The Original CZ Forum

GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: Dan_69GTX on January 20, 2020, 07:39:47 AM

Title: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 20, 2020, 07:39:47 AM
So, sorting range brass yesterday and I got to thinking - what other things should I be looking for when sorting brass cases to decide if it is scrap?

Not talking about missing primer, bulges, cracks, etc - talking about design flaws - such as the stepped 9mm junk or berdan primers

Before someone states about avoiding steel and aluminum, that would already been taken care of since I'm asking about brass cases.   ;)
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: anonymouscuban on January 20, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
Brass with crimped primers. Unless your press can handle them.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200120/7253c7ca72750e9cf2f0ec5470084922.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: steel on January 20, 2020, 07:52:29 PM
Toss any brass with the head stamp AMERC.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: eastman on January 20, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
Toss any brass with the head stamp AMERC.

what is the issue with these?
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: steel on January 20, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
I run all my 9MM reloads through a Dillon case gauge before using them in practice or competition.  I have never been able to get the 9MM brass with this head stamp to gauge consistently.  Way too many rejects.  I got to the point where I sort by head stamp and cull all the AMERC brass and stepped cases.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: George16 on January 20, 2020, 10:01:27 PM
Xtreme makes brass coated steel cases. It looks like regular brass cases but it’s actually steel. The only way to find out is by running a magnet through your brass pile to pick them out.

Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 21, 2020, 07:37:22 AM
Xtreme makes brass coated steel cases. It looks like regular brass cases but it’s actually steel. The only way to find out is by running a magnet through your brass pile to pick them out.

True - I do that (run a magnet through) as I'm sorting cases and have a magnet on the tube from the case feeder.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 21, 2020, 07:37:50 AM
Brass with crimped primers. Unless your press can handle them.


Nice pic - thanks!
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 21, 2020, 07:39:07 AM
Toss any brass with the head stamp AMERC.

Good to know - I don't know if I've ever run across this brass.  What caliber does this head stamp come in?
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Wobbly on January 21, 2020, 05:20:11 PM
Stepped cases...

(https://i.imgur.com/b3PmMxR.jpg)
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Tok36 on January 21, 2020, 06:07:33 PM
^^ Those look allot like the cases that i got from Freedom Munitions a few years back.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: eastman on January 21, 2020, 09:14:53 PM
I run all my 9MM reloads through a Dillon case gauge before using them in practice or competition.  I have never been able to get the 9MM brass with this head stamp to gauge consistently.  Way too many rejects.  I got to the point where I sort by head stamp and cull all the AMERC brass and stepped cases.

thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 22, 2020, 08:26:21 AM
So other than stepped cases as I mentioned in my first post the only other brass case to be wary of is the one with "AMERC" headstamp.  Doing a google search it appears others have issues with the "AMERC" cases as well.

Thanks to all who responded.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Wobbly on January 22, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Maybe another warning that not all steel cases are Russian green with Berdan primers.

Here's some "brass" S&B cases my magnet picked up...

(https://i.imgur.com/EUlgQax.jpg)


Obviously they are brass plated steel, but without a magnet you'd never know. In my ignorance I had already dry tumbled them twice and reloaded these once !! Now a magnet is fitted to my case feeder so that each case has to pass near it to get into the loading que. Since then a third case has appeared.

The more devious they get, the smarter we need to be.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 22, 2020, 01:54:27 PM
Wobbly,  You should sell those magnets at matches - being able to pick up brass cases and leave the dirt behind would net you a lot of $$$.  When it picks up the obvious steel cases - just tell them it is a design flaw in the magnet and it will be fixed in version 2.0!   ::)
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Tok36 on January 22, 2020, 04:17:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EUlgQax.jpg)


It looks like Wobbly payed a human hand model to assist him with this picture so that he could avoid showing us his robot hands. Wobbly, on behalf of the Original CZ Forums we except that you are a reloading robot. There is no sense in trying to hide it.  ;D
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: CzechnoWizard on January 22, 2020, 09:48:57 PM
To the list, my adds:

9mm Winchester LE or "NATO, loads. Great brass but they seem to have crimped primers. They can be deprimed but then require chamfering and reaming the primer pocket before a new primer will go in. It's just too much work when perfectly good 9mm brass is going unwanted every day on ranges throughout this land.

Federal .45acp.  Loaded with small primers, these are the devil when they intermix with your regular large primer .45 brass.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 23, 2020, 07:19:48 AM
I have yet to run across brass plated steel cases in anything besides 9mm.  Has anyone else found something besides 9mm brass plated steel cases?

Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: eastman on January 24, 2020, 10:18:08 PM
I have yet to run across brass plated steel cases in anything besides 9mm.  Has anyone else found something besides 9mm brass plated steel cases?

Barnaul has a line of brass plated steel case ammunition (Golden Bear).
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Wobbly on January 25, 2020, 01:30:38 AM
Wobbly, on behalf of the Original CZ Forums we except that you are a reloading robot.


My reloading robot, caught in the act....

(https://i.imgur.com/zc1qByb.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: daved20319 on January 26, 2020, 11:19:31 AM
Federal isn't the only ones loading SPP in .45 ACP, Blazer Brass and Speer Lawman both use small primers.  Not an issue for me, I load with a single stage press, and prime with a hand tool, just means an extra step when sorting.

Thanks for the heads up on the brass plated steel, guys, guess it's a good thing I haven't loaded much 9mm, but I'll definitely be running a magnet through all my 9mm brass  ::).  Later. 
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: spt_1955 on January 26, 2020, 11:28:17 PM
I think you will need to draw your own conclusions based on what your reloading experience is.  My press and dies do well with Winchester, Federal, Blazer, and Speer, Hornady, and S&B.   I have uniformly bad experiences sizing Aquila and Remington. 
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 27, 2020, 07:51:49 AM
I think you will need to draw your own conclusions based on what your reloading experience is.  My press and dies do well with Winchester, Federal, Blazer, and Speer, Hornady, and S&B.   I have uniformly bad experiences sizing Aquila and Remington.

Hmmmm I think you misunderstood my question.  So I'll expound a bit - "BAD" meaning dangerous to use:
    - (stepped cases tend to split),
    - brass coated steel - same as loading steel cases - not good.
    - "Glocked" 40 - might not fully seat in chamber.
    -

Yea, there are cases that don't work for certain loads such as can't seat a 147 9mm deep enough due to case wall thickness, but that doesn't make them unusable for other loads.

I'm looking for reasons to NEVER use a case due to it being dangerous - the most obvious example is the stepped case.

I've got very little experience outside of 9mm which is why I asked.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: jwc007 on January 27, 2020, 09:07:00 PM
  I have uniformly bad experiences sizing Aquila and Remington.

Another vote here  for Aquila being bad news, the bases simply won't resize.  Perfecta Brass are Brass coated Steel Cases and should be avoided at all costs.

I have some older Remington brass that has been perfectly fine. Can't speak to current production Remington brass, as I've not gotten my hands on any in the last 5 years.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Duke Nukem on January 28, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
I don't know what this is, I picked it up at the range, but it's plated steel with Berdan primer:

(https://i.imgur.com/f3M965Em.jpg)
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Wobbly on January 28, 2020, 04:55:49 PM
I don't know what this is, I picked it up at the range, but it's plated steel with Berdan primer:


It's a steel 9mm case with a Berdan primer.   O0



I thought at first glance it was one of the new Browning cases with the elk...

(https://i.imgur.com/rGn0p01.jpg?1)

You have to look at them just right to see Bullwinkle.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: eastman on January 28, 2020, 09:54:43 PM
  I have uniformly bad experiences sizing Aquila and Remington.

Another vote here  for Aquila being bad news, the bases simply won't resize.  Perfecta Brass are Brass coated Steel Cases and should be avoided at all costs.

I have some older Remington brass that has been perfectly fine. Can't speak to current production Remington brass, as I've not gotten my hands on any in the last 5 years.

I've shot well over a thousand rounds of Perfecta (9x19, 9x17, .45 and .308) and have never had a magnetic case. It is just as brass as any other Fiocchi product.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: waratah on February 07, 2020, 09:47:59 PM
PPU 223 cases, my howa gails to extract this case often, no problems with any other brand so far.

S and B 357mag, triangular primer pockets.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: RoverSig on February 07, 2020, 10:53:23 PM
^^ Those look allot like the cases that i got from Freedom Munitions a few years back.

Tok, I got some of the same "stepped" cases in ammo loaded by Freedom Munitions several years ago -- headstamped "Ammoland."   Based on internet research I did at the time, the cases were made in Turkey.   At the time, I thought they might have been made with the band at the web so they could handle "9mm NATO" loadings.   

I have to admit I have reloaded them many times, but I am working to weed them out of my large pile of 9mm brass.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Duke Nukem on March 05, 2020, 10:53:21 AM
Here's one that nearly got past me, bullet wouldn't hold the seat depth so I looked closer.

(https://i.imgur.com/1zB74bSl.jpg)

9mm Browning long Colt, 9x20
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Dan_69GTX on March 05, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
Yup - that is a .380 case
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Wobbly on March 05, 2020, 02:53:39 PM
What we call "380Auto" is what the Europeans call "9mm Browning Kurz". It's really more accurately called 9x17mm, because it does use a 0.355 bullet, but the case is 17mm long.

I recently bought a 32ACP, which is what the Europeans call "7.65mm Browning". "A prophet is never honored in his own country." So I guess the Europeans simply hold JMB in higher esteem.

 ;)
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: eastman on March 05, 2020, 08:54:48 PM
Yup - that is a .380 case

yep, 9mm Browning Corto / 9mm Browning Court are 2 of the European designations for the 9x17mm
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Duke Nukem on March 06, 2020, 01:25:00 PM
Yup - that is a .380 case

yep, 9mm Browning Corto / 9mm Browning Court are 2 of the European designations for the 9x17mm

You're right (you knew that, of course!), it's 9x17mm; wikipedia led me astray.  I think that Kurz and Corto translate as "short", not positive.
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: Wobbly on March 06, 2020, 08:08:36 PM
Most people simply say the German Kurtz.

Because when you use the Italian Corto, it requires that you use both hands.

(https://cdn.instructables.com/FWD/KM86/HWWNPXY3/FWDKM86HWWNPXY3.LARGE.jpg?auto=webp&width=1024&height=1024&fit=bounds)

   ;D
Title: Re: Any other "BAD" brass cases to avoid (any caliber) besides stepped 9mm
Post by: eastman on March 07, 2020, 09:07:11 PM
Most people simply say the German Kurtz.

Because when you use the Italian Corto, it requires that you use both hands.

(https://cdn.instructables.com/FWD/KM86/HWWNPXY3/FWDKM86HWWNPXY3.LARGE.jpg?auto=webp&width=1024&height=1024&fit=bounds)

   ;D


I'm only half-Italian, so I only need one hand to say "Corto"    O0