New in guns. Love CZ modularity. Any cheaper versions of witness p carry?+More?s

[czkyle1776]

Love the looks and size of the witness polymer carry. Are there any clones of this clone? I'd go witness poly compact with 4.5 barrel, but the 22lr kits seem to be a rare item. If I went with a polymer 3.8 CZ type gun, would the compact 3.6 22lr conversion fit? I feel really confused with the different versions of conversions they have. Are there 3? Full size, 4.5, and carry 3.6? Why hasn't anyone else made a 22lr conversion for these guns? Seems like EAA can't keep up with demand if they're always sold out. To summarize, I like the witness polymer carry because of it's size and has a lot of caliber options. Primarily, 9mm and 22lr. The rest are bonus. I'd like to find one similar to this at a lower price, but don't know which conversion kits fit. Thank you!

[jwc007]

Welcome to the Forum! 

Love the looks and size of the witness polymer carry. Are there any clones of this clone?

The Armscor/RIA MAPP1 MS is a very similar direct Clone of the Witness P-Carry, made under license from Tanfoglio with many Tanfoglio supplied raw parts.



Then there are also the Sarsilmaz Polymer Framed Tanfoglio Clones, both of which I happen to own and run.


EAA imported SAR B6P and K2P 9mm Pistols

The Sarsilmaz K2P in particular is more common than the above referenced Armscor/RIA MAPP1 and currently on sale at low prices from distribution houses like CDNN.
However, it should be noted that the Slide assembly differs considerably from a Witness P-Carry, both in styling and Mechanical Lockup.


Sarsilmaz/EAA SAR K2P 9mm Field Stripped

It should also be noted that the SAR K2P will be replaced by the SAR CM9 Gen 2, so if you want the current style Pistol, better get one now!


SAR CM9 Gen 2

As for your questions on .22 LR conversions, some here have gotten the .22 LR Witness Conversion kits to work with their Sarsilmaz Pistols, but I much prefer my Ruger MkII, when it comes to .22 LR consumption.

[czkyle1776]

Thanks for the reply. Do you know which 22lr conversion is used for the k2p? It should be small frame, but EAA has both 3.6 and 3.8. thanks.

[czkyle1776]

Welcome to the Forum! 

Ok, I think I'm focusing too much on the barrel measurements (eg 3.6, 3.8, 4.5) as I saw a video on the sar b6p and sar k2p where the guy swapped the slides of those two guns and it worked fine. Instead I think I should just focus on the frame as being full size or compact. Since the witness polymer carry seems to be the same frame as polymer compact/ cz75 force/sar b6p frame even though the slides vary between them. Is this a logical way to look at this? Or are there even more variations to frame sizes besides the two (full, compact) and compatibility between CZ clones? Too bad there isn't a spreadsheet somewhere that shows the interchangeability of the CZ clones and CZ parts. Thanks for your help.

[darink300zx]

Kyle, not sure if you've done this or not, but you may want familiarize yourself with the small and large frame terminology in regards to witnesses as well.  This terminology has nothing to do with the terms full size, compact, semi-compact, etc.  I say this because as far as I know EAA only imports three 22lr conversion kits, two for the small frame witness (one is full length and one is compact) and one for the large frame witness, which is full length.  I could be mistaken on this, but I've only seen these three kits.

Since you mentioned the P-carry witness I assume you are referring to that specific model.  It is a large frame witness so you could only get the full length 22lr kit for it.  The P-Carry has a full length grip and takes full length magazines.  It is similar in size and appearance to the K2P and the Mapp that JW showed pics of, but they are both considered small frame.  The P-carry also differs from the other polymer witness models in it's unique cone barrel lock up, which is why it is quite a bit more expensive than other polymer witnesses. 

I know for a time the witness PS (which is a small frame witness) did come in full length and compact barrel lengths so it would also be a good alternative to the P-carry (minus the cone barrel lockup of course), but I haven't seen any of these for a while.  One of these with the compact 22lr conversion would suit your purposes though I'd think. 

Keep in mind as well, that you could use the full length 22lr conversion on a shorter/compact length slide gun.  For instance if you want the P-carry you could get the large frame 22lr conversion kit and it should function fine on it.  Your barrel will just be longer. 

Hope all that makes since. 

Darin.

[czkyle1776]

Kyle, not sure if you've done this or not, but you may want familiarize yourself with the small and large frame terminology in regards to witnesses as well.  This terminology has nothing to do with the terms full size, compact, semi-compact, etc.  I say this because as far as I know EAA only imports three 22lr conversion kits, two for the small frame witness (one is full length and one is compact) and one for the large frame witness, which is full length.  I could be mistaken on this, but I've only seen these three kits.

Since you mentioned the P-carry witness I assume you are referring to that specific model.  It is a large frame witness so you could only get the full length 22lr kit for it.  The P-Carry has a full length grip and takes full length magazines.  It is similar in size and appearance to the K2P and the Mapp that JW showed pics of, but they are both considered small frame.  The P-carry also differs from the other polymer witness models in it's unique cone barrel lock up, which is why it is quite a bit more expensive than other polymer witnesses. 

I know for a time the witness PS (which is a small frame witness) did come in full length and compact barrel lengths so it would also be a good alternative to the P-carry (minus the cone barrel lockup of course), but I haven't seen any of these for a while.  One of these with the compact 22lr conversion would suit your purposes though I'd think. 

Keep in mind as well, that you could use the full length 22lr conversion on a shorter/compact length slide gun.  For instance if you want the P-carry you could get the large frame 22lr conversion kit and it should function fine on it.  Your barrel will just be longer. 

Hope all that makes since. 

Darin.

Thank you so much for taking the time to clear that up. I actually think I'm going to go with one of the Sar clones. Either the k2p or the cm9 gen 2. That one is considered "small" frame, correct? If so, that's unfortunate because that's the 22lr kit that's sold out 😥

[darink300zx]

Thank you so much for taking the time to clear that up. I actually think I'm going to go with one of the Sar clones. Either the k2p or the cm9 gen 2. That one is considered "small" frame, correct? If so, that's unfortunate because that's the 22lr kit that's sold out 😥

I don't own either of those guns, maybe someone can chime in that does, but as far as I know they are considered a small frame tanfoglio design (other than the slide, of course).  I do believe they take CZ75b magazines which would lead me to believe they are small frame.  I do have the B6P and I know mine takes the small frame witness 22 conversion kit just fine.  That's one you hadn't mentioned, the b6PC, which is the compact version.  Shorter barrel and grip. 

[rabble_rouser]

K2P, B6P, and B6PC are all essentially the same frame but with cosmetic, height, and length differences; the small frame .22 conversion kit is what you want for any of them.

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[rabble_rouser]

Oh and for Pete's sake I hope you're not relying on EAA's website to buy a conversion kit, that's the most expensive option on the internet.

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