S&B 9mm M Case Is Way Short, But Not .380 or 9mm Kurtz -- Ever Seen One?

[Sidecar2]

Was reloading some random range 9mm brass today and per usual, fit-checked each reloaded round in my Lyman Ammo Checker chamber gauge.

One round fell into the chamber. Never seen this before. The normal 9mm case measures 0.752-inch length. This short case, marked "S&B 9mm M" measures 0.712-inch. It will not fit into the .380 chamber checker, so it's not a .380, but it's not a 9mm either. No way it would fire. The firing pin could never reach the primer.

Ever seen anything like it or what gun would shoot it?

First image is the S&B case.
Second image is the S&B falling into the case checker.
Third image is a normal 9mm fitting into the case checker.

[Sidecar2]

I'll answer my own question.

Apparently the case is a 9mm Makarov, hence the 9mm "M"

Leave it to the Russians....

[ReloaderFred]

Yes, it's the 9x18 Makarov.  They're a pain when sorting .380 and 9x19 and you have some 9x18 mixed in.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I'll answer my own question.

Apparently the case is a 9mm Makarov, hence the 9mm "M"

Leave it to the Russians....

Very common surplus round today.I know many people who have bought those guns over the years. Like many things after the "wall" came down those guns and ammo came flooding in at really good prices.
Luckily no one is currently shooting one at my go to range so I haven't encountered one in some time.
They are a big pain to sort lust like having to weed out the .380's

[Sidecar2]

At least I can spot the .380 when reloading because the .380ACP and 9mm rims are different. Not likely to make it through the reloading cycle on the Dillon 550.

What unnerved me with the Makarov is that it fit into the press just like a 9mm Luger, I sized it, primed it, charged it with powder, and seated and crimped a bullet into the case.

I had no idea the 9mm M was there until I checked it in the chamber gauge.

It's an additional reason why I need to check every single round before packaging them up for shooting.

That final check is also where I find split cases or bad primer seating that I didn't see during reloading.

[Wobbly]

Luger is 9x19mm
Makarov is 9x18mm
380Auto is 9x17mm

You really need to exercise that MM button on your Harbor Freight caliper more often.

 

[Sidecar2]

Luger is 9x19mm
Makarov is 9x18mm
380Auto is 9x17mm

You really need to exercise that MM button on your Harbor Freight more often.

 

Never!

Metric is like soccer. There is a single nation that landed men on the moon. All the others play soccer and use the metric system.

After a lifetime reloading genuine American calibers -- .45 ACP (winner of WWI and WWII) and .357 Magnum and .38 Special -- I'm just getting used to this foreign 9mm stuff (losers of WWI and WWII).

Three 9mm cases, each ?0.03937? inch shorter than the next, And they're tapered, too. What a pain.

And the foreign guns that shoot them! Russian, Czech, German, Brazilian. It's a conspiracy against American iron I tells ya.

However, I do admit to liking my Walther PPQ22 and P99c AS, my H&K VP9SK, my CZ P-10c and 75 D Compact PCR, and even the Taurus Judge. It's a grudging admiration.

And now the German Sig Sauer is the official US Army sidearm after the roost was owned by the Italian Beretta.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

Where have you gone John Browning? A nation turns its lonely eyes toward you.

[Igrlik]

...
What unnerved me with the Makarov is that it fit into the press just like a 9mm Luger, I sized it, primed it, charged it with powder, and seated and crimped a bullet into the case.
...

There is no reason not to shoot it too! Extractor will hold it enough to ignite. No difference, standard shot... 

[Sidecar2]

...
What unnerved me with the Makarov is that it fit into the press just like a 9mm Luger, I sized it, primed it, charged it with powder, and seated and crimped a bullet into the case.
...

There is no reason not to shoot it too! Extractor will hold it enough to ignite. No difference, standard shot... 

While this particular round, with its 9mm Luger .355" bullet and powder charge in it might have fired, I'm not taking the chance. The shorter case means higher pressure.

The real danger comes if you try to shoot actual 9x18 Makarov ammo in a 9mm Luger pistol. Turns out the Makarov bullet is .365" in diameter (9.3mm for Wobbly  ) -- much larger than the .355 inch Luger bullet.

Here's a 9mm pistol slightly modified by shooting Makarov ammo in it.

https://www.quora.com/Can-I-shoot-9x18-though-apistol-chambered-for-9x19

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

^^^^You never fire any ammo in any gun that was not specifically designed for it. There's no reason to even attempt such a thing unless you don't like the gun or you have decided having all your fingers attached to your hand bothers you.

[Igrlik]

...
While this particular round, with its 9mm Luger .355" bullet and powder charge in it might have fired, I'm not taking the chance. The shorter case means higher pressure.
...

The shorter case means only the shorter case, not higher pressure, because of the same OAL, hence the same space in case under bullet.
I NEVER SAID TO SHOOT 9mm MAKAROV FROM LUGER CHAMBERED GUN!!! 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

...
While this particular round, with its 9mm Luger .355" bullet and powder charge in it might have fired, I'm not taking the chance. The shorter case means higher pressure.
...

The shorter case means only the shorter case, not higher pressure, because of the same OAL, hence the same space in case under bullet.
I NEVER SAID TO SHOOT 9mm MAKAROV FROM LUGER CHAMBERED GUN!!! 

No the shorter case also means final taper crimp would be much less since his dies would be set for the longer 9mm Luger case. Loose neck tension could result in bullet set back and that can cause catastrophically high pressure.

...
What unnerved me with the Makarov is that it fit into the press just like a 9mm Luger, I sized it, primed it, charged it with powder, and seated and crimped a bullet into the case.
...

There is no reason not to shoot it too! Extractor will hold it enough to ignite. No difference, standard shot... 

Sure does sound like you are advocating for shooting the 9X18 in the Luger when you say the extractor will hold it.

[Sidecar2]

I'm just glad that I found out that there's a third 9mm case out there besides 9mm Luger and 9mm Kurtz (AKA .380 ACP).

Like I said, I only recently started shooting 9mm having bought my first 9mm last year and am learning its vagaries. I've been ignoring 9mm brass at the range for 35 years. Now I pick it up. I've got more than enough range 9mm, but it's always there on the ground, begging to be picked up. It's like leaving money on the ground with every round.

I knew there were 9mm Luger and .380 ACP.

Did not know of the 9mm M Makarov. (If it were in stock, it's $8.25/100 at https://round2brass.com/handgun-brass/9mm-makarov-once-fired-mixed-hs-brass.html)

Now I do.

[ReloaderFred]

Not to muddy the water, or to confuse you even further, but there is also the 9x21, 9x23 and 9x25 Dillon.  That doesn't include the 9mm Largo, and there are a few others in the mix.  You can stretch it a little further and include the 357 Sig, with actually uses a 9mm bullet.  And then there are the .38 ACP and the .38 Super +P, both of which are generally loaded with 9mm bullets these days..........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Sidecar2]

9x21, 9x23 and 9x25 Dillon. ... the 9mm Largo... the 357 Sig ... .38 ACP and the .38 Super +P,

It is interesting to learn of all the 9mm variants.

I see various necked-down cases all the time. Found two .38 Super cases among the hundreds of 9mm Luger cases just last week. They kind of stick out. I highly doubt they would fit my press set up for 9mm Luger. And the longer cases simply will not chamber in a 9mm Luger.

What worried me is that the 9mm Makarov made it all the way through my sorting, through my reloading press and into a chamber checker before I caught it. And it could have been chambered in one of my 9mm Luger pistols.

I'll keep a much sharper eye henceforth.