Gen 3 P07/09

[Raining_Brass]

Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.

I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.

I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.

The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better?  Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.

Thanks for your expertise, Vinny

Aaron Cowan did a pretty in depth review on it and he wasn't very impressed with it. That said, we've milled slides for dozens of them and to my knowledge they're all still going strong. I would suspect the added cost is due to the fact that the RMS has a billet CNC machined housing, and the J Point is simply polymer injected.

[Vinny]

Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.

I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.

I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.

The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better?  Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.

Thanks for your expertise, Vinny

Aaron Cowan did a pretty in depth review on it and he wasn't very impressed with it. That said, we've milled slides for dozens of them and to my knowledge they're all still going strong. I would suspect the added cost is due to the fact that the RMS has a billet CNC machined housing, and the J Point is simply polymer injected.

Thanks for the info. 
I guess I'm trying to respond to the OP in terms of what CZ might do in a 'Gen 3'

Although I wish CZ would offer a pre-milled P-07/09 to fit a standard competitively priced RDS it probably ain't gonna happen any time soon. Too bad, if a stock front sight would work with slide milled for RDS, it would make a very affordable total cost for the average CZ owner to have milled in, co-witness, RDS, for +$200-250.

Nice to see that Primary is offering some 'milling and RDS package deals', and some solutions to co-witness. However, total cost may still be out of reach for many.

It's moving in the right direction. 

[Raining_Brass]

Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.

I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.

I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.

The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better?  Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.

Thanks for your expertise, Vinny

Aaron Cowan did a pretty in depth review on it and he wasn't very impressed with it. That said, we've milled slides for dozens of them and to my knowledge they're all still going strong. I would suspect the added cost is due to the fact that the RMS has a billet CNC machined housing, and the J Point is simply polymer injected.

Thanks for the info. 
I guess I'm trying to respond to the OP in terms of what CZ might do in a 'Gen 3'

Although I wish CZ would offer a pre-milled P-07/09 to fit a standard competitively priced RDS it probably ain't gonna happen any time soon. Too bad, if a stock front sight would work with slide milled for RDS, it would make a very affordable total cost for the average CZ owner to have milled in, co-witness, RDS, for +$200-250.

Nice to see that Primary is offering some 'milling and RDS package deals', and some solutions to co-witness. However, total cost may still be out of reach for many.

It's moving in the right direction. 

Yes for co witness on the 07/09 you have a couple options:

Shield RMS can fit in front OEM dovetail and co witness with OEM non suppressor height (or suppressor) sights.
Trijicon RMR & Vortex Viper must replace OEM dovetail, but we offer co witness sights for those as well with user choice of new dovetail in front or behind optic.
Venom & FF III also have to go in place of OEM dovetail but could co witness if one wanted to order custom height sights from Dawson Precision (and have ridiculously tall suppressor height sights).
DP Pro is pretty unreasonable for a co witness. Some of our customers have used the iron that attaches to the DP Pro with like a .500" tall Dawson Precision front. It works, but pretty ridiculous looking and holster choices will be absolutely non existnet unless you give the gun to someone to custom make for you.

[Vinny]

Raining Brass,
Would love to see image of Shield RMS with CZ's OEM sights co-witnessing. Does Primary offer a package deal with milling and Shield optic? Didn't see on Primary website; but it does sound like a perfect set-up for a P-07/P-09 carry/optic gun.

Might save me the trouble of trying to reinvent the wheel for my P-09 SR

Thanks

[Raining_Brass]

Don?t have any pics but we?ve done loads.

Our Instagram is the best place to go for anything Primary Machine. If we have a pic of it, that?s where you?ll find it.

[Vinny]

Ah Ha! You learn something new every day on the CZ Forum! Thanks Raining Brass for the Tip!

The J-Point RDS is actually the first generation SMS (Shield Mini-Sight) made by Shield, imported from UK to USA by JP Enterprises. It features a rugged polymer frame.
The Shield RMS (Reflex mini-sight) is an upgraded version with aluminum frame and has a battery drawer, but they both work similarly well.

Here's a link to a review:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/08/tfb-review-shield-rms-reflex-miniature-sight/

Haven't heard much about them yet in USA, but they're apparently very big in Europe. As mentioned, I've had the J-Point on my SP-01 and Mossberg for 1-1/2 years with no issues.

So, either J-Point or SMS can be milled into CZ P-07/09, fit Leupold mount pattern or plates, and are low-profile enough to still use Factory OEM front and rear sight to co-witness. Saves cost of taller replacement sights, extra sight dovetail milling, and co-witnesses keeping original sights in place.

That's GREAT news!

[Raining_Brass]

Yes they have been in the mini red dot game for a LONG time (in the world of mini red dots) and they?re an OEM manufacturer to quite a few companies.
Another fun fact: somewhere around 07 or 08 they actually began manufacturing the old, ORIGINAL RMR for Trijicon as well, which was called the Trijicon RedDot. And you will also notice that it looks exactly like the RMS and J Point. This was before Trijicon brought the manufacturing to the US, went to the forged aluminum housing, etc.

[Vinny]

Thanks to Raining Brass I found this:
Summary of  Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics 4 year exhaustive study of mini-red dots on handguns for M&P use.

https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-handgun-red-dot-study-sage-dynamics/

Anyone doubting the effectiveness of RDS should read this. Someday, they will be as prolific as scopes on rifles.

If CZ ever plans a P-07/09 'Gen 3'......in addition to some of the good ideas in this thread, IMHO It should also accommodate a RDS, co-witnessing the factory sights.

This old dog can still learn new tricks.