, maybe all the crap going on in the world, more crime getting closer to home. Dunno, just woke up one day and said I'm gonna get my permit and carry when/where I can.
  A knife is better than nothing, a pistol is better than a knife, a pistol with more ammo is better than..........[emoji6]so I'm probably gonna end up carrying more ammo at some point.
   I say carry what works for you, your situation, and your comfort level.
    I might add, in the woods I'm down to my 6 shots of either .357 or .44 mag and maybe a couple speed loaders. Of course I'm not so much worried about the 2 legged creatures as I am the 4 legged ones.
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Offline stater61

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2017, 12:10:21 AM »
 I wasn't going say anything else so ya'll wouldn't think my tin foil was screwed on too tight, but M1A4ME gave me hope ;D

 I used to carry a G17 with 17 +1 and (2)17-rd mags all the time for 52rds or, a G19 loaded and (2) extra G17 mags for 50rds total.
Now that I'm a CZ convert I carry a P-07 with 15 +1 and (2)19-rd P-09 mags with +2 baseplates for 58 rds, or a P-09 loaded and the same (2) mags for a total of 60rds on my person........... Yep, I'm more happy now 8)

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2017, 12:26:02 AM »
Okay......the "less capacity" crowd seems to be keeping a low profile here, so for the "large capacity" group......whats an acceptable regular carry capacity you are comfortable with, that would include loaded firearm and extra rounds in spare mag(s)......just wondering what the thinking is........my normal carry with the 640 is 5 loaded, 5 more on a speedstrip/speedy loader.....thanks

1) I pull up "table 5 crime in the United States by state" from the FBI annual crime statistics.
2) I take (Violent Crime/Property Crime) = base number
3) Then I take Base Number + Pi and I get my minimum number of rounds per magazine.

This normalizes Metro Areas, Cities outside of Metro areas, and Non-Metro Counties really nicely.

Then I take the Violent Crimes/(Population/100,000) and if that number is higher than 250 I carry 2 magazines. If that number is over 450 I carry a second BUG.

If my round count score puts me at a full size magazine but the score for the number of magazines only warrants one magazine then the rule is set to normalize the minimum round count per magazine down to the Base Number.

Now ask yourself... Did I really validate these equations?  O0
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 12:28:09 AM by Scarlett Pistol »
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Offline Chino Hills

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2017, 02:44:35 AM »
If one looks solely at stats, there would seem to be slim chance approaching none that any individual is going to ever actually be in a shooting incident.  But not zero chance.  On the other hand,  it makes sense to carry what one reasonably might need plus, some "rainy day" reloads, etc.  But when one begins to really justify and sensibly, too, that the minimum carry is at least two firearms, a knife, some form of less lethal option, like a heavy flashlight or gas spray of some sort, and upwards of 30 or more rounds of ammunition as just the basic daily load out, I guess it nears the point that I would ask, "Where the heck am I going?  What am I doing?  That I really need all of this?"  Because if one really, really, needs all of that, maybe the right answer is, "Don't do that!  Don't go there!"

I think the answer lies someplace in the middle.  Although compared to the revolver days, 30 rounds might only be one mag change (or two for us Californians).  So I don't think that's necessarily unreasonable.  Nor do I think that a modern semi with perhaps less than 10 or a revolver with 5 or 6 rounds might not also be a reasonable carry option, too.

One really needs to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling because it is a serious matter.  Everyone lives in a different place and the circumstances can be wildly different.  I can look to what my dad carried in 30 plus years of LE and compare that to what a nephew and brother-in-law carry these days.  And it's vastly different. 

Offline macktheknife

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2017, 10:44:23 AM »
Being that I live in the utopian state of NY, I am not an LEO, I am limited to SEVEN ROUNDS IN A MAGAZINE so I carry a combat commander most of the time. Can't go for more so bigger is better!
safe act indeed
PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEFULLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF.

Offline Birds Away

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2017, 11:05:57 AM »
Being that I live in the utopian state of NY, I am not an LEO, I am limited to SEVEN ROUNDS IN A MAGAZINE so I carry a combat commander most of the time. Can't go for more so bigger is better!
safe act indeed
Well, it makes the bad guys safer.
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2017, 11:20:12 AM »
Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive a car?  A helmet when you ride a bike?  A life jacket when you're flying down the lake in the bass boat? 

You don't take safety precautions because you know it will happen (who'd go to the mall today if you knew there was going to be an active shooter incident, or if you knew you were going to be robbed in the parking lot?)

You take safety precautions because sometimes bad things happen to good people, and you want to increase your chances of survival.

Hey, when we go on a road trip I even have my wife put an extra key to the vehicle we take in her purse, just in case.  And I carry the new CZ 75 Compact instead of my P07, because I want our magazines/ammo to be compatible.  Just in case.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline bayouredd

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2017, 11:25:21 AM »
There are some great points & options in this thread and all quite valid. I think in the big picture, it's about personal comfort. I got my CC permit mostly because I do a lot of after hours work with medical & dental, with meds on sight or at least perceive on site. There have been some break in's at a couple of them & one place 3 different times. My comfort level has changed at times and my carry piece has changed to reflect that. But it has always been about my comfort level. I do believe that we all play out scenario's in our head and that is the determining factor for at least a large percentage of the time. I'm not talking about the guy or gal that just felt uncomfortable & got their permit or a new gun and think it's all handled after that. Those folks probably don't frequent this type of forum. There are a lot of folks that think it could never happen to me or mine. The bottom line is that it does happen & you have to make yourself as comfortable as possible with what is carried.

There is no more is better or more is worse, it's about what makes you as comfortable as possible...

Offline armoredman

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2017, 09:35:45 PM »
I hope that we can agree that what the other person's comfort level is their comfort level, not everyone's. I personally carry a CZ P-09 off duty with two full spare mags. Why? Because I like the gun, (its Cajunized), I shoot it well, and I like full capacity. I don't expect to run into a battalion of Russian Spetznatz, but some ultra rare high profile incidents have gotten me to think that more is better. I have also carried a 6 shot 38 Special revolver with two speedloaders, and WAY back in the day I carried a 5 shot Charter Arms Off Duty snub, felt no worse.

Offline Indy_Tim

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2017, 01:05:13 PM »
Correct. 

It's not a coincidence that whenever this conversation comes up, the proponents of lower capacity also happen to be revolver or 1911 enthusiasts.   ;)
The low capacity crowd is fortunate enough to be able to carry those weapons.  Why would you choose anything less? [emoji3]

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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2017, 02:08:16 PM »
I hope that we can agree that what the other person's comfort level is their comfort level, not everyone's. I personally carry a CZ P-09 off duty with two full spare mags. Why? Because I like the gun, (its Cajunized), I shoot it well, and I like full capacity. I don't expect to run into a battalion of Russian Spetznatz, but some ultra rare high profile incidents have gotten me to think that more is better. I have also carried a 6 shot 38 Special revolver with two speedloaders, and WAY back in the day I carried a 5 shot Charter Arms Off Duty snub, felt no worse.

Good for you.  I carried my P09 (with RMR on it) for a week or so when the P07 was off to Primary Machine for the RMR install/refinishing and I was just miserable.  It wasn't the weight, it was that nagging feeling that everyone knew I was carrying it because it was sticking out so far.  Maybe it was just me and no one else could tell, but I really was uncomfortable with it. 

Same for the Pre B CZ 85.  I carried it a time or two and just didn't feel good about it.  I gave the holster to my youngest son for his CZ 75 SA and went back to the Compacts (P07 and lately the project CZ 75 Compact, at times).
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline bayouredd

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2017, 05:23:22 PM »
I hope that we can agree that what the other person's comfort level is their comfort level, not everyone's.

Pretty much sums it up, right there!!!

The bad thing is that not only the CCW, but the climate, work cloths, etc. is part of that determining factor. (as M1 was eluding to)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 05:32:01 PM by bayouredd »

Offline aguila9

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Re: Large capacity vs Less capacity.....for a carry gun
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2017, 05:40:55 PM »
I just pick the weapon I feel most comfortable with. My top two EDC recently gas been my Kimber Ultra CDP in .45acp or my Sig320C 9mm. 7 vs 15, and I always carry a spare mag and a set of cuffs. Capacity is just another thing to argue about, like caliber wars. Shoot and carry what you shoot and carry best.

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