MIM Parts in the CZ

[AZ_CZ]

Anything mechanical can fail. You should worry about your slide stop or trigger spring in a gun fight instead of something I've never heard of failing in a CZ.

[huskerlrrp]

I'm an engineer in the automotive industry and I echo the comments about if the part has design margin and a good Metal Injection Molding supplier is making them it can be a good idea for a complex part. It should never have the same fatigue life as a forged part though. I completely understand the attraction from the firearms industry ($$). The only thing I could think of on the sear cage that would concern me is the ejector. If they use it on firing mechanism parts I'll have to replace them with Cajan and CZ Custom parts...oh wait, I already do.

Here's a little animation of the process if anyone's interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SufKCjYRqh4

[Mjolnir]

I served 20 years in the auto industry as well. And one must be VERY smart about alloys and manufacturing processes. I want a carbon fiber chassis, brakes and clutch vehicle but I do not have the funds so... my car is made just like everyone else's car. [emoji38]

If you design the part with MIM in mind there is not usually an issue, as I've stated.

In aerospace they use HIP and MIM but they also use various alloys that cannot be formed otherwise to make an even stronger part. Same with knife blades (e.g., CPM 3V, ELMAX, etc.). I'm not sure what their limit is for porosity, density, etc., but you lose some of the cost benefit but the mechanical properties exceed what you could normally get so it "does not matter".

When I was living in Detroit we scanned parts and took the files to shops who would create them the way we wanted - CNC from forging, cryo, Melonite, DLC coat.

It was fun times!

Look at the Extractors of modern pistols that are MIM (except Glock): large cross section, no sharp radii - good opportunity for MIM. Part of Glock's issues with the Gen 4 was horribly produced Extractors (they were MIM and the worst I had ever seen). They are also a great opportunity for near net shape production yet are an engineering challenge to do properly (complex geometry in a very small package).

Hint: buy an Apex Tactical Failure Resistance Extractor. [emoji6]



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[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Look at the Extractors of modern pistols that are MIM (except Glock): large cross section, no sharp radii - good opportunity for MIM. Part of Glock's issues with the Gen 4 was horribly produced Extractors (they were MIM and the worst I had ever seen). They are also a great opportunity for near net shape production yet are an engineering challenge to do properly (complex geometry in a very small package).

Hint: buy an Apex Tactical Failure Resistance Extractor. [emoji6]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's more going on with the gen 4 glock than the extractor and glock won't admit they did something wrong. Many have upgraded to the Apex extractor and still get smacked in the face with spent casings.

[twowheels]

I wonder what other parts in the CZ are MIM? 

In my 1911s, I always prefer forged parts.  On my older series 70 stainless Kimber, I replaced the hammer, sear and disconnector with forged parts that I polished, fitted and tuned.  It runs smoother and better than when it was stock.

Also think about the debate in 1911 circles about forged versus cast frames.  My 1911s all use forged frames (3 Dan Wessons and an older Kimber).  The CZ frames are cast but nobody (including myself) complains about that.

We will have to see how the new sear caged hold up.  I expect fine. 

I love my CZs, all of which have parts from CZC and/or CGW.

[REAinPA]

I'm an engineer in the automotive industry and I echo the comments about if the part has design margin and a good Metal Injection Molding supplier is making them it can be a good idea for a complex part. It should never have the same fatigue life as a forged part though. I completely understand the attraction from the firearms industry ($$). The only thing I could think of on the sear cage that would concern me is the ejector. If they use it on firing mechanism parts I'll have to replace them with Cajan and CZ Custom parts...oh wait, I already do.

Here's a little animation of the process if anyone's interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SufKCjYRqh4

Very cool. Thank you.

[dbarn]

Curious as to why the safety version and not the de-cock or tactical one?

Guessing they will all eventually be MIM?

I too remember the issues that Glock had with their MIM extractors, but also agree there were other issues that they did not want to admit. If you examined them closely, the mim extractors had little to no final finishing. It was as if they came strait out of the mold. The earlier cast version was machined to a better more uniform shape. I have some close-up photos somewhere of the two.

I  have no issues with MIM if done properly. However, there is little doubt that Glock kept their pricing low by changing their manufacturing methods and having teething issues on the Gen 4. As long as quality does not suffer no problem. Fortunately there is CGW.

[1SOW]

 
AS said,  hopefully not used on high stress parts like the slide stops,ejectors and extractors.

huskerlrrp, Thanks for the great graphics illustration of the process! 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

AS said,  hopefully not used on high stress parts like the slide stops,ejectors and extractors.

huskerlrrp, Thanks for the great graphics illustration of the process!

As schmeky stated in his opening post the sear cages are mim. So with that in mind the ejector which is integral will be mim. Lots of mim slide stops,ejectors,and extractors being used by everyone else and they are working just fine.

[1SOW]

I understand.,  but several slide stop"s"  and an extractor have failed on my pistols.  One CZ sear has also failed.  This doesn't  inspire confidence. All parts wear,  but this doesn't inspire confidence in mim. 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Yep I get it but were the parts really mim? Parts fail it's that simple. I bet a $4K 1911 from (You pick your poison) with it's top of the line machined and forged parts won't run as long without a failure as a bone stock CZ75B will.

[1SOW]

True,  the weak link fails first.
The non-mim STI 40s  and custom 45s commonly need "fitted mags" NIB for spares.   Shooters I know accept that as "normal".   

[clinttho]

We have observed the newest batch of SP-01 manual safety CZ's now use a Metal Injection Molded (MIM) sear cage assembly.  If you have followed the MIM controversy in the 1911 circle you'll find most pundits have denigrated the use of MIM.

If done right, MIM is an excellent choice for small, complex parts that require repeatable precision.  The majority of older machined CZ sear cages have displayed very rough machining in critical areas.   These new MIM parts have cured this.

My guess is we will see more MIM parts in the majority of "regular" 75's in the future.  Besides, CZ has been doing this in many of it's current models for years with no issues.

Any idea if the SP01 Phantoms share the MIM sear cage assembly? I know they?re decocker not safety versions. If you or anyone else can chime in I?d appreciate it. Thanks!

[Shadow knows]

Personally not a fan of certain parts being MIM and have have been replaced in my 1911's. Others I have not had issues

[FluffyTheCat]

My Shadow 2 was made in April 2017.

Would it have the MIM sear cage?