Which CZ?

[jimbomac]

Thanks Dos,

You're right, this is one of those fun decisions, and I'm enjoying it! I guess, when it comes down to it, my confusion is really about DA versus SA, and how each is available. Okay, here's how I understand it...please correct me if I'm wrong: You pull back the slide, you insert a loaded magazine, you release the slide, and there is now a cartridge in the chamber, and the hammer is back, ready to fire. This would be Single Action mode? So, if you weren't ready to fire the weapon, you (in one case) would manually de-cock the weapon, and put the safety on. When you turn the safety off, is that first trigger action SA or DA? And, in the case of a de-cocker, doesn't it work the same way? When you engage the de-cocker, lowering the hammer, wouldn't the next trigger pull be SA? Or is this where I'm confused?
Thanks!

[mbott]

Quote:So, if you weren't ready to fire the weapon, you (in one case) would manually de-cock the weapon, and put the safety on.

The safety on a CZ can only by applied with the gun fully cocked.  If the hammer is not fully cocked, the safety cannot be applied.  Not a safety issue as most CZs use a firing pin block that requires the trigger to be fully pulled before the gun can be fired.

Starting with the the hammer down, you would be in double action mode (assuming the gun supported DA).  Same with the decocker.  The decocker lowers the hammer to the half-cocked notch.  So the pull of the trigger 1) fully cocks the hammer and  2) fires the gun from the fully cocked position. That's double action.

--
Mike

[jimbomac]

Thanks mbott,

So what's the broohaha over manual safety versus de-cocker? I mean, the gun, wherever it is at any given moment, is probably not sitting with the hammer cocked... a round in the chamber, yes, but fully cocked, no. So does it matter how the hammer got to that lower position? In either case, wouldn't the first shot be DA? And in either case, couldn't you just pull back the hammer to fully cocked position? I'm just confused about the debate, I guess. Is it really that different, or is it just that a new mechanism has been added?
And, more important, how do I use this information to choose which CZ to buy?? I know, I probably can't go wrong, but it's still an important decision to me.

[mbott]

Quote:So what's the broohaha over manual safety versus de-cocker?

In my book, it doesn't really matter.  I have CZs with safetys and CZs with decockers.  One or the other generally does not influence my purchase decision.  

Quote:I mean, the gun, wherever it is at any given moment, is probably not sitting with the hammer cocked... a round in the chamber, yes, but fully cocked, no.

It could be with "cocked and locked" carry.  Cocked and locked was the carry method I first used to back in the mid to late '70s when I carried a 1911.

Quote:So does it matter how the hammer got to that lower position? In either case, wouldn't the first shot be DA?

 

Doesn't matter to me.  I'm comfortable with either manually lowering the hammer or using the decocker.

Quote:And in either case, couldn't you just pull back the hammer to fully cocked position?

That's why there's DA.  

Quote:I'm just confused about the debate, I guess. Is it really that different, or is it just that a new mechanism has been added?

You work and train with what you have.

Quote:And, more important, how do I use this information to choose which CZ to buy?? I know, I probably can't go wrong, but it's still an important decision to me.

It's whatever you feel the most comfortable with: whatever works for you.

--
Mike

[jimbomac]

So does this boil down to cocked and locked carry? If so, you are right, I don't see this (de-cocker versus manual safety) influencing my decision. Now it's down to the other differences between the two models, and I'll choose whichever I 'like' better.
Thanks, mbott.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Its of greater importance to some than others.

I do a bit of competitive shooting, and find that a cocked and locked start lets me get the first couple of shots off faster and more accurately.  Others may find otherwise -- and I know some master-level shooter who outshoot me when they start from hammer down.

I have guns that work both ways, and prefer cocked and locked, but don't feel totally at a disadvantage when working with a decocker gun.  I do have to take a bit of extra care when shooting the second shot with a DA/SA gun started from hammer down.

The issue is that the first shot and the second shots on a  DA/SA gun that is not started from cocked and locked have substantially different trigger pulls.

The first DA trigger pull is longer and heavier, and the second SA pull is shorter and lighter.  If you're not careful, the second shot comes BEFORE you want it to.  

When shooting rapidly, it takes more practice to master the DA/SA transition.  But it takes a lot of practice to master all aspects of shooting....

I'm one of  the folks who score most of our IDPA matches.  In competition you can see the differences between DA/SA starts and SA starts pretty quickly.  Most DA/SA shooters will not group their first two shots, but will group subsequent shots.  (The Master Level shooters do NOT have a problem with the DA/SA transiton, and group ALL their shots.  Pratice, practice, practice.)

If you concentrate on the front sight and concentrate on each trigger pull, it doesn't really make a difference.

[jimbomac]

Thanks for all of the imput, folks. I think I made the de-cocker a bigger issue than need be. When I was a kid learning to shoot, my dad taught me how to fire and manually de-cock a Colt 1911...I guess I just don't see the need for a de-cocking mechanism. As for the load in chamber indicator, the weapon will be either loaded (with a round in the chamber) or unloaded. Then add what Golddogman said about the compact, and that seals it for me.
So, now I am decided on the CZ 75 Compact 9mm, and I'll get it as soon as I can, and if the dealer doesn't have one in stock, I'll have him order one!
Thanks again, everyone, this is a great forum.

[dvsnse]

Yeah, some folks can make much ado about nothing when it comes to a manual safety versus a decocker.  It really does come down to personal preference.  

With the CZ line of compact size pistols, you end up making trade-offs (e.g. weight versus decocker in the case of the Compact 75 and PCR).  You get more trade-offs when you throw the P-01, Compact 75 .40 S&W, 40P, and CZ-100/110 into the mix.  A thumb safety version of the PCR would be my ideal compact 9mm CZ.  (I throw that out every chance I get, by the way.)

For whatever it's worth, there were some good deals on compact sized pistols in the Classifieds section recently.  You might find a price that's too good to pass up if you lurk around there a while.

[verbaltharhino]

Quote:For whatever it's worth, there were some good deals on compact sized pistols in the Classifieds section recently. You might find a price that's too good to pass up if you lurk around there a while.

A-Men.  I started rifling through the checkbook after I saw some of the deals going on in the classifieds on NIB guns.  I was able to hold out, though.  It was rough, but I did it.