Hornady Lock N Load AP Press Tuning

[tdogg]

So I have had my Hornady LNL AP for a while now.  I have loaded thousands of pistol and a few hundred 223.  I have been pleased thus far but as with any press/mechanical process it needs some fine tuning.  I have performed several modifications to fine tune the press.  I thought it would be helpful to detail these in one spot to help other users troubleshoot their press operations.

1.  Primer shuttle mod and adjustment:
So the primer slide is a little rough from the factory.  I took some fine sandpaper to each primer slide and also beveled the very front lower edge of the primer slide to help prevent rogue powder from holding it from completely returning to home and preventing the primer from aligning with the case during seating.  Here is a crappy picture of my primer slide.  If you look closely you can see a small bevel at the nose of the primer slide.


I also needed to adjust the top of the primer slide breakaway cam wire to ensure proper feeding.  I adjusted it such that the primer slide moves just barely past the center of the primer feed tube.  This ensures that the primer will fall into the primer slide during the cycle.  Here is a video detailing what I did (not mine).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE6vlYIcjhk

Here is my top down view of my adjusted cam wire and primer slide feed alignment


2.  Drive Hub shim:
So I had an issue with my Federal 45 cases hanging up during ejection with the EZ eject system.  After some research the root cause was too much clearance of the shell plate over the sub plate.  This allows the case head rim to ride up and over the EZ Eject nub during shell plate rotation.  To correct the issue you need to add shims to the drive hub that in turn reduces the clearance for the shell plate when bolted down.  I found this thread to be most helpful.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/414607_How-to-tune-the-Hornady-Lock-N-Load-AP-progressive-press.html

I ended up with about 0.003? of shellplate clearance as measured with feeler gauges when the shell plate is bolted down.  This was a trial and error approach using various shims to get to that final clearance.  Since completing this shim mod I haven?t had any issues with cartridge ejection or cartridge tilt feeding into the crimp die.

You can measure the drive hub clearance as shown in the referenced thread but I found that the feeler gauge method was easiest and is actually what matters in the process (plus I don?t own a depth mic and using calipers in the press was difficult).

3.  Sub Plate Preload Washer: 
I was having issues with the press not cycling the primer slide properly and found that it was related to the press sub plate ?sagging? and not clearing the primer seater punch.  I took a flattened lock washer that fit over the spend primer tube and placed it under the counter balance spring to provide a little more preload to hold the subplate up in the ready position.


4.  Turnbuckle Mod for Case Activated linkage:
This was one of the things I was disappointed with when I first setup my press for multiple calibers.  I was going to have to adjust the quick change powder die going from the shorter 9mm cartridge to the 45 ACP cartridge.  I didn?t feel that this was a good design so I came up with the turnbuckle so I could adjust the case activated linkage and leave the die set.  I?ve been using this setup for a while now and haven?t found any issues.  It is super simple to adjust when performing caliber changes.  Here is my thread detailing the turnbuckle mod.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=79227.msg577268#msg577268

5.  Pawl Adjustment:
I needed to fine tune the timing of the pawls to get smooth priming/case alignment.  This video (not mine) was a good detailed run down on how to adjust the Pawls. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXms1-ZsPnU

6.  Sub Plate Dremel:
I was struggling with the shell plate snap issue and did not improve anything adjusting the pawls or the ball detents on the shell plate.  I found this video and noticed how smooth the shell plate indexes and had to try it for myself.  All I can say is wow, I wish I had tried this first.  There is no shell plate snap and I don?t spill powder upon indexing (on either up or down stroke).  It was particularly bad with 9mm but still an issue with 40S&W but no longer for either, smooth as butter.

I used a fine stone cone dremel bit and took the sub plate off the press for the actual grinding.  I took my time to try and make each bevel as close as possible to the rest.  I didn?t go all the way to the bottom of the detent hole, maybe about half as deep as the detent hole.  I ground about a quarter of an inch in length total lead into the detent hole.  Took about an hour to complete the sub plate grind and reinstall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9nGMxoUhSg

Here is a picture of my dremel modified sub plate.


Most of these mods are cheap/free to perform and really make the machine run smooth.  In addition, they are fairly simple to complete.  Post up if you have any questions about the mods.

Cheers,
Toby

[The Conservative]

This is fantastic.  Thanks for taking the time to put this together.  I am running an old Projector that I bought around 1985.  Initially it took a little tuning to get to run but since then it has been flawless.  Problem is 30+ years of high usage and almost no parts availability.  I am seriously considering replacing it with a new LNL AP or Dillon 650 but don?t want to spend countless hours on the net finding out how to tune it them.  Hornady just took the lead, thanks again.

[tdogg]

This is the beauty of the internet.  Information at your fingertips, just have to find it. 

The drive hub shims are such an simple/elegant solution to machine variability.  You read some folks have very little shell plate clearance and others that have plenty.  When I contacted Hornady about my issue with the Fed 45 cases not ejecting properly they wanted me to send them my 45 shell plate to be modified (to reduce the clearance).  This would have fixed my 45 ACP ejection issue but not address any of my other calibers.  I have to thank TZ250 for sharing his shim fix!

Same thing goes for the sub plate dremel fix many thanks to Ryan for sharing.  It's a little more of a commitment but I assure you it makes the indexing smooth.

The Hornady press is a solid machine and loads plenty fast for my needs.  I'm sure there are other issues with the press that aren't covered here (as I haven't encountered them).  If anyone else has tips and tricks to share, they should post them up here!

Cheers,
Toby

[Hutehund]

Oh... More tinkering to do    Fantastic!  I do love to tinker.

I shimmed the sub-plate yesterday.  Actually did it twice, because I had a little drag with .005 of shims, so I had to back off to .003 shims.  I'm going to do that sub-plate dremmel mod next.

Thank you Sir!

[Earl Keese]

Thanks tdogg, time to fire up my dremel and buy a turnbuckle.

[tdogg]

So I have been fighting my Hornady case feeder for some time.  My issue has been mostly around how the case pivot block binds, then fails to pivot, and fails to drop a case down the drop tube.  I have contacted Hornady and received replacement parts and their upgrade kit that is supposed to help support the case feeder bracket (prevent it from getting pushed upward).  Nothing has fixed the issue and honestly I have cursed a few times all the while thinking I am going to dump this and buy a Dillon (still not off the table).

Here are what I think are the short falls of the Hornady design:

1.  The pot metal parts are too soft and they wear too easily.  This is where the problem starts.  If you over tighten the shoulder bolt holding the pivot block to the case drop tube bracket, the shoulder bolt will compress/wear into the bracket and cause the pivot block to start to bind.  If you glean anything from this post, only tighten the OEM shoulder bolt for the pivot block finger tight and use blue loctite to hold it in place.

2.  The bearing surface for the pivot block shoulder bolt is way too short/small.  It doesn't support the pivot block enough from tilting and that contributes to the galling and binding.

3.  The plastic bushing that supports the pushrod that activates the pivot block is crap.  There should be a bronze bushing or at minimum a better way to retain the bushing.  I've superglued and epoxied that plastic bushing into the bracket and it doesn't hold.  When the pivot block binds and the entire assembly gets pushed upward it causes a lateral load on the pushrod and it binds and pushes the bushing out of the bracket.

EDIT:  Found the source, Kaldor on thehighroad.com was my inspiration for this solution.  I found this idea when searching for the a better fix for the Hornady case feeder drop mechanism.  The solution is to eliminate the pot metal pivot block and replace it with a plastic piece.  Change out the shoulder bolt and put a straight through bolt to support it.  Replace the torsion spring with a standard spring.  I used PVC (because I had a it) but I image that HDPE or Acetal would be better.  I didn't use any JB Weld on the support bracket as I felt the length of the thread was sufficient for the new 1/4 x 20 pivot bolt.  My new 1/4 -20 pivot bolt was ~1/4 inch too long and hence the extra washers up top.

I've tested it with both 9mm and 40 S&W cases and it is so much smoother.  I have yet to load with it (just built it today).  I will post up once I get a chance to load a batch with it.  Based on how smooth it feels with my initial testing.  I'm thinking it is going to reduce my OAL variation significantly.  I took a video of it to show how it works/is built.

EDIT:  Link to original source of solution:  https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/hornady-lnl-case-feeder.821288/page-2

https://youtu.be/nn7ObNHa1e4

Sorry to resurrect the old thread but I thought it was best to add to my original LNL AP upgrades thead.  Feel free to ask any questions.

Cheers,
Toby

[Wobbly]

This is great ! Thanks.

[double-d]

Many thanks for sharing Mr. Dogg !

Now if only I can find a way to bookmark threads at this forum....

[Wobbly]

Now if only I can find a way to bookmark threads at this forum....

You can Copy the thread's link to a text file, and next to it note the subject.

[painter]

Many thanks for sharing Mr. Dogg !

Now if only I can find a way to bookmark threads at this forum....

What browser are you using?

[tdogg]

I just reloaded 200 40S&W with no hiccups with the pivot block or case feeder.   It was smooth and functional the entire session.  I don't want to jinx it but I'm pleased thus far.

As I expected my OAL variation was reduced as well.  I measured the entire 200 finished cartridges and the range for all of them was 0.006 inch (1.127-1.133).  This is going to help on target and over the chrono!

Cheers,
Toby

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[Earl Keese]

I've been using a printed case feeder and would like to add a proper one. If you had it to do over, would you do it again or switch to blue? I've done all of the typical mods to my LnL and recently switched to using a large o-ring for case retention. The o-ring made a big improvement in feel/vibration during indexing but my buddy's blue presses still run better.

[double-d]

What browser are you using?

Safari via MAC OS

[tdogg]

I've been using a printed case feeder and would like to add a proper one. If you had it to do over, would you do it again or switch to blue? I've done all of the typical mods to my LnL and recently switched to using a large o-ring for case retention. The o-ring made a big improvement in feel/vibration during indexing but my buddy's blue presses still run better.

That's a difficult question to answer.  The press has really been rock solid.   Obviously I've done a bit of tweaking but that is going to happen with whatever brand I own. 

Hornady's case feeder has really been a challenge to overcome.   It works but I'm constantly fighting keeping it running.   It's been frustrating to say the least.  This is the only part that has made me question my decision to choose Hornady.

But i don't know what I don't know with respect to Dillon.   Dillon probably has its own fair share of issues to work through. 

Hornady customer service had been great.   I called them up to order spare parts and they just send them out for free.  I can't complain at all on that front.

If I were you I'd try to plumb the case collator/feeder to your printed case feeder delivery shuttle and skip the hornady pivot assembly all together.

Cheers,
Toby

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[painter]

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