Scout Rifle

[BRASMAN]

First of all is it ok to talk about rifles here? If this gets moved please email or PM me and let me know where it got moved to. Thanks.

   Who here has read some about the scout rifle theory that was supported and I think pioneered by Cooper. I like the idea and am considering setting one up. The Steyer would be my first choice but is out of the question. I need to be below $1000 even after I buy the glass so please bear with me and also I would like to talk about the whole concept.  
   I am not a run and gun type of guy. I have a rifle to run and gun with if you will but unfortunatly I do not have unlimited endurance like some guy in a video game. I am more of a sneek and peek guy when it comes to survival. I am not a doomsday Mad Max philosophy person either. I know for home defense a bolt scout rifle is not the best idea. I am a shotgun guy any way when it comes to that for several reasons but that is another post. I am not opposed to a semi auto scout rifle is it is in the budget crtieria.
   My thoughts on the rifle are several require ments please add your own as well.
1. Standard easy to get ammo. Bulk would be good.
2. Accurate enough to drop a deer sized animal at 300yrds
3. Bolt or Semi but not over $700 for rifle set up alone so I can buy some decent glass.
4. easy to handle and not over 20" preferably carbine type leangth.
5. ability to have some sort of iron sight even if you took a broken scope off and put the sights on in the field so the sights must come on the rifle or be easy to put on.
6. Be able to be reliable in a very dirty dust environment. I live in the desert and mountains.
 
Some rifles I have considered
Ruger Frontier, Savage scout, mauser, Saiga .308 (do not know about the acuracy part yet). .308 Vepr in carbine leangth but a tad heavy, Moisin Nagant. The Nagant is easy to get ammo for now but I do not know about future although I do reload and can get brass.

Any more thoughts would be great.

[mbott]

Just about any firearm topic is appropriate here as long as there's not a more appropriate CZ board already here.  Scout away.

--
Mike

[BRASMAN]

I you used an AK or SKS this mount would work well I think and is a lot cheaper than the Ultimak. I am going to contact them and see if one wold work on the moisin Nagant.

[jwc007]

Currently, I have built 2 semi Scout Rifles.  

A Bolt Action based on a Ludwig & Loewe M95 Mauser Action (Columbian Crest) set in a Fiberglass stock, to be scoped with a 2.5x Pistol Scope.  An AO Sight Systems Tube Mount is Epoxied to the barrel.  Caliber is 7x57mm Mauser.

A 185 Series Ruger Mini-14, set in a Choate Fiberglass Pistol Gripped Stock, scoped with a Burris 2.5x Pistol Scope, mounted on a Chief AJ mount, that replaced the top of the Bolted on Gas Block.

I may build another from an Ishapore 2A Enfield in 7.62mm NATO, but have not decided as yet.

[BRASMAN]

So what kind of epoxy did you use to epoxy the mount? Is that a secure platform? I have never seen that before. Most likely mine will be a bolt action however a lever gun in 45/70 would be interesting but I do not think it could go the 300yrd mark accuratly. I bet your mauser does no problem.

[jwc007]

This time I used Acraglass Stock Bedding Epoxy, but I have seen others use JB Weld.  And yes, the Mauser will reach out there, no problem.  I have only shot targets with it at 200 yards, but 300 should be OK.  However, I try to restrict my game taking to 200 yards or less.  I have used the lighter 145 grn bullets for it at closer ranges, but go to the 175 grn bullet weight for more open/longer ranges and sight in accordingly.  I had a Tasco 30mm pistol scope on it but am now looking for a smaller, more compact one. Currently, I'm considering a BSA Pistol Scope that Sportsmansguide sells.

A buddy of mine has built a semi-Scout rifle on a Mosin Nagant he picked up at a yard sale for $50.  He also built another on an Ishapore Enfield 2A.  I have 2 Ishapore Enfields on hand to Sporterize, hence my interest in that conversion.

AO Sight Systems does make a Scout Mount and Ghost Ring Sights for Marlin 45/70's, so that might make a nice Lever Scout.

Have thought about a Scout Mount for my Egyptian Maadi AKM or my Chinese Milled SKS.  This might be the winner.
scoutscopes.com/index.html

[BRASMAN]

OOOps. I meant to put that link in my post above sorry. It must have sounded pointless with out the link Ha Ha. I am not realy planning on taking game at 300 I just want the rifle to be able to hit it and take it at that range I would probably miss even if the rifle could hit. So did you use Arc glass or JB weld to actualy put a scope mount on or bed the rifle? I thought you said you used it to put on a scope mount which is what suprised me but not in a bad way I was just curious how it worked. One of my Nagants is getting converted to a scout rifle for sure. I will probably go with the BSA pistol scope on my Nagant because of the price and believe it or not I read that the pistol scope was made in the States.? I will probably also end up with the 45/70 and some form of .308 for sure. I am a .308 fan and a 45/70 fan. My Nagant will be a Bargan set up with a cheap sling and my .45/70 will be modest but good however when I build my .308 I want to go all out except keep my rifle at the before mentioned price. All of them must be rugged though. I was going to replace the wood stck on my Nagant however I pesonaly find the food one even though not a looker to be very comfortable and fast handeling and I am suprised out of the accuracy at 50yrd (have not had a chance to go further yet) I do not know what the grouping was but I could hit a spent 12ga shell every time and that was with me standing up and unsupported. I gueuss what I realy can not believe is that I could hit it standing up unsupported LOL. I would realy love to have the Steyer but I think for the same price or less I could get a SA M1A SOCOM. I have also thought about getting a CZ 550 American in .308.. What kind of accuracy does your buddy get from his Nagant so far. I see them at a sporting goods store from time to time Arsenal refinished for $69.00 but you have to get their fast. Thats why I have a couple. LOL. I will probably use the one without the folding spike or buy another without the folding spike. Even an unissued one for $170 is a good deal to me. It is built a lot tougher than the rifles you see new for $350. This is a great discussion.

[BRASMAN]

I have read this before and saw it again and thought I would post it because I think it is interesting.


"A general purpose rifle is a conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target of up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in a vital area of the target."
-- Jeff Cooper, To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth

Cooper's Principles of Practical Riflery:
Make first-round hits, at unknown distances, from improvised positions, with a cartridge appropriate to the purpose, under time pressure.

I am amazed at how the thought of a practical rifle has changed since the AWB sunset. Do not get me wrong I am glad it did and buy mags and stuff whenever I can and think every gun owner should get a rifle that takes hi cap mags. However some of the thoughts and opinions people posted on forums and conversations I had with people before are 180% different now. Reading books like the Art of WAR and other military history and tactical books makes me think about what rifle I would actualy use if I had to and what rifle that I have is the most deadly. The book Warriors of the steppe to me is a eye opener to tactics and philosophy. Do not take me wrong either I am strictly arm chair if you will. I think the scout rifle is a fabulous concept though.

[jwc007]

The AO Sight Systems Tube Scout Scope Mount is Acraglassed to the barrel of my M95 Mauser.  It was handy, as the action was bedded with it.  Also filled a forward portion of the fore-end that was hollow.  The Barrel is free floated.

My friend with the Mosin Scout made his own tube mount with some pipe and a section of Picatinny or Weaver rail.  It was JB Welded to the barrel of the Mosin.  A BSA Pistol scope is mounted to it and works very well, hence my interest in it.  Very surprising that they are made in the USA, given the price, but that would be another incentive for me to buy one, what with everything being made in Red China these days.  Found out that Bushnell is now made in Red China as a 1.5x-4.5x Variable Shotgun Scope I recently bought was made there.  Really had to look at the fine print to find out!

[BRASMAN]

It was suprising to me too. Most of BSAs stuff is made in China but several times I have seen the pistol scoped advertised as made in USA. Go figure. I think the Ching ring is somehow glued to the barrel also and they are tuff as nails. Unfortunantly they are not realy being made any more. Springfield used to make a dandy scout scope and I have not seen it in a while. The retical on it seemed very useful for snap shooting but not very suited for percise shooting since the dot was so big however it is probably what I would get if they still made it. Most of my shooting is never off of a bench now unless I am sighting something in. Marksmanship and being able to handle a rifle is to me as important as learning how to change a tire and the oil in your car in that it is one of those things that we should try to pass down to our youth. An M-4ergery is nice but only if you know how to use one.

[BRASMAN]

Boy if the SA Socom was not so $$$$ I would get one in a heart beat. I looked at that and a standard rifle and I realy liked the sights on the SOCOM and of course the forward scope mount. I think it would certainly be reliable enough to fit the bill and accurate enough. It may weigh more than what I want in this rifle though.