The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: Rmach on September 16, 2020, 07:59:27 PM
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Last week, I took the C100 to the range and ran 150rds of 124gr Speer Lawman target ammo. I had 5 failures to eject/extract where the next round in the mag gets jammed under the empty shell casing that was partially pulled out of the barrel. One mag had 4 malfunctions and the other had 1. The ejection distance was erratic, some at 12" and others at a few feet.
I measured the feed lips on the mags and they were pretty close to each other with similar spring resistance. The extractor is clean and looks fine with good spring tension and holds a round very snugly. I polished the third rail and the leading beveled edge and went back to the range today. The gun was not thoroughly cleaned since I wanted to see how it ran after the third rail polishing.
I started off with 50rds of 124gr Speer Lawman (same lot as before), and I had 7 fail to eject/extract. Then I switched ammo to 115gr American Eagle, and 100rds ran perfectly. Then I ran 50rds of 115gr Magtech, and they ran perfectly. I picked up one Speer spent casings that caused a malfunction and a couple of Magtech/American casings and brought them home.
The Speer spent round was very snug in the barrel, and the Magtech/American Eagle spent rounds were not nearly as snug. I think I pretty much covered everything. I wish I had another recoil spring to try, but I don't. Oh, the C100 has about 3500 rounds through it. Any ideas would be appreciated.
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Weird! I've never had a problem with Speer Ammunition, but then again, it's been a long time since I've used any, preferring to shoot my own Match reloads.
With the Barrel out of the Pistol and Clean, do a plunk test on a loaded round of the Speer Ammunition. The Cartridge should drop into and out of the chamber without any resistance.
Otherwise, I would have to see your Pistol at a Range to really know what's wrong with it. It does sound like a weak Extractor Spring, though.
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Weird! I've never had a problem with Speer Ammunition, but then again, it's been a long time since I've used any, preferring to shoot my own Match reloads.
With the Barrel out of the Pistol and Clean, do a plunk test on a loaded round of the Speer Ammunition. The Cartridge should drop into and out of the chamber without any resistance.
Otherwise, I would have to see your Pistol at a Range to really know what's wrong with it. It does sound like a weak Extractor Spring, though.
Thanks for replying. When I got home I did plunk and spin test on all three brands and they slid in and out easily, but I still polished the chamber with Mothers Mag polish. It looks like the Speer Lawman case expanded just a hair more and is not as elastic as the American Eagle or Magtech. That was not the case, see my next post. The extractor claw looks great and the extractor spring grips the round very firmly, and easily passes the vigorous shake test (unfired round).
I'm not too worried at this point since it ran the American Eagle and Magtech just fine. I just like all my guns to run perfectly with any ammo.
Also, I just got off the phone with Tristar, and I asked them about the expected recoil spring life, and he didn't know (parts guy). Online, someone posted the interval at 2500rds, but I couldn't verify that. I'm at ~3500rds with the original braided recoil spring. Anyway, my C100 is out of the five year warranty by
less than one month, but he is sending me a new recoil spring, compliments of Tristar.
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That is very good of Tri Star to do.
3500 rounds on a recoil spring is just barely breaking it in on my guns.
I'm not an expert just a shooter so what do I know?
I hope it helps.
RCG
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Update, I looked over again at the spent Speer Lawman casing that jammed the gun, and I took some caliper measurements to compare it to the good spent American Eagle and Magtech. The measurements were the same, so I'm like why is that Speer casing so snug in the barrel. Then I discovered the problem with the Speer Lawman.
There is a burr on the bullet end of the outside edge that you can easily catch with your fingernail. There's nothing like that of the Magtech or American Eagle spent casings. Now did that burr happen during feeding into the barrel or was it there out of the box? I just checked a box of Speer (same lot), and i couldn't find any with that burr. My feed ramp is polished to a mirror finish, but I'm going to polish that bottom lead edge on the feed ramp a bit more. Picture of the burr is circled.
(https://i.imgur.com/LBvNV8G.jpg)
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Did all of those shells that failed to eject/extract have a burr like that?
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Did all of those shells that failed to eject/extract have a burr like that?
I don't know since they were hand ejected and fell on the floor with others. The one pictured was saved because the range officer caught it before it hit the floor.
I did a little more polishing on that feed ramp lead edge and top of inside barrel hood.
(https://i.imgur.com/u1urnGH.jpg)
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If you look at the front inside edge of the magazines you were using, as it relates to the feed ramp, is there any kind of a snag right there at that edge like a shell casing was catching as it was being fed out of the magazine into the chamber? Just curious.
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I looked at that earlier, and there's plenty of clearance between the mag and the bullet leaving the mag when it hits the ramp. Out of 200rds of Speer, i had ~12 failures to extract/eject. I didn't mention this before, but I fired 100rds of the same Speer ammo last week with no malfunctions. The problem started with next two range visits. All total, 450rds were fired in the past week, 300 were Speer, 100 American Eagle and 50 Magtech. No cleaning was done between range visits, other than light oiling.
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I received the new recoil spring today from Tristar, and it's about a 1/2" longer than my original one. That tells me maybe my old spring was too weak and the slide was cycling too fast. However, the short ejection distance on some rounds doesn't agree with that IMO. I'll shoot this this gun again in mid October when I have to re-qualify for my CCL, and then I'll update this thread.
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What pound is the recoil spring they sent you?
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If your spring is weaker your slide cycles back to zero slower. It goes back, stays back, and then comes forward chambering a new round.
if your spring is too strong it cycles back to zero much faster causing your barrel to dip. If too strong the slide will fail to make a complete backstroke and cause your gun to jam.
Also it has been my experience that lowering my recoil spring weight sent me shells farther out as opposed to closer. I'm pretty sure that's because lighter springs give you distance not heavier ones.
my SP-01 came with a 17# recoil spring and shells ejected about a foot and a half. went to 14# and they now land about 5-6 feet away which is perfect in my situations.
Also it seems like you are putting quite a variety of shells and loads through your gun. Find the load you want it to work for and match your recoil spring to that load. That's my experience anyway. Recoil springs function best when you match them to the pressure of the load you shoot, not to be confused with bullet weight.
I have read some of your other threads and know you shoot often. Is your form constant? That has a lot to do with cycling and with ejection as well.
There is so much more to spring weight then length, that looking at how long a spring is and determining the strength of it compared to any other spring seems.........unscientific to me. I would never base my decision off of the fact a spring is 1/2 longer then the old one.
Good luck in October, hopefully you will have the problem solved when you take your class. I'd shoot my gun again first to be sure but thats just me.
RCG
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The problem was only with Speer Lawman 124gr. I know what a heavier and lighter spring will do. The parts guy did not know the spring weight when I asked him. He just said it's a factory replacement and no other weight springs were available. I wanted a spring from him that was 2# lighter. I'm sure this new spring will compress after a few hundred rounds. For now, my C-100 just doesn't like Speer 124gr, or I have a bad batch of Speer 124gr. Ammo is too expensive now to run hundreds of rounds through my C-100 just to see if the problem with Speer is remedied. I only have ~250 rounds left of it anyway. Thanks for posting.
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Sorry R, when I read your post it seemed to me like you had the spring thing backwards. But it is now clear you know exactly what is going on.
You are saying it is an ammo problem, my bad I thought you were saying the spring might be a factor.
Man that's a shinny feed ramp BTW
It is my hope that one day I will be as knowledgeable as so many on the gun boards. I come here to get knowledge. Today I learned something.
RCG
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Did you try different magazine with the Speer ammo?
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Did you try different magazine with the Speer ammo?
Sure did, I mentioned that in an earlier post.
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Update, went back to the range today with a new factory recoil spring and polished chamber. I started out with 50rds of Blazer Brass with no problems and perfect ejection. Then I loaded one mag with 10rds of Speer Lawman (same batch as before), and I had three failures to extract. The 7rds that did eject were erratic, with two barely making it out. I stopped with the Speer Lawman and went to my next box of Blazer, and they ran perfectly, just like the first box of Blazer.
Since this problem cropped up with Speer Lawman, the American Eagle, Magtech and Blazer Brass all ran just fine, hundreds of rounds. The spent Speer cases, that didn't extract, did not have a burr on them and easily pulled out of the chamber, unlike the one case pictured in an earlier post.
I attached a pic of the failure to extract, each failure looked the same. I also took a pic of the spent case discoloration. The darker powder burns are Speer, and the much lighter is Blazer brass.
(https://i.imgur.com/E4ej5Pt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/U6cWK9h.jpg)
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It does sound like a weak Extractor Spring, though.
Were this my Pistol, I would install a Wolff Extra Power Cz75 Extractor Spring.
Generally, I trim one Coil off to fit most Cz's and Cz Clones (Tanfoglio), but Cz97B Pistols get the whole thing.
That said, I have yet to install one on a Turkish made Cz Clone.
Measure the old Spring against the new one and take your best guess on trimming.
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It does sound like a weak Extractor Spring, though.
Were this my Pistol, I would install a Wolff Extra Power Cz75 Extractor Spring.
Generally, I trim one Coil off to fit most Cz's and Cz Clones (Tanfoglio), but Cz97B Pistols get the whole thing.
That said, I have yet to install one on a Turkish made Cz Clone.
Measure the old Spring against the new one and take your best guess on trimming.
Thanks for your opinion, but the other brands mentioned extracted just fine. If there was one hint of an extraction problem with the ammo that extracted fine, I wouldn't hesitate to replace the extractor and the spring. At this point, I'm keeping a mental note that my C100 just doesn't like this batch of Speer Lawman. In two weeks, I will re-qualify for my CCL with this C100. I'll run the Blazer Brass that I fired today.
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(https://i.imgur.com/U6cWK9h.jpg)
Rmach: Is that a slight dent/deformation on the edge of the left case where the darkest spot is? Also, have you tried measuring the OD of both cases to see if there may be excess expansion? It could just be my eyes but it almost looks like the case on the left is slightly out of shape.
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I just measured the spent cases, and they are all .388 near the base and .380 at the shoulder, give or take .001. There is no lip deformation that I can feel with a fingernail.
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My theory is that the Speer ammo is under higher pressure while this round is trying to extract. That higher pressure is causing the case to be expanded and adhered to the walls of the chamber during the extraction cycle.
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My theory is that the Speer ammo is under higher pressure while this round is trying to extract. That higher pressure is causing the case to be expanded and adhered to the walls of the chamber during the extraction cycle.
Interesting, I have a couple boxes of S&B which are more potent than the other three brands that ran fine. I'll make a return trip to the range today and see how a box of S&B runs.
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My theory is that the Speer ammo is under higher pressure while this round is trying to extract. That higher pressure is causing the case to be expanded and adhered to the walls of the chamber during the extraction cycle.
Interesting, I have a couple boxes of S&B which are more potent than the other three brands that ran fine. I'll make a return trip to the range today and see how a box of S&B runs.
Powder makes a difference. To loads with the same velocity could have a different pressure depending on powder. Different powder burns at different speeds. That means that peak pressure is reached at different times which is why you could see the same velocity with different pressures.
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My theory is that the Speer ammo is under higher pressure while this round is trying to extract. That higher pressure is causing the case to be expanded and adhered to the walls of the chamber during the extraction cycle.
Interesting, I have a couple boxes of S&B which are more potent than the other three brands that ran fine. I'll make a return trip to the range today and see how a box of S&B runs.
Let me...expand...on that theory. Bad pun, I know. Is it possible that batch of lawman cases have thinner than spec walls and are expanding excessively under high pressure like flareside_ford mentioned? Can you measure the thickness of the case walls between the different shells?
I’m just throwing something at the wall to see if it sticks.
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Good point. I do feel like something is not right with the ammo. I wonder if it functions ok in another gun.
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The walls are .011-.012 on the Blazer and the Speer. I had a couple thousand rounds of this Speer ammo, and it ran fine in my CZs. Based on the powder burn rates that were mentioned, I don't think I'll go back to the range and fire the S&B.
I know Speer target ammo supposed to replicate firing LE ammo which has some oomph. However, I read several comments about heavy black discoloration on spent cases could be a sign of a weak powder charge, but not always. The recoil did not feel any lighter on the Speer though.
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It does sound like a weak Extractor Spring, though.
Were this my Pistol, I would install a Wolff Extra Power Cz75 Extractor Spring.
Generally, I trim one Coil off to fit most Cz's and Cz Clones (Tanfoglio), but Cz97B Pistols get the whole thing.
That said, I have yet to install one on a Turkish made Cz Clone.
Measure the old Spring against the new one and take your best guess on trimming.
This makes a lot of sense to me as well. It sure wont hurt anything to do it. probably will fix it and is what I'd do if this were my gun.
RCG
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I did go to the range today, and I ran 50rds of 124gr S&B first and then 100rds of 115gr Blazer Brass. Everything was going great until round 47 with the Blazer Brass. The S&B ran perfect with great ejection distance, and the Blazer Brass ran fine with shorter ejection distance, except for that one round. After having a failure to extract on round 47 of the Blazer Brass, I decided to run another box which ran just fine. Altogether, there was one failure to extract, same as in the picture. The more I think about it, I can't totally rule out that my left thumb might have been lightly touching the slide.
I have about 4000rds fired through this gun, and I have never removed the extractor. It holds an unfired round very firmly, and vigorous shaking with not dislodge it. Will an extra power extractor spring make this C100 run anything at 100%, or will it cause other problems? Here's a cut and paste from CZ Custom about using an extra power extractor spring: Extra power extractor springs are available for the CZ-75/85 series pistols - all calibers. 25% stronger than factory springs. We have never found it necessary to use these in 9mm pistols and often result in feeding malfunctions.
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It does sound like a weak Extractor Spring, though.
Were this my Pistol, I would install a Wolff Extra Power Cz75 Extractor Spring.
Generally, I trim one Coil off to fit most Cz's and Cz Clones (Tanfoglio), but Cz97B Pistols get the whole thing.
That said, I have yet to install one on a Turkish made Cz Clone.
Measure the old Spring against the new one and take your best guess on trimming.
I'm ordering the extra power extractor spring. It's under $7 delivered, so why not try it. Thanks for the help, and I thank the others that replied.
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I have about 4000rds fired through this gun, and I have never removed the extractor. It holds an unfired round very firmly, and vigorous shaking with not dislodge it. Will an extra power extractor spring make this C100 run anything at 100%, or will it cause other problems? Here's a cut and paste from CZ Custom about using an extra power extractor spring: Extra power extractor springs are available for the CZ-75/85 series pistols - all calibers. 25% stronger than factory springs. We have never found it necessary to use these in 9mm pistols and often result in feeding malfunctions.
Over the years, I've replaced the Extractor Springs on around eight Cz and Tanfoglio Based Cz Clones without issue, but I've NEVER used Extractor Springs from the Cz Custom Shop.
I've only used the Wolff Extra Power Extractor Springs, and these have been available for quite some time.
Again, I've had to trim them to fit and I recommend allowing only two coils past the length of your original Spring for length.
Typically, I've only ever had to trim off one coil. The Wolff Extractor Springs come a bit oversized to fit both Cz97B and the other Cz Pistols.
Side Note: Also, consider honing out the Extractor Pivot/Retention Pin hole, just an eeensy little bit, while you have it apart.
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I have about 4000rds fired through this gun, and I have never removed the extractor. It holds an unfired round very firmly, and vigorous shaking with not dislodge it. Will an extra power extractor spring make this C100 run anything at 100%, or will it cause other problems? Here's a cut and paste from CZ Custom about using an extra power extractor spring: Extra power extractor springs are available for the CZ-75/85 series pistols - all calibers. 25% stronger than factory springs. We have never found it necessary to use these in 9mm pistols and often result in feeding malfunctions.
Over the years, I've replaced the Extractor Springs on around eight Cz and Tanfoglio Based Cz Clones without issue, but I've NEVER used Extractor Springs from the Cz Custom Shop.
I've only used the Wolff Extra Power Extractor Springs, and these have been available for quite some time.
Again, I've had to trim them to fit and I recommend allowing only two coils past the length of your original Spring for length.
Typically, I've only ever had to trim off one coil. The Wolff Extractor Springs come a bit oversized to fit both Cz97B and the other Cz Pistols.
Side Note: Also, consider honing out the Extractor Pivot/Retention Pin hole, just an eeensy little bit, while you have it apart.
Thanks again. I'm finding conflicting posts on how to remove the extractor pin. Most of the CZ posts said to remove from top to bottom of slide, but several posts from known contributors said to remove from bottom to top. I did find one post for a Tristar S120, and he was told to try it from the bottom up. There was no followup on that post. The pin is not staked. I'm still searching for the correct answer.
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I have about 4000rds fired through this gun, and I have never removed the extractor. It holds an unfired round very firmly, and vigorous shaking with not dislodge it. Will an extra power extractor spring make this C100 run anything at 100%, or will it cause other problems? Here's a cut and paste from CZ Custom about using an extra power extractor spring: Extra power extractor springs are available for the CZ-75/85 series pistols - all calibers. 25% stronger than factory springs. We have never found it necessary to use these in 9mm pistols and often result in feeding malfunctions.
Over the years, I've replaced the Extractor Springs on around eight Cz and Tanfoglio Based Cz Clones without issue, but I've NEVER used Extractor Springs from the Cz Custom Shop.
I've only used the Wolff Extra Power Extractor Springs, and these have been available for quite some time.
Again, I've had to trim them to fit and I recommend allowing only two coils past the length of your original Spring for length.
Typically, I've only ever had to trim off one coil. The Wolff Extractor Springs come a bit oversized to fit both Cz97B and the other Cz Pistols.
Side Note: Also, consider honing out the Extractor Pivot/Retention Pin hole, just an eeensy little bit, while you have it apart.
Thanks again. I'm finding conflicting posts on how to remove the extractor pin. Most of the CZ posts said to remove from top to bottom of slide, but several posts from known contributors said to remove from bottom to top. I did find one post for a Tristar S120, and he was told to try it from the bottom up. There was no followup on that post. The pin is not staked. I'm still searching for the correct answer.
If its a roll pin direction.doesn't matter.
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It's a solid pin.
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I just found a good video that starts out showing how to remove and reinstall the extractor on a Tristar. Remove from top to bottom, hole is tapered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Otb_rQps8
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I placed a few spent casings under the current extractor claw, and it took quite of bit of pull with needle nose pliers to dislodge. I never have the easy solutions, oh well.
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I placed a few spent casings under the current extractor claw, and it took quite of bit of pull with needle nose pliers to dislodge. I never have the easy solutions, oh well.
You’ll get it licked.
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RMACH - Just curious, do you happen to have the nomenclature off the end of your box of Speer ammo? I discovered a 50 round box of Speer 9mm which I had set aside in an ammo box years ago for personal defense vs. range ammo & couldn’t help wonder if it’s the same as yours? My box says:
Speer LE Gold Dot Duty Ammunition, 9mm LUGER 124 GR. GDHP. Below that is a stock number 53618.
There is not a +P indicator on either the box or cartridges.
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RMACH - Just curious, do you happen to have the nomenclature off the end of your box of Speer ammo? I discovered a 50 round box of Speer 9mm which I had set aside in an ammo box years ago for personal defense vs. range ammo & couldn’t help wonder if it’s the same as yours? My box says:
Super LE Gold Dot Duty Ammunition, 9mm LUGER 124 GR. GDHP. Below that is a stock number 53618.
There is not a +P indicator on either the box or cartridges.
Mine is the Speer Lawman, round nose, 124gr target ammo that sold for $10 a box last year.
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The new Wolff spring will arrive next Wednesday. I'm going to remove the extractor, examine it closely and clean the channel. I'll decide then if I'm going to cut and install the Wolff spring.
This last range visit had the new recoil spring installed, and I have a hunch, if the old recoil spring was still installed, I wouldn't of had that one failure with the Blazer Brass. The reason I say that is because the very last round of Blazer only ejected about 7 inches, last round in the mag. All the S&B flew several feet. Then there's the test I did with the needle nose pliers that took a few pounds of pulling pressure on a spent casing to dislodge it from the extractor. It still almost adds up to be an ammo issue with the Speer Lawman.
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I have about 4000rds fired through this gun, and I have never removed the extractor. It holds an unfired round very firmly, and vigorous shaking with not dislodge it. Will an extra power extractor spring make this C100 run anything at 100%, or will it cause other problems? Here's a cut and paste from CZ Custom about using an extra power extractor spring: Extra power extractor springs are available for the CZ-75/85 series pistols - all calibers. 25% stronger than factory springs. We have never found it necessary to use these in 9mm pistols and often result in feeding malfunctions.
Over the years, I've replaced the Extractor Springs on around eight Cz and Tanfoglio Based Cz Clones without issue, but I've NEVER used Extractor Springs from the Cz Custom Shop.
I've only used the Wolff Extra Power Extractor Springs, and these have been available for quite some time.
Again, I've had to trim them to fit and I recommend allowing only two coils past the length of your original Spring for length.
Typically, I've only ever had to trim off one coil. The Wolff Extractor Springs come a bit oversized to fit both Cz97B and the other Cz Pistols.
Side Note: Also, consider honing out the Extractor Pivot/Retention Pin hole, just an eeensy little bit, while you have it apart.
I'm preparing for next week, so I'm asking why would I leave the new spring two coils longer than the old spring? Maybe I got this wrong, but I thought shortening a spring like this does not reduce it's rating. If that's correct, wouldn't I want to cut the spring to the same length or just a hair longer than the original?
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I'm preparing for next week, so I'm asking why would I leave the new spring two coils longer than the old spring? Maybe I got this wrong, but I thought shortening a spring like this does not reduce it's rating. If that's correct, wouldn't I want to cut the spring to the same length or just a hair longer than the original?
Shortening a Spring does reduce it's rating a bit, or so I've been told, and fitting can be trial and error. I'm only telling you what has worked for me and the Pistols I have worked on.
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I'm preparing for next week, so I'm asking why would I leave the new spring two coils longer than the old spring? Maybe I got this wrong, but I thought shortening a spring like this does not reduce it's rating. If that's correct, wouldn't I want to cut the spring to the same length or just a hair longer than the original?
Shortening a Spring does reduce it's rating a bit, or so I've been told, and fitting can be trial and error. I'm only telling you what has worked for me and the Pistols I have worked on.
good advice, if you tell someone what has worked for you, that's all that really can be expected. you aren't saying it will work for anyone else but when someone really has no idea what to do next it is a great place to start. Just my opinion off course.
RCG
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I just received the Wolff extra power extractor spring. The factory extractor looks fine and the channel was not terribly dirty. I added pics of the extractor and both springs, Wolff on the left in each pic.
So how much of the Wolff spring should I remove based on the pics?
(https://i.imgur.com/NjRJ7v7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8lz2Rqc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G38oFSr.jpg)
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Nevermind, the Wolff spring diameter is too large to fit in the Canik slide hole. I guess I have a extra spare extractor spring now for my other CZs.
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I just called Wolff to verify I was sent the correct spring, and I do have the correct extractor spring for a CZ75b. The Wolff spring has 7 coils and is .162 dia. The Canik spring is .152 with 7/6 coils. Also, the Canik spring is tapered .010 form top to bottom. Wolff does not make an extra power spring to replace that OEM spring. The closest spring they have in that OEM diameter will not be any stronger than what's in it now. Oh well, now we know Canik/Tristar C100 extractor spring is not compatible with a CZ spring.
I'm going to clean it up and put it back together with the original spring.
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Sorry to read if your further troubles. :(
A hack I would try, would be to concoct some sort of spacer, at the bottom of the Slide Extractor Shaft.
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Sorry to read if your further troubles. :(
A hack I would try, would be to concoct some sort of spacer, at the bottom of the Slide Extractor Shaft.
Now that's a thought, thanks. That's if I have anymore failures.
Here's another picture of the extractor and OEM spring. You can see the cone shape the spring has.
(https://i.imgur.com/QTcGqPf.jpg)
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One last question, is the standard CZ OEM extractor spring narrower in diameter than the Wolff spring? If not, then that spring will not work either in the C100.
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One last question, is the standard CZ OEM extractor spring narrower in diameter than the Wolff spring?
Nope!
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Thanks, I just ordered an AR15 disconnect spring from Brownells. It supposed to be the same diameter, length and conical shape as the stock Canik extractor spring but with slightly thicker coils. It was $6 delivered, so not much lost if it doesn't fit or work properly. Thanks for the help guys.
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I hope it works for you man!!!
RCG
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Go on witcha bad self MacGyver. Hope it works.
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I just received the AR15 disconnect spring, and it looks like it will fit if I remove the wider bottom last coil. However, the AR spring feels more than 25% weaker than the Wolff extra power spring, so this was a failed experiment, oh well. I still think the Speer ammo batch I got just doesn't want to run correctly in this C100. I changed my concealed carry renewal class to early December, so the C100 will not be fired again until then.
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I took the C100 back to the range today and fired 100rds of Blazer Brass 115gr. I had 4 failures to extract, same failure I had with the Speer Lawman. When I got home. I called Tristar, and he agreed the extractor spring is most likely the culprit. As most of you have posted that earlier, I agree with that now. Anyway, Tristar is sending me a new extractor spring, even though I'm out of warranty. To be continued.
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I've almost NEVER seen the CZ 75 design have an issue (like this) that was NOT the extractor spring. I started reading your post on page one and wondered why no one was raising it. I hope this fixes it. I DID take a Wolf spring and ground off a coil to get it to fit.
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I've almost NEVER seen the CZ 75 design have an issue (like this) that was NOT the extractor spring. I started reading your post on page one and wondered why no one was raising it. I hope this fixes it. I DID take a Wolf spring and ground off a coil to get it to fit.
Thanks for replying. The wolf spring is too large in diameter to fit in my 2013 C100. I wish it was a matter of removing a coil, but that's not the case with mine. The new spring Tristar is sending me should do the trick.
(https://i.imgur.com/G38oFSr.jpg)
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Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
That was an exhausting lesson for me to learn here.
Thanks for doing so many things before finally being able to get it right.
Now we can look to this thread and know specifically what not to do if we see a similar problem.
Great teaching tool.
RCG
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Been on this forum a little while and heard of lots of problems, but again - the extractor, dirt, and spring are likely 98% of CZ 75 problems. On a .40 you get issues with a 9mm slide stop too. CZs run. The 75 design is pretty bullet proof (other than the TRS and slide stop and I think the slide stop is overblown).
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I had a similar journey with the Tristar P120 sometimes dribbling out spent cases. After expirimenting with lighter recoil springs from a tuning kit purchased from CGW hoping an accelerated retraction of the slide would help, I finally poked into the extractor area and noticed a slight kink in the extractor spring. My first CZ75 extractor coil cut was too crude made from a dike. Taking the advice from one of the great moderators here, used thinner wire cutters for a second standard CZ75 extractor coil cut and the P120 runs again so far. Still, would be nice to just buy a couple of spare extractors off the shelf DESIGNED for the application rather than having to deal with the warranty department or modifying CZ OEM parts to fit/function. I suppose that is what you get with copy cats that don't maintain original dimensions for small parts. Likely no significant market for the likes of Wolf Springs or CGW to create a purpose built part for the clones.
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Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
That was an exhausting lesson for me to learn here.
Thanks for doing so many things before finally being able to get it right.
Now we can look to this thread and know specifically what not to do if we see a similar problem.
I don't see where Rmach said the problem was solved.
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Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
That was an exhausting lesson for me to learn here.
Thanks for doing so many things before finally being able to get it right.
Now we can look to this thread and know specifically what not to do if we see a similar problem.
I don't see where Rmach said the problem was solved.
I said to be continued. I'm expecting the factory new extractor spring to be delivered today. Barring no problems, I hope to get to the range tomorrow.
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I said to be continued. I'm expecting the factory new extractor spring to be delivered today. Barring no problems, I hope to get to the range tomorrow.
Maybe have the extractor spring hole reamed out to fit a CZ or Tanfoglio extractor spring. ;)
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I said to be continued. I'm expecting the factory new extractor spring to be delivered today. Barring no problems, I hope to get to the range tomorrow.
Maybe have the extractor spring hole reamed out to fit a CZ or Tanfoglio extractor spring. ;)
I was thinking the same thing, but I will give the factory replacement spring a chance to fix the problem. The C100 ran great the first few thousand, so fingers crossed for another few thousand.
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Amazing how simple it turned out to be.
That was an exhausting lesson for me to learn here.
Thanks for doing so many things before finally being able to get it right.
Now we can look to this thread and know specifically what not to do if we see a similar problem.
I don't see where Rmach said the problem was solved.
You are right I jumped the gun totally on this.....he said it should do the trick not it did do the trick.
Thank goodness there are people keeping me in line. I am always an optimist - my bad.
RCG
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The new factory extractor spring was delivered about an hour ago. I put the caliper on the new one and old one. The cone shaped springs are identical at the top (.130w) and at the bottom (.150W), and the overall height (.350) with the new spring is ~.010 taller than the old spring. Installation went fine, so back to the range tomorrow with fingers crossed.
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I'm back from the range. The first 59rds ran perfect with very good extraction using three magazines. At round 60, the first failure to extract occurred (same type of failure as before). One of the magazines had 3 failures to extract, and the other two had one each. I fired 100rds, and I load 10rds in each mag for reference.
Another disappointing day, and I'm not sure how to proceed. The spare Wolff extra power CZ spring I have is about .012 wider than the stock extractor spring and is not cone shaped. Should I ream/grind out the angled extractor spring hole in the slide to accommodate the CZ extra power Wolff spring, or should I move on and sell this C100 with disclosures? I would do the reaming with a Dremel. It's been a fine, tight fitted handgun, and I always said I would never sell it. I ran today with the new recoil spring and extractor spring, both recent factory replacements. The extractor claw looks fine.
I'm all ears right now, and I hope the members with much more experience than I can come up with a good suggestion. This is a $350 handgun that's just over 5 years old with about 4000 rounds fired.
One last note, I did put an unfired round under the extractor claw when I changed out the extractor spring to see how well it was gripping the round. I shook the slide pretty vigorously and it held the round without a problem.
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A hack I would try, would be to concoct some sort of spacer, at the bottom of the Slide Extractor Shaft.
This^^^^^^^ using perhaps a BB, Pellet, or Plastic Rod just big enough to drop into the Extractor Spring Shaft, to provide a bit of extra tension.
Since you went through some rounds before you started having problems again, you probably don't need much.
Make sure that your Magazines have been cleaned thoroughly, particularly at the Feed Lip area, but the whole mag tube needs it too!
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A hack I would try, would be to concoct some sort of spacer, at the bottom of the Slide Extractor Shaft.
This^^^^^^^ using perhaps a BB, Pellet, or Plastic Rod just big enough to drop into the Extractor Spring Shaft, to provide a bit of extra tension.
Since you went through some rounds before you started having problems again, you probably don't need much.
Make sure that your Magazines have been cleaned thoroughly, particularly at the Feed Lip area, but the whole mag tube needs it too!
Thanks, the mags are spotless internally.
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I made a spacer out of a tiny Phillips screw. I have two options to install it. Should I place it in the extractor hole with the button end down (shortest adjustment), or should I place it the hole with the threaded end down (tallest adjustment)? The tallest adjustment would add .130 to the extractor spring height, and the other way would be .050.
I have several of these screws that can be cut to whatever length I want.
(https://i.imgur.com/UO31Kjz.jpg)
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I’d try button end down first. You may even need to file down the screw head a little.
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Yup! Button Head down.
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Ok, thanks to both of you. I will install it with the button end down that will add only .050 to the overall length.
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The screw head was a good idea by the way.
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The screw head was a good idea by the way.
Thanks, I just finished installing it, and it took more effort to compress the spring and get the pin in. I use a roll pin punch to align the holes, and then insert the pin that will push out the punch. I hope it's not too much tension now. I placed a spent shell under the claw, and it's tight, but I cycled the slide and it kicked it out a couple inches.
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Don’t forget, you can always file down the head a bit to adjust tension.
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Don’t forget, you can always file down the head a bit to adjust tension.
Thanks, maybe I will get lucky with this first adjustment. I hope to hit the range this afternoon or tomorrow.
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I just got home from the range. Ran 100rds with NO PROBLEMS!! :) :) I watched every round eject, and none of them were weak. The gun was not cleaned from the last visit this week, so this was a good test using the new spacer under the extractor spring. I want to thank all the people who steered me in the right direction!!
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Great news! The only negative I can see is the spring may weaken quicker than normal but hopefully not.
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Great news! The only negative I can see is the spring may weaken quicker that normal but hopefully not.
Thanks, before I put the spring back in, I wanted to see how much the extractor actually pivoted, so I installed the extractor without the spring just to see. It looked like it pivoted <.015. I would think that small amount of movement would not increase the rate of decay that much.
I wonder why, with a new extractor spring and recoil spring, the .050 spacer was necessary since the extractor claw looked fine. What changed to cause such an erratic failure to extract?
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I just got home from the range. Ran 100rds with NO PROBLEMS!! :) :) I watched every round eject, and none of them were weak. The gun was not cleaned from the last visit this week, so this was a good test using the new spacer under the extractor spring. I want to thank all the people who steered me in the right direction!!
You are most Welcome! :) Glad to read that your Pistol is now running reliably!!! 8) :)
I wonder why, with a new extractor spring and recoil spring, the .050 spacer was necessary since the extractor claw looked fine. What changed to cause such an erratic failure to extract?
My hunch on that is that the Extractor Spring Shaft might be a hair deeper than it should be, but still within tolerances.