The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ BREN => Topic started by: Archos on July 26, 2020, 12:22:08 PM
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Other users had asked for more info on my pistol so I figured I would post here as well. My bren 2 was having multiple failures to eject and stovepiping fairly often. On average I would get 1 stovepipe per magazine. Many times the empty case was flipped 180 degrees and wedged between the chamber and bolt while attempting to chamber a 2nd round. The pistol would have these malfunctions with all the ammo I was using, Wolf FMJ, HP and Golden Tiger FMJ. I also tried both gas settings with no change in performance The original video I took is here:
https://youtu.be/L-cUi9Aw11g
For the rest I'll just copy my update from Arfcom.
Well, after 5 weeks I received my 9" Bren 2 back from CZ. I was having stovepipe malfunctions at a frequency of roughly 1 per magazine.
When I received the email stating what had been done to correct the problem I was not very optimistic that the issue would be fixed, however I figured I would give it a shot.
Warranty sheet: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8gc4QTjyLs8yNBkj7
I received the pistol yesterday morning and was lucky enough to slip away to the range to quickly run 100rnds through it for a test fire.
The pistol made it through the first magazine of 20rnds without a hitch. I then loaded a different magazine with 30rnds which the pistol also made it through. The next magazine was loaded to 30rnds and unfortunately at the tail end of the mag I had a stovepipe, I would guess right around 75 rounds into the session.
Stovepipe: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lu7QmuThA8DqSD1N8
After clearing the malfunction I burned off the remaining ammo I had without a hitch. All in all I shot 100 rounds with one stovepipe. I'm also going to add a picture of the wear on the front of my ejection port for all to see, I'd like to know if any of you have the same wear?
Ejection port: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MrM82f29YvoKeRAw5
Also here is a picture of a spent case, this case barely made it out of the chamber when fired. This is the worst example I could find.
Bent case mouth: https://photos.app.goo.gl/YpqzTaboNPcqQh8YA
This bren has roughly 400 rounds through it at this time, I'm going to contact CZ about the pistol and see if they can take another look at it.
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So it stove piped on both gas settings and CZ’s remedy was to clean the gas port...I wonder if the gas port hole is too small / under gassed?
Also, how did it shoot before you put the HBI hand guard on it?
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From the ejection pattern of most of the rounds and the recoil impulse I find it hard to believe that the pistol is undergassed, but I could be wrong.
Before replacing the handguard I only ran roughly 100 rounds through the pistol. I didnt have any stovepipes within that time frame. The only issue I had was with my buddy attempting to chamber a round from a full magazine.
I have adjusted the torque on the handguard screws between range sessions to check if improper installation was an issue, however there has been no change in performance.
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Try something: disassemble the weapon, remove the bolt, cam pin, and firing pin from the carrier, reinstall the carrier and recoil assembly, and see if the carrier binds at all when it's near the chamber. It shouldn't bind or experience any resistance at all.
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Other users had asked for more info on my pistol so I figured I would post here as well. My bren 2 was having multiple failures to eject and stovepiping fairly often. On average I would get 1 stovepipe per magazine. Many times the empty case was flipped 180 degrees and wedged between the chamber and bolt while attempting to chamber a 2nd round. The pistol would have these malfunctions with all the ammo I was using, Wolf FMJ, HP and Golden Tiger FMJ. I also tried both gas settings with no change in performance.
Looking at your video, it appears that the first rounds are barely getting ejected before it stovepipes, subsequent rounds appear to eject normally, then suddenly stove pipes. Is it certain magazines or ammo that is worse for this?
I'm wondering if maybe the gas port / gas block are misaligned / misshapen or maybe drilled too small? Seems like gas gets clogged up and it stove pipes, gets burned clean with subsequent rounds and then starts the clogging / stovepipe cycle again. Can you get a bore scope and look at the gas port from inside the barrel?
Other than that, before you send it back to CZ, you might reassemble the gun in the original configuration with the OEM hand guard and see if it works better or not. I'd use new screws (torqued to 65 in.lbs. as per CZ) and nord lock washers (available from Fastenal) as the originals get stretched and jinked up from disassembly / assembly and locktite residue. I'm just not a fan of this aftermarket hand guard configuration - where you go from 3 rails and 15 screws to 2 rails and 4 screws...
Good luck!
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My 14" 7.62x39 started having the same issue after I installed the HBI handguard (700 rounds shot before the hg arrived with 0 failures). I hit up HBI and they recommended lowering the torque spec to 50-70 inch lbs. Doing that has so far solved my issue (~300 rounds without a failure).
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My 14" 7.62x39 started having the same issue after I installed the HBI handguard (700 rounds shot before the hg arrived with 0 failures). I hit up HBI and they recommended lowering the torque spec to 50-70 inch lbs. Doing that has so far solved my issue (~300 rounds without a failure).
Initially HBI recommended 90 in.lbs. Some had cycling issues so they reduced it to 70. CZ recommends 65 in. Lbs.
Apparently, the Bren 2Ms can exhibit some sensitivity to changing the hand guard configuration from the OEM set up (3 rails, 15 screws) to the HBI / CZ 922r compliance hand guard (2 rails, 4 screws). Although I did not have any cycling issues with the HBI hand guard, I did notice that ejected cases had heavy streaks of carbon running down the length of the cases (both brass and steel), which was not seen with the OEM hand guard set up.
This past weekend I changed back to the OEM hand guard set up and fired @ 200 rounds: there were no carbon streaks on the ejected cases (brass or steel). There was some carbon build up around the case mouth to the shoulder on spent steel cases, but no carbon at all on the outside of the brass cases.
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Since the outer diameter of the barrel for both the 556 and 762 are the same, that means the 762 has thinner walls due to the larger round.
It seems like the thinner walled 7.62 barrel is susceptible to being squeezed out of spec when over torqued.
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Since the outer diameter of the barrel for both the 556 and 762 are the same, that means the 762 has thinner walls due to the larger round.
It seems like the thinner walled 7.62 barrel is susceptible to being squeezed out of spec when over torqued.
Please elaborate on this. I'm not sure i'm following. There is no way a steel chamber is deforming with 90 inch lbs being applied to it. Please explain what you mean by the above post.
To the OP: I'm in the same boat brother. I'm going to wait and see what happens with my gun when it comes back but i'm getting ready to divest myself of the platform. I don't have the patience for what may end up being a half baked americanized design. If the original intent behind the MS platform, ie a modular front end cannot be realized this gun is all but useless to me from an ergonomic standpoint.
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Adding to this post as I have also posted in the Arfcom thread as well.
After only 2.5 weeks into its second trip to CZ I received notice that my pistol's warranty work was complete. I was also able to speak with Mike, one of the gunsmiths over at CZ who worked on my firearm.
Mike told me that he had broken down and inspected my firearm for any issues that could explain my stovepipes. The only thing he was able to find was an excessive build up of lacquer in the chamber. He explained that due to the build up the cases were sticking to the chamber and thus creating stovepipes.
Mike went on to explain to me that the lacquer coated steel case ammo is the culprit, and that the lacquer melts and sticks to the chamber upon firing. He did say that polymer coated steel case would be fine to shoot and would prevent these malfunctions.
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Now, my understanding is that the lacquer doesnt melt off the case, but rather that the steel doesnt expand as well or as quickly as brass, thus allowing carbon and other crud to wedge itself between the case and chamber.
The other thing that bothers me is the fact that I have shot maybe 60 rounds of lacquer coated ammo through this firearm, not to mention that my last range trip the pistol malfunctioned prior to shooting the lacquer coated Golden Tiger.
Either way I told them I'll give it a shot, if I end up having another malfunction I'll be sending it back to CZ. Its extremely frustrating that this pistol has so many issues, when my 556R, made by SIG has no issues in the thousands of rounds I put through it.
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Adding to this post as I have also posted in the Arfcom thread as well.
After only 2.5 weeks into its second trip to CZ I received notice that my pistol's warranty work was complete. I was also able to speak with Mike, one of the gunsmiths over at CZ who worked on my firearm.
Mike told me that he had broken down and inspected my firearm for any issues that could explain my stovepipes. The only thing he was able to find was an excessive build up of lacquer in the chamber. He explained that due to the build up the cases were sticking to the chamber and thus creating stovepipes.
Mike went on to explain to me that the lacquer coated steel case ammo is the culprit, and that the lacquer melts and sticks to the chamber upon firing. He did say that polymer coated steel case would be fine to shoot and would prevent these malfunctions.
:-\
Now, my understanding is that the lacquer doesnt melt off the case, but rather that the steel doesnt expand as well or as quickly as brass, thus allowing carbon and other crud to wedge itself between the case and chamber.
The other thing that bothers me is the fact that I have shot maybe 60 rounds of lacquer coated ammo through this firearm, not to mention that my last range trip the pistol malfunctioned prior to shooting the lacquer coated Golden Tiger.
Either way I told them I'll give it a shot, if I end up having another malfunction I'll be sending it back to CZ. Its extremely frustrating that this pistol has so many issues, when my 556R, made by SIG has no issues in the thousands of rounds I put through it.
The problem is Lacquer?
On a AR-18 based Czech gun built to shoot steel-cased, lacquer-coated 7.62x39 ammunition manufactured in the former Warsaw Pact?
Sounds like a load of BS to me, disinformation used to obscure the real problem (which CZ probably has no grip on at this point).
Here are the common denominators that I see on all these guns getting jammed up:
1. Bren 2Ms model. Check
2. 7.62x39 caliber. Check.
3. Aftermarket hand guard. Check.
4. Reduction from 15 torqued barrel / hand guard screws to just 4. Check.
Anything else?
I'm no gunsmith or engineer, but I never thought much about the idea of going from 15 torqued screws and an integrated fore end on the OEM 2Ms to hold the barrel, "hand guard" and receiver together, and then paring it down to just 4 screws (of ever changing torque specs) to hold the same or greater stress load with an extended hand guard. Color me skeptical.
ETA: I did see one 2S model on here having these troubles, but it was fitted with aftermarket pica tinny rails and missing some torqued screws.
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I highly doubt the issue is with the aftermarket handguard. The carbine also uses this style of attachment for the handguard, and you don't see any issues with them. In fact, you don't see any issues with the 5.56mm pistols and aftermarket handguards at all. There are many other rifles out there that use the same style of barrel attachment, in .308 for that matter, that have no issues.
This pistol did have one issue of stripping the round off the magazine prior to switching the handguard out as well.
The gunsmith also did not mention the handguard as the culprit either. I am more convinced that they don't have any idea of what is causing these issues, and are just hoping that the issue will go away on its own. Or they are hoping that people don't actually shoot their firearms ;).
I'll report back when my pistol arrives. I will most likely attempt it with the aftermarket handguard and the factory one to rule out any possibilities.
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I highly doubt the issue is with the aftermarket handguard. The carbine also uses this style of attachment for the handguard, and you don't see any issues with them. In fact, you don't see any issues with the 5.56mm pistols and aftermarket handguards at all. There are many other rifles out there that use the same style of barrel attachment, in .308 for that matter, that have no issues.
This pistol did have one issue of stripping the round off the magazine prior to switching the handguard out as well.
The gunsmith also did not mention the handguard as the culprit either. I am more convinced that they don't have any idea of what is causing these issues, and are just hoping that the issue will go away on its own. Or they are hoping that people don't actually shoot their firearms ;).
I'll report back when my pistol arrives. I will most likely attempt it with the aftermarket handguard and the factory one to rule out any possibilities.
Of course, 5.56 is a significantly less powerful cartridge than 7.62x39, so that is very likely a big part of the equation.
You look at the 2S and all the actual military (full auto) versions of the Bren 2, and you see that they all have at least 9 torqued screws and 3 extended plates on the forward part of the receiver (no separate "hand guard") holding the barrel to the receiver. We're not talking about other rifles of different designs. This is the CZ Bren that's been in production as a military rifle for years. You look at pics of the .308 Bren BR and it has even more torque screws holding the front end and barrel together. No "hand guard" held together by only 4 screws that nobody can decide what the proper torque specs are for them.
When you get your gun back and put the OEM Ms fore end back together on it, be sure to use new screws and nordlock washers torqued to spec since those parts take a beating in the disassembly / reassembly process.
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Ah the age old debate, power of 5.56 vs 7.62....
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Ah the age old debate, power of 5.56 vs 7.62....
Not much to debate if you've ever shot them, or even looked at ballistics tables (muzzle energy, etc.). Barrier penetration is one that 7.62x39 clearly excels at compared to 5.56.
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Ah the age old debate, power of 5.56 vs 7.62....
Not much to debate if you've ever shot them, or even looked at ballistics tables (muzzle energy, etc.). Barrier penetration is one that 7.62x39 clearly excels at compared to 5.56.
Oh its a very old debate, where one looses the other wins and vice versa. They hold about the grains of powder, 5.56 greater chamber pressure, more muzzle velocity... blah blah blah. I own both. It doesn’t really matter does it
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Ah the age old debate, power of 5.56 vs 7.62....
Not much to debate if you've ever shot them, or even looked at ballistics tables (muzzle energy, etc.). Barrier penetration is one that 7.62x39 clearly excels at compared to 5.56.
Oh its a very old debate, where one looses the other wins and vice versa. They hold about the grains of powder, 5.56 greater chamber pressure, more muzzle velocity... blah blah blah. I own both. It doesn’t really matter does it
No it doesn’t matter other than the fact that these jamming issues are only occurring with 7.62x39 guns, especially after changing to aftermarket hand guards / mounting plates. 5.56 guns do not seem to be so afflicted. So what’s the difference (other than @ 200 foot pounds of muzzle energy)? 🙄
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I like the HB hand guard but holding off for a bit till all this gets sorted out.
Difference in the rounds doesn’t matter
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I like the HB hand guard but holding off for a bit till all this gets sorted out.
Difference in the rounds doesn’t matter
So how do you explain why 7.62x39 guns are jamming and 5.56 guns are not?
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I have two Bren 2's, one 11" 5.56 and one 9" 7.62. Both have had HBI handguards on since day one. My 5.56 has over 3500 through it with zero failures. My 7.62 made it to almost exactly 2500 rounds before it malfunctioned. It now will perform like the OP's once every 45 rounds or so.
I ordered a BCM enhanced extractor spring set. I'm gonna try that spring and see if it helps at all.
I'll keep everyone informed.
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Quick update on my 9" 7.62X39 Bren2.
Got it back on Tuesday from its 2nd trip back to CZ for frequent stovepipe issues, was told this time its due to lacquer build up in the chamber.
Finally got to the range today, 380rnds with 9 stovepipes. Even tried the original handguard at the end of the range trip and still had 2 stovepipes in the first magazine. This time at the range I purposely did not use any lacquer coated ammo, only Wolf Polyformance FMJ and HP.
I have pictures of most malfunctions, just too tired and irritated to post them. Guess I'll contact CZ again.
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Quick update on my 9" 7.62X39 Bren2.
Got it back on Tuesday from its 2nd trip back to CZ for frequent stovepipe issues, was told this time its due to lacquer build up in the chamber.
Finally got to the range today, 380rnds with 9 stovepipes. Even tried the original handguard at the end of the range trip and still had 2 stovepipes in the first magazine. This time at the range I purposely did not use any lacquer coated ammo, only Wolf Polyformance FMJ and HP.
I have pictures of most malfunctions, just too tired and irritated to post them. Guess I'll contact CZ again.
I have two Bren 2's, one 11" 5.56 and one 9" 7.62. Both have had HBI handguards on since day one. My 5.56 has over 3500 through it with zero failures. My 7.62 made it to almost exactly 2500 rounds before it malfunctioned. It now will perform like the OP's once every 45 rounds or so.
I ordered a BCM enhanced extractor spring set. I'm gonna try that spring and see if it helps at all.
I'll keep everyone informed.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
bleep, sorry you guys continue to have problems...would be interested to see if the BCM AR extractor has any effect.
Just spit balling here:
1. Have you cleaned the gas system with the CZ kit supplied tools recently?
2. Any effect changing to #2 gas regulator setting?
3. How much torque are you using on the 4 hand guard / receiver / barrel screws?
4. Are you using new or the original screws and nord lock washers?
5. How do spent shell casings look?
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Quick update on my 9" 7.62X39 Bren2.
Got it back on Tuesday from its 2nd trip back to CZ for frequent stovepipe issues, was told this time its due to lacquer build up in the chamber.
Finally got to the range today, 380rnds with 9 stovepipes. Even tried the original handguard at the end of the range trip and still had 2 stovepipes in the first magazine. This time at the range I purposely did not use any lacquer coated ammo, only Wolf Polyformance FMJ and HP.
I have pictures of most malfunctions, just too tired and irritated to post them. Guess I'll contact CZ again.
I have two Bren 2's, one 11" 5.56 and one 9" 7.62. Both have had HBI handguards on since day one. My 5.56 has over 3500 through it with zero failures. My 7.62 made it to almost exactly 2500 rounds before it malfunctioned. It now will perform like the OP's once every 45 rounds or so.
I ordered a BCM enhanced extractor spring set. I'm gonna try that spring and see if it helps at all.
I'll keep everyone informed.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
bleep, sorry you guys continue to have problems...would be interested to see if the BCM AR extractor has any effect.
Just spit balling here:
1. Have you cleaned the gas system with the CZ kit supplied tools recently?
2. Any effect changing to #2 gas regulator setting?
3. How much torque are you using on the 4 hand guard / receiver / barrel screws?
4. Are you using new or the original screws and nord lock washers?
5. How do spent shell casings look?
1. Yes, I recently thoroughly cleaned the entire gas system using the provided tools.
2. Haven't tried this setting, as I think it has too much gas already, but will try it.
3. 70 in/lbs, haven't touched them since I installed it.
4. Using HBI provided screws with factory nord lock washers.
5. The case mouths are slightly "D" shaped but nothing too crazy. The case rims don't show excessive marking.
The BCM extractor spring is out for delivery, I'll let you guys know later today if:
1. It fits
2. It helps / hurts the issue
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Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to head out to the range and test out my theory with the BCM enhanced extractor spring. I am attaching a picture of the two springs, with the stock one on the left, BCM on the right. Second picture shows it sitting in the bolt.
I'll let you know how it goes! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200823/0ea0dbf3cef71ab1552ec8ceeebf0a4b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200823/3ade003f7ab4f2aae102f7f0d06e2fa1.jpg)
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Hey guys,
I just got back from the range, and I am cautiously optimistic. So far, the gun is functioning better with the BCM enhanced extractor spring compared to the stock one.
I was able to put 8 full mags through the gun with zero malfunctions of any kind.
I think it is too early to call this a victory, as I want to get more rounds through it, but this is a promising start.
Anyone wanna volunteer to help me test this out? The extractor spring kits are less than $5, and it would be great to see if someone else could corroborate my findings.
So far, so good. I'll keep this thread updated as I put more rounds through the gun.
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Wow, that is a great and promising start! I will have to check into this if mine starts having issues. I just replaced the hand guard on my 7.62x39 with a 922r kit hand guard and have not had a chance to shoot it. I will be updating this thread as I get time.
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Some really great ideas being thrown around here.
Quick question, I noticed there are a considerable amount of people with this malfunction. I'm just getting some ideas thrown around, the other day I had 4-5 in a string of 20-rounds once I started firing while standing (60 rounds fired from a rest with no problem before). I'm thinking my thumb, with a typical (modern) thumb over bore grip was interfering with the charging handle locking and remaining unlocked, maybe causing the extractor to not get a reliable grip on the spent case as the BCG met resistance before it locked completely forward (extractor is longer on 7.62x39 models than 5.56x45).
Once I changed my grip, testing the theory by resting the hand guard on my palm, then after with a clamp behind the charging handle; I fired 120-rounds without issue.
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I just got in 500 rounds of Barnaul ammo and want to try that out, so I'm making a second trip to the range today. Will end up putting another 200 through it. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Been using mostly Golden Tiger (2.5k rounds), and approx 80 rounds of Tulammo so far.
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I just got in 500 rounds of Barnaul ammo and want to try that out, so I'm making a second trip to the range today. Will end up putting another 200 through it. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Been using mostly Golden Tiger (2.5k rounds), and approx 80 rounds of Tulammo so far.
My guns like the Barnaul just as much as Golden Tiger, and I find it to compare favorably in the accuracy department also
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I just got in 500 rounds of Barnaul ammo and want to try that out, so I'm making a second trip to the range today. Will end up putting another 200 through it. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Been using mostly Golden Tiger (2.5k rounds), and approx 80 rounds of Tulammo so far.
Any update?
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Alright guys, time to pump the brakes on my idea for now.
I put ~400 rounds total yesterday through the gun, with zero failures, but on the final mag I broke the extractor.
Not sure if it was the spring that caused it, but I would assume so.
I called CZ and they are going to send me a new extractor if they can find one... I should know tomorrow.
Edit: I should mention that the current round count on the gun is approximately 2900.
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I see you have the extractor donut installed which might cause issues. Usually the donut is not needed with the stiffer 5-coil extractor springs, and the Bren 2 extractor did not come with a donut installed either
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I see you have the extractor donut installed which might cause issues. Usually the donut is not needed with the stiffer 5-coil extractor springs, and the Bren 2 extractor did not come with a donut installed either
Yeah, that is probably what broke my extractor :)
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I see you have the extractor donut installed which might cause issues. Usually the donut is not needed with the stiffer 5-coil extractor springs, and the Bren 2 extractor did not come with a donut installed either
Yeah, that is probably what broke my extractor :)
Alright guys, time to pump the brakes on my idea for now.
I put ~400 rounds total yesterday through the gun, with zero failures, but on the final mag I broke the extractor.
Not sure if it was the spring that caused it, but I would assume so.
I called CZ and they are going to send me a new extractor if they can find one... I should know tomorrow.
Edit: I should mention that the current round count on the gun is approximately 2900.
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Thanks for going to the effort to deepen the pool of knowledge here!
So maybe just the BCM extractor spring will fix the problem...
It's really unforgivable that CZ isn't stocking ANY parts for the Bren 2 after a year or two of importing them to the US.
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Well I'll have my spring kit on stand by until some extractors are imported and available for purchase.
I'm going to run another 200 - 250 rounds through mine with the charging handle on the right hand side, this just seems to stand out to me as when I changed my grip to behind the charging handle (thumb no longer placing pressure against it, which likely unlocked it) there were no more malfunctions. Ejection was fairly consistent with Golden Tiger. 2-ish 'o' clock.
This is almost comical, how are they selling $1,600 - $2,000 firearms without any spare parts here in the United States?
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Thanks for going to the effort to deepen the pool of knowledge here!
So maybe just the BCM extractor spring will fix the problem...
It's really unforgivable that CZ isn't stocking ANY parts for the Bren 2 after a year or two of importing them to the US.
Hey, no problem! I've got two Bren 2's for a few reasons... I love them, and it also means that I can break one and still have one available to shoot! I just can't afford to shoot 5.56, haha!
When I called CZ, the guy said that their "Bren 2 parts guy" was out for the day. I guess they've only got one person for this.
I think omitting the o-ring would prevent any damage from occurring to the extractor. The spring alone wouldn't cause *that* much more pressure.
I'm going to run my friends extractor in my gun this week, and his is basically brand new. I'm assuming the gun will shoot like new, but who knows at this point.
It was literally flawless for almost 2.5k rounds, and then this crap starts happening like a light switch got flipped.
I tell you though, that gun ran like a boss for 400 rounds with that spring and o-ring in there ;D
Well I'll have my spring kit on stand by until some extractors are imported and available for purchase.
I'm going to run another 200 - 250 rounds through mine with the charging handle on the right hand side, this just seems to stand out to me as when I changed my grip to behind the charging handle (thumb no longer placing pressure against it, which likely unlocked it) there were no more malfunctions. Ejection was fairly consistent with Golden Tiger. 2-ish 'o' clock.
This is almost comical, how are they selling $1,600 - $2,000 firearms without any spare parts here in the United States?
I'll let you know more tomorrow, I'm going to try to talk to "the Bren 2 parts guy" and see if he is even willing to admit to there possibly being an issue with these guns. I'm going to try and convince him to send me more than one extractor as well in case this happens in another few months.
I really hope the root of this issue is a bad batch of extractors.
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CZ-USA knows there is a problem but they believe it's due to commercial ammunition [we know it's not], this is what they told me today.
"Talking to our Technical Support Gunsmiths, they've seen a handful of Bren 2 7.62x39s with a mix of issues causing the rifle to run a bit sluggishly. Clogged gas ports and chambers laden with varnish were the main culprits, though with quality ammo even those super dirty rifles ran well. We've had one rifle through that had been subjected to some seriously hot stuff, with tons of wear on its springs and buffer. Replacement of the worn parts and it ran as it should.
As with anything, quality ammo will go a long way. Steel-cased ammo will increase wear and tear, so the expectation is that a bit more maintenance may be a reality."
They are so far off base right now. I contacted CZ-EU as well, waiting on their response.
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CZ-USA knows there is a problem but they believe it's due to commercial ammunition [we know it's not], this is what they told me today.
"Talking to our Technical Support Gunsmiths, they've seen a handful of Bren 2 7.62x39s with a mix of issues causing the rifle to run a bit sluggishly. Clogged gas ports and chambers laden with varnish were the main culprits, though with quality ammo even those super dirty rifles ran well. We've had one rifle through that had been subjected to some seriously hot stuff, with tons of wear on its springs and buffer. Replacement of the worn parts and it ran as it should.
As with anything, quality ammo will go a long way. Steel-cased ammo will increase wear and tear, so the expectation is that a bit more maintenance may be a reality."
They are so far off base right now. I contacted CZ-EU as well, waiting on their response.
If the gun can't run steel cased ammo reliably then there was no point of bringing this gun to the American market in my opinion. We aren't rolling around like GIGN with Hornady 7.62x39 in our guns all the time.
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CZ-USA knows there is a problem but they believe it's due to commercial ammunition [we know it's not], this is what they told me today.
"Talking to our Technical Support Gunsmiths, they've seen a handful of Bren 2 7.62x39s with a mix of issues causing the rifle to run a bit sluggishly. Clogged gas ports and chambers laden with varnish were the main culprits, though with quality ammo even those super dirty rifles ran well. We've had one rifle through that had been subjected to some seriously hot stuff, with tons of wear on its springs and buffer. Replacement of the worn parts and it ran as it should.
As with anything, quality ammo will go a long way. Steel-cased ammo will increase wear and tear, so the expectation is that a bit more maintenance may be a reality."
They are so far off base right now. I contacted CZ-EU as well, waiting on their response.
If the gun can't run steel cased ammo reliably then there was no point of bringing this gun to the American market in my opinion. We aren't rolling around like GIGN with Hornady 7.62x39 in our guns all the time.
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Like I said, they are clueless right now. You're absolutely correct, I think you're on to something however that they need to tune (increase spring pressure) on the extractor to run reliably with steel cased ammunition.
I let them know that they're going to obtain a reputation for the Bren 2S (Ms) in 7.62x39 as being unreliable, if they don't engineer a solution to this problem quickly.
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^As much as I love the Bren 2, the ergonomics, light handling, modularity w/ optics, accuracy and (for me, thus far) reliability, I can’t use it as a go to, first tier shtf weapon because it has no parts or service back up from CZ, even after @ 2 years of imports into the USA. Inexcusable.
I can’t keep track of the people having failures to extract / eject issues with the Bren 2, but it seems that all have 7.62x39 guns and (most) have fitted aftermarket hand guards and / or rail plates... may have to do a poll, though I’m no inter web genus....
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The rubber extractor spring O-ring was introduced to address extraction failures in M4s. The cause of those extraction failures? Premature unlocking while chamber pressure was higher than optimal. What caused the bolt to unlock too early? Gas port erosion causing the carbines to become over gassed after some thousands of rounds fired.
It's interesting to note that when midlength gas systems were introduced to 16" bbl AR15s, the need for extractor o-rings went away. Why? The midlength gas system essentially allows unlocking to happen later, when chamber pressure is lower, making extraction easier. The port is also farther from the chamber, meaning it doesn't enlarge as quickly over the life of the barrel due to port erosion.
Want to know some more symptoms of an overgassed gun? Bolt over base malfunctions, stovepipe failures with the mouth of the case pointing into the receiver (in guns with plunger ejectors), violent ejection, and excessive peaning of the rear of the bolt carrier, fire control group, and components impacted by the bolt carrier at its rear of travel.
The 9" 7.62x39 guns are badly overgassed. Springs can't fix that. You have to reduce the size of the gas port.
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CZ-USA knows there is a problem but they believe it's due to commercial ammunition [we know it's not], this is what they told me today.
"Talking to our Technical Support Gunsmiths, they've seen a handful of Bren 2 7.62x39s with a mix of issues causing the rifle to run a bit sluggishly. Clogged gas ports and chambers laden with varnish were the main culprits, though with quality ammo even those super dirty rifles ran well. We've had one rifle through that had been subjected to some seriously hot stuff, with tons of wear on its springs and buffer. Replacement of the worn parts and it ran as it should.
As with anything, quality ammo will go a long way. Steel-cased ammo will increase wear and tear, so the expectation is that a bit more maintenance may be a reality."
They are so far off base right now. I contacted CZ-EU as well, waiting on their response.
That is such a steaming pile of DUNG response right there. They're passing the buck and its complete garbage. You (CZ) went out of your way to make a garbage Americanized version of a rifle. The fact that they state that its an ammo related issue and their baby is perfect in every way is about as dismissive as a company can be. They're also perpetuating bullbleep myths that have been disprove time and again. Increased wear? Yeah...the only thing that wears is the barrel itself due to the bimetal bullets.
I hadn't shot anything but polymer coated steel through my gun when it started having issues so the whole "varnish" excuse is pure bullbleep to me. The polymer does not "melt" off of the steel resulting in a dirty or fouled chamber. There are PSA AR15's that can run steel cased .223 fo THOUSANDS of rounds without issue with no cleaning and only lubricant being added.
Also "clogged gas ports". What the FUDGE are they talking about? I haven't measured it but carrier velocity on my gun never decreased as I neared FIVE THOUSAND rounds. In fact, the gun just became even more unreliable and erratic in its ejection pattern. This gun has NEVER, EVER had anything close to a sluggish bolt. EVER.
They're literally just saying bleep at this point to make noise. This is seriously irritating.
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I do see that there are lots of folks with aftermarket hand guards who have this issue, but I almost have to wonder if there is a correlation between people with these handguards, and people who actually shoot their guns a lot.
I have 2.5k rounds flawlessly through the gun with the handguard installed. Not sure why it would cause problems only after that many rounds.
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Either this is purposeful obfuscation, or the people they have looking at people's returned firearms are just incompetent. I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
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I'm hell bent on getting this rifle to run reliably. I will even get a new gas port drilled in the "0" setting that is smaller to test overgassing theories.
I am gonna call my buddy in the Czech Republic later today who works for a CZ LE dealer and see if he knows of anything regarding these guns on that side of the pond.
I should also be able to talk to the CZ-USA "Bren 2 Parts Guy" today. I'll see what I can pull out of him.
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I'm hell bent on getting this rifle to run reliably. I will even get a new gas port drilled in the "0" setting that is smaller to test overgassing theories.
I am gonna call my buddy in the Czech Republic later today who works for a CZ LE dealer and see if he knows of anything regarding these guns on that side of the pond.
I should also be able to talk to the CZ-USA "Bren 2 Parts Guy" today. I'll see what I can pull out of him.
I'm so happy people are so dedicated to fixing the issues that CZ clearly doesn't care about. Hopefully someone figures something out before mine arrives. I put off purchasing a couple other guns because I'm in love with CZ and had to make sure I'd be able to buy a Bren 2. Super dismayed with what I'm reading since I got the 7.62x39 version.
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I'm hell bent on getting this rifle to run reliably. I will even get a new gas port drilled in the "0" setting that is smaller to test overgassing theories.
I am gonna call my buddy in the Czech Republic later today who works for a CZ LE dealer and see if he knows of anything regarding these guns on that side of the pond.
I should also be able to talk to the CZ-USA "Bren 2 Parts Guy" today. I'll see what I can pull out of him.
I'm so happy people are so dedicated to fixing the issues that CZ clearly doesn't care about. Hopefully someone figures something out before mine arrives. I put off purchasing a couple other guns because I'm in love with CZ and had to make sure if be able to buy a Bren 2. Super dismayed with what I'm reading since I got the 7.62x39 version.
These are the only guns I own with the exception of my carry gun which is a Sig P365XL. I've got almost 10 CZ's and they have all been fantastic. This is the only one that has given me any sorts of issues.
I will get this gun running, and hopefully get others running along with mine!
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I'm hell bent on getting this rifle to run reliably. I will even get a new gas port drilled in the "0" setting that is smaller to test overgassing theories.
I am gonna call my buddy in the Czech Republic later today who works for a CZ LE dealer and see if he knows of anything regarding these guns on that side of the pond.
I should also be able to talk to the CZ-USA "Bren 2 Parts Guy" today. I'll see what I can pull out of him.
I'm so happy people are so dedicated to fixing the issues that CZ clearly doesn't care about. Hopefully someone figures something out before mine arrives. I put off purchasing a couple other guns because I'm in love with CZ and had to make sure if be able to buy a Bren 2. Super dismayed with what I'm reading since I got the 7.62x39 version.
These are the only guns I own with the exception of my carry gun which is a Sig P365XL. I've got almost 10 CZ's and they have all been fantastic. This is the only one that has given me any sorts of issues.
I will get this gun running, and hopefully get others running along with mine!
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Not all heroes wear capes...... Unless you do. In which case....carry on. :D
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In case folks are curious, here are pictures of my destroyed 7.62 extractor compared to my 5.56 extractor which has like twice as many rounds on it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200825/7718d8dc2c8230bf8110d751a37e98e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200825/dec0fb8376c8d5135bb2b2f2c8cffd8e.jpg)
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In case folks are curious, here are pictures of my destroyed 7.62 extractor compared to my 5.56 extractor which has like twice as many rounds on it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200825/7718d8dc2c8230bf8110d751a37e98e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200825/dec0fb8376c8d5135bb2b2f2c8cffd8e.jpg)
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Do the 556 and 762 guns use the same gas port? Are the holes the same? I would think they shouldn't be, but would it work to swap the gas selectors to see if different sized holes make a difference?
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Wow, ok, first off let me say that I am pretty livid right now.
I just got off the phone with CZ customer service, and explained my situation. I forget the name of the person I spoke with yesterday, so he takes down all of my info again (apparently they can't look anything up), and proceeds to tell me that they WILL NOT SEND ME AN EXTRACTOR, AND THAT I NEED TO SEND THE ENTIRE GUN IN FOR REPAIR.
I am FURIOUS.
I am not sending this gun to them, no way. They are going to send me an extractor.
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Wow, ok, first off let me say that I am pretty livid right now.
I just got off the phone with CZ customer service, and explained my situation. I forget the name of the person I spoke with yesterday, so he takes down all of my info again (apparently they can't look anything up), and proceeds to tell me that they WILL NOT SEND ME AN EXTRACTOR, AND THAT I NEED TO SEND THE ENTIRE GUN IN FOR REPAIR.
I am FURIOUS.
I am not sending this gun to them, no way. They are going to send me an extractor.
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This situation with CZ-USA and the Bren 2 7.62x39 fiasco gets worse by the minute.
They want you to go through all the hassle of shipping an entire firearm - to swap out a $35 extractor that takes less than a minute to do?
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I just got into it with the customer service manager. I'm supposed to be getting a call from someone in the actual warranty department.
I am so ticked off right now.
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This is not how CZ-USA wants to proceed if they intend to continue to sell $1,600 - $1,800 Bren 2's in 7.62x39 here in the United States.
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In case folks are curious, here are pictures of my destroyed 7.62 extractor compared to my 5.56 extractor which has like twice as many rounds on it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200825/7718d8dc2c8230bf8110d751a37e98e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200825/dec0fb8376c8d5135bb2b2f2c8cffd8e.jpg)
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Yikes! Looks way over gassed, probably too big a gas port in the barrel or maybe on the gas regulator.
CZ really needs to get their parts and service together on the Bren 2. This is inexcusable.
I tried to post a poll on here to see how prevalent this problem is, but it failed to take. I am a luddite anyway.
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CZ needs replacement gas regulators sent to everyone, and proper chrome silicone 5-coil extractor springs. Or have a dual spring extractor setup like the lobster tail extractors on LMT E-BCGs. I think the gas port being right at the muzzle and lack of dwell time contributes to those issues. Maybe a teeny tiny gas port upgrade and a suppressor would help alleviate these issues, by decreasing gas port pressure and increasing dwell time?
My 9" 7.62 SBR had a few stovepipes early on, but those issues have gone away (for now). Have close to 800 rounds downrange.
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Maybe I’m a dummy but I am wondering now if perhaps the issue lies in the conversion, and whether the bolt carrier is lighter than the FA version, but they left the gas ports sized the same? Perhaps the rail has nothing to do with it, but the round count does, and once it breaks in the bolt speed exceeds the functional range?
IF that’s the case then either a weight buffer of some sort, or decreased gas port size, or stronger return spring might help
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Maybe I’m a dummy but I am wondering now if perhaps the issue lies in the conversion, and whether the bolt carrier is lighter than the FA version, but they left the gas ports sized the same? Perhaps the rail has nothing to do with it, but the round count does, and once it breaks in the bolt speed exceeds the functional range?
IF that’s the case then either a weight buffer of some sort, or decreased gas port size, or stronger return spring might help
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Good theory bud. I think you're probably on to something there but i'm not sure if the weight difference on the FA version is significant. I actually think the FA bolt may be lighter due to the cutout for the auto sear but that is PURE speculation.
I think CZ screwed the pooch with spring rates and gas port sizes, period. The "butt dyno" leads me to believe that ALL barrel lengths use the same recoil spring rating as well as the 5.56 and 7.62X39 guns sharing the same.
Anyone that has spent ANY time around varied barrel lengths on any AR15 knows that there is no one size (rate) fits all optimal spring.
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Maybe I’m a dummy but I am wondering now if perhaps the issue lies in the conversion, and whether the bolt carrier is lighter than the FA version, but they left the gas ports sized the same? Perhaps the rail has nothing to do with it, but the round count does, and once it breaks in the bolt speed exceeds the functional range?
IF that’s the case then either a weight buffer of some sort, or decreased gas port size, or stronger return spring might help
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Good theory bud. I think you're probably on to something there but i'm not sure if the weight difference on the FA version is significant. I actually think the FA bolt may be lighter due to the cutout for the auto sear but that is PURE speculation.
I think CZ screwed the pooch with spring rates and gas port sizes, period. The "butt dyno" leads me to believe that ALL barrel lengths use the same recoil spring rating as well as the 5.56 and 7.62X39 guns sharing the same.
Anyone that has spent ANY time around varied barrel lengths on any AR15 knows that there is no one size (rate) fits all optimal spring.
I can confirm that the recoil springs in my 9" 7.62x39 and 11" 5.56 are exactly the same, which seems strange.
I'm starting to think that another option we may be able to pursue on our own is drilling out the "0" setting on the gas port. Start small, and work progressively larger. Would have the added benefit of running better with a can too in theory.
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How can CZ-EU & CZ-USA not get this right, when Krink's have existed virtually forever and are bomb-proof in reliability.
I'm going to run a few hundred rounds next time out, with the CH on right hand side. Make sure I tap the charging handle to verify it locks after each magazine change. I'll also shoot a few rounds on the suppressor setting to get a good idea on where to drill.
I'll make sure to report back, as of right now, the answer from CZ-USA ["buy brass-cased 7.62x39"] just isn't going to cut it.
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Maybe I’m a dummy but I am wondering now if perhaps the issue lies in the conversion, and whether the bolt carrier is lighter than the FA version, but they left the gas ports sized the same? Perhaps the rail has nothing to do with it, but the round count does, and once it breaks in the bolt speed exceeds the functional range?
IF that’s the case then either a weight buffer of some sort, or decreased gas port size, or stronger return spring might help
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Good theory bud. I think you're probably on to something there but i'm not sure if the weight difference on the FA version is significant. I actually think the FA bolt may be lighter due to the cutout for the auto sear but that is PURE speculation.
I think CZ screwed the pooch with spring rates and gas port sizes, period. The "butt dyno" leads me to believe that ALL barrel lengths use the same recoil spring rating as well as the 5.56 and 7.62X39 guns sharing the same.
Anyone that has spent ANY time around varied barrel lengths on any AR15 knows that there is no one size (rate) fits all optimal spring.
I can confirm that the recoil springs in my 9" 7.62x39 and 11" 5.56 are exactly the same, which seems strange.
I'm starting to think that another option we may be able to pursue on our own is drilling out the "0" setting on the gas port. Start small, and work progressively larger. Would have the added benefit of running better with a can too in theory.
Plenty of people have done this already.
My personal opinion is that its a bandaid fix and its pure bullcrap for us to have to physically modify our firearm in order for it to work.
Furthermore, if we DO drill the off setting, we are going to drill for one or two scenarios. Either the gun will function without a can, or will STILL be over gassed WITH a can. We aren't going to be able to have our cake and eat it too.
The gun's need gas port sizing revisions on more than just the gas regulator.
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I love the idea of drilling the 0 setting out, I’ll never use it anyway. My 5.56 11” is definitely over gased with a can on it.
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Anyone else try the BCM extractor spring without the doughnut and can say how long the extractor lasted? I'm trying a few other things mentioned in this thread and others, but if issues continue, I want to try the spring, and failing that, sending it back in.
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I dont think anyone has tested that yet. I believe the only person documenting their experiments with extractor springs was running the donut and the extractor claw sheared off after 400 rounds.
I have a BCM 5 coil spring kit on its way to me and will be testing it without the o-ring.
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I dont think anyone has tested that yet. I believe the only person documenting their experiments with extractor springs was running the donut and the extractor claw sheared off after 400 rounds.
I have a BCM 5 coil spring kit on its way to me and will be testing it without the o-ring.
Yep, that was me, haha. Stupid in hindsight, but hey, it was for science!
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Time to just install the BCM spring only and do some testing. Just doing my own research, it seems that no one actually runs the o-ring.
What's the status on CZ-USA and their handling of this fiasco?
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Time to just install the BCM spring only and do some testing. Just doing my own research, it seems that no one actually runs the o-ring.
What's the status on CZ-USA and their handling of this fiasco?
From what I've been reading on here and reddit, their stance seems to be blame the customer.
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Blame the customer for running commercial, mil-spec ammunition?
CZ is 'not looking good' (Rob Ski voice) at this point in time. The (pistol) is beautiful, the machining and build quality of the actual components are second to none.
It's incredibly sad to me that CZ-USA does not stand behind their product and attempt to find a solution.
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I’m certainly not above bashing a company for bad customer service, but I think we may need to be a bit more patient in this circumstance, only because of the fact the world has been basically shut down for the last 6 months
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I’m certainly not above bashing a company for bad customer service, but I think we may need to be a bit more patient in this circumstance, only because of the fact the world has been basically shut down for the last 6 months
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the company. Those are just first hand reports of what CZ told them is wrong. I'm just repeating what they said the customers were doing wrong.
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I’m certainly not above bashing a company for bad customer service, but I think we may need to be a bit more patient in this circumstance, only because of the fact the world has been basically shut down for the last 6 months
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the company. Those are just first hand reports of what CZ told them is wrong. I'm just repeating what they said the customers were doing wrong.
Jeez, I'd hate to see CZ USA start turning into Ron Cohen's SIG USA (customer service mantra: "shooter error" -- and god forbid, using their customers as beta testers) -- Sig's lousy CS and BS attitude is what (thankfully) turned me off of Sig and got me to start shooting CZ pistols and then rifles!
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I'm giving CZ-USA a chance because I love CZ-UB. I am starting to hate CZ-USA.
Spent the past hour tearing my 9" apart to get it ready to send back.
I've got well over ten grand worth of CZ firearms and it is like they don't even care that you are a loyal customer.
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I'm giving CZ-USA a chance because I love CZ-UB. I am starting to hate CZ-USA.
Spent the past hour tearing my 9" apart to get it ready to send back.
I've got well over ten grand worth of CZ firearms and it is like they don't even care that you are a loyal customer.
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How are you shipping the rifle back, in the og box? The complete lack of spare parts and no news on when they will have any, has left my bren 2 in a not quite shootable state. I have stripped screws on the bottom rail, and want fresh oem ones before I do any more shooting, and they don't have any spares, and I am seriously considering seeing if I is faster to get it sent back , if for nothing else, to get them to get me new screws. This situation is so bleeping dumb.
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I'm giving CZ-USA a chance because I love CZ-UB. I am starting to hate CZ-USA.
Spent the past hour tearing my 9" apart to get it ready to send back.
I've got well over ten grand worth of CZ firearms and it is like they don't even care that you are a loyal customer.
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How are you shipping the rifle back, in the og box? The complete lack of spare parts and no news on when they will have any, has left my bren 2 in a not quite shootable state. I have stripped screws on the bottom rail, and want fresh oem ones before I do any more shooting, and they don't have any spares, and I am seriously considering seeing if I is faster to get it sent back , if for nothing else, to get them to get me new screws. This situation is so bleeping dumb.
I shipped mine back in a Palmetto State Armory Rifle box with a cardboard outer box over that. :P
Measure your screws and go to mcmaster carr and get replacements. Waiting on CZ is going to take eons.
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I'm giving CZ-USA a chance because I love CZ-UB. I am starting to hate CZ-USA.
Spent the past hour tearing my 9" apart to get it ready to send back.
I've got well over ten grand worth of CZ firearms and it is like they don't even care that you are a loyal customer.
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How are you shipping the rifle back, in the og box? The complete lack of spare parts and no news on when they will have any, has left my bren 2 in a not quite shootable state. I have stripped screws on the bottom rail, and want fresh oem ones before I do any more shooting, and they don't have any spares, and I am seriously considering seeing if I is faster to get it sent back , if for nothing else, to get them to get me new screws. This situation is so bleeping dumb.
I shipped mine back in a Palmetto State Armory Rifle box with a cardboard outer box over that. :P
Measure your screws and go to mcmaster carr and get replacements. Waiting on CZ is going to take eons.
You can also get the screws and Nord Lock washers (don’t forget those) at Fastenal.
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I'm giving CZ-USA a chance because I love CZ-UB. I am starting to hate CZ-USA.
Spent the past hour tearing my 9" apart to get it ready to send back.
I've got well over ten grand worth of CZ firearms and it is like they don't even care that you are a loyal customer.
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How are you shipping the rifle back, in the og box? The complete lack of spare parts and no news on when they will have any, has left my bren 2 in a not quite shootable state. I have stripped screws on the bottom rail, and want fresh oem ones before I do any more shooting, and they don't have any spares, and I am seriously considering seeing if I is faster to get it sent back , if for nothing else, to get them to get me new screws. This situation is so bleeping dumb.
I'm gonna ship it in the original box and put that in another box. It sucks cause I had to take everything off of the gun, including my Modlite OKW ($400 flashlight) which was loc-tited and screwed directly to the hand guard.
I never planned on taking this hand guard off of the rifle again. It is too sketchy taking out those screws and putting them back in. This time I only torqued them to 50 in/lbs.
I'm tempted to mark my barrel and gas regulator somehow so I can tell if they replace more than just the broken extractor.
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I'm giving CZ-USA a chance because I love CZ-UB. I am starting to hate CZ-USA.
Spent the past hour tearing my 9" apart to get it ready to send back.
I've got well over ten grand worth of CZ firearms and it is like they don't even care that you are a loyal customer.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
How are you shipping the rifle back, in the og box? The complete lack of spare parts and no news on when they will have any, has left my bren 2 in a not quite shootable state. I have stripped screws on the bottom rail, and want fresh oem ones before I do any more shooting, and they don't have any spares, and I am seriously considering seeing if I is faster to get it sent back , if for nothing else, to get them to get me new screws. This situation is so bleeping dumb.
I'm gonna ship it in the original box and put that in another box. It sucks cause I had to take everything off of the gun, including my Modlite OKW ($400 flashlight) which was loc-tited and screwed directly to the hand guard.
I never planned on taking this hand guard off of the rifle again. It is too sketchy taking out those screws and putting them back in. This time I only torqued them to 50 in/lbs.
I'm tempted to mark my barrel and gas regulator somehow so I can tell if they replace more than just the broken extractor.
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I have no clue if CZ is reading these forums...
I would put some inconspicuous paint pen marks somewhere.
CZ said they "cleaned gas port and piston". They're full of bleep as my gun came back just as dirty as when it left. They also never pulled my barrel as my gun came back with the handguard screws still witness marked as I had left them.
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Start sending complaints to CZ in Czech Republic. They probably don't know CZ USA is destroying their reputation.
Anyone have an email for CZ Czech?
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Please let him know we can likely get a group buy together and buy quite a few at one time. ^
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I've noticed at least one YouTube video reviewing the Bren 2 which just mentioned "the 7.62 models don't work" so maybe that would help to bring this to CZ's attention. I'm sure they wouldn't like to see reputational damage. It's in this video, although I can't find the right time offset and it was only a flippant off hand comment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG3daxzzA5Q
I own a 7.62 11", but due to COVID I haven't shot it yet. My range time has been limited, so I've focused on my handguns and cowboy action training only. Feeling like I should exercise caution until more is learned...
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Wow - yeah, word is getting around that the Bren 2S (Ms) in 7.62x39 is unreliable (@ 13:30 mark). CZ-USA is going to be in a world of hurt if they don't actually solve this problem, will definitely affect future sales. They can't sit here and call the customer wrong forever. I've messaged CZUB today about this, again, to let them know that CZ-USA is going to really harm their reputation as a company for this issue.
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Seems like roasting a company on social media or YouTube is the fastest way to elicit a response these days. Most companies won't even respond to individual customers anymore until you call them out on social media.
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It is very sad that it comes down to that for sure.
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Better Business Bureau. Seriously, make a complaint with the BBB and you'll have someone from the company talking to you within a few days.
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Better Business Bureau. Seriously, make a complaint with the BBB and you'll have someone from the company talking to you within a few days.
I just filed a complaint with the BBB of Greater Kansas City.
I encourage others to do the same. Took me about 5 minutes.
Let's go, boys!
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There might be something to that. They do have filed responses to complaints (example regarding welded trigger packs):
https://www.bbb.org/us/ks/kansas-city/profile/gun-dealers/cz-usa-0674-99136021/complaints
It probably isn't a good idea for someone who hasn't directly experienced the problem to file a complaint. It looks like you can attach documentation to your complaint.
Since these guns are designed and built overseas, to what extent would their KC import office be able to actually help?
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There might be something to that. They do have filed responses to complaints (example regarding welded trigger packs):
https://www.bbb.org/us/ks/kansas-city/profile/gun-dealers/cz-usa-0674-99136021/complaints
It probably isn't a good idea for someone who hasn't directly experienced the problem to file a complaint. It looks like you can attach documentation to your complaint.
Since these guns are designed and built overseas, to what extent would their KC import office be able to actually help?
Good call on people only filing reports who have had negative experiences.
They are designed and manufactured overseas, but CZ-USA sells and supports them.
They should be able to send me an extractor, I don't see what the problem is.
I'm not asking much of the US office other than to replace a $10 broken part on a $1700 gun.
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I think I'd jump straight to demanding a replacement gas cylinder with reduced-size ports.
You're supposed to be able to trust the competence and integrity of a gun manufacturer's representative in your country. You're supposed to be able to send a faulty firearm back for warranty work and see it returned with the problem solved and perhaps even an explanation as to what was wrong and what they changed to fix it.
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Have there been other recent problems with CZ support and reliability? I'm not saying anything you're saying is incorrect, this is just an ask for information. It impacts the degree to which I'd invest my time and money in their products.
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Have there been other recent problems with CZ support and reliability? I'm not saying anything you're saying is incorrect, this is just an ask for information. It impacts the degree to which I'd invest my time and money in their products.
I own quite a few CZ products and I've luckily never had to contact support since CZ products are generally THAT good. They run like tanks. However, I recently ordered some replacement parts for my Bren 805 that weren't finished properly and even broken. I contacted support and was basically told, "They're all like that and there won't be any more." Now, I know the 805 is discontinued, but still. There must be thousands of them out there. Parts are done within 2 years of selling the last ones? I dunno if I'm old fashioned, but I feel like I should be able to repair a $1,300 product I purchased for a few years at least. Other than that, I've loved CZ. I don't know...maybe their support has always been like this, but I didn't know because I've never had to use it.
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^As much as I love the Bren 2, the ergonomics, light handling, modularity w/ optics, accuracy and (for me, thus far) reliability, I can’t use it as a go to, first tier shtf weapon because it has no parts or service back up from CZ, even after @ 2 years of imports into the USA. Inexcusable.
I can’t keep track of the people having failures to extract / eject issues with the Bren 2, but it seems that all have 7.62x39 guns and (most) have fitted aftermarket hand guards and / or rail plates... may have to do a poll, though I’m no inter web genus....
A thread Poll may be a good sticky. Not to bleep on Bren 762 sales but IF its an issue it needs resolving- A poll edit for participants? Or add incremental round counts for those who make the next marks. (worked fine until it hit 2500 and handgaurd was swapped at x round count) As of now my 5.56 is is fine, awaiting a 10.8" HBI rail. I do/did have plans for the 762 when kits come along.
This sorta sucks taking away the modularity selling point if this is a trend or if its caused by something. It should be able to eat common steel 762 or thats just lame IMHO.
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As a x39 Bren 2 owner I support this thread. Had occasional FTEs within the first few mags. Had to ship it back for warranty repair. CZ-USA adjusted my extractor spring (or so I'm told). Still have some issues and rounds don't eject consistently.
CZ y u do dis? I thought you love us. </3
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^As much as I love the Bren 2, the ergonomics, light handling, modularity w/ optics, accuracy and (for me, thus far) reliability, I can’t use it as a go to, first tier shtf weapon because it has no parts or service back up from CZ, even after @ 2 years of imports into the USA. Inexcusable.
I can’t keep track of the people having failures to extract / eject issues with the Bren 2, but it seems that all have 7.62x39 guns and (most) have fitted aftermarket hand guards and / or rail plates... may have to do a poll, though I’m no inter web genus....
A thread Poll may be a good sticky. Not to bleep on Bren 762 sales but IF its an issue it needs resolving- A poll edit for participants? Or add incremental round counts for those who make the next marks. (worked fine until it hit 2500 and handgaurd was swapped at x round count) As of now my 5.56 is is fine, awaiting a 10.8" HBI rail. I do/did have plans for the 762 when kits come along.
This sorta sucks taking away the modularity selling point if this is a trend or if its caused by something. It should be able to eat common steel 762 or thats just lame IMHO.
I wouldn't put much stake in conversion kits ever coming out. Bren 2 is at 2 years now and no kits, not even replacement parts. I've been burned so many times buying guns with the promise of conversion kits that I now buy guns based on the assumption it will always be the caliber I bought it in. The Bren 2: no kits. 805 Bren: no kits. Beretta ARX: no kits. Tavor X95: no kits. The only gun I have that actually has kits available is my Robinson XCR. I really really hope CZ makes me eat my hat though....but I remain pessimistic....
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Thats disappointing especially with the tolerable cost of 762 these days vs 556
How much of a huge deal do you think it would be to get a barrel made up for after market? Group buy with proof research or something. I'd be in. Of course the reliability would need resolved first. I can have pipe dreams anyway.
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Thats disappointing especially with the tolerable cost of 762 these days vs 556
How much of a huge deal do you think it would be to get a barrel made up for after market? Group buy with proof research or something. I'd be in. Of course the reliability would need resolved first. I can have pipe dreams anyway.
yeah. It happens every time with me. 1. Company announces new rifle. 2. Company states it's multi-caliber. 3. Company states conversion kits will be available. 4. Years pass by with no conversions. 5. I get sad. 6. I curse my naiveté. 7. Rinse and repeat.
On a serious note.... the few times companies have actually had conversion kits for their guns, they are usually prohibitively expensive to the point where a whole new rifle is only a little bit more. I do think Robinson did it right though, they have a ton of conversions and their conversions are only like $600. Initial cost of the rifle is pretty high though... Like I said, I really want CZ to make me wrong.
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It would be nice but at this point I’d be happy just to be able to get some parts. Depending on the election, we may never see any. I jumped on the band wagon hard even dumped a couple of AR’s to buy a couple more Bren’s than I already had plus all the money spent on aftermarket stuff to get it where it should be to begin with. Same as I had to do with all the CZ pistols I replaced all my Glocks with.
Each month that goes by with no support and hearing of all the issues people are having with their guns and basically a middle finger attitude from CZ customer service I’m starting to really regret getting into the platform. At this point I wish I had just stayed with AR’s and Glocks.
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762 Users with good or bad issues please vote in the poll below link
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=112000.0
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I've been talking to CZUB on Facebook. I made them aware of the issue, reportedly, they have gotten in touch with CZ-USA.
CZUB has responded;
We're trying our best to solve this. We always listen to our customers.
Thanks again for your message and take care!
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TIM @ Military Arms Channel is going to run a test on their Bren 2Ms to see if they can replicate the failures, will be available tomorrow.
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I only put 120 rounds through my 11” 7.62 Bren 2s, and 0 failures, but I will say when shooting it felt overgassed to me
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That is good news, what ammo ^
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I only put 120 rounds through my 11” 7.62 Bren 2s, and 0 failures, but I will say when shooting it felt overgassed to me
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Are you getting dings on the front of your ejection port due to the cases bouncing off the front? Even when shouldered and ads, I notice cases ejecting at 12:30 to 2 o'clock.
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I only put 120 rounds through my 11” 7.62 Bren 2s, and 0 failures, but I will say when shooting it felt overgassed to me
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Are you getting dings on the front of your ejection port due to the cases bouncing off the front? Even when shouldered and ads, I notice cases ejecting at 12:30 to 2 o'clock.
No dings, but I was running brass case so I will watch for that after next trip, I plan to run a few hundred various steel case through. It was Geco Target, I’ll post on the other topic afterwards also, with round count and results
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I only put 120 rounds through my 11” 7.62 Bren 2s, and 0 failures, but I will say when shooting it felt overgassed to me
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Are you getting dings on the front of your ejection port due to the cases bouncing off the front? Even when shouldered and ads, I notice cases ejecting at 12:30 to 2 o'clock.
No dings, but I was running brass case so I will watch for that after next trip, I plan to run a few hundred various steel case through. It was Geco Target, I’ll post on the other topic afterwards also, with round count and results
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run a few hundred rounds of steel cased and get back to us :)
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Hey guys, I had a 9" Bren 2s in 7.62x39 that I eventually sold to fund a B&T APC 223, which I'm glad I did. Anyway, the Bren 2s never had any reliability issues at all and all ejection patterns were ejecting and landing in the same spot (no erratic ejection patterns). I missed the Bren 2s so bad I purchased another Bren 2s in 7.62x39 but in 11". I haven't run any ammo through it yet but all I have is Wolf polyformance and it worked great through my 9". I think this might be a Bren 2Ms issue with improper quality control from the US because the Bren 2s hasn't any any issues what so ever as long as you don't mess with the torque specs and mlok rails. I easily put 500 rounds through my old 9" bren 2s prior to selling it.
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Of probable interest. This is from Reddit and Zach is the Marketing Communications Manager. CZ-USA is definitely working on determining what problems(s), if any, there may be but it's hard when the sample size is so low. If you have issues send your gun in :) Just FYI
ZachFromCZUSA
12 points
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5 hours ago
Good morning, this is Zach from CZ-USA. To fill folks in on the current status on our end, we're seeing internet chatter on this topic but very few guns actually coming back to us for inspection/repair. With that, our sample size is incredibly small as we try to ascertain what may be causing issues for these folks.
Because we're talking individual guns, the data we're looking at is all over the place. One gun had a chamber absolutely coated in lacquer and once cleaned it ran fine with the ammo we have on hand for testing (PMC Bronze).
What I'd ask for is your help. We need to inspect/diagnose any of the guns that are having issues to identify the root cause of those issues. There are a number of gas selectors, port sizes and pistons over the line of variants, and the 7.62x39 Bren 2 was designed around the Russian round, for which our commercial stuff is a decent facsimile of, but not always the same. Testing in the Czech Republic is done with S&B, since that is what they have there. Our commercial ammo selection is much more broad, except in a pandemic/election year where availability in the quantities we require is spotty at best.
So we ask that any folks with issues get in touch with us to get an RMA and a call tag, that way we can document the specifics of their gun, ammo and modifications to find the common theme and its solution.
Again, we've gotten very few Bren 2s back to our gunsmiths, so please call us at 800-955-4486 to get a call tag headed your way.
In general, this hit us at a rough time as we transition our warehouse and customer systems to a new platform, making our functionality a bit rough for the last week, with things getting better by the day.
I'm not typically a Redditor, but I'll check back here when I can. About to go under the knife, but should be able to revisit this later today.
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
Uh...
Except they need to actually come up with a solution for the "small sample size" of guns that are having issues. I wrote a dissertation to CZ when I sent in my rifle and I got back a rifle that is still failing. They fluffed me off.
I have the letter I wrote on my work computer. I'm going to post it here.
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
Uh...
Except they need to actually come up with a solution for the "small sample size" of guns that are having issues. I wrote a dissertation to CZ when I sent in my rifle and I got back a rifle that is still failing. They fluffed me off.
I have the letter I wrote on my work computer. I'm going to post it here.
I say that only because Tim @ MAC got involved, he claimed that a few Bren 2 orders at Copper Custom have been canceled over this, CZ-USA is now engaged and willing to actually solve the problem ::). I've had a great overall experience with the Social Media team at CZUB, they've been very professional and seem to have taken our concerns seriously from the start.
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
Uh...
Except they need to actually come up with a solution for the "small sample size" of guns that are having issues. I wrote a dissertation to CZ when I sent in my rifle and I got back a rifle that is still failing. They fluffed me off.
I have the letter I wrote on my work computer. I'm going to post it here.
Maybe your dissertation wasn't to doctoral standards lol :D
I'm only joking but I'm glad they've expressed interest in this issue whatever it may be.
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
Uh...
Except they need to actually come up with a solution for the "small sample size" of guns that are having issues. I wrote a dissertation to CZ when I sent in my rifle and I got back a rifle that is still failing. They fluffed me off.
I have the letter I wrote on my work computer. I'm going to post it here.
Maybe your dissertation wasn't to doctoral standards lol :D
I'm only joking but I'm glad they've expressed interest in this issue whatever it may be.
That's probably the case lol. I only have an AA and i'm just a dumb cop. :P
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Nice to see a response finally, but still extremely upset. I sent an email last week about my most recent range trip from which I had received my Bren back from its 2nd trip to CZ. That was the trip I had shot 380 rounds with 9+ malfunctions.
I am curious as to if my Bren is the one they are talking about with the lacquer..... If they are still blowing that smoke I would love to call them on their BS as my gun has malfunctioned on every type of ammo, with me purposely using only poly coated last range trip.
I guess i'll have to sign up on reddit to get a response...
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Nice to see a response finally, but still extremely upset. I sent an email last week about my most recent range trip from which I had received my Bren back from its 2nd trip to CZ. That was the trip I had shot 380 rounds with 9+ malfunctions.
I am curious as to if my Bren is the one they are talking about with the lacquer..... If they are still blowing that smoke I would love to call them on their BS as my gun has malfunctioned on every type of ammo, with me purposely using only poly coated last range trip.
I guess i'll have to sign up on reddit to get a response...
The lacquer statement is what has me most perplexed about al of this. Lacquer burns off, I haven’t seen it coat the inside of a chamber before
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
Uh...
Except they need to actually come up with a solution for the "small sample size" of guns that are having issues. I wrote a dissertation to CZ when I sent in my rifle and I got back a rifle that is still failing. They fluffed me off.
I have the letter I wrote on my work computer. I'm going to post it here.
Maybe your dissertation wasn't to doctoral standards lol :D
I'm only joking but I'm glad they've expressed interest in this issue whatever it may be.
That's probably the case lol. I only have an AA and i'm just a dumb cop. :P
lol lol I only have an AA too my friend and thank you so much for your service in these crazy times! A true red, white & blue American feels the same way brother! You are our heroes!
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To anyone who’s sent a Bren back to CZ: are you sending it with HBI’s handguard or with the OEM installed? Switching back to OEM seemed to fix my problem (which of course revived the old problem of the OEM rail being 1/5 the size it should’ve been). After getting HBI’s new 10” handguard recently, I’ve gotten intermittent FTE’s (like 3x in 250 rounds). Not as bad as when I first installed the 7” HBI handguard, but also not close to the 700 rounds without a failure I put through the gun completely stock...
Also, how does the barrel side of everyone’s ejection port look? Granted my Bren has somewhere in the range of 1200-1500 rounds through it now, but my casings are going to town on the edge of it: https://imgur.com/a/ikXxBA8
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To anyone who’s sent a Bren back to CZ: are you sending it with HBI’s handguard or with the OEM installed? Switching back to OEM seemed to fix my problem (which of course revived the old problem of the OEM rail being 1/5 the size it should’ve been). After getting HBI’s new 10” handguard recently, I’ve gotten intermittent FTE’s (like 3x in 250 rounds). Not as bad as when I first installed the 7” HBI handguard, but also not close to the 700 rounds without a failure I put through the gun completely stock...
Also, how does the barrel side of everyone’s ejection port look? Granted my Bren has somewhere in the range of 1200-1500 rounds through it now, but my casings are going to town on the edge of it: https://imgur.com/a/ikXxBA8
600ish rounds in and my ejection port looks exactly the same.
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Not good fellas, took mine back out this afternoon, 8 FTE's in around 120 rounds. It's going back to CZ. I have some videos I'll post on the ARFCOM Bren 2 thread.
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I noticed that on Reddit as well.
It makes me feel more 'at ease' knowing that CZ-USA is unconditionally behind us now. They won't simply look the firearm over, wipe down the gas system, and send it back on its way.
Uh...
Except they need to actually come up with a solution for the "small sample size" of guns that are having issues. I wrote a dissertation to CZ when I sent in my rifle and I got back a rifle that is still failing. They fluffed me off.
I have the letter I wrote on my work computer. I'm going to post it here.
Maybe your dissertation wasn't to doctoral standards lol :D
I'm only joking but I'm glad they've expressed interest in this issue whatever it may be.
That's probably the case lol. I only have an AA and i'm just a dumb cop. :P
lol lol I only have an AA too my friend and thank you so much for your service in these crazy times! A true red, white & blue American feels the same way brother! You are our heroes!
No, thank you for your support.
I sent mine back with the HBI handguard attached. I made sure that I notated that in my included letter.
For anyone that wants to read it, here it is:
"Equipment on the rifle:
HBI Handguard
ACR brace setup W/ Dan Haga adapter
Round count:
Five thousand rounds of mixed Tula and Wolf 122 grain FULL METAL JACKET
100 rounds Suppressed via Dead Air Sandman K at approximately 4300 rounds in.
Lube used-ALG Go Juice/Synthetic Motor Oil.
Multiple failures to eject. Classic stove pipe malfunction with the case mouth poking out of the ejection port. The rim of the case is stuck between the bolt and the chamber face. The rifle will also have failures to eject where the case turns around 180 degrees and the case mouth is stuck between the bolt face with the rim being stuck by the chamber mouth on the side of the ejection port.
I’ve also had failures to extract on the last round in the magazine where the case fails to clear the ejection port and ends up floating in the receiver after the bolt locks back. These malfunctions happen with my black, factory magazines as well as the clear factory magazines. There is no repeatable nature to the malfunction. It will happen with a full mag, partially loaded magazine or an almost empty or empty magazine.
The factory clear magazines are also cracking at the feed lips. I side lined those after I started having failures to eject thinking that perhaps this was contributing. The malfunctions persisted with brand new and used black factory magazines.
Also, I wanted to point out an issue that I had with the HBI handguard. When the handguard retaining bolts are torqued over 45 inch lbs using a wheeler calibrated fat wrench, the bolt will bind. It will NOT go into the chamber smoothly. It requires excessive force to retract it as well. It’s a far cry from the SUPER smooth bolt movement. I ended up getting new Nordlock washers from HBI and installed Loctite 2422 on the degreased bolts. The screws seem to be holding but I haven’t put enough rounds through the gun to make a good determination as it’s been malfunctioning and ive held off from shooting it until I could return it to you guys and gals. I don’t know if this has any contributing effect on the feed cycle. I’m pretty sure it shouldn’t affect headspace but you guys are the pros so I defer to you. I just wanted to fully disclose everything done to the gun so that we can get to the bottom of the issue. Do not hesitate to reach out to me if you have any questions about anything. I can be reached via phone or email. I can also provide the photos and video that ive taken over the past few months.
Thank you everyone. Stay safe and healthy.
Sincerely,"
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Hey guys,
Quick update on my situation. Currently have a gun with a broken extractor, and CZ-USA is unable to guarantee me that they can replace the part, and have even accused me of making modifications to the gun that would have caused this to happen. Not sure if they are reading these forums or what.
I am not sending the gun back. I am so mad at CZ-USA right now.
I called my buddy who works for CZ UB and he is sending me an extractor with the factory folding stocks that should be arriving this week or next.
At this rate, importing the part myself will solve the problem faster than CZ-USA will.
I can't believe I have a personal connection that is more reliable than CZ-USA's entire warranty department.
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Hey guys,
Quick update on my situation. Currently have a gun with a broken extractor, and CZ-USA is unable to guarantee me that they can replace the part, and have even accused me of making modifications to the gun that would have caused this to happen. Not sure if they are reading these forums or what.
I am not sending the gun back. I am so mad at CZ-USA right now.
I called my buddy who works for CZ UB and he is sending me an extractor with the factory folding stocks that should be arriving this week or next.
At this rate, importing the part myself will solve the problem faster than CZ-USA will.
I can't believe I have a personal connection that is more reliable than CZ-USA's entire warranty department.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I think the reason CZusa is not fixing these guns is because they have no parts. After 2 years of importing the Bren 2 to the US, this is simply inexcusable.
I was thinking about getting a Bren BR when they came out, but, nah.
My next rifle is going to be a Robinson Armaments xcr -- they actually have spare parts for their rifles and they don't cost all that much more than a Bren, with multiple calibers and configurations.
CZ USA has really dropped the ball here.
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Hey guys,
Quick update on my situation. Currently have a gun with a broken extractor, and CZ-USA is unable to guarantee me that they can replace the part, and have even accused me of making modifications to the gun that would have caused this to happen. Not sure if they are reading these forums or what.
I am not sending the gun back. I am so mad at CZ-USA right now.
I called my buddy who works for CZ UB and he is sending me an extractor with the factory folding stocks that should be arriving this week or next.
At this rate, importing the part myself will solve the problem faster than CZ-USA will.
I can't believe I have a personal connection that is more reliable than CZ-USA's entire warranty department.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I think the reason CZusa is not fixing these guns is because they have no parts. After 2 years of importing the Bren 2 to the US, this is simply inexcusable.
I was thinking about getting a Bren BR when they came out, but, nah.
My next rifle is going to be a Robinson Armaments xcr -- they actually have spare parts for their rifles and they don't cost all that much more than a Bren, with multiple calibers and configurations.
CZ USA has really dropped the ball here.
What I wanna know is why am I able to order parts from Europe with zero issues, but CZ-USA can't do the same? It isn't like CZ UB doesn't have them to supply CZ-USA.
It baffles me that they do not have (or are apparently unwilling to get) parts for these guns. It is like importing a car and selling it without having brake pads or clutches available.
CZ-USA is laughably incompetent. I'll likely be selling my 7.62x39 Bren 2, keeping my 5.56, and then going and buying a PWS 7.62x39 upper or something. At least those guns work and have parts support.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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Hey guys,
Quick update on my situation. Currently have a gun with a broken extractor, and CZ-USA is unable to guarantee me that they can replace the part, and have even accused me of making modifications to the gun that would have caused this to happen. Not sure if they are reading these forums or what.
I am not sending the gun back. I am so mad at CZ-USA right now.
I called my buddy who works for CZ UB and he is sending me an extractor with the factory folding stocks that should be arriving this week or next.
At this rate, importing the part myself will solve the problem faster than CZ-USA will.
I can't believe I have a personal connection that is more reliable than CZ-USA's entire warranty department.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Is there a way for anyone that doesn't have your contact to get spare parts? Whats the issue with just ordering parts from overseas in the first place?
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I wish I could share more info about the guy I go through but it becomes really complicated, and I don't want him or his shop to get in trouble with CZ.
I'd be more concerned about getting involved with Czech or U.S. customs than CZ. I know on the U.S. end it would be a form 6 application, I have no idea about the Czech end of it.
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I wish I could share more info about the guy I go through but it becomes really complicated, and I don't want him or his shop to get in trouble with CZ.
I'd be more concerned about getting involved with Czech or U.S. customs than CZ. I know on the U.S. end it would be a form 6 application, I have no idea about the Czech end of it.
I think you're OK as long as the parts cost $100 or less.
There are several Czech vendors that ship Vz58 parts to the US, maybe they're getting into the Bren 2 parts export business as well.
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Hey guys,
Quick update on my situation. Currently have a gun with a broken extractor, and CZ-USA is unable to guarantee me that they can replace the part, and have even accused me of making modifications to the gun that would have caused this to happen. Not sure if they are reading these forums or what.
I am not sending the gun back. I am so mad at CZ-USA right now.
I called my buddy who works for CZ UB and he is sending me an extractor with the factory folding stocks that should be arriving this week or next.
At this rate, importing the part myself will solve the problem faster than CZ-USA will.
I can't believe I have a personal connection that is more reliable than CZ-USA's entire warranty department.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Is there a way for anyone that doesn't have your contact to get spare parts? Whats the issue with just ordering parts from overseas in the first place?
CZ UB won't ship to the US, period. Anything from them has to come in through CZ-USA.
I wish I could share more info about the guy I go through but it becomes really complicated, and I don't want him or his shop to get in trouble with CZ.
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Thats fair enough. Thank you for letting me know! Surprisingly I thought I was getting into a really good platform but its kind of scaring me at this point. I dont like rifles I feel like I cant shoot. Here I was concerned about not being able to get a barrel for this thing when its time to change one out but instead this thing may be a 5000rd and move to the next platform sorta gun. Not very confidence inspiring. I read on here in another thread I think and someone tried getting some parts for an 805 and they said kick rocks. That rifle isn't that old and they're gonna just stop making parts for it? thats wild to me. The AR world has spoiled me in that when something wears out its not HOW am i gonna get parts it more of what brand is best because of all the options.
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Thats fair enough. Thank you for letting me know! Surprisingly I thought I was getting into a really good platform but its kind of scaring me at this point. I dont like rifles I feel like I cant shoot. Here I was concerned about not being able to get a barrel for this thing when its time to change one out but instead this thing may be a 5000rd and move to the next platform sorta gun. Not very confidence inspiring. I read on here in another thread I think and someone tried getting some parts for an 805 and they said kick rocks. That rifle isn't that old and they're gonna just stop making parts for it? thats wild to me. The AR world has spoiled me in that when something wears out its not HOW am i gonna get parts it more of what brand is best because of all the options.
That was me with the 805 parts. Worse thing is, the parts were un-finished and in bad shape. They offered to refund me, but I decided to keep them because there is no other option. So, no parts for the 805. Now, no parts for the Bren 2... It's seems the VZ58 is the only CZ rifle you can get parts for... it's really disheartening. I want CZ to succeed so badly....but this isn't how you do it....
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Hey guys,
Quick update on my situation. Currently have a gun with a broken extractor, and CZ-USA is unable to guarantee me that they can replace the part, and have even accused me of making modifications to the gun that would have caused this to happen. Not sure if they are reading these forums or what.
I am not sending the gun back. I am so mad at CZ-USA right now.
I called my buddy who works for CZ UB and he is sending me an extractor with the factory folding stocks that should be arriving this week or next.
At this rate, importing the part myself will solve the problem faster than CZ-USA will.
I can't believe I have a personal connection that is more reliable than CZ-USA's entire warranty department.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Is there a way for anyone that doesn't have your contact to get spare parts? Whats the issue with just ordering parts from overseas in the first place?
CZ UB won't ship to the US, period. Anything from them has to come in through CZ-USA.
I wish I could share more info about the guy I go through but it becomes really complicated, and I don't want him or his shop to get in trouble with CZ.
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Thats fair enough. Thank you for letting me know! Surprisingly I thought I was getting into a really good platform but its kind of scaring me at this point. I dont like rifles I feel like I cant shoot. Here I was concerned about not being able to get a barrel for this thing when its time to change one out but instead this thing may be a 5000rd and move to the next platform sorta gun. Not very confidence inspiring. I read on here in another thread I think and someone tried getting some parts for an 805 and they said kick rocks. That rifle isn't that old and they're gonna just stop making parts for it? thats wild to me. The AR world has spoiled me in that when something wears out its not HOW am i gonna get parts it more of what brand is best because of all the options.
I am going to try to get a list of prices for various Bren 2 parts. Extractors are $40 USD, I know because I just bought one.
Considering getting an EU gas regulator too and seeing if they are any different.
As for barrels, I'll ask, I'm pretty sure he will be able to get them but I wonder how much $$$ they are.
Plus, who knows if the EU barrels are the same. Ugh. What a mess.
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Right? This is just crazy to me. WHY are parts clearly, LITERALLY available, but CZ USA wont stock them. Does anybody know the actual number of Bren 2s/MS in the US? I mean are these things that rare that they dont find the need at all for parts? I mean aren't these issued to a military over there????? How is it not the easiest thing in the world to provide a few parts for these?
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That was me with the 805 parts. Worse thing is, the parts were un-finished and in bad shape. They offered to refund me, but I decided to keep them because there is no other option. So, no parts for the 805. Now, no parts for the Bren 2... It's seems the VZ58 is the only CZ rifle you can get parts for... it's really disheartening. I want CZ to succeed so badly....but this isn't how you do it....
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I really do not understand how this is a thing? No offense to anyone but is the SCAR part ordeal any better haha?
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That was me with the 805 parts. Worse thing is, the parts were un-finished and in bad shape. They offered to refund me, but I decided to keep them because there is no other option. So, no parts for the 805. Now, no parts for the Bren 2... It's seems the VZ58 is the only CZ rifle you can get parts for... it's really disheartening. I want CZ to succeed so badly....but this isn't how you do it....
I really do not understand how this is a thing? No offense to anyone but is the SCAR part ordeal any better haha?
[/quote]You'll face the same problem trying to get a barrel for a SCAR.
CZ-USA stocks extractors for Scorpions, TSO's, lots of guns. I don't know why they are so bad about having parts in the country for the Bren guns.
It really pisses me off that I am able to do more ON MY OWN, than the company that actually imported the firearm to this country is willing to do. Blows my mind.
I feel bad for people who are being unwillingly tied to CZ-USA and don't have any contacts over in Europe to help them out.
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Guys,
Lets extinguish the torches and put away the pitch forks for a few minutes.
CZ is probably taxed completely to its limit. They're trying to fulfill international military orders, secure new contracts and continue making money.
Their production capacity is probably not ready for US demand. Or, they have cordoned off 80% of their production capacity for Bren 2 military contracts and they never anticipated how popular this weapon would be in the US.
All of this is pure speculation but we need to give them time. How much time? I dont know.
As someone else mentioned, the situation is dire when it comes to Scar parts. That darned gun has been around on the commercial market for what, twelve years now? Longer?
I fully support anyone who doesn't want to put up with this. AR15's have spoiled me as for the most part, everything that I need and want is available and tons of product is being made on a daily basis.
While that IS the case for the Bren, the civilian component of the equation is not what we want but its probably what CZ needs to be doing to produce the profits that they desire.
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Guys,
Lets extinguish the torches and put away the pitch forks for a few minutes.
CZ is probably taxed completely to its limit. They're trying to fulfill international military orders, secure new contracts and continue making money.
Their production capacity is probably not ready for US demand. Or, they have cordoned off 80% of their production capacity for Bren 2 military contracts and they never anticipated how popular this weapon would be in the US.
All of this is pure speculation but we need to give them time. How much time? I dont know.
As someone else mentioned, the situation is dire when it comes to Scar parts. That darned gun has been around on the commercial market for what, twelve years now? Longer?
I fully support anyone who doesn't want to put up with this. AR15's have spoiled me as for the most part, everything that I need and want is available and tons of product is being made on a daily basis.
While that IS the case for the Bren, the civilian component of the equation is not what we want but its probably what CZ needs to be doing to produce the profits that they desire.
Good points.
Sorry, I'm pretty heated with them at the moment, but you're absolutely right.
Hopefully they get their act together soon, I am pulling for them to succeed.
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Guys,
Lets extinguish the torches and put away the pitch forks for a few minutes.
CZ is probably taxed completely to its limit. They're trying to fulfill international military orders, secure new contracts and continue making money.
Their production capacity is probably not ready for US demand. Or, they have cordoned off 80% of their production capacity for Bren 2 military contracts and they never anticipated how popular this weapon would be in the US.
All of this is pure speculation but we need to give them time. How much time? I dont know.
As someone else mentioned, the situation is dire when it comes to Scar parts. That darned gun has been around on the commercial market for what, twelve years now? Longer?
I fully support anyone who doesn't want to put up with this. AR15's have spoiled me as for the most part, everything that I need and want is available and tons of product is being made on a daily basis.
While that IS the case for the Bren, the civilian component of the equation is not what we want but its probably what CZ needs to be doing to produce the profits that they desire.
I can agree with that. Just shocked after just a couple years they stop producing parts for the 805. What are those people supposed to do just throw the thing away when an ejector wears out? thats just crazy to me. Hopefully with this rifle being a pretty big military contract they'll keep making parts for a good long time because military's dont change rifles all that often.
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I don't know about the 805 parts. Who else beside the Czech military had a contract for those? Czech Army is completely abandoning it for the Bren 2...
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So they dumped the 805 for the Bren 2 in just a few years? Thats wild. Back to issues though. Do many people have issues with the 11" and 14" models in 7.62? Far as i've read people with the 5.56 model really dont have any of these issues.
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I think I saw a post over at arfcom about a 5.56 with issues. I've definitely seen reports of issues with all barrel lengths in 7.62x39.
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So they dumped the 805 for the Bren 2 in just a few years? Thats wild. Back to issues though. Do many people have issues with the 11" and 14" models in 7.62? Far as i've read people with the 5.56 model really dont have any of these issues.
I'm glad I got rid of my 805, then. It saddens me to see CZ going the way of SIG with product support. Releasing a platform then just completely dumping support for it when a new model comes out. I hope they figure something out because they're my favorite firearm company and I'd hate to see their reputation dwindle. Makes me nervous for if something breaks on my 550 Safari Magnum since they're discontinuing those. I'd have a heavy, expensive paperweight.
I agree with Magsz though. With the pandemic going on and lack of supply on hand I think there is a legitimate excuse.
Either way it still makes me nervous, though. I don't think there is a gun I've wanted more than the Bren 2 Battle Rifle and I am eagerly awaiting its release. I would be devastated to get that gun and it run like crap.
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In all fairness, the 805 looks to have been the result of a bureaucratic rush from prototype to production. It was apparently dimensionally speced to have a polymer receiver, but used aluminum to make a functioning prototype. That prototype was then ordered into production with the aluminum receiver, with no dimensional changes, despite the massive increase in weight over what was originally intended.
The Bren 2 is the result of a former Czech specops guy getting directly involved in development and apparently also the bureaucracy. The Bren 2's rapid adoption and replacement of the 805 so soon after the 805 was adopted is almost unprecedented.
I don't think this is a SIG type issue at all. I think the 805 was seen by influential people in Czech decision making as a hasty bad decision and was replaced with the Bren 2. I don't think we'll see the Bren 2 replaced anytime soon. The Bren 2 already has multiple significant international contracts outside the Czech Army, while I don't believe the 805 ever did.
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In all fairness, the 805 looks to have been the result of a bureaucratic rush from prototype to production. It was apparently dimensionally speced to have a polymer receiver, but used aluminum to make a functioning prototype. That prototype was then ordered into production with the aluminum receiver, with no dimensional changes, despite the massive increase in weight over what was originally intended.
The Bren 2 is the result of a former Czech specops guy getting directly involved in development and apparently also the bureaucracy. The Bren 2's rapid adoption and replacement of the 805 so soon after the 805 was adopted is almost unprecedented.
I don't think this is a SIG type issue at all. I think the 805 was seen by influential people in Czech decision making as a hasty bad decision and was replaced with the Bren 2. I don't think we'll see the Bren 2 replaced anytime soon. The Bren 2 already has multiple significant international contracts outside the Czech Army, while I don't believe the 805 ever did.
Thanks for this Aries144. This gives me a bit more confidence.
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All I know is that it's a sad day when a WASR-10 is more reliable than a gun costing almost three times as much. CZ sure dropped the ball on this one. :/
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Tried running another 90 rounds through my 14” MS with the 10” HBI handguard. Ran 3 types of steel case—Tula, Red Army Standard, and lacquer Wolf Military classic. Stovepipes with all of them. The lacquer was the worst for sure—4x stovepipes in one mag!
Paid attention to ejection patterns and it was like 90% of casings being rocketed out at 1-2 o’clock (as far forward as possible basically) with the other 10% coming out almost like they were under gassed (4 o’clock with cases falling only a foot or so away).
About ready to send this thing to CZ.
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Tried running another 90 rounds through my 14” MS with the 10” HBI handguard. Ran 3 types of steel case—Tula, Red Army Standard, and lacquer Wolf Military classic. Stovepipes with all of them. The lacquer was the worst for sure—4x stovepipes in one mag!
Paid attention to ejection patterns and it was like 90% of casings being rocketed out at 1-2 o’clock (as far forward as possible basically) with the other 10% coming out almost like they were under gassed (4 o’clock with cases falling only a foot or so away).
About ready to send this thing to CZ.
If it looked like it ejected in slow motion on those 4 o’clock ones, I believe they bounced off the front of the ejection port. That’s exactly what happens with mine
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If it looked like it ejected in slow motion on those 4 o’clock ones, I believe they bounced off the front of the ejection port. That’s exactly what happens with mine
That makes perfect sense, I bet that’s it. I was by myself today but I’ve got a friend coming with me to the range on Thursday who I’m gonna have get video and slo-mo footage.
Do you think overgassing is the root of the problem?
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Do you think overgassing is the root of the problem?
Yes. Here in this video he has a 11” gun with the 0 port drilled out to match the 1 port on the 14” gun. When he shoots it looks like it solves the bolt overspeed problem
https://youtu.be/4Z6WffSMBx4
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Tried running another 90 rounds through my 14” MS with the 10” HBI handguard. Ran 3 types of steel case—Tula, Red Army Standard, and lacquer Wolf Military classic. Stovepipes with all of them. The lacquer was the worst for sure—4x stovepipes in one mag!
Paid attention to ejection patterns and it was like 90% of casings being rocketed out at 1-2 o’clock (as far forward as possible basically) with the other 10% coming out almost like they were under gassed (4 o’clock with cases falling only a foot or so away).
About ready to send this thing to CZ.
It may be that the lacquer "sticks" a bit more in the chamber at the instant of firing when the case is superheated and expands from detonation, causing it to hang up more in the chamber when the super velocity / overgassed bolt/extractor loses its grip on the case rim. Generally, the lacquer coating is considered superior to poly coat.
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Hey everyone new to forum but I wanted to give a few thoughts on this as I have a Bren 2 ms 9" in 7.62x39.
Initially, I don't believe I had FTE problems on the first hundred rounds. However, i did start to have them sporadically over the next 200 rounds. I thought it was the magazines at first(one of the mags cracked on the feed lip so I thought that was it for a while)The ammo I was using was brass cased ball ammo Igman I think is the brand( Yugoslav milspec ammo I believe). Also used Wolf performance steel cased. I only have ever used position 1 gas setting. Both of this ammo I run through a palmetto ak and it has zero issues as you would expect of an AK and most 7.62x39 guns.
I then had some work done to the gun. I had an hbi industries handguard installed along with trigger, safety, handle and a lantech dragons breath muzzle break that fits my dead orbit sandman-s suppressor.
Recently, I decided to try out brown bear sub-sonics with my suppressor and bren 2 combo. So far I have shot about 300 rounds with this setup and have not had one stove pipe or FTE.( I would get an fte about 3 times in one mag with normal ammo) What that says to me is there is definitely some issues with the gas system as most have said. Drilling out 0 seems like the best solution but just feels wrong on such expensive gun lmao. The reality is on a sbr(under 10") the dwell time is very minimal so its difficult to get the gas system to function properly not to mention excessive wear and tear on parts. I had been wondering how well they had engineered that specific part(the gas system)and that apparently is still up for debate 8).
I cant deny I'm really happy running subs in this combo, as it has proven to be more reliable than 300blk builds I've tried. I would like to be able to have the gun run reliably without a suppressor and sub-sonics, though. Especially for such an expensive and what I think you would call a high quality gun( I bought the $10 dan haga wobble fix washers).
I do really enjoy this gun now that I can reliably shoot it. But, having such a low reliability with normal ammunition really makes it hard to justify to the average person, most feel a $2k gun should work out of the box every time.
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Yes. Here in this video he has a 11” gun with the 0 port drilled out to match the 1 port on the 14” gun. When he shoots it looks like it solves the bolt overspeed problem
It’s too bad that the chances of getting new gas plugs to reduce the gassiness from CZ in the short to medium term are very low. You’ve got me thinking about getting my 14” cut down now!
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Yes. Here in this video he has a 11” gun with the 0 port drilled out to match the 1 port on the 14” gun. When he shoots it looks like it solves the bolt overspeed problem
It’s too bad that the chances of getting new gas plugs to reduce the gassiness from CZ in the short to medium term are very low. You’ve got me thinking about getting my 14” cut down now!
For my 11” 2s I just need the gas plug from a 14” gun, and then could use the “0” to have drilled for suppressor setting if ever needed in the future. I wonder if CZ would help us out with this
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Does anybody have the size of the 14" 7.62 bren setting 1 gas port?
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I'm not sure what the port size is on the 14" good luck getting it done, I actually went into copper customs and asked the guys at copper if chase from definitive arms would drill my zero position on my gas tube plug to the size on the 14" pistol , it was a hard NO! because of voiding warranty and liability issues im sure... I have contacted Tim from military arms channel since im local to him and see if he would like to take my bren 2ms in 7.62x39 with a 11" barrel out to document the ejection issues since my pistol is having this problem. We are currently working on getting together and having Tim look into it... ill try and keep you all posted on this situation.
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Check what I found earlier. This makes a ton of sense as to the problem.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/CZ-Bren-2-FTE-Issue-Analyzed-and-probable-fix-Need-Guinea-pigs-STAT-ASAP-Get-in-here-and-try-this/2-516159/
I'm not sure what the port size is on the 14" good luck getting it done, I actually went into copper customs and asked the guys at copper if chase from definitive arms would drill my zero position on my gas tube plug to the size on the 14" pistol , it was a hard NO! because of voiding warranty and liability issues im sure... I have contacted Tim from military arms channel since im local to him and see if he would like to take my bren 2ms in 7.62x39 with a 11" barrel out to document the ejection issues since my pistol is having this problem. We are currently working on getting together and having Tim look into it... ill try and keep you all posted on this situation.
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So glad at this point I bought a 556, it was close though!!
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I have a 2019 14 inch bren 2ms in 7.62×39. My gun was very overgassed or so I thought. The gun was ejecting straight forward or if I was lucky at 1o clock and just barely clearing the ejection port. It would jam every 3 to 5 rounds. Well I finally got my hands on an 11inch 5.56 gas plug or tube to try in my 14 inch 7.62 gun and it works perfectly. Ejection is at 3o clock on setting 1 and slightly forward at 2:30 to 2 o clock on the adverse setting or setting 2. My gun is fixed. No drilling of gas ports needed. Hope this helps someone because cz sure isn't. All ammo used to test was wolf military classic 124gr hp. Also tried S&B brass cased soft points as well as ppu brass case soft points and wolf 123 gr fmj.
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I have a 2019 14 inch bren 2ms in 7.62×39. My gun was very overgassed or so I thought. The gun was ejecting straight forward or if I was lucky at 1o clock and just barely clearing the ejection port. It would jam every 3 to 5 rounds. Well I finally got my hands on an 11inch 5.56 gas plug or tube to try in my 14 inch 7.62 gun and it works perfectly. Ejection is at 3o clock on setting 1 and slightly forward at 2:30 to 2 o clock on the adverse setting or setting 2. My gun is fixed. No drilling of gas ports needed. Hope this helps someone because cz sure isn't. All ammo used to test was wolf military classic 124gr hp. Also tried S&B brass cased soft points as well as ppu brass case soft points and wolf 123 gr fmj.
How did you get your hands on an 11” 5.56 gas tube? That’s been the main problem with CZ - no spare parts.
Can you measure the gas port sizes on both gas tubes with a caliper and let us know?
Thanks!
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I got mine from the European webstore. I think for the 11inch 5.56 setting 1 is around 1.2ish mm and setting 2 is 1.5ish mm. I also am 99% sure the 8 inch 5.56 gas tube would work as well in the 14 inch 7.62. I think the measurements on the 8 inch 5.56 is setting 1 1.15mm and setting 2 is 1.44mm. The dwell time in the 14inch 7.62 is ridiculous. The gas tube ports in my original 7.62 14 inch plug were so ridiculously oversized I didn't bother to measure lol. My best guess at the original plug hole sizes were setting 1 1.6/1.7mm and setting 2 1.8/1.9mm... way too big for that amount of dwell time in the 14 inch barrel. I am a mechanical engineer and this is just my 2 cents... I think most people are experiencing the same exact or very similar malfunctions it is just everyone interprets the malfunctions slightly different. I do not believe it is a widespread extractor/ejector spring issue but I'm not denying very few could have "out of spec" springs but I don't believe it is the main culprit plaguing these firearms. With all the research I have conducted I think the problem is with the gas port location being the same for all barrel lengths. I have noticed less problems with the shorter length 8 and 11 inch barrels. As the dwell time increases in the longer 11 and 14 inch barrels the bolt velocity becomes too much for this "modular" design. You also have to consider that an empty 7.62 case is rear or primer heavy when spent and has a hard enough time "swinging" the case mouth out while ejecting. All the weight being near the primer wants to keep it planted in place during a high bolt velocity scenario. Slow the bolt velocity down and give the light ended case mouth time to swing out adequately enough for reliable ejection. A heavy extractor/ejector spring would help this issue but i believe it is a bandaid to the real problem and will only result in more broken extractors. Again just my 2 cents from what I have researched.
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I got mine from the European webstore. I think for the 11inch 5.56 setting 1 is around 1.2ish mm and setting 2 is 1.5ish mm. I also am 99% sure the 8 inch 5.56 gas tube would work as well in the 14 inch 7.62. I think the measurements on the 8 inch 5.56 is setting 1 1.15mm and setting 2 is 1.44mm. The dwell time in the 14inch 7.62 is ridiculous. The gas tube ports in my original 7.62 14 inch plug were so ridiculously oversized I didn't bother to measure lol. My best guess at the original plug hole sizes were setting 1 1.6/1.7mm and setting 2 1.8/1.9mm... way too big for that amount of dwell time in the 14 inch barrel. I am a mechanical engineer and this is just my 2 cents... I think most people are experiencing the same exact or very similar malfunctions it is just everyone interprets the malfunctions slightly different. I do not believe it is a widespread extractor/ejector spring issue but I'm not denying very few could have "out of spec" springs but I don't believe it is the main culprit plaguing these firearms. With all the research I have conducted I think the problem is with the gas port location being the same for all barrel lengths. I have noticed less problems with the shorter length 8 and 11 inch barrels. As the dwell time increases in the longer 11 and 14 inch barrels the bolt velocity becomes too much for this "modular" design. You also have to consider that an empty 7.62 case is rear or primer heavy when spent and has a hard enough time "swinging" the case mouth out while ejecting. All the weight being near the primer wants to keep it planted in place during a high bolt velocity scenario. Slow the bolt velocity down and give the light ended case mouth time to swing out adequately enough for reliable ejection. A heavy extractor/ejector spring would help this issue but i believe it is a bandaid to the real problem and will only result in more broken extractors. Again just my 2 cents from what I have researched.
Interesting! Thanks for that info!
I’m no engineer, but I think you’re right about the issues of the x39 Bren 2. Do you have a link to the European web store? I could not find any gas tubes for sale at CZ UB.
Thanks!
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I got mine from the European webstore. I think for the 11inch 5.56 setting 1 is around 1.2ish mm and setting 2 is 1.5ish mm. I also am 99% sure the 8 inch 5.56 gas tube would work as well in the 14 inch 7.62. I think the measurements on the 8 inch 5.56 is setting 1 1.15mm and setting 2 is 1.44mm. The dwell time in the 14inch 7.62 is ridiculous. The gas tube ports in my original 7.62 14 inch plug were so ridiculously oversized I didn't bother to measure lol. My best guess at the original plug hole sizes were setting 1 1.6/1.7mm and setting 2 1.8/1.9mm... way too big for that amount of dwell time in the 14 inch barrel. I am a mechanical engineer and this is just my 2 cents... I think most people are experiencing the same exact or very similar malfunctions it is just everyone interprets the malfunctions slightly different. I do not believe it is a widespread extractor/ejector spring issue but I'm not denying very few could have "out of spec" springs but I don't believe it is the main culprit plaguing these firearms. With all the research I have conducted I think the problem is with the gas port location being the same for all barrel lengths. I have noticed less problems with the shorter length 8 and 11 inch barrels. As the dwell time increases in the longer 11 and 14 inch barrels the bolt velocity becomes too much for this "modular" design. You also have to consider that an empty 7.62 case is rear or primer heavy when spent and has a hard enough time "swinging" the case mouth out while ejecting. All the weight being near the primer wants to keep it planted in place during a high bolt velocity scenario. Slow the bolt velocity down and give the light ended case mouth time to swing out adequately enough for reliable ejection. A heavy extractor/ejector spring would help this issue but i believe it is a bandaid to the real problem and will only result in more broken extractors. Again just my 2 cents from what I have researched.
How did you manage to buy one from the European webstore? I tried going this route, but once you get it in your cart there is no way to check out.
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I think the legal situation in Czech Republic changed recently. I was told that they can't send any main components outside of the EU. This doesn't include the stock, but does include thigns like firing pins and the gas cylinder, unfortunately.
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I think the legal situation in Czech Republic changed recently. I was told that they can't send any main components outside of the EU. This doesn't include the stock, but does include thigns like firing pins and the gas cylinder, unfortunately.
Have you got a link to that? They sure are sending complete guns, including the Bren 2, even though they aren’t sending spare parts (which I assume are being used to assemble complete guns, which are flying off the shelves at premium prices during this panic).
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I contacted the owner of cz-parts.com about getting some things like firing pins, recoil springs, gas cylinders and etc. Here is his response: "Unfortunately these parts are not possible for us to supply outside of Europe because of local legislation regarding these parts as main parts of a rifle."
I believe this has changed recently, as it was possible to occasionally obtain them as late as last year. I also understand that CR has recently had some of their gun laws change due to pressure from the EU to adopt EU-wide firearms policy.
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Is there still no response from CZ regarding the FTE Issues on the 7.62 version of the gun? I tried to get a third whole drilled on my gas regulator but nobody in my Area, is even brave enough to try.
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Is there still no response from CZ regarding the FTE Issues on the 7.62 version of the gun? I tried to get a third whole drilled on my gas regulator but nobody in my Area, is even brave enough to try.
You should contact HBI, they provide a service to drill the third hole and replace the piston spring for @ $60.
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Is there still no response from CZ regarding the FTE Issues on the 7.62 version of the gun? I tried to get a third whole drilled on my gas regulator but nobody in my Area, is even brave enough to try.
You should contact HBI, they provide a service to drill the third hole and replace the piston spring for @ $60.
Best money spent on my setup. Suppressed shooting results in consistent 3 O’clock ejection pattern.
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I contacted the owner of cz-parts.com about getting some things like firing pins, recoil springs, gas cylinders and etc. Here is his response: "Unfortunately these parts are not possible for us to supply outside of Europe because of local legislation regarding these parts as main parts of a rifle."
I believe this has changed recently, as it was possible to occasionally obtain them as late as last year. I also understand that CR has recently had some of their gun laws change due to pressure from the EU to adopt EU-wide firearms policy.
Uuummm...come again? How is it CZ can ship entire pistols but cannot ship replacement parts? Something isn’t adding up.
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I contacted the owner of cz-parts.com about getting some things like firing pins, recoil springs, gas cylinders and etc. Here is his response: "Unfortunately these parts are not possible for us to supply outside of Europe because of local legislation regarding these parts as main parts of a rifle."
I believe this has changed recently, as it was possible to occasionally obtain them as late as last year. I also understand that CR has recently had some of their gun laws change due to pressure from the EU to adopt EU-wide firearms policy.
Uuummm...come again? How is it CZ can ship entire pistols but cannot ship replacement parts? Something isn’t adding up.
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I’m sure CZ wants to sell as many complete guns as they can right now, ahead of any possible AWB, and then service and sell parts when / if things calm down.
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Uuummm...come again? How is it CZ can ship entire pistols but cannot ship replacement parts? Something isn’t adding up.
CZ-parts.com is not affiliated with CZ. They just sell parts. They're based in Europe, and so are bound by new EU laws that strictly regulate certain firearm parts.
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If you dont follow the thread on Arfcom, I'll post my most recent updates here.
I posted on the Cz-USA Facebook page then sent the same message to the Cz-Usa warranty email and CZUB's contact us form. This is what I posted:
This month marks the one year anniversary of the beginning of my FTE malfunctions with my 7.62x39 Bren 2. Since then my first Bren 2 went back to your facility 3 times.
The first two times it was sent back to me with the remarks that it was caused by lacquer coated ammo and that the weapon was too dirty. Every time it came back it would malfunction on the very next range session and would go back to your facility.
After the third trip back, many more cases had been reported and CZ finally began to take the reports seriously. This resulted in CZ sending me a replacement 7.62x39 Bren 2. Unfortunately, this pistol had the very same issues my first Bren had.
I tried to troubleshoot this firearm as well, with no success. My biggest finding was that the ejector spring channel was clogged with metal shavings causing the plunger to bind. Not only that, my ejector spring was kinked. Unfortunately this gun is still waiting a fix from CZ.
My question to you is this: how much longer must we wait for you to fix your product? One year of waiting is not only absolutely ridiculous, it is borderline negligent on your end. It would be different if you would keep us in the loop, let us know what is going on. The last time I posted on your Facebook accout was months ago, and you stated the team from CZ had flown to the states to test ammo available here in the US. Nothing since then has been mentioned.
CZub replied first:
Hello Tfdarchos,
Thank you for reaching out.
We are sorry you are experiencing troubles with your rifle. We are fully aware of the problem with BREN 2 rifles of this caliber and we have been analyzing the problems with utmost thoroughness.
I have checked the current status with the responsible management internally in CZ. We will release an official statement on this topic soon with instructions for our customers and all the necessary information.
Let us apologize for the delay with the resolution of this problem, we will do our best to avoid such situations in the future.
S pozdravem / Kind regards
*****
Marketing Specialist
Later that day CZ USA replied with this:
Tfdarchos,
I am very sorry for the current situation and completely understand your frustration. Believe me when I say we are just as frustrated as you. There are a lot of factors that have hindered the factory’s progress on a solution. Traveling from the Czech Republic to the states for testing has proved challenging as is finding many different brands of ammunition to test with.
A Czech team from the factory has been here several times now and they believe the most recent visit was successful. Please understand that while we have been working to find a solution we have to be careful about how much information is released in order to limit false reports and misinformation as it gets circulated online.
At this point the factory does believe they have determined the cause and found a solution but it will likely be at least several months before we receive the necessary parts here in the states. At that point we will likely want to do some wider range testing with as many types and brands of ammunition as we can with several different firearms to validate results before releasing the fix to the public. While we understand the situation is frustrating we want to be sure that, when a fix is released, it is indeed a fix and not a temporary solution.
This whole process has taken much longer than any of us would have liked or expected which is why we have offered and are still offering refunds or 5.56 replacements for our customers. I see in your most recent RMA that you do not want a refund or replacement so unfortunately the only thing I can offer is hope that a solution is in the near future. If you have changed your mind please let us know and we can proceed accordingly.
We will keep working as diligently as possible so this issue can be conclusively resolved and I sincerely apologize again on behalf of the entire CZUB/CZ-USA team.
*********
Gunsmith & Technical Support Supervisor
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Thanks for sharing their responses with us. I don't understand why they can't put this out there to let people know that they're actively trying. I bet there would have been a lot less distrust and loss of faith in CZ by some if they made this stuff public. Put out periodic press releases on the known issue. I know this comes from a marketing person, but it does come off as a sincere statement that they're trying and I do believe it. If you want to see how a company does things the right way, look at how Desert Tech handled the criticisms of the MDR. They heard the feedback, investigated, addressed how they could have done better, and improved the product. They were transparent and forthright with the information and didn't try and sweep it aside. I wasn't aware of the initial criticism of the MDR until I saw this response video, so it can be argued that admitting to a product's issues can harm said product, but just the fact that they put it out there blew me away and makes me trust the product moreso than before. https://youtu.be/9ed01kq20dM
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If you dont follow the thread on Arfcom, I'll post my most recent updates here.
I posted on the Cz-USA Facebook page then sent the same message to the Cz-Usa warranty email and CZUB's contact us form. This is what I posted:
This month marks the one year anniversary of the beginning of my FTE malfunctions with my 7.62x39 Bren 2. Since then my first Bren 2 went back to your facility 3 times.
The first two times it was sent back to me with the remarks that it was caused by lacquer coated ammo and that the weapon was too dirty. Every time it came back it would malfunction on the very next range session and would go back to your facility.
After the third trip back, many more cases had been reported and CZ finally began to take the reports seriously. This resulted in CZ sending me a replacement 7.62x39 Bren 2. Unfortunately, this pistol had the very same issues my first Bren had.
I tried to troubleshoot this firearm as well, with no success. My biggest finding was that the ejector spring channel was clogged with metal shavings causing the plunger to bind. Not only that, my ejector spring was kinked. Unfortunately this gun is still waiting a fix from CZ.
My question to you is this: how much longer must we wait for you to fix your product? One year of waiting is not only absolutely ridiculous, it is borderline negligent on your end. It would be different if you would keep us in the loop, let us know what is going on. The last time I posted on your Facebook accout was months ago, and you stated the team from CZ had flown to the states to test ammo available here in the US. Nothing since then has been mentioned.
CZub replied first:
Hello Tfdarchos,
Thank you for reaching out.
We are sorry you are experiencing troubles with your rifle. We are fully aware of the problem with BREN 2 rifles of this caliber and we have been analyzing the problems with utmost thoroughness.
I have checked the current status with the responsible management internally in CZ. We will release an official statement on this topic soon with instructions for our customers and all the necessary information.
Let us apologize for the delay with the resolution of this problem, we will do our best to avoid such situations in the future.
S pozdravem / Kind regards
*****
Marketing Specialist
Later that day CZ USA replied with this:
Tfdarchos,
I am very sorry for the current situation and completely understand your frustration. Believe me when I say we are just as frustrated as you. There are a lot of factors that have hindered the factory’s progress on a solution. Traveling from the Czech Republic to the states for testing has proved challenging as is finding many different brands of ammunition to test with.
A Czech team from the factory has been here several times now and they believe the most recent visit was successful. Please understand that while we have been working to find a solution we have to be careful about how much information is released in order to limit false reports and misinformation as it gets circulated online.
At this point the factory does believe they have determined the cause and found a solution but it will likely be at least several months before we receive the necessary parts here in the states. At that point we will likely want to do some wider range testing with as many types and brands of ammunition as we can with several different firearms to validate results before releasing the fix to the public. While we understand the situation is frustrating we want to be sure that, when a fix is released, it is indeed a fix and not a temporary solution.
This whole process has taken much longer than any of us would have liked or expected which is why we have offered and are still offering refunds or 5.56 replacements for our customers. I see in your most recent RMA that you do not want a refund or replacement so unfortunately the only thing I can offer is hope that a solution is in the near future. If you have changed your mind please let us know and we can proceed accordingly.
We will keep working as diligently as possible so this issue can be conclusively resolved and I sincerely apologize again on behalf of the entire CZUB/CZ-USA team.
*********
Gunsmith & Technical Support Supervisor
Well, talk is cheap, especially after the fact.
MAC and HBI seem to have figured out the fte issue and fixed it, simply with a smaller port on the gas regulator and a stiffer piston spring for good measure.
Instead of fixing the malfunctioning Bren 2s and supplying their customers with necessary spare parts, CZ has been preoccupied with using every spare part to crank out finished guns ahead of a potential AWB in the US and in fulfilling big military contracts abroad.
No doubt, CZ has maximized profits over the past couple of years. Only now that bad publicity has caught up with them on the x39 Brens is CZ even talking about fixing the problem.
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Well, talk is cheap, especially after the fact.
MAC and HBI seem to have figured out the fte issue and fixed it, simply with a smaller port on the gas regulator and a stiffer piston spring for good measure.
Instead of fixing the malfunctioning Bren 2s and supplying their customers with necessary spare parts, CZ has been preoccupied with using every spare part to crank out finished guns ahead of a potential AWB in the US and in fulfilling big military contracts abroad.
No doubt, CZ has maximized profits over the past couple of years. Only now that bad publicity has caught up with them on the x39 Brens is CZ even talking about fixing the problem.
Well said. I understand CZ (as well as other manufacturers) pumping out completed pistols/rifles in fear of a ban. As a company, you have to find a balance. I know they want to place as many products in owners hands, but at what cost? Will people buy products that cannot be sufficiently supported? Maybe with the merger CZ will have American influences within the company to promote service and support. We are not the Czech Republic. American firearm owners hold companies accountable, especially those who ask premium pricing for their products. It is true HBI is on the ball and I’m thankful of their support & service. I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.
Does anyone else find it a little comical that a rifle built and implemented in 1947 runs on nearly every variant of 7.62x39 ammo while CZ struggles with modern technology, machining and 70 years of usage?
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Well, talk is cheap, especially after the fact.
MAC and HBI seem to have figured out the fte issue and fixed it, simply with a smaller port on the gas regulator and a stiffer piston spring for good measure.
Instead of fixing the malfunctioning Bren 2s and supplying their customers with necessary spare parts, CZ has been preoccupied with using every spare part to crank out finished guns ahead of a potential AWB in the US and in fulfilling big military contracts abroad.
No doubt, CZ has maximized profits over the past couple of years. Only now that bad publicity has caught up with them on the x39 Brens is CZ even talking about fixing the problem.
Well said. I understand CZ (as well as other manufacturers) pumping out completed pistols/rifles in fear of a ban. As a company, you have to find a balance. I know they want to place as many products in owners hands, but at what cost? Will people buy products that cannot be sufficiently supported? Maybe with the merger CZ will have American influences within the company to promote service and support. We are not the Czech Republic. American firearm owners hold companies accountable, especially those who ask premium pricing for their products. It is true HBI is on the ball and I’m thankful of their support & service. I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.
Does anyone else find it a little comical that a rifle built and implemented in 1947 runs on nearly every variant of 7.62x39 ammo while CZ struggles with modern technology, machining and 70 years of usage?
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The AK was designed to be overgassed and built to handle it, to overcome dirt, fouling and dodgy ammo to function reliably. The other main infantry rifle of the era, the FAL, solves that problem with a sophisticated gas regulator with 6 or 8 settings to deal with such adverse conditions.
The Bren 2, being basically an AR18 design, requires a bit more finesse than the AK to operate, but I don’t think just 2 gas settings are enough for citizens, especially with the vast array of x39 ammo floating around in the commercial market.
Personally, I would have liked to have seen the Bren 2 with multiple gas settings, like the FAL, then we likely could have avoided these fte issues.
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I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.
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I sure hope that it is only part of the fix. I have all the upgrades from HBI and my gun still does not work. Currently it is a single shot rifle as it jams after every single round fired.
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I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I sure hope that it is only part of the fix. I have all the upgrades from HBI and my gun still does not work. Currently it is a single shot rifle as it jams after every single round fired.
So your Bren 2 is still malfunctioning, even with HBI’s smaller gas port and stiffer piston spring?
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Yes, both the spring and smaller suppressor port. It worked amazingly for about 120 rounds. Both unsuppressed and suppressed were ejecting 2-3 o'clock. After then the ejection pattern changed to 1 o'clock and I began to have FTE again.
The gun now fails almost every single round. It will also lock back on the last round and have the spent case spun 180 degrees laying on the feed lips of the magazine. This also happened with the shell deflector off.
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Yes, both the spring and smaller suppressor port. It worked amazingly for about 120 rounds. Both unsuppressed and suppressed were ejecting 2-3 o'clock. After then the ejection pattern changed to 1 o'clock and I began to have FTE again.
The gun now fails almost every single round. It will also lock back on the last round and have the spent case spun 180 degrees laying on the feed lips of the magazine. This also happened with the shell deflector off.
Wow - that is strange, and frustrating, I’m sure!
Some have speculated that, in addition to the overgassing, the ejector and/or extractor come from the factory fouled with a lot of crud and metal chips. I would disassemble and clean mine, but with the dearth of spare parts, the springs might fly off, never to be seen again. Then of course, if you send it back to CZ for repairs, god knows when you’ll get it back.
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I'd also check the ejector plunger to make sure it moves freely when fully depressed and released.
Are the cases dribbling out or being flung out with force? Does the weapon run on the third, smallest, hole without a suppressor attached?
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After 7 months of waiting, I just got fed up, asked CZ to return me my gun, bought the supporssor port drilling & heavier spring deal from HBI, went to the range, no more FTEs.
Leave it to the third-party industry to do something right.
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After 7 months of waiting, I just got fed up, asked CZ to return me my gun, bought the supporssor port drilling & heavier spring deal from HBI, went to the range, no more FTEs.
Leave it to the third-party industry to do something right.
Glad that finally fixed it!
CZ is just sitting there with their thumb up their butt doing nothing.
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I'd also check the ejector plunger to make sure it moves freely when fully depressed and released.
Are the cases dribbling out or being flung out with force? Does the weapon run on the third, smallest, hole without a suppressor attached?
This was done a long time ago. I was the user o Arfcom that brought the issue of cleaning the ejector channel to light.
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ETA: Never mind. I reread your post and saw that the case was flipped 180. If the case is flipped 180 and on top of the mag, that sounds again like the ejector isn't getting the brass rotated out to the right fast enough before the bolt travels too far to the rear, which would suggest that 1. somehow the bolt velocity is too high again, 2. the ejector is not functioning properly again, or 3. just maybe the extractor is worn/broken to the point that it can let the case go too early and occasionally result in the case bouncing off the edge of the ejection port back into the receiver.
If it's been a while, I'd check the ejector channel again. If the ejector channel is out of spec/too large, more debris might have slipped in.
If it's not the ejector again, and barring somehow either the gas cylinder's gas port or the barrel's has somehow enlarged in 120 rounds, The only other thing I can think might possibly cause this is a broken/worn extractor.
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Is there still no response from CZ regarding the FTE Issues on the 7.62 version of the gun? I tried to get a third whole drilled on my gas regulator but nobody in my Area, is even brave enough to try.
1.1mm carbide drill bit a drill press and some water for cooling is all you need. Take your time and line it up right. Drill slowly. Use a dremel to start a small dimple in the outer layer of the gas tube to get through the case hardening. After that its smooth sailing to a smooth shooting bren 2.
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Is there still no response from CZ regarding the FTE Issues on the 7.62 version of the gun? I tried to get a third whole drilled on my gas regulator but nobody in my Area, is even brave enough to try.
1.1mm carbide drill bit a drill press and some water for cooling is all you need. Take your time and line it up right. Drill slowly. Use a dremel to start a small dimple in the outer layer of the gas tube to get through the case hardening. After that its smooth sailing to a smooth shooting bren 2.
I take it your Bren is in 7.62x39? What barrel length?
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Yes 14 inch and it jammed every 2 to 3 rounds fired. When it did cycle it ejected the spent casings almost straight forward like 12:30. I used a 1.08 carbide drill bit. Now it ejects at 3:30 to 3 o clock and spits the casings about 4 feet away. I also have the gas plug from a 11 inch 5.56 bren 2. The gun hasn't jammed or failed in any way in over 5000 rounds since I fixed it 3 years ago. I feed it mostly steel case but it will eat anything.
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I have hd slow motion video of firing the rifle before and after drilling the ports if anyone is curious or needs proof. Lol lots of hd slo motion fte clips. Plenty of up close shots after drilling the 3rd hole.
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Yes 14 inch and it jammed every 2 to 3 rounds fired. When it did cycle it ejected the spent casings almost straight forward like 12:30. I used a 1.08 carbide drill bit. Now it ejects at 3:30 to 3 o clock and spits the casings about 4 feet away. I also have the gas plug from a 11 inch 5.56 bren 2. The gun hasn't jammed or failed in any way in over 5000 rounds since I fixed it 3 years ago. I feed it mostly steel case but it will eat anything.
Sounds good! So drilling a third, 1.08mm gas port in the OEM gas tube is the medicine for a 14” Bren 2 in 7.62x39…
How does the gas tube from the 11” 5.56 Bren 2 work in your 14” x39 gun?
I got a hold of a gas tube for a 16” Bren 2 carbine (“.223”)but it’s of a wider center diameter (and I assume larger diameter front piston) and won’t fit in my 11” x39 Bren.
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I have hd slow motion video of firing the rifle before and after drilling the ports if anyone is curious or needs proof. Lol lots of hd slo motion fte clips. Plenty of up close shots after drilling the 3rd hole.
Yes, I would like to see that! Can you post the video here?
Thanks!
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I have never posted a video on here before. If someone can walk me through it I will post what I have.
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Yes 14 inch and it jammed every 2 to 3 rounds fired. When it did cycle it ejected the spent casings almost straight forward like 12:30. I used a 1.08 carbide drill bit. Now it ejects at 3:30 to 3 o clock and spits the casings about 4 feet away. I also have the gas plug from a 11 inch 5.56 bren 2. The gun hasn't jammed or failed in any way in over 5000 rounds since I fixed it 3 years ago. I feed it mostly steel case but it will eat anything.
Sounds good! So drilling a third, 1.08mm gas port in the OEM gas tube is the medicine for a 14” Bren 2 in 7.62x39…
How does the gas tube from the 11” 5.56 Bren 2 work in your 14” x39 gun?
I got a hold of a gas tube for a 16” Bren 2 carbine but it’s of a narrower diameter and won’t fit in my 11” x39 Bren.
The 11 inch gas tube worked ok for me on setting 1 but it was still slightly overgassed. I think setting 1 on the 11 inch tube is around 1.2 to 1.3mm. The third hole i drilled measures 1.09mm. So basically 1.1mm. Perfect size for the dwell time on that 14 inch barrel. The 11 inch gas tube should stop the fte... it will still be a little overgassed though. I also have the hb industries overpower piston return spring. The spring doesn't help too much but adds a little more resistance to the bolt velocity.
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Link for my YouTube upload of the failures. When you load the YouTube video just click on my channel to see the slow motion videos. The three shorts are before I did anything to the gun. They show erratic ejection and failures to eject. The case even flips around a 180* and gets stuck on the extractor. All other videos are after fixing the gas plug. You can see the front of my ejection port is chewed up from forward ejection.
https://youtube.com/shorts/6hn26BiJuBc?feature=share
Hopefully that worked lol.
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If you uploaded it to YouTube, just post the link.
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Yes 14 inch and it jammed every 2 to 3 rounds fired. When it did cycle it ejected the spent casings almost straight forward like 12:30. I used a 1.08 carbide drill bit. Now it ejects at 3:30 to 3 o clock and spits the casings about 4 feet away. I also have the gas plug from a 11 inch 5.56 bren 2. The gun hasn't jammed or failed in any way in over 5000 rounds since I fixed it 3 years ago. I feed it mostly steel case but it will eat anything.
Sounds good! So drilling a third, 1.08mm gas port in the OEM gas tube is the medicine for a 14” Bren 2 in 7.62x39…
How does the gas tube from the 11” 5.56 Bren 2 work in your 14” x39 gun?
I got a hold of a gas tube for a 16” Bren 2 carbine but it’s of a narrower diameter and won’t fit in my 11” x39 Bren.
The 11 inch gas tube worked ok for me on setting 1 but it was still slightly overgassed. I think setting 1 on the 11 inch tube is around 1.2 to 1.3mm. The third hole i drilled measures 1.09mm. So basically 1.1mm. Perfect size for the dwell time on that 14 inch barrel. The 11 inch gas tube should stop the fte... it will still be a little overgassed though. I also have the hb industries overpower piston return spring. The spring doesn't help too much but adds a little more resistance to the bolt velocity.
Thanks for that info! I see from some of your previous posts in this and other threads that you’d measured various gas ports — all useful information!
My 11” x39 has not had any malfunctions so far (knock on wood), but will measure the port sizes as soon as I get a set of pin gauges.
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I made an indexing jig to locate the "Off position" on my gas port setting before drilling. I had to use a 1mm solid carbide drill to drill the new port. Nothing else will penetrate the gas port. Using this setting my Bren 2 7.62X39 11" works perfectly with or without my suppressor. Chuck cfowler007@icloud.com
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I made an indexing jig to locate the "Off position" on my gas port setting before drilling. I had to use a 1mm solid carbide drill to drill the new port. Nothing else will penetrate the gas port. Using this setting my Bren 2 7.62X39 11" works perfectly with or without my suppressor. Chuck cfowler007@icloud.com
Can you measure the other two gas ports?
How did the gun function on those settings?
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I made an indexing jig to locate the "Off position" on my gas port setting before drilling. I had to use a 1mm solid carbide drill to drill the new port. Nothing else will penetrate the gas port. Using this setting my Bren 2 7.62X39 11" works perfectly with or without my suppressor. Chuck cfowler007@icloud.com
I used a diamond tip dremel bit to get through the few outer layers of the case hardening. Then the carbide drill bit should bite and do its thing.
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Ok, just got some pin gauges and measured my gas ports (11” x39 Bren 2Ms):
#1. @ 0.0745” (1.89mm)
#2. @ 0.097” (2.46mm)
My Bren has not had any extraction / ejection issues after @ 1,200 rounds, though I have not checked the angle of ejection since it wasn’t malfunctioning. Will check next time I shoot it.
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Ok, just got some pin gauges and measured my gas ports (11” x39 Bren 2Ms):
#1. @ 0.0745” (1.89mm)
#2. @ 0.097” (2.46mm)
My Bren has not had any extraction / ejection issues after @ 1,200 rounds, though I have not checked the angle of ejection since it wasn’t malfunctioning. Will check next time I shoot it.
How does your rifle shoot on setting 2 adverse... I can see the shorter 11 inch bren functioning fine on setting 1 being 1.9mm but setting 2 being 2.4mm seems like to much gas to function reliably even with a dirty action.
1.9mm seems like it might be too big but it's probably ok for the shorter dwell time in the 11 inch barrel. I found the shorter barrel brens are tuned more appropriately and seem to experience less gassing issues due to the gas port location and dwell time.
Also what year was your gun manufactured.
Mine is from early 2019.
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Ok, just got some pin gauges and measured my gas ports (11” x39 Bren 2Ms):
#1. @ 0.0745” (1.89mm)
#2. @ 0.097” (2.46mm)
My Bren has not had any extraction / ejection issues after @ 1,200 rounds, though I have not checked the angle of ejection since it wasn’t malfunctioning. Will check next time I shoot it.
How does your rifle shoot on setting 2 adverse... I can see the shorter 11 inch bren functioning fine on setting 1 being 1.9mm but setting 2 being 2.4mm seems like to much gas to function reliably even with a dirty action.
1.9mm seems like it might be too big but it's probably ok for the shorter dwell time in the 11 inch barrel. I found the shorter barrel brens are tuned more appropriately and seem to experience less gassing issues due to the gas port location and dwell time.
Also what year was your gun manufactured.
Mine is from early 2019.
Honestly, I haven’t shot it on Position #2 as my gun performed perfectly well on Position
#1. It’s a 2020 vintage CZ Bren 2Ms.