Author Topic: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::  (Read 6720 times)

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Offline s0nspark

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2018, 03:41:56 PM »
IIRC the gun now ships with the same RSA as the VP40. The early guns shipped with a very light recoil spring which led to some issues with FTRTB
It does ship with the same RSA as the VP40, which is the same RSA the VP9 has always shipped with everywhere but the USA.   It's the RSA the pistol was designed with.

Wow - I did not know THAT. Interesting choice HK... ;-)
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Offline Rickytick

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 06:46:03 PM »
I can't speak for the sk model but the regular vp9  is a great pistol and very accurate. The only thing I have done to it was try different grip panels and back straps. My p10c now has talon grips and a flat trigger.  It too is very accuate and I would be hard pressed to say which one is the better shooter. 

Offline 2tango2

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2018, 09:04:58 PM »
Currently have a P30L, P30SK (LEM triggers on both) and a USP Compact

Love the paddle magazine release.  Had a VP9 that sold to fund another gun but would have no qualms getting a VP9SK.

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Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2018, 09:08:24 PM »
Quote
He's not using the term 'flatter shooting' the same way you are.  You're using it in the traditional way, but people on the interwebs have started using the term to refer to the degree to which the muzzle rises or how violently or erratically the pistol moves under recoil, typically with the belief that higher muzzle climb translates to later follow-up shots.

That explains it.  I've not seen anyone describe reduced muzzle flip as "flatter shooting."   

The proper grip makes the erratic or violent movement less of an issue.  (Watch really good semi-auto shooters on YouTube and it is amazing at just how little movement you see,  And they're not always shooting really light loads.)

Because the bullet is out of the barrel before the slide has moved more than maybe 1/10th of an inch, "flip" (in a semi-auto) should have almost no effect on accuracy but it can make getting the gun back on target quickly a little harder/slower.  Revolvers are different, and flip there plays a bigger role in bullet placement.

Offline pdq5oh

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2018, 11:00:52 AM »
I had a VP9 and a P30SK. Both were nice pistols but I never shot them all that well. The P30 wasn't any more concealable than my PPQ or any other similar size gun. I shot the PPQ much better than either. Now I have a P10 and shoot it better than any of those. I feel it's likely more a byproduct of a better fit in my hand. I'm really quite happy with the P10.
Phil

Offline IDescribe

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2018, 12:38:23 PM »

The proper grip makes the erratic or violent movement less of an issue.  (Watch really good semi-auto shooters on YouTube and it is amazing at just how little movement you see,  And they're not always shooting really light loads.)


^^^THIS^^^

Recoil control is a function of grip and stance.  Too many production shooters wring their hands over minuscule differences in felt recoil while getting smoked by people shooting .40 major.   ::)

Offline myczaccount

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2018, 02:38:49 PM »
Recently got a VP9 Tactical and absolutely love it. Currently the only striker fired in my lineup (since I sold my G19 last summer).

I?m now looking eagerly at a P-07
CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical
CZ 75 Pre B (1995)
CZ P-07
CZ P-10C
Sig Sauer P365 X Macro
Sig Sauer P226 ASE
Smith & Wesson Shield Plus

Offline wyoung

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2018, 11:28:24 PM »


I had a VP9 and a P30SK. Both were nice pistols but I never shot them all that well. The P30 wasn't any more concealable than my PPQ or any other similar size gun. I shot the PPQ much better than either. Now I have a P10 and shoot it better than any of those. I feel it's likely more a byproduct of a better fit in my hand. I'm really quite happy with the P10.

Good to know. I had a VP9 but let it go to get my P10. The VP9 grip is fine but my P10 fits me fine without all the panels. I was pretty set on getting a PPQ but don't really see the point. My P10 is really accurate.

Offline pdq5oh

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2018, 12:39:48 PM »
wyoung, for me the P10 points and handles better then the other three pistols I mentioned. I'll shoot some IDPA matches with it this summer and see how that works out.
Phil

Offline mechehog

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2018, 03:21:04 PM »
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Offline s0nspark

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 03:46:10 PM »
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties. 
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline pdq5oh

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2018, 11:11:41 PM »
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.
Phil

Offline badwrench

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2018, 10:56:59 AM »
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.

I had the same problem as well with the ppq I had, after a couple thousand rounds, the trigger got noticably lighter, I checked it with a trigger pull gage that the LGS I bought it from had.  When new, it was 4.5 lbs, after a couple thousand rounds it got down to 3lbs,15oz - 4.0 lbs.. way too light for a striker fired pistol with no manual saftey, I quit carrying it, it was a accident waiting to happen. I sold it shortly after checking the trigger.
As far as which is better, the VP9 or the P-10, I've had both, I still have the VP9, the VP9 is overly complicated internally, but, it's also had fewer problems when first released than the P-10 has had, the striker for example dosen't rotate, the slide release, and mag releases were'nt stiff or needed polishing to work acceptably, they were fine out of the box. I'd also say that internally the VP9 is finished better. It's going to be up to the buyer to decide, on the plus side, the P-10 is smaller, and is just as accurate as the VP9, the VP9's grip is almost as long as a g17, and yet holds fewer rounds. All pistols are a compromise, they all give up something to gain another, it's up to the buyer to figure out what compromises they can live with..
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 11:09:42 AM by badwrench »

Offline s0nspark

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2018, 11:09:53 AM »
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.

I had the same problem as well with the ppq I had, after a couple thousand rounds, the trigger got noticably lighter, I checked it with a trigger pull gage that the LGS I bought it from had.  When new, it was 4.5 lbs, after a couple thousand rounds it got down to 3.9-4.0 lbs.. way too light for a striker fired pistol with no manual saftey, I quit carrying it, it was a accident waiting to happen.
As far as which is better, the VP9 or the P-10, I've had both, I still have the VP9, the VP9 is overly complicated internally, but, it's also had fewer problems when first released than the P-10 has had, the striker for example dosen't rotate, the slide release, and mag releases were'nt stiff or needed polishing to work acceptably, they were fine out of the box. I'd also say that internally the VP9 is finished better. It's going to be up to the buyer to decide, on the plus side, the P-10 is smaller, and is just as accurate as the VP9, the VP9's grip is almost as long as a g17, and yet holds fewer rounds. All pistols are a compromise, they all give up something to gain another, it's up to the buyer to figure out what compromises they can live with..

The internal complexity of the VP9 (and, truthfully, the desire for a hammer-fired gun) is what drove me back to CZ and the P-07. I really enjoy being able to replace parts and do basic maintenance on my guns and, with HK, I just felt like that wasn't going to happen since they do not offer their armorers course and documentation to non-LE/military folks.

David at CGW (@schmeky) has been absolutely phenomenal and encouraging in sharing his wealth of knowledge and expertise with the CZ user base. Really, I see that as pretty unprecedented, at least with regard to the platforms I've had experience with.
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline badwrench

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Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2018, 02:33:28 PM »
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.

I had the same problem as well with the ppq I had, after a couple thousand rounds, the trigger got noticably lighter, I checked it with a trigger pull gage that the LGS I bought it from had.  When new, it was 4.5 lbs, after a couple thousand rounds it got down to 3.9-4.0 lbs.. way too light for a striker fired pistol with no manual saftey, I quit carrying it, it was a accident waiting to happen.
As far as which is better, the VP9 or the P-10, I've had both, I still have the VP9, the VP9 is overly complicated internally, but, it's also had fewer problems when first released than the P-10 has had, the striker for example dosen't rotate, the slide release, and mag releases were'nt stiff or needed polishing to work acceptably, they were fine out of the box. I'd also say that internally the VP9 is finished better. It's going to be up to the buyer to decide, on the plus side, the P-10 is smaller, and is just as accurate as the VP9, the VP9's grip is almost as long as a g17, and yet holds fewer rounds. All pistols are a compromise, they all give up something to gain another, it's up to the buyer to figure out what compromises they can live with..

The internal complexity of the VP9 (and, truthfully, the desire for a hammer-fired gun) is what drove me back to CZ and the P-07. I really enjoy being able to replace parts and do basic maintenance on my guns and, with HK, I just felt like that wasn't going to happen since they do not offer their armorers course and documentation to non-LE/military folks.

David at CGW (@schmeky) has been absolutely phenomenal and encouraging in sharing his wealth of knowledge and expertise with the CZ user base. Really, I see that as pretty unprecedented, at least with regard to the platforms I've had experience with.

I have to agree with you, I've never understood how HK could take a simple striker fired pistol and over complicate it to the degree that it uses 56 parts, when Glocks and the P-10 use around 34-36 parts. I guess it's because they're German and over complicating things runs in their blood..My experience with the PPQ, is in part why I went back to hammer fired guns, that and alot of good discussion over at pistol-forum, from some SME's that had alot street experience.. One thing I saw on the 'net really pushed me over to hammer fired pistols, was a dash cam video of a LEO, who after chasing this guy on a motorcycle, pulls the guy over, and accidently shot him with a Glock,  from what I could figure, the stress combined with all the adrenaline of chasing this guy, and he likely had tunnel vision, he probably did'nt notice that he was gripping the pistol, and the trigger, tighter, and tighter until it went off.. had that been a DA/SA pistol, it might not have happened. That vid is also a good lesson for those folks who run light triggers on a striker fired pistol (like a PPQ) that dosen't have a manuel saftey..

I had CGW do some work on my steel framed SP-01compact, it turned out great, one thing I had done was to have the frame,barrel, slide, saftey levers, trigger, and slide stop sent off and black nitrided.. Waaay better than polycoat, and very rust resistant.. the little porker is still on the heavy side, and this is where the polymer framed guns shine, they are much easier to carry.. but it is a sweetheart to shoot. I'm not parting with it anytime soon.