The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: DOC 1500 on May 07, 2019, 09:11:26 PM
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I have recently come across a situation in the family where my daughter may need to start carrying a pistol.
To start off with she is already a very good shot but there will be plenty a practice in the very near future.
she is only 5 ' 4 " and 100 pounds.
But fights like a bobcat when pushed to the Limit.
I'm thinking a 380 with Federal HST defense rounds , would be a good size for her. She has shot my po7 and done very well, but for her lifestyle I think a 380 would suit her much better.
I'm just starting to look at these pistols but haven't decided.
I would like to hear from those who have bought a pistol for their daughter, and I would like to hear from those who have extensive background of using a 380 and what would you trust your daughter's life with.
1) Safety and handling , LITTLE or NO chance of accidental discharge because of poor controls or otherwise.
2)Reliability , proven weapons.
3)Shootability, easy to operate and hold good trigger.
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I am no expert in any of this. Others will be along to help you.
But, for what it is worth, and in my probably worthless opinion, reliability needs to be the number 1 priority if she may need it to defend her life.
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Let her decide. Let her handle a variety of handguns to see what fits her hand. Let her fire a variety of calibers, again, whatever she?s comfortable with is what she will practice with. It doesn?t matter what caliber it is, it?s whatever she shoots well and is comfortable with. If she is comfortable with gun/caliber, she will practice with it. If she practices with it, she?ll become proficient, if she becomes proficient, she will have a much better chance of being effective if, God forbid, she ever has to use it in self defense.
After my wife tested innumerable pistols and calibers she settled on one "small" pistol and one "large" pistol. The terms small and large are relative to her, thus the quotes. BTW, my wife is about the size of your daughter, quite petite. She chose the Glock 43 for her every day carry small pistol. Mild recoil, supreme reliability, excellent aftermarket support and lightweight. In addition, absolute simplicity to operate. Her choice for a large pistol for TEOTWAWKI, is an HK VP9SK. Supreme ergonomics, light weight, great aftermarket support, reliable, numerous holster options, although she carries in her purse. BTW, there are quite a few companies who make ladies purses with concealed carry in mind. Coronado leather and Chameleon bags are two companies my wife uses for concealed carry purses if your daughter desires this route. Links below.
https://coronadoleather.com/collections/women
https://www.cameleonbags.com/collections/womens
Lastly, few holster makers compensate and adapt their holsters for the curvature of a woman's body. Kramer Leather does, and specifically makes an OWB holster with this in mind. Here is a link.
https://www.kramerleather.com/collections/womens-gun-holsters-1/products/womens-belt-scabbard-gun-holster
I have used Kramer Leather for decades, they are absolutely top shelf products. It is Kramer, as a matter of fact, who made my shoulder holster for my CZ-97BD. Absolutely excellent. Good luck.
GS
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Well, two pistols come to mind for me.
The Sig Sauer P238 is a great pistol that handles recoil. The negatives are that it is a single action only with an external safety, and it must be carried in Condition 1. Condition one requires more discipline and practice. The positives are that it is accurate, the slide is easy to operate and that it is lightweight. It is very reliable.
The Glock 42 is another excellent choice. It has a double action trigger. Recoil is still manageable and doesn?t hurt the hand. It?s very accurate with practice. There are a lot of aftermarket parts and magazines are cheap. It is slim and has a single stack magazine.
The Bersa Thunder is a heavier pistol but is much easier to shoot. The slide is easiest to operate. It does have an external safety. It works in SA/DA.
The Keltec P3AT and Ruger LCP are the lightest and thinnest but the recoil is most stout. Not my recommendation.
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My first thought is the S&W Shield EZ. Very easy to handle, accurate enough, excellent controls, and soft shooting. My sister-in-law has and carries one, she's 5' and might hit 100 pounds right after a big dinner. We tried several 380 pistols and ended up with the EZ. Second would be a Beretta 84 FS Cheetah, excellent ergonomics, very soft shooting, and reliable as you could ask.
My wife had an EAA Pavona 380 for a couple of years, my daughter tried it and liked it. Hannah passed her Texas CHL class with the Pavona, she now carries a S&W Shield in 9mm.
I would avoid a PPK they tend to be fussy and hard to load. Also on the avoid list are Kahr 380s, they are hard for most women to cycle and not comfortable to shoot. Bursa 380s are good, but not great pistols, none of the women in my life disliked them, they all seemed to find something that worked better for them.
I think MuzzleBlastMD means a Ruger LCP, those are snappy little beasts, the LCP II is much better.
A suggestion, give a Ruger LCR in 327 Federal a try. Loaded with 32 H&R mag ammo it's an excellent carry gun. My wife and niece both have them and keep them loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 32 H&R Magnum ammo. Practice 32 S&W Long wad-cutter ammo is generally super accurate and fun to shoot. We went through several 380 pistols and small revolvers before the wife and niece settled on the 327 LCR. My wife is 5'6" and the niece is 5'4".
My daughter-in-law tried a bunch of revolvers and pistols, she carries a 3 inch S&W 686+ I gave her. She's 5'11" and can easily conceal a 3 inch K or L frame.
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As stated already go with what fits her, an odd ball but excellent option would be the Colt 1903 Hammerless. If she is right handed the controls work easily. It's a bit larger than the current fashion but still very flat and concealable. The limiting factor would probably be the sights, half moon front and smaller notch rear. On the plus side Browning ergonomics.
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Thanks for pointing that out. I corrected it from the LCR (revolver) to LCP (380 ACP Pistol).
I love revolvers and they?re easy to operate but many people struggle with double action triggers.
The Ruger LCR and Kimber K6S have the lightest of the double action triggers.
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The first thing to consider is how she will carry. Being that petite isn?t going to leave a lot of options unless she is carrying off body which isn?t the best idea. The best bet is to get her into a local shop with lots of options for her to handle, preferably one with a range and lots of rentals for her to try. I would not try to pigeon hole her into a specific style or caliber. The best option is the one she is most comfortable with.
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I would echo others that, while you can be helpful in sourcing a wide number of options and ideas for her, and talk about those options and ideas with her very seriously, she ought to be the one making a decision about what might be suitable for her.
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Hiya and thx for the thread. See many operators,chimed in, hearing your families unfortunate need to arm her has arrived. The cz 83 discontinued in 2012 I vote for a consideration, based on its being reliable and carry friendly, mine was a backup that lived in a fanny pack holster. Heres hoping she never has to engage targets as its a very traumatic post story even if she survives a cardinal event without physical injury. Its simply the world we live in with no change in sight. Be well.
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a vz82 in 9mm Mak or a CZ83 in .380 is a good shooter. Both are accurate and reliable - they are a lot more enjoyable for practice than the micro-.380s.
LCP is a beast, but it is a very reliable beast (mine has eaten every type of .380 I've fed to lil Elsie Pea).
The centerfire LCR models have excellent triggers for a DAO revolver (the rimfire versions are a heavier pull). The .38 Special is also an option (along with the .327 Fed mentioned above).
Shield EZ has a good reputation from the people I know who've tried them, but I haven't had a chance yet.
She will have to try out the available options and decide which is best for her.
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My first thought is the S&W Shield EZ. Very easy to handle, accurate enough, excellent controls, and soft shooting. My sister-in-law has and carries one, she's 5' and might hit 100 pounds right after a big dinner. We tried several 380 pistols and ended up with the EZ. Second would be a Beretta 84 FS Cheetah, excellent ergonomics, very soft shooting, and reliable as you could ask.
I think MuzzleBlastMD means a Ruger LCP, those are snappy little beasts, the LCP II is much better.
What he said!
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Smaller guns are harder to shoot and most 380 to me are way more difficult to handle than single stack 9 's . Why 380 ? what advantage does it offer ? I avoided the 380 and went straight to 9 mm . Can your daughter rack a slide ? How small does it have to be ? What is she comfortable with . I helped a fellow female shooter at the range her husband bought her a small lcp 380 could hardly shoot it . She also had a shield she could not rack the slide . Rent some pistols find out what works .
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I would take her out to some gun shops and let her handle as many a she desires that way she can pick a pistol she is comfortable with,herself.
That said I have good experience with the Sig P238,the Beretta 84FS,and 1911 style .380's like the Browning.
Stay far and away from the Walther PP,PPK,PPK/S models. They are picky and unreliable in any form.
The new Fort Smith made PPK/S is no exception. My recently purchased example is making it's 3rd trip back to the mothership with reliability issues.
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As has been mentioned, getting to a range where there are several options to try out would be a wise start. Girls can be picky? Beyond that be certain which ever you go with gets broken in and is field tested thoroughly. These little pistols (all brands) seem to be more prone to reliability issues.
To answer your question more directly, if she's not going to get into shooting as a hobby. I'd go with the G42, it's as simple as it gets.
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Can't offer a suggestion... we purchased a wheel gun for the Misses (Ruger SP101 in .38spl).
Was her call and what she was most comfortable with. No safety to mess with, no tap/rack drills. Simply point and shoot.
YMMV
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I would recommend the Shield EZ or a Colt Mustang with the polymer frame which is softer shooting than the Sig P238. Give her a variety of choices and let her decide.
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I?ll also mention Colt Mustang, Sig P238 and add Kimber Micro. All the same single action design with varying amounts of selections in ?pretty?. These are ideal purse carry guns in that SA can be safe hammer down. Training should include pulling the hammer back. Much reduced AD possibilities carrying this way. For carrying on the body, they are all great pocket guns, ankle guns or IWB/OWB. What they aren?t is draw and fire. You either have to train to take off safe carrying hammer back, or train to pull the hammer 1st. These guns are all very accurate for their size and mid-range as to difficulty to rack.
I carry the Micro Raptor at work in a sticky holster condition 1.
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I wish you luck in your quest for a CCW for your daughter, but what happens if she doesn't like the any of the guns mentioned in the abve posts? It's not an easy process, but the more guns she gets to handle, the better.
From your description she sounds like a tiny person, which is going to limit the type of gun she can comfortably carry, and is she going to want to CCW all the time? You need to remember that she is a young person, with a young person's life style, and they are not necessarily conducive to CCW.
Best of luck in your search.
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My daughter turns 21 this Saturday and has her CWP class the following weekend. She's been shooting since she could hold a gun, so the actual shooting side is not a problem. We've been shooting lots of pistols lately so she can get a feel for what she wants to carry. One problem is she hasn't decided on how she'll carry. I went through the same thing with her mother. Notice they're both female. Just give advise (your male, so your wrong) and let them discover for themselves.
By the way, my wife carries a Ruger LCR (great revolver!) in one of many made for conceal carry purses.... many!
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Are you saying your daughter is 100# because that infers she will not handle much recoil or are you saying it because it infers there will be very little place on her body for her to hide it? Will she be carrying it on her body or in a purse or how will it conceal?
It makes a difference in how I would answer the question.
I personally like the Shield EZ That is a great .380 handgun. EZ to manipulate and a pretty true shooter.
My 140# 82 year old neighbor dude who just got one and he was this close to giving up shooting and carrying because he could rack the slide any more and revolvers hurt his hands when he shot them.
Now he is a happy old dude, God bless his soul!!!
He tried a few guns and this one made him smile so now he has one.
RCG
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Raised 2 daughters , both were comfortable around guns. One moved to PA and maintains a gun-free household, the other moved to NC and won't leave home without one. When the NC daughter asked for advice on what to carry, I asked what color ink should I write the check with ?
Although she is not petite, and is fond of shooting 40 S&W, she chose a Thunder 380 for CC. (an easy check for Dad to write).
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Shield EZ is a good recommendation and a fine .380. Friend got one for his wife. Easy to rack and use. I have a Sig P238 but its like carrying a small 1911 and has the same manual of arms.
Let me say I have shot a lot of small 380's and the lightweight ones are (to me) uncomfortable to shoot and practice with. I'm talking about the polymer types such as the Ruger LCP 380, The Keltec 380, etc. They work well for their intended use and are easier to carry, but there is a trade off in accuracy and comfort.
For what's it worth, if she wants to "carry" all the time, then I don't know if you are familiar with a KelTec P32 (32acp). That thing is small, easy to shoot, easy to control, comfortable to carry every day and all the time, safe, although just a bit lower on power. Add a laser to it and it makes a heck of a carry pistol. Women I work with tend to like them. Did not mean to change the subject or intend to hijack the post.
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I second what steerclr said about the KelTec 32 cal. Even though people tend to look down their noses at the 32 caliber these days, it is still an adequate self defense cartridge and certainly one worth considering if the .380 is too uncomfortable to shoot.
There are only a couple 32 caliber pistols worth considering, the aforementioned KelTec, and the Beretta Tomcat. The Tomcat is thicker than the KelTec and may not be as easy to conceal but it has the Beretta quality and the pop-up barrel which makes for easy unloading.
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After much shopping and shooting my wife(also petite w/little hands), chose a G43 for carry. Her choice for HD is a P07. That said, the EZ 380 is a nice handling little pistol. I'd look awful hard at one of those w/o thumb safety. Very easy to rack the slide- something my wife still has to work at when she shoots.
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My daughter turns 21 this Saturday and has her CWP class the following weekend. She's been shooting since she could hold a gun, so the actual shooting side is not a problem. We've been shooting lots of pistols lately so she can get a feel for what she wants to carry. One problem is she hasn't decided on how she'll carry. I went through the same thing with her mother. Notice they're both female. Just give advise (your male, so your wrong) and let them discover for themselves.
By the way, my wife carries a Ruger LCR (great revolver!) in one of many made for conceal carry purses.... many!
My wife carries her LCR in a Gun Toten Mama's carry purse at least 70% of the time. She has 3 different models.
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After much shopping and shooting my wife(also petite w/little hands), chose a G43 for carry. Her choice for HD is a P07. That said, the EZ 380 is a nice handling little pistol. I'd look awful hard at one of those w/o thumb safety. Very easy to rack the slide- something my wife still has to work at when she shoots.
A G43 and a P07 - I'd say that's a great combo and probably all anyone would ever need.
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Magazines. How easy to get? How much do they cost? How many rounds do they hold?
Repair parts and factory support for any issues you may not be able to fix yourself.
Holster type/availability?
Reliability is #1. How well she can shoot it is #2. How pretty it is shouldn't even be on the list of considerations.
The Shield .380 EZ has a couple models. One with ambidextrous thumb safeties and one without those. Either model still has the safety in the way the bottom of the trigger hinges (like the other M&P models) and the EZ also has a grip safety.
My 80 year old mother has no trouble loading, unloading, racking the slide or shooting it.
It's not the most accurate pistol I've shot but it can keep those little hollow points in the black at 8 or 10 yds.
The EZ looks like a striker fired pistol but it isn't. It's a concealed hammer pistol.
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1. Go to your LGS that has the largest selection of .380s and let her handle as many as she'd like. Hopefully, she will have a few "favorites" after the visit.
2. Call your local range and see if they have her "favorites" for rent.
3. Go shopping :D
In addition to the CZ83 that has been recommended earlier, I want to throw the SIG P230/232 in the mix. Both are reliable and accurate. Since both are all-steel, they can do serious damages in skilled hands, with or without ammos.
(https://www.remtek.com/arms/sig/model/230/230.gif)
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As others have stated, the most important thing is to get the the one that fits her well and she is most comfortable with. My petite wife originally decided on a .38 revolver to carry, then decided she didn't like the weight of it or the recoil.
After trying out many, many varieties of pistols over several months, she settled on the Walther PK380. It's light, dependable, accurate, mild recoil and one of the easiest slides to rack, by far. Heck, I even enjoy shooting it!
Three of her friends now have one,
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Interesting how many guys still recommend steel framed blowback .380's for females. Just what a girl wants, heavy for size with snappy recoil. Small revolvers are unpleasant to shoot as well, 5 rounds was all it took for my wife to say no way. The only way a snubby works is if she's never going to practice/train with it.
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My wife loves to shoot my Beretta Pico. I like it because carry it.
Steve
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Hey gang, the response to my thread is almost overwhelming and I certainly do appreciate all the comments and suggestions
Keep it up this is good stuff !!! 8)
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Interesting how many guys still recommend steel framed blowback .380's for females. Just what a girl wants, heavy for size with snappy recoil. Small revolvers are unpleasant to shoot as well, 5 rounds was all it took for my wife to say no way. The only way a snubby works is if she's never going to practice/train with it.
My wife choose the LCR after much shooting. She likes the simple manual of arms of a revolver, and the grip and polymer rear frame do well to lessen recoil. The trigger is nice too. It's not a S&W J frame. I keep it loaded with 125 grain Hornady standard pressure rounds and recoil isn't bad. At 15 yards she can pick a fly off a ants a&&.
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Interesting how many guys still recommend steel framed blowback .380's for females. Just what a girl wants, heavy for size with snappy recoil. Small revolvers are unpleasant to shoot as well, 5 rounds was all it took for my wife to say no way. The only way a snubby works is if she's never going to practice/train with it.
That's complete nonsense. My wife and niece both carry Ruger LCRs in 327 Federal. They both shoot and average of 200 practice rounds a month. A mix of 32Long and 32 H&R Mag. They both carry 32 H&R Mag ammo. The S&W EZ is a modified Browning locking action, very soft recoil.
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I have a used S&W PPK that has ran perfectly through 1000 rounds or better. It goes bang without fail, 100% of the time. The Bersa has good reviews, especially for the money, but I have no experience with one. The Springfield 911 is same as the Sig, but actually runs, even takes the same mags. I have 300 rounds through one without a failure. There is always the CZ 83, but my example isn't reliable enough yet to recommend. What fits her best and goes bang every time will be more up to her than us IMHE.
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So it is settled then........ revolvers are NOT good for defensive carry. Unsure why it took me this long to learn this.
Truly hope the little lady doesn't find out, she might instead prefer to pack pepper spray or a whistle.
eye roll
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Sir, the reason I started this thread was not to hear arguments about why you think someone else's choices is wrong. Or why you think your pistol is better than theirs.
it was started to gain information from people's experience with specific pistols which would help me and making an informed decision as to which pistols to start looking at.
You can start your own thread as to why your pistol is better than theirs or theirs is better than yours .thank you Doc .op
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If you?re gonna go .380, do it up right?-
Just kidding,,,, kinda.
I like the cartridge and load for it and have tried to find a pistol that fits me. My first was an inherited Walther, then an AMT backup then I went through a few others I don?t want to bash.
Hands down the most reliable and shootable of them was a Bersa Thunder. Ya, its big & heavy for a .380, but worked for my family and was reliable enough I was happy with it.
Frankly, the old Browning fits me, and I can shoot it pretty well. That matters, because I practice with it a lot because it is fun to shoot. The AMT and little Rugers are not fun and sit in the safe.
But... that is totally an individual choice (and I wouldn?t advocate for the 1910, its just really fun for me), so I?m gonna jump on the bandwagon and say shoot as many as you two can until she gets that ?ah-ha? moment.
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I?ve helped more than a few women gain experience to pick their preferences. What they like about the Bersa Thunder is the key lock. Though the Thunder CC or Combat I think is better for this conversation. The regular Thunder is a bit large for their tastes most of the time. Mine is different in that I put on a Firestorm slide to get the Glock style bucket sights and options for night sights.
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I am boiling down the list, but will make sure that my daughter handles every one of them so she can decide..
Glock 42 - 43
Bersa Thunder *
S&W Shield EZ *
Sig P238 SAS
Kel-Tec p3at **
I would like to lean her more toward a double action.
But again she makes the final decision as to what fits her what feels comfortable and also what she can shoot well.
Something quick easy to operate draw and shoot.
Please keep up the suggestions this is a good thread.
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The 42 and 43 are good guns.
My wife loves her EZ.
My daughter actually likes the Ruger Security compact. We are going to try it to see if it will last long term. It uses 10 round mags in a fairly small platform, but will also accept the fullsize Ruger mags.
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I am boiling down the list, but will make sure that my daughter handles every one of them so she can decide..
Glock 42 - 43
Bersa Thunder *
S&W Shield EZ *
Sig P238 SAS
Kel-Tec p3at **
I would like to lean her more toward a double action.
But again she makes the final decision as to what fits her what feels comfortable and also what she can shoot well.
Something quick easy to operate draw and shoot.
Please keep up the suggestions this is a good thread.
Seriously,take her out and let her handle as many guns as she cares to.She may find she has no interest at all in a mouse gun/mini compact. She may find a larger gun like the P-07 or PCR is more to her liking.
My current favorite single stack is my Sig P225-A1. DA/SA just like a CZ and they are a bit pricey but man it's a comfortable gun to carry,great fit in the hand and supremely accurate.
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My current favorite single stack is my Sig P225-A1. DA/SA just like a CZ and they are a bit pricey but man it's a comfortable gun to carry,great fit in the hand and supremely accurate.
Nice! I have one of the Swiss P225 with the heel release, and it is great for carry! That mag never pops out unintentionally no matter how much it gets squeezed or bumped.
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I put a couple rounds through a buddy's P3AT a couple years ago. Back to back with a g42, it was amazing how harsh the recoil felt with the keltec. That's definitely in the shoot before you buy category. My buddy said the only reason he still had it was that he'd feel guilty selling it to somebody
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I put a couple rounds through a buddy's P3AT a couple years ago. Back to back with a g42, it was amazing how harsh the recoil felt with the keltec. That's definitely in the shoot before you buy category. My buddy said the only reason he still had it was that he'd feel guilty selling it to somebody
There's now 3 LCP's in the house, pretty much a copy of the Kel Tec P3-AT. Yes, not the easiest thing to shoot, but if you can shoot them well they make great pocket pistols. I have an original and a LCP II, my Son a 10th anniversary model. My daughter (5'8" 130lb's) has shot them, but doesn't care for them. She'll relax her grip and they will stovepipe jam. She's mentioned the LCP II is easier to shoot and less snappy with its bigger grip.
I'd like to find a range that can rent a Glock 42 and 43, and have her shoot them back to back. She shoots my Glock 26 very well.
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Even the old LCP's are considerably nicer than the Keltec.
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A couple of other options not yet mentioned - how about a Sig 290RS? I?ve only had trigger time on the 9mm, but the recoil was very manageable. I am not a big fan of SC sized pistols, but this is not for me. DA trigger stroke with re-Strike capability. Generally found at a good price point. And no love for Kahr?s? They deserve a mention due to the nice triggers and grip ergos - especially for your tyyical female sized hand.
No disrespect intended to anyone, but recommending a SA 1911 style pistol utilizing a condition 1 carry is a head scratcher for me. Especially when it sounds like it is probably not likely to be carried IWB or OWB, but maybe in a purse or pack or....it just sreams ND
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I have a Bersa Thunder 380 as well as a Sig 365.
The Bersa is blowback, and even though it is a little heavy, the recoil is stout because of the blowback operation. I can shoot it fine, but me wife does not like it. Follow up shots are slower. It is quite compact however, but not nearly as compact is the 365. I know you said 380, but hear me out. I am only comparing the Bersa to the Sig here.
Here are some of the my takeaways for CC use:
Bersa specs:
500g without mag, 168mm long
Single stack 380
Rear sight adjustable with screwdriver, with bright dots
SA/DA hammer with double strike and safety
You can buy wood grips for it, or laser grips
P365 specs:
465g without mag, 146mm long
Double stack 9mm
Tritium sights standard
Consistent trigger pull striker action
You can buy a laser or light for it
Pros for each gun (rather than listing pros/cons) :
P365 has a better finish and is less likely to rust
P365 is lighter and about 1" shorter than the Bersa, about the same height
P365 is more narrow due to lack of safety control
P365 you can use the mag release without shifting your grip (Bersa is 1cm away from thumb)
P365 is less expensive to train with
P365 is much easier to field strip
P365 you can buy a threaded barrel
P365 is much less likely to snag on something when being removed from a purse
P365 probably has a better warranty (I got my Bersa used, no warranty)
P365 holds a few more rounds even though it is smaller (I short the mag to keep the weight down)
P365 is easier to rack the slide because of more grip surface and there is no slide mounted safety digging into your hand
P365 is much easier to load a mag under stress due to the shape and size of the mag and magwell
Recoil is similar between both guns, maybe less on the P365
Both guns offer extended and flush mags
Both guns are accurate and equally reliable with good ammo
Bersa has a safety (if that is what you want) with decocker
Bersa sights I would say are better during daylight or in a well lit area (but not direct sunlight)
Bersa has a slightly more comfortable grip for me, but less comfortable recoil (blowback + bore axis)
Bersa mag disconnect can be easily removed
Bersa has a trigger lock (you could also call this a con)
Bersa has nickel and gold finish controls that can be purchased
Bersa design is more simple and easier to fix yourself
Bersa parts are less expensive
Bersa is easier to rack the slide if you pull the hammer first, but the safety still digs
Bersa slide release is larger and much easier to drop the slide
and the big one..
Bersa is half the cost of a P365... but if you do take it to the range often, it costs more to shoot.
After 1800 rounds the 365 is less expensive to own, and if you are considering other guns in 9mm, you can stick to a single caliber. 9mm is also obviously more terminally effective than 380, especially through heavy clothing.
If I used a purse, the Bersa has a large beavertail and a hammer which can snag. If I carry on person, the Bersa is longer and fatter and heavier and more likely to rust if you get sweat on it. Sig wins for both these scenarios. They do make a CC version of the Bersa Thunder, but it is even less comfortable to hold and shoot.
All that being said, if neither of those are a concern, both my wife and I prefer something like the P07, it is easier to grip, holds more rounds, cheaper mags, better trigger, real rail, easier to rack the slide, less recoil, more fun to shoot.
Other guns... I did NOT enjoy shooting the Glock in 380, the Walther PK380 is not even close to reliable, I think I shot a Shield and did not like that either, and those are the only other 380 I have shot in recent memory.
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Hemi , thanks for those reviews an experienced opinions.
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I?m sure I?m preaching to the choir, but make sure you are comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
When trying out different models, use the same ammo across them. I would recommend using both what is planned for training as well as for carry.
I often see people try out soft ammo in one gun and hot ammo in another and then attribute the difference to the gun itself.
That can be hard with .380. Our local range requires you to use their ammo in their rentals. They only have cheap powder puff 9mm and only have expensive high pressure SD .380 auto. Even a lightweight, subcompact 9 will feel nice in that comparison.
Anyway, have fun looking and good luck!
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at the gun shop I go to that has a range, they have quite a few pistols to select from to rent and there is only a handful of Select Factory ammo that they don't allow to be shot and that includes handloads. Other than that any Factory load you want to bring is fine with them.
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hey guys ask your wives what's concealed carry purses they like and if you have a link that would be good. My daughter is a real girly girl and loves Style.
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Gun Tote'n Mamas, she-who-must-be-obeyed has several. There's about 80 styles and way too many colors.
https://www.gtmoriginal.com/
Susan's favorite is this model in tan: https://www.gtmoriginal.com/products/tooled-american-cowhide-black?variant=28336642687063
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Gun Tote'n Mamas, she-who-must-be-obeyed has several. There's about 80 styles and way too many colors.
https://www.gtmoriginal.com/
Susan's favorite is this model in tan: https://www.gtmoriginal.com/products/tooled-american-cowhide-black?variant=28336642687063
Thanks Ron I appreciate the info, I love the first two sentences.
I always say, If mama ain't happy ain't nobody happy.
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My wife is a "purse girl". I've shown her quite a few carry purses. The nicest reply I've gotten was "eew, no". Good luck. ;D
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I bought a crossbreed purse holder carry system , kydex holster with velcro attaches to a L shaped holder that slips into the purse . The kydex was designed for my particular pistol and they probably carry all the most popular brands . It can go from purse to purse . :)
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If the gun goes ?bang? while you are fishing around for it in a purse, that is a ND, not an AD. That?s on you, not the gun.
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I bought a crossbreed purse holder carry system , kydex holster with velcro attaches to a L shaped holder that slips into the purse . The kydex was designed for my particular pistol and they probably carry all the most popular brands . It can go from purse to purse . :)
Looks very interesting I'll have to look more into it.
May be a good viable option for my daughter who is the fashionista of the family.
I just checked out the website on that crossbreed looks like the most viable option and best way to carry in a purse from my view. Always in the same place and secure, less chance of ND.
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moderator I think it would be a fabulous idea to make this a sticky since there is a section for holsters how about a section for women's holsters or purse holsters.
Maybe you could call the sticky carry options for women.
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Glock 43.
I purchased my wife a Ruger LCP and then a S&W bodyguard in .380 because I fell into the "women need small uber compact .380 because recoil blah blah" trap. Throw that out the window now.
My wife is a petite 5'2" 110lbs and CCW the Glock 43 daily, shoots it lights out, and the others collect dust.
Reliability, Slim, and 9mm.
The Glock 43 OEM trigger is better than the latter and a better firearm all around.
Make sure you use the correct ammo in it as not all 9mm defense ammo are designed for subcompact barrel length. Federal HST 147g HP.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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Glock 43.
I purchased my wife a Ruger LCP and then a S&W bodyguard in .380 because I fell into the "women need small uber compact .380 because recoil blah blah" trap. Throw that out the window now.
My wife is a petite 5'2" 110lbs and CCW the Glock 43 daily, shoots it lights out, and the others collect dust.
Reliability, Slim, and 9mm.
The Glock 43 OEM trigger is better than the latter and a better firearm all around.
Make sure you use the correct ammo in it as not all 9mm defense ammo are designed for subcompact barrel length. Federal HST 147g HP.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I could not agree more in fact saw an example of the very thing at my local range . Small tiny guns are very difficult to shoot and hit anything !!! My Shield has a trigger safety so fumbling around in my purse for a ND is unlikely . Crossbreed holster is kydex just like a IWB carry .
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Glock 43.
I purchased my wife a Ruger LCP and then a S&W bodyguard in .380 because I fell into the "women need small uber compact .380 because recoil blah blah" trap. Throw that out the window now.
My wife is a petite 5'2" 110lbs and CCW the Glock 43 daily, shoots it lights out, and the others collect dust.
Reliability, Slim, and 9mm.
The Glock 43 OEM trigger is better than the latter and a better firearm all around.
Make sure you use the correct ammo in it as not all 9mm defense ammo are designed for subcompact barrel length. Federal HST 147g HP.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I could not agree more in fact saw an example of the very thing at my local range . Small tiny guns are very difficult to shoot and hit anything !!! My Shield has a trigger safety so fumbling around in my purse for a ND is unlikely . Crossbreed holster is kydex just like a IWB carry .
Do you like the crossbreed panel with the holster attached that goes in your purse as well?
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I am not big on 380and do not own one currently. From what I have seen I would consider the M&P Shield 380EZ. If she needs something tiny, and will train on shooting it, the RUger LCP 2.
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I bought the whole system (small ) and it works well and the velcro holds up . You can reposition the holster where you want as it is velcro on velcro . Anyways so far it has worked for me .
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I bought the whole system (small ) and it works well and the velcro holds up . You can reposition the holster where you want as it is velcro on velcro . Anyways so far it has worked for me .
thanks for reply.sounds like a winner.
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I bought a .380 EZ awhile back. It's okay. Not super excited about the groups with the FMJ or the hollow points. I suppose, if I keep buying/trying store bought ammo, or find a nice reloads recipe for it then it might shoot better.
A couple weeks back I bought my wife a Performance Center Shield in 9MM. The little bugger shoots rings around the .380 EZ.
If I were to buy another small plastic framed carry gun it would be a Performance Center Shield 9MM.
I paid the same price for both. $400 for the Shield EZ at a local gun store and $400 for the Shield 9MM Performance Center (with night sights) from Cabela's (on sale).
And, the 9MM ammo is cheaper and has a larger selection of bullet weights/types.
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I have recently come across a situation in the family where my daughter may need to start carrying a pistol.
To start off with she is already a very good shot but there will be plenty a practice in the very near future.
she is only 5 ' 4 " and 100 pounds.
But fights like a bobcat when pushed to the Limit.
I'm thinking a 380 with Federal HST defense rounds , would be a good size for her. She has shot my po7 and done very well, but for her lifestyle I think a 380 would suit her much better.
I'm just starting to look at these pistols but haven't decided.
I would like to hear from those who have bought a pistol for their daughter, and I would like to hear from those who have extensive background of using a 380 and what would you trust your daughter's life with.
1) Safety and handling , LITTLE or NO chance of accidental discharge because of poor controls or otherwise.
2)Reliability , proven weapons.
3)Shootability, easy to operate and hold good trigger.
Based upon your #1 criteria I'm thinking a Glock anything is out for a woman to carry in her purse, unless it was a dedicated CCW purse. Pistols mingled with all the other stuff that reside in a woman's purse is only a recipe for an ND disaster. A dedicated CCW purse with a holster that covers the trigger would be best if going the Glock route.
A DA/SA pistol of caliber and size that fits your daughter is probably the best bet. One poster on here suggested that a glock 42 is double action.....it is NOT DA. A little longer learning curve than a SA only pistol but safer.
Just my 2 cents, others may not agree.
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I have a used S&W PPK that has ran perfectly through 1000 rounds or better. It goes bang without fail, 100% of the time. The Bersa has good reviews, especially for the money, but I have no experience with one. The Springfield 911 is same as the Sig, but actually runs, even takes the same mags. I have 300 rounds through one without a failure. There is always the CZ 83, but my example isn't reliable enough yet to recommend. What fits her best and goes bang every time will be more up to her than us IMHE.
I have a Bersa Thunder 380...it is excellent. It has a better DA trigger than the Walther PPK, and holds 7+1 rounds with decocker. Great SA, too. Very little recoil with ordinary range ammo. And as you said, the price is right. The one ding I give it is the small sights with won't work well with my old eyes. Still waiting on someone to come out with fiber optic sights to fit it. Springfields, Kimbers, Sigs, etc. Big $.
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Glock 43.
I purchased my wife a Ruger LCP and then a S&W bodyguard in .380 because I fell into the "women need small uber compact .380 because recoil blah blah" trap. Throw that out the window now.
My wife is a petite 5'2" 110lbs and CCW the Glock 43 daily, shoots it lights out, and the others collect dust.
Reliability, Slim, and 9mm.
The Glock 43 OEM trigger is better than the latter and a better firearm all around.
Make sure you use the correct ammo in it as not all 9mm defense ammo are designed for subcompact barrel length. Federal HST 147g HP.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
+1
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I appreciate everybody's response to this thread. at this point my daughter has changed her mind for whatever reason it's her decision not to carry.
Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions. DOC
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Keep working on it. It took me 6 years for me to convince my lady to get her CCW. Learning is good!
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I know this discussion is on hold for a bit, but thought I’d share a new to me BDA. These were pretty cheap as police trade ins a while back, and I missed the boat. But finally picked one up and have really enjoyed shooting it.
It handled and shoots like a full sized 9, but carries much nicer. Shoots fine out at 25 yards, but much faster follow up shots at closer ranges.
Anyways, it is the smoothest shooting and most reliable 380 I’ve used so far.