CZ P-10C vs. HK VP-9

[Vinny]

My question may be a bit too early as I don't believe P-10C's are out there yet but......
I'm wondering how this handgun will compare to my HK VP-9? For HD, Sport Shooting, or Service Duty. What's so special about it?

I love my metal frame 9mm CZ decockers, (SP-01, P-01, and RAMI BD) but I want to fit a Delta Point Pro 2.5 MOA onto my VP-9 and I've run into some mount incompatibility issues. I wonder what accommodation the new P-10C might have for reflex sight options.

Several Gen 4 Glocks are available with M.O.S. - Modular Optic System. Essentially the slide is pre-milled and come with a variety of adapter plates to accommodate most optics so they fit flush with top of slide. I could only hope that CZ might offer a new model like the P-10 that would come pre-milled like this. 

Yes, I know Leupold makes an adapter plate for CZ-75's but it raises the optic even higher, making co-witness sights that much more challenging.

Anyone have the inside track on what CZ might offer??

[ranastas]

For me personally the best outcome would be that their is enough meat on the top of the slide to have an rmr or dp pro milled into the slide. We probably won't know that till shops that do this work get a hold of the p10.
I am definitely jaded on this topic, I've carried a pistol with rmr milled slide for years now and I've owned a couple of the multi optic factory options. For me in the role I choose to use them in, they don't compare whatsoever.  YMMV but I use and train with them for daily carry self defense, and I feel that proper cowitness, durable proven optic, and rear sight behind optic are critical factors. I just feel the addition of a multi optic mounting plate pleases the masses but is a detriment to the system or concept. These are just the opinions of some one who uses an optic equiped handgun for daily use, if that's not your intended use for the gun then these points are moot.


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[oldfrank]

Being that Glock,Springfield and S&W all make an optic ready firearm, I have to believe CZ is considering it.
Especially with several of the gun games are allowing optics or considering them.
I have a Glock 19 MOS with a Burris FF3 and it cowitnesses fine with supressor height sights.

[ranastas]

Not downing anyone's choices or products, just stating my experience and opinion


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[DOC 1500]

You can also add to the list of Optics ready...
Canik TP9SFX

[Vinny]

For me personally the best outcome would be that their is enough meat on the top of the slide to have an rmr or dp pro milled into the slide. We probably won't know that till shops that do this work get a hold of the p10.
I am definitely jaded on this topic, I've carried a pistol with rmr milled slide for years now and I've owned a couple of the multi optic factory options. For me in the role I choose to use them in, they don't compare whatsoever.  YMMV but I use and train with them for daily carry self defense, and I feel that proper cowitness, durable proven optic, and rear sight behind optic are critical factors. I just feel the addition of a multi optic mounting plate pleases the masses but is a detriment to the system or concept. These are just the opinions of some one who uses an optic equiped handgun for daily use, if that's not your intended use for the gun then these points are moot.

Ranastas, Your experience and opinion are appreciated. I guess I'm not comfortable enough yet with using a reflex for self defense to go ahead and have my slide milled. I like the idea of M.O.S.  I had planned to try the optics for sport shooting first, meanwhile keep using my CZ's with night sites & light for defense.

If the slide is milled for MOS, couldn't the optic be mounted permanently where it's milled (with a little additional gunsmithing) later without the adapter plate? Of course, you would then have to lower your co-witness sights too; so I do understand your pov to just do it right from the get-go.

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[s0nspark]

For me personally the best outcome would be that their is enough meat on the top of the slide to have an rmr or dp pro milled into the slide. We probably won't know that till shops that do this work get a hold of the p10.
I am definitely jaded on this topic, I've carried a pistol with rmr milled slide for years now and I've owned a couple of the multi optic factory options. For me in the role I choose to use them in, they don't compare whatsoever.  YMMV but I use and train with them for daily carry self defense, and I feel that proper cowitness, durable proven optic, and rear sight behind optic are critical factors. I just feel the addition of a multi optic mounting plate pleases the masses but is a detriment to the system or concept.

Totally agree. My optic- equipped pistols are all milled. If someone at the factory wants to offer CZs milled for an RMR and include a cover plate I'd be all over it but short of that I will continue having my pistols milled.

Everything is a trade off. I choose to trade some extra cash for a solution that offers better performance ;-)

[ranastas]

For me personally the best outcome would be that their is enough meat on the top of the slide to have an rmr or dp pro milled into the slide. We probably won't know that till shops that do this work get a hold of the p10.
I am definitely jaded on this topic, I've carried a pistol with rmr milled slide for years now and I've owned a couple of the multi optic factory options. For me in the role I choose to use them in, they don't compare whatsoever.  YMMV but I use and train with them for daily carry self defense, and I feel that proper cowitness, durable proven optic, and rear sight behind optic are critical factors. I just feel the addition of a multi optic mounting plate pleases the masses but is a detriment to the system or concept.

Totally agree. My optic- equipped pistols are all milled. If someone at the factory wants to offer CZs milled for an RMR and include a cover plate I'd be all over it but short of that I will continue having my pistols milled.

Everything is a trade off. I choose to trade some extra cash for a solution that offers better performance ;-)

Exactly, and maybe I over do it. But anything worth doing is worth overdoing lol.



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[Vinny]

Ranastas and sOnspark, Your experience and opinion are appreciated. I guess I'm not comfortable enough yet with using a reflex for self defense to go ahead and have my slide milled. I like the idea of M.O.S.  I had planned to try the optics for sport shooting first, meanwhile keep using my CZ's with night sites & light for defense.

If the slide is milled for MOS, couldn't the optic be mounted permanently where it's milled (with a little additional gunsmithing) later without the adapter plate? Of course, you would then have to lower your co-witness sights too; so I do understand your pov to just do it right from the get-go.

[ranastas]

I'm sure someone could do it vinny but the cutout would be bigger than the optic, also remember having a pistol milled for a robust optic is not the end of the world if you don't like it.  Most companies that mill offer a saddle plate to fill the cut out when no optic is installed. I just sold one of my glocks  that was milled, installed saddle plate and off she went didn't hurt my investment at all.


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[s0nspark]

Ranastas and sOnspark, Your experience and opinion are appreciated. I guess I'm not comfortable enough yet with using a reflex for self defense to go ahead and have my slide milled. I like the idea of M.O.S.  I had planned to try the optics for sport shooting first, meanwhile keep using my CZ's with night sites & light for defense.

If the slide is milled for MOS, couldn't the optic be mounted permanently where it's milled (with a little additional gunsmithing) later without the adapter plate? Of course, you would then have to lower your co-witness sights too; so I do understand your pov to just do it right from the get-go.

Do you have an optic in mind? There are some solutions that mount via the rear sight dovetail - but it would come down to the particulars.

Just to be clear, there is certainly nothing wrong with sticking a toe into the water before leaping in ;-) Most of the factory options make concessions to be optic-agnostic. Aftermarket mounts are (generally) not as robust or anywhere as low profile as milling. For a hard use gun milling is hard to beat but if your use case is less demanding and/or more tolerant of "issues" then you defintely have other options for getting started.

FWIW I put off having a gun milled for several years out of concern for the price and worries I might not like it - one range trip after getting the first one milled and I was sold. ;-)

[ranastas]

Lol yep, doesent take long to see the benefits, especially since I'm getting older and my eyes aren't getting better.


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[ranastas]

Not a great picture but it does depict how well the irons clear the base of the rmr


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[s0nspark]

Anyone have the inside track on what CZ might offer??

Oh, forgot to ask: had you seen this? https://czcustom.com/new-firearms/cz-pistols-custom/cz-p09-carry-optic.html

[Vinny]

I'm glad I asked the question. This is really good info.

If I was starting from scratch, the ready-milled CZ Custom P-09 might be a good starting point.

However, I already have an 'extra' SP-01 and HK VP-9. I have two Delta-Point Pros (2.5 and 7.5 MOA)  I have a Leupold adapter plate for the CZ -75  No Leupold adapter that fits the VP-9.  My plan was to try the system out on the SP-01, even if a bit top-heavy with adapter plate; then go from there. Or, maybe trade out the HK VP-9 for something really better that's already milled, or go all-in on the SP-01 and just git 'er done!

That's why I asked about the P-10C to see what CZ has planned. I guess I'll just have to play out my hand and be patient.