The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: BA Glover on June 09, 2014, 05:34:22 PM
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Long time lurker, first time post..... Figured this one was good enough to break the silence....
Palmetto State Armory has CZ2008 on sale for $399 plus postage.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html
I broke down and ordered one.
V/R
BA
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My first post on the fourm too, and I did the same thing as you lol. Ordered one just a few minutes ago.
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Ugg, I want to grab that soooo bad, but the missus would be pissed, LOL. That is a pretty sweet deal. I've just about got my original built the way I want, and this would let me build a second one in a different configuration.
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I like the price and have never had a bad PSA deal. I recently grabbed one of the J&G 400 2008's. It has a Century feature where the safety pretty much spins in a circle. Doesnt hit a stop if u push the safety forward i have half a mind to put a drop of jb weld on the receiver, or a screw.
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The notches on the safety should engage your trigger spring which has a raised portion that's supposed click and engage the safety. Granted, the safety can rotate 360* on every of these rifles, but should click into place at 3:00 (90*), 6:00 (180*), and 9:00 (270*).
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Good God that's cheap, complete with accessories. I was questioning how vendors were making a profit at around $500, much less Century and their wholesale margin. It could be that Palmetto has a cash flow problem and is selling them at, or slightly above, cost. I suspect that many vendors are hurting now as they're sitting on merchandise ordered a year ago during the scare and people have stopped buying. I hope the gun industry is not going to implode. Those left will then have the extremely high prices again.
I've read posts from years ago where VZ58 parts kits were selling retail for $50 (now ~$300). It could be that Century bought thousands of them wholesale for just a few dollars each and is now cashing in on it. If so, it was a good move. Maybe Palmetto is still making money on the deal.
So tempting to get another...
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I just popped for this @ $519. Still pleased with it but this is really good deal. Ammo less than $.24/ea locally. Fun shooter too
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OK, forgive the noob question but I am totally new to rifles...
I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?
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OK, forgive the noob question but I am totally new to rifles...
I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?
Doing the same as you. This was my first semi auto rifle with a detachable magazine. Ordered it yesterday with the end goal of making it more of a "home defense" (This wont be a primary go to however, Glock 35 or some other handgun will always be first pick) set up. From what research I've seen, yes it is a good platform however parts/upgrades will cost you quite a bit more than if you were to do the same thing with an AK and your options are limited.
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Honestly, one all purpose rifle, the 7.62x39 and the VZ58 in particular is a great multipurpose option for all needs w/in 300yards/m -- better than AR15 for all needs w/in 200y/m IMO. But both are overkill for an indoors-specific home defense weapon/caliber. You only need a rifle indoors if you're needing to penetrate body armor, which as a civilian, you don't, or shouldn't.
EDIT: Should add, though the VZ58 is a military surplus weapon from the 1950s, it's bones are the where Western/Nato models are finally ending up. The weapon was ahead of it's time, and with some of the modern upgrades, you have the same ergos and similar action to the modern SCARs, etc short stroke piston weapons, w/o all the polymer. And don't forget the tab if you're entrusting your life to the weapon.
For a home defense specific weapon, our primary is the Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm w/ the Glock Mag setup (33 round OEM glock mags -- though the Sub2k have been recently made of unobtanium, the pricepoint here is cost on GB [only place I've seen them without a months long waitlist] of $450-500 plus ~$100 in essential mods [waitlist you'd end up at that the $450 to $500 total pricepoint I'd imagine, a $100 GB premium]; cheaper than the VZ58/2008 when all said and done, considering rail costs, etc). The primary whys here are:
-sufficient but not overpowered/overpenetration within 50 yards (357 magnum equivalent at point blank range),
-excellent and cost effective performance in soft targets (read: human flesh, if defensive loads perform at standard velocities they're even more devastating/better at expanding/fragmenting at higher velocities which mitigates much of the potential for add'l penetration) at price points at less than 33 cents per round (primarily using Federal 9BP -- and you're looking at 50+ cents/round for similarly performing 7.62x39 rounds),
-muzzle blast and flash less than pistol of same caliber, just a little above 22lr out of a rifle actually (this allows for no disorientation/distraction as well as fast followup),
-a more ergonomic and accurate platform, especially for non-experts/beginners/those who don't have hours of range time under their belt; all rifles are better than pistols in this regard (I also think that a pump action semi-auto shotgun is the most difficult platform for novices to master, especially with issues like short stroking, tactical reloads, getting back on target with substantial muzzle blast/flash/muzzle rise, etc),
-the sub2000 empty and unloaded weighs 4lbs versus ~7lbs VZ2008
-at 29.5" open, it's essentially shorter than pistol is with arms extended and locked (VZ2008 is 34-35" open and my arms are 34-35" in dress shirts),
-it's also friendly for mounting a light/red dot/laser/etc -- I have a fiber optic sight and flashlight only on mine,
-it's easy to mount a light that actually points where you're looking, pistol maneuvers with lights are more complex IMO even if mounted due to weapon retention precautions,
-you can mount a sling which is a major plus for weapon retention,
-and ultimately, it's a weapon that both me and the Mrs are comfortable with and confident using.
Sidearms/pistols as secondaries.
Basically, the only thing the VZ58 and Keltec rifles lack that my pistol has is tritium sights. All HD weapons should have them IMO, but with a mounted light, they're less important...
My current preferences of weapons with rough uses for the personal defense/basic initial personal collection that covers all the bases setups if your curious (this is a value proposition list btw -- the best bang for buck; quality/capability first with cost the secondary consideration -- I approach weapons as such and as a cost-conscious new gun owner you will too; BOTTOM LINES are that trained well on with one weapon is worth 10 in the safe, at least 10 magazines per self defense weapon and 6 for your fun guns, you can never have enough ammo (but a couple thousand rounds/a couple years of recreational needs should be a minimum goal to work towards), don't forget body armor that you'll put on before investigating bumps in the night [like training, body armor and one gun beats no body armor and 10, level 3a minimum, 3+ ideal], you can't and don't want to shoot what you can't see so don't forget weapons lights or a flashlight always at hand, and lastly make sure you have extra springs and critical other spare parts on hand for each self defense weapon you own):
Handgun: 9mms -- Sig 2022, CZ75, Canik 55 Stingray-C (I prefer DA/SA, but for striker the Canik 55 TP 9 and Glock are actually probably preferable and easier for brand new shooters -- stick w/ 9mm and good ammo and you're GTG)
Handgun: 22lr - Bersa 22lr (again, this is DA/SA weapon, for striker practice a Ruger Mark 3 is probably best)
Indoor Home Defense: Keltec Sub2000 9mm, Uzi Rifle or Suomi Rifle or Colt 9mm Carbine (Colt 9mm are blowback not DI actions, same action as Uzi and Keltec, not sure about Suomi) would also swap in here.
Carbine: VZ58 7.62x39 - primarily intended for outdoors w/in 200 yards, ideally w/in 150 yards; red dot optic
Rifle, 22lr: Can't go wrong with a Ruger 10/22 (especially their 50th anniversary edition, the edition rifle, not just every 10/22 with the sticker) or Marlin Model 60, in that order IMO.
Shotgun: Remington 770 for pump, and Yildiz for O/U sporting. Don't know crap about or have an autoloader...
--To this point is, generously, the max distance where any civilian in a situation that's not SHTF, WROL, etc, has a legitimate self defense use/need for the above weapon(s)/roles
Rifle: Galil 5.56 Nato - intermediate round, intermediate range; ideally 150-300 yards, but 500 yard capable with standard 55-62gr ammo; 1-6x DMR Optic; ideally any piston-driven AR would swap in, but a direct-impingement AR by a reliable manufacturer is acceptable too... More effective at longer range with a 68-77 precision round.
Longer Range - K31 7.5 Swiss bolt action; 300-500 ideal, but 500-1000 yard capable; match grade ammo at bulk .308 costs. New production Remington 700, Winchester 60, or Savage in .308 (or if you want .270 or .30-06) are good alternatives.
Good read on 22lr for self defense: http://graywolfsurvival.com/1869/why-22-best-home-defense-weapon/
Good video on the Sub2k (yes, nutnfancy...):
http://youtu.be/qJ4pCc_cP9A
Good video on pistol carbines (again, yes nutnfancy...):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INxDQZdkCzg
And he continues the thought process in this M1 Carbine video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7EUoDp_1WM
Just some food for thought.
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Coming with 5 extra magazines to boot, this is a great deal! I would pick up a second one on this deal, if I had the spare change.
I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?
For customizing into a Tactical Carbine, Yes!
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/548/medium/Vz2008_BoneSteel.jpg)
Vz2008 with upgrades
BoneSteel upper and lower front hand guards
Mako Pistol Grip
Mako Folding Adjustable Stock
Slovakian Muzzle Break
Hammers Red/Green Dot Sight
As far as Home Defense goes, my 12 gauge Remington 1100 with a short Riot/Slug Barrel serves as primary just past a good Handgun.
For longer ranges outside my home, my Vz2008 does serve as primary.
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Honestly, one all purpose rifle, the 7.62x39 and the VZ58 in particular is a great multipurpose option for all needs w/in 300yards/m -- better than AR15 for all needs w/in 200y/m IMO. But both are overkill for an indoors-specific home defense weapon/caliber. You only need a rifle indoors if you're needing to penetrate body armor, which as a civilian, you don't, or shouldn't.
EDIT: Should add, though the VZ58 is a military surplus weapon from the 1950s, it's bones are the where Western/Nato models are finally ending up. The weapon was ahead of it's time, and with some of the modern upgrades, you have the same ergos and similar action to the modern SCARs, etc short stroke piston weapons, w/o all the polymer. And don't forget the tab if you're entrusting your life to the weapon.
For a home defense specific weapon, our primary is the Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm w/ the Glock Mag setup (33 round OEM glock mags -- though the Sub2k have been made somewhat of unobtanium, the pricepoint here is cost on GB of $450-500 plus ~$100 in essential mods; cheaper than the VZ58/2008 when all said and done, considering rail costs, etc). The primary whys here are:
-sufficient but not overpowered/overpenetration within 50 yards (357 magnum equivalent at point blank range),
-excellent and cost effective performance in soft targets (read: human flesh, if defensive loads perform at standard velocities they're even more devastating/better at expanding/fragmenting at higher velocities which mitigates much of the potential for add'l penetration) at price points at less than 33 cents per round (primarily using Federal 9BP -- and you're looking at 50+ cents/round for similarly performing 7.62x39 rounds),
-muzzle blast and flash less than pistol of same caliber, just a little above 22lr actually (this allows for no disorientation/distraction as well as fast followup),
-a more ergonomic and accurate platform, especially for non-experts/beginners/those who don't have hours of range time under their belt; all rifles are better than pistols in this regard (I also think that a pump action semi-auto shotgun is the most difficult platform for novices to master, especially with issues like short stroking, tactical reloads, getting back on target with substantial muzzle blast/flash/muzzle rise, etc),
-the sub2000 empty and unloaded weighs 4lbs versus ~7lbs
-at 29.5" open, it's essentially the same length as my pistol is with arms extended and locked (VZ2008 is 34-35" open),
-it's also friendly for mounting a light/red dot/laser/etc -- I have a fiber optic sight and flashlight only on mine,
-it's easy to mount a light that actually points where you're looking, pistol maneuvers with lights are more complex IMO,
-you can mount a sling which is a major plus for weapon retention,
-and ultimately, it's a weapon that both me and the Mrs are comfortable with and confident using.
Basically, the only thing the VZ58 and Keltec rifles lack that my pistol has is tritium sights. All HD weapons should have them IMO, but with a mounted light, they're less important...
My current preferences of weapons with rough uses for the personal defense/basic initial personal collection that covers all the bases setups if your curious (this is a value proposition list btw -- the best bang for buck; quality/capability first with cost the secondary consideration -- I approach weapons as such and as a cost-conscious new gun owner you will too; BOTTOM LINES are that trained well on with one weapon is worth 10 in the safe, at least 10 magazines per self defense weapon and 6 for your fun guns, you can never have enough ammo (but a couple thousand rounds/a couple years of recreational needs should be a minimum goal to work towards), don't forget body armor that you'll put on before investigating bumps in the night [like training, body armor and one gun beats no body armor and 10, level 3a minimum, 3+ ideal], you can't and don't want to shoot what you can't see so don't forget weapons lights or a flashlight always at hand, and lastly make sure you have extra springs and critical other spare parts on hand for each self defense weapon you own):
Handgun: 9mms -- Sig 2022, CZ75, Canik 55 Stingray-C (I prefer DA/SA, but for striker the Canik 55 TP 9 and Glock are actually probably preferable and easier for brand new shooters -- stick w/ 9mm and good ammo and you're GTG)
Handgun: 22lr - Bersa 22lr (again, this is DA/SA weapon, for striker practice a Ruger Mark 3 is probably best)
Indoor Home Defense: Keltec Sub2000 9mm, Uzi Rifle or Suomi Rifle or Colt 9mm Carbine (Colt 9mm are blowback not DI actions, same action as Uzi and Keltec, not sure about Suomi) would also swap in here.
Carbine: VZ58 7.62x39 - primarily intended for outdoors w/in 200 yards, ideally w/in 150 yards; red dot optic
Rifle, 22lr: Can't go wrong with a Ruger 10/22 (especially their 50th anniversary edition, the edition rifle, not just every 10/22 with the sticker) or Marlin Model 60, in that order IMO.
Shotgun: Remington 770 for pump, and Yildiz for O/U sporting. Don't know crap about or have an autoloader...
--To this point is, generously, the max distance where any civilian in a situation that's not SHTF, WROL, etc, has a legitimate self defense use/need for the above weapon(s)/roles
Rifle: Galil 5.56 Nato - intermediate round, intermediate range; ideally 150-300 yards, but 500 yard capable with standard 55-62gr ammo; 1-6x DMR Optic; ideally any piston-driven AR would swap in, but a direct-impingement AR by a reliable manufacturer is acceptable too... More effective at longer range with a 68-77 precision round.
Longer Range - K31 7.5 Swiss bolt action; 300-500 ideal, but 500-1000 yard capable; match grade ammo at bulk .308 costs. New production Remington 700, Winchester 60, or Savage in .308 (or if you want .270 or .30-06) are good alternatives.
Food for thought.
Very well said. This should be posted on every firearms thread. It seems people grab a AR or shotgun as their go to home defense weapon, forgetting that they both require 2 hand operation, are heavy, and have far too much firepower for inside a home (unless you live alone in the country I guess).
I've got my eye on a Sub 2000 sometime in the near future. How picky is yours with ammo? A buddy had one and he said it would only fire hot ammo and not stuff like Winchester white box.
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I've read posts from years ago where VZ58 parts kits were selling retail for $50 (now ~$300). It could be that Century bought thousands of them wholesale for just a few dollars each and is now cashing in on it. If so, it was a good move. Maybe Palmetto is still making money on the deal.
The rumor I heard was that Century got these parts kits over a decade ago for the $20-30 per kit range, probably the mid-90s after Warsaw Pact implosion and had been sitting on them for a number of years...
Century is good about controlling costs and all of their weapons are priced to basically clear out as soon as they hit retailers -- a volume by impossible to refuse value proposition -- exactly opposite of what Czechpoint's strategy is...
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Very well said. This should be posted on every firearms thread. It seems people grab a AR or shotgun as their go to home defense weapon, forgetting that they both require 2 hand operation, are heavy, and have far too much firepower for inside a home (unless you live alone in the country I guess).
I've got my eye on a Sub 2000 sometime in the near future. How picky is yours with ammo? A buddy had one and he said it would only fire hot ammo and not stuff like Winchester white box.
I've had good luck with it. They like to run a little more to the wetter side for lubrication. I had a few failures to eject with Tul steel case early on in the first 500, but well lubed and broken in the springs/internals, and it seems to feed whatever I put in it. Granted, the ball I have set aside for it and use most of the time at the range is a Romanian +P that runs hot and dirty, but it runs both the Federal 9BP and 9BPLE fine as well.
Shotguns are devastating and I understand the appeal and go back and forth on the topic, but they're LOUD indoors and cannot be fired nearly as rapidly, unless you port the top of your barrel(s) which then puts flash directly in your sightline ruining your nightvision.
And in my house, the shotgun (above a .410) is a me weapon, not me and the wife.
And the shotgun has its fair share of limitations too, despite its devastating firepower. Unless you have slugs handy, you're limited to within 25 yards only as well as the 6-9 shots before reloading -- I think it was a box of truth where they were shooting 00 buck or maybe another study and anything at 25 foot and beyond only one or two pellets struck a man sized target... Both inaccurate on target and what's beyond it... And buckshot also isn't the best at turning cover into concealment. So you're either switching loads between slugs and shot, or committing one way or the other...
9mm more reliability penetrates drywall, etc, if you need it too -- a potential drawback, but a benefit as well. My home, I'm shooting away from sleeping areas on 9/10 invasion/defense scenarios.
Now 5.56 is less likely to penetrate more layers of drywall, but it's also LOUD indoors. Sub 12" barrels equivalent to flash bang grenades is volume and concussion.
The more I think about shotguns, the more I think a marine deck clearing or trench clearing or last ditch defense or zombie scenario is ideal for the weapon. Put a duck bill and run #4 in it, and it really can't be matched in those niches -- as a mobile, multi-use claymore; a good weapon to include as a part of greater unit, not standalone...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hOa24Sob8w
I sure as heck wouldn't want to face a shotgun w/in 10 or even 25 yards due to them being so devastating, so the intimidation portion is definitely there but from a defender perspective, if facing more than one or two bad guys alone you're under-gunned (especially if their weapons reach further than your shotgun and they stay beyond 25 yards), unless the head game of knowing that one of them will get the business end of the shotgun stops them... But do you bet your life on that?
Ultimately, the shotgun works great as an all around hunting/sporting firearm, but I personally have a hard time placing it into a general purpose defensive role. And from an ammo weight/return perspective here too, much of what a shotgun does can be done more efficiently (by ammo weight/materials/cost) with a 22lr.
I'm afraid I've completely derailed this thread. Sorry.
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OK, forgive the noob question but I am totally new to rifles...
I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?
s0nspark - sorry for the long diatribe, thought that you were new to guns altogether, which scanning through a 2nd time realize you aren't...
Feel free to disregard 1/2 of my long post, haha.
An added plus of a pistol carbine (I don't currently own any glocks, but the 33rd glock mags are reliable hence my choice there) is ammunition commonality with your handguns.
More to your needs:
VZ58s are a great starter centerfire rifle cartridge IMO due to relatively mild rifle recoil (compared to AK and full powered rifle cartridges like the .308), good ergos (back to the good bones part -- has been, fairly I think, described as the M1 Carbine of the Warsaw Pact), and the cheap cost of ammo relative to 5.56 (cheaper by 1/3rd) and very cheap cost relative to other common rifle calibers (steel .308 ammo is over twice as expensive per round), excepting rimfire. You can also hunt hogs and deer humanely with this caliber as well, which IMO you really can't with 5.56.
So inside the home defense exclusive (or something to teach recoil shy wife/kids/new shooters on), look at a pistol carbine/subgun with stock "rifle" like the sub2k.
If wanting to move into full power rifle shooting, take a hard look at the VZ58. Running 154gr rounds, it's 90% of the 30-30 Winchester power and very similar trajectory, etc, otherwise; lever action 30-30s that have been a dominant deer rifle among American sportsmen for generations. Lighter rounds fly faster, flatter, and have been long proven to be great protection from human predators.
Kids and women can shoot the VZ58 too:
http://youtu.be/j4hlzZsvNlU
http://olegvolk.net/blog/2011/09/24/shooting-well-at-age-11/
Even under full auto:
http://youtu.be/aAH-S4PaVo4
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s0nspark - sorry for the long diatribe, thought that you were new to guns altogether, which scanning through a 2nd time realize you aren't...
Feel free to disregard 1/2 of my long post, haha.
Hehe ... no worries :) I actually enjoyed the read - it confirmed some of my feelings about all of this.
I should have been more clear when I said "home defense" - I really only meant outdoors. I prefer a pistol for indoor use (and am researching adding a suppressor at some point... I am rather fond of being able to hear stuff *grin*)
I prefer 7.62 as a caliber - my chief concern is ergonomics with the vz.58. I have yet to see one in person and just don't know if it would work for me.
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If you're a lefty, the ergos are perfect, except there's not tactical bolt release option (but charging handle is support hand side).
If you're a righty, you can have essentially set your VZ58 to run with all the same speed mods as any new production rifle, depending on your needs.
The main ergonomic thing that most Americans notice is the short stock length... It gets serviceable with the AK grenade launcher pad that adds another inch -- cheap UTG on amazon or the better one that Apex sells.
I have two actually.
This one is a softer rubber: http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Model-Combat-Butt-Pad/dp/B002TUSK06
This one is a harder rubber but comes w/ a strap: https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/2519
Slightly different grip nubs on the back too, so possibly one is for wood stocks and one is for for folders?
I put the strap on the softer rubber one since I decided that the softer provides better recoil absorption but YMMV. First had the softer and decided I wanted to try one with the velcro strap for a cleaner look than the paracord I'd been using...
Update:
Looked at the Apex one, it came in a guntec USA package: http://guntecusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_85&product_id=254
The Amazon came in a UTG package, so look like different products.
FSE's page tells you more about it being modeled after a soviet grenade launching buttpad (and theirs might be a third addition, or the same one guntec is repackaging):
http://www.fseusa.com/product_info.php?products_id=339
(http://www.zahal.org/files/images/products/CSA/vz_butt_pad_1.jpg)
I got one of the buttpads like Zahal is selling on ebay (here is an example: http://www.zahal.org/products/butt-stock-pad-for-original-vz-58-folding-stock?path_parent=153451 )
Basically, it's cheap somewhat soft plastic like bargain brand tupperware lids. Maybe adds 1/8-1/4" to the length of pull. Other than the small nubs for grip, I really don't see the point. It allows the stock to fold and looks more substantial in pics, but save your $.
My advice is to go w/ the Apex one above for the folding stock. Higher quality, better made, and cushions recoil but w/o all the bounce of the softer one. I'd recommend only running the softer UTG one on your fixed stocks as the Apex one with a more scalloped stock attachment hole and being denser rubber is less likely to fit.
Or you can spend $100-125 to configure your stock pretty much anyway you want it with Stormwerkz adapters. With the metal folder, just wrap it in paracord and junk the Century AK Slant for a VZ specific muzzle device and you'll rock and roll with it.
The other complaint is the stock grip being too small, and there are several larger in the $40 range that fix that problem easily.
The M1 Carbine of the Warsaw pact world is a fair statement. It's a light rifle, fast and natural pointing, and good sight picture (I'd recommend a red dot on this for sure, and if you're able to hand pic your rifle, I'd recommend one with the eared front sight -- the loops seem to be the most common in these latest century releases and unfortunately the post ends about 2/3rds up the loop and my eyes naturally go to the middle of the front sight hood loop, rather than the sight post which is further up).
If you want to lego out your rifle and precision shoot, an AR is probably better. But if you want a w/in 250 meter carbine that still allows for substantial customization, has a few MOA accuracy with your 3-4 MOA reddot or irons and a harder hitting and cheap learner round, then the VZ58 is probably for you. Compared to AKs, the aftermarket upgrade production selection is probably more robost IMO, albeit more expensive. AK owners in the US still overwhelmingly have the "why would I spend money upgrading an AK" mentality (or they're busy fixing poorly made cheap AKs so their rifles too have that legendary reliability); whereas, the VZ58 is so close to perfection, the mods seem to progress more naturally.
(The one AK mod outside of rails that's VZ equivalent is the Galil mag release which allows for the triggerfinger, right handed, to drop the mag. They do have bolt hold opens but they aren't last shot so really only serve to prove it's clear at the range...)
For the why of the 7.62x39 and it's awesomeness w/in 200m, take a look at/a google of the 300BLK arguments over 5.56. Everything except the subsonic rounds being common applies, and the ammo cost is much lower than 300BLK -- if you can find it, 300BLK has been running 80 cents or so per round so the folks I know shooting it are reloading (they're still running 30-40 cents per round on components alone), and I don't have the time for that right now. And then take a look at the requirements of a modern battle rifle -- stuff like ambi controls, last shot bolt hold open, tactical bolt release, light weight, piston, preferably short stroke as cleanest and more accurate than long stroke (that the VZ58's action is entirely linear on a plane parallel to the barrel is a plus too), the ability to mount optics and other tacticool mods, etc. The VZ58 either has them or aftermarket can support them to the extent they're prudent for a minimal investment. If you like any other intermediate caliber battle rifle, you'll like the VZ58.
Due to the action and ejection port, the VZ58 doesn't have a full flat top rail and we can't get a full length foreend quad rail... Those are the only 2 things the AR guys can say that the VZ doesn't have/can't support that the AR does. We also get less FTEs than the AR guys due to our large ejection port, and I don't think the full length quad rails are critical...
AR guys also ding the VZ58 on its sights (legitimate, but VZ iron sights are more than minute of man accurate), and the rock in mags (I actually prefer the positive lock in to a rock versus the straight insert, seen several ARs crap mags immediately after insertion due to a less than positive lock).
AKs just can't compare on ergonomics. Their primary sell is one of proven superior reliability to all other weapons systems -- but I think the VZ58 is just as reliable. The VZ58 *might* need its springs -- striker, recoil, and piston -- changed more often but I haven't fired enough rounds to verify this with certainty. Otherwise, they're even here from my experience.
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s0nspark - sorry for the long diatribe, thought that you were new to guns altogether, which scanning through a 2nd time realize you aren't...
Feel free to disregard 1/2 of my long post, haha.
Hehe ... no worries :) I actually enjoyed the read - it confirmed some of my feelings about all of this.
I should have been more clear when I said "home defense" - I really only meant outdoors. I prefer a pistol for indoor use (and am researching adding a suppressor at some point... I am rather fond of being able to hear stuff *grin*)
I prefer 7.62 as a caliber - my chief concern is ergonomics with the vz.58. I have yet to see one in person and just don't know if it would work for me.
I'll cover the ergonomics here on the vz.58 for you.
Around 7 pounds with a paratrooper folding stock and Wood Impregnated Plastic furniture
its been the most maneuverable rifle I've owned. it's just really sleek and light weight.
It beats an SKS and the AK47 or 74.
Gripe #1 Small pistol grip. Pinky finger tend to hang over.
Gripe #2 Poor cheek weld with a paratrooper folding stock.
Gripe #3 Fore grip Wood Impregnated Plastic gets hot quick.
All those things are minor though and can be fixed up.
You really should czech one out. You don't know what your missing. :)
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Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
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Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
I try and avoid those debates.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38510.0
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Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
Don't start that one again! ::)
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Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
Don't start that one again! ::)
LOL sorry... It was an honest question :)
If anyone wants to PM me their strong opinion one way or the other I would be interested to hear.
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Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
I try and avoid those debates.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38510.0
Thanks for that.
I know absolutely nothing about either company and next to nothing about the products ... I'm just trying to do some due diligence before purchasing. Money is a factor but I am content to save and wait if the benefits dictate that. Above all this will be my only rifle for some time so I just want to pick something solid :)
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Well I just picked up a century, I'll let you know how it goes. :P
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For those of you ordering without kits, Cheaper Than Dirt has a great deal on bayonets. $14.93 per, plus about that in shipping and handling regardless of quantity... Yes, S&H is expensive, and yes, I also have major CTD gripes, but their surplus pricing can't be beat.
I just ordered yesterday and got today, but one is long tang and one is short tang. Long tang bayonet is in very good condition, and its scabbard is new. Short tang is also in very good condition and scabbard is the same. Hard to tell if both bayonet's wear is from storage or use... Regardless, worth ordering a couple to see what you get, and selling whatever you don't want for more than you paid for it on ebay...
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-560
ALSO, CTD has the fantastic Czech sleep system in stock again for $11.97. I ordered two of those as well with this order and have 2 from a previous order (think they were in the $20 range then...) and got two different versions with this order. The older is more of a tan/brown (the czech brown color) and comes with a wool blend blanket and a linen liner -- newer is more olive drab and comes with a polyester blanket and linen liner as well. These have a very mild surplus smell that washes out when you launder with with vinegar. The outer bag is rubberized on the interior bottom and exterior is a tent like vinyl. For the price, it can't be beat. Considering the S&H barely nudges when adding, why not get?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MLT-4951
Also, I saw this ridiculous CZ pistol bayonet on their front page that's CZ-USA branded... Sharing for a laugh.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/8-CZ-11900
EDIT: They also have USGI nylon slings for $6 if you need a starter sling for your VZ or any rifle -- it'll be more comfortable than the thinner genuine Czech slings: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MIL-2172
And their military surplus link: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/CategoryListing.aspx?catid=125
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Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
I try and avoid those debates.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38510.0
Thanks for that.
I know absolutely nothing about either company and next to nothing about the products ... I'm just trying to do some due diligence before purchasing. Money is a factor but I am content to save and wait if the benefits dictate that. Above all this will be my only rifle for some time so I just want to pick something solid :)
What I did was read, read and read some more. I think I read just about every post here
and also at http://www.canadiangunnutz.com Watched a lot of video to on You Tube.
529 for the American vz.58 aka C.A.I. vz2008 was a really good deal at the time in
my mind I just couldn't pass up.
I'm basically testing the platform out to see if I really want to stay with it.
So far so good. For a long time I wanted a VEPR AK but I may just stay with the vz.58
for a number of reason such as...
Weighs 7 pounds
7.62x39
Milled Receiver
30 round mags with Bolt Hold Open built in.
Bayonet
Many Butt Stock Options
Threaded Barrel for Muzzle Brakes / Flash Hider and Suppressors.
Bolt Hold Open Button on Receiver.
Striker Fired
Short Stroke Gas Piston System
Simple Trigger Group Design
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I ordered one the other day when I saw it on sale on psa website. Funny I've been a member here for a while, big cz75 clone fan, and most of my posts are in that regard. Can't wait to get the vz2008. I have a couple of aks (yugo and maadi) and look forward to this lighter weight rifle in the same caliber and similar looks, although functionally completely different. I am mainly into ars, have a couple, and in the middle of building another, hence reason I was on psa's website.
Anyway, glad to see there is a section here all about the vz58, looks like I gotta lot of reading to do. Can't wait for it to ship. Thanks for all the great info.
Darin.
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I'm honestly thinking of "investing" in buying some at this price. Save them for a rainy day, when they may well sell for 2-3x the price in 5 - 10 years, with little to no risk they will lose value. Worst case scenario, you have a few extra VZs!
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Has anyone's VZ shipped yet from the sale? Ordered mine Monday and its still "processing" (even though they charged my card last week). On their website it says allow up to 5 days for shipping and right below that it says allow for 15 days lol. Confusing. :o
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I could also not resist getting my second VZ at that price. Ordered on Monday the ninth also, just got notified that it shipped today.
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I could also not resist getting my second VZ at that price. Ordered on Monday the ninth also, just got notified that it shipped today.
Did they shoot you an email? Im getting tired of checking their site 5 times a day.
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Just fyi -- they're now showing sold out.
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I've seen them come in and out of stock a couple of times recently. Back out again.
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Yup, and free shipping (over $100) through tonight. It's getting more and more difficult not to get a third one (what for?).
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PSA just got them back in stock. Great deal for $399. Ordered one last Thursday and awaiting delivery to my FFL.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html
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Good Lord, PSA has more than 2700 of them. I wonder how parts kits Century bought and how many VZ2008's have been sold so far.
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Good Lord, PSA has more than 2700 of them. I wonder how parts kits Century bought and how many VZ2008's have been sold so far.
I am really curious as well.
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Hey everyone, first post.
Just ordered my first vz 58 from PSA.
pretty stoked!
Is there anything I should be looking out for especially when inspecting the rifle? I'm completely new to this platform. I'm familiar with Ak's but the vz seems like a different beast...
cheers.
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Hey everyone, first post.
Just ordered my first vz 58 from PSA.
pretty stoked!
Is there anything I should be looking out for especially when inspecting the rifle? I'm completely new to this platform. I'm familiar with Ak's but the vz seems like a different beast...
cheers.
Yeah it is a completely different rifle. While you are waiting you should look at all this stuff.
Also I recommend you read through all the posts here. You'll learn a lot. I know I did. :)
http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/
http://www.novarata.net/vz58-pictorial.php
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf97wuxy3P8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQMh85CnCZE
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Thanks!
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Related to the earlier 9mm discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34
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Broke down and ordered the first VZ2008 for the collection from PSA. The low price got to me and one could probably sell for more than purchase in just a few years.
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I also pulled the trigger on the PSA deal. I figured I'd never see them at that price again and I think I was right. Less than a week later they're out of stock.(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w176/dani1083_2007/20140908_103436_zpslofthk33.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/dani1083_2007/media/20140908_103436_zpslofthk33.jpg.html)
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Back in stock and well stocked. Same deal as before.
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I have two already, should I buy one more or two?
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Back in stock and well stocked. Same deal as before.
They got a shipment of about 1,000 abd already down to 960ish. At this pace I'd give about 2-3 weeks of availability tops. Kudos to PSA for not jacking up the price or changing contents.
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Back in stock and well stocked. Same deal as before.
They got a shipment of about 1,000 abd already down to 960ish. At this pace I'd give about 2-3 weeks of availability tops. Kudos to PSA for not jacking up the price or changing contents.
The saga continues! ;) If PSA just got a shipment of 1000, I'm thinking that Vz2008 production somehow is continuing.
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I picked up another today because most likely this time next year they will not be available at the clearance price.
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The saga continues! ;) If PSA just got a shipment of 1000, I'm thinking that Vz2008 production somehow is continuing.
I'm still convinced they're going to run out sooner than later -- actually surprised to see these pop back up. Rumors from Canada are that there is a Mounty-compliant VZ2008 is being manufactured for that market and due this year. Once, or if, that happens, I think the US stocks will largely dry up -- they can sell in Canada for 2x what they do here due to no AK competition other than perhaps those Sig rifles which I believe were in 5.56 and are now purely restricted.
Maybe the PSA stock is just what Century's contractually obligated to run w/ subcontractors until the Canada market/approvals opens up?
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Their stock is now between 825-850
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I contacted PSA and Century about more supply as soon as they ran out because my buddy missed the sale. PSA could not say if or when while Century said they still had some left. It's nothing more than a function of their website because I believe Century does the stocking and shipping. The real question is how many parts kits were imported and are there any left to export from Europe?
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The real question is how many parts kits were imported and are there any left to export from Europe?
Good question. I believe about 1,000,000 VZ 58's were made over the years. How many of those are still in use with the Slovakian military? How many were given away to Iraq and Afghanistan? How many remain in Somalia, Vietnam, or Cuba? How many were demilled and reconfigured for the commercial market?
I estimate that about 10,000 - 15,000 VZ 2008's have been sold in the last year. Ten-thousand is a tiny sliver of one million, but it's impossible to tell how big a piece it is of remaining stock. Maybe this batch PSA just got is the last of it. Or maybe Century will keep turning them out for the next five years, especially considering that beyond the one million rifles produced, there were an unknown number of spare parts and armorer kits produced -- the very meat of the Century guns. I don't, however, think that they're going to get any less expensive, but then I thought that when I bought my first one for $500.
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$300 for a nice & light semi-auto 7.62 x 39 rifle and then another $100 for accessories is still the best buy I have seen anywhere.
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Ugg, I soooo want to get another one of these. I talked myself into waiting, and was kind of glad that they sold out. Now here they are back again, and I'm tempted to deal with the wife's wrath after the fact...
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Ugg, I soooo want to get another one of these. I talked myself into waiting, and was kind of glad that they sold out. Now here they are back again, and I'm tempted to deal with the wife's wrath after the fact...
Easier to ask forgivenesses than to ask for permission:)
No pressure lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ugg, I soooo want to get another one of these. I talked myself into waiting, and was kind of glad that they sold out. Now here they are back again, and I'm tempted to deal with the wife's wrath after the fact...
Easier to ask forgivenesses than to ask for permission:)
No pressure lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
At the rate they are going at PSA you will only have to resist 2-3 weeks. ;D
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Buying another is cheaper than a drug habit. You will definitely look back 10 years from now and talk about the deal you passed on if you don't. I didn't "need" another, but a nice mini arsenal will be nice to pass down to the kid.
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What's one of these century builds weigh? Anyone that can answer this.
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7 lbs. Noticeably lighter than an AK.
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This morning they had just over 725 left. 10 minutes ago their page does not even list the VZ2008 (in or out of stock). Anybody know what happened?
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Yes, link is dead: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html
And here's the slick guns listing that shows out of stock too: http://www.slickguns.com/product/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-762x39-ri1554-x-39999
Maybe another vendor bought their entire stock? Maybe they had a delivery delay and listed when ordered, not when they received the items in stock?
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Damm, I'm glad I ordered 2 last night....
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Classic Firearms still has them, but their price is a bit higher: http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc#
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Classic Firearms still has them, but their price is a bit higher: http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc#
Yup but 499 is still a great deal for what you are getting
and you don't have to wait 3 weeks to get it.
You could always buy a WASR 10! :D
If I owned a Czech Point and saw these I still get one and shoot
the hell out it and save the Czech Point vz.58 the abuse.
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I ordered one more bringing to a total of 3 in the collection.
(https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#folders/0B2i1-MB_rHl9SFJhaldNM2J2dUk)
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Classic Firearms still has them, but their price is a bit higher: http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc#
Yup but 499 is still a great deal for what you are getting
and you don't have to wait 3 weeks to get it.
You could always buy a WASR 10! :D
If I owned a Czech Point and saw these I still get one and shoot
the hell out it and save the Czech Point vz.58 the abuse.
I don't need a vz2008, my czechpoint vz58 been taking abuse since 2008, and just as accurate today and never had one problem. By the way I did buy a cugir built 1063m over the vz2008.
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Ha, a wasr. Pretty good guns I used to have the x39, sold it for a wasr2 in 545, and it has the same heavy feel but it shoots a lighter faster round which I like. I have a Czechpoint with the skeleton stock which I really like, being a bit longer than the standard issue wood impregnated reddish stocks. But I do also like my 2008 with the folding stock. I got a nice muzzle brake, bayo, and found a nice bipod for less than half what they are selling now for. It shoots pretty nice. I put an ak buttpad on the folder and I get a little more length and that helps. Still need to paracord or something if I want to really sight it in. I hit what I shoot at most of the time so it works for me.
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Classic Firearms still has them, but their price is a bit higher: http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc#
Yup but 499 is still a great deal for what you are getting
and you don't have to wait 3 weeks to get it.
You could always buy a WASR 10! :D
If I owned a Czech Point and saw these I still get one and shoot
the hell out it and save the Czech Point vz.58 the abuse.
I don't need a vz2008, my czechpoint vz58 been taking abuse since 2008, and just as accurate today and never had one problem. By the way I did buy a cugir built 1063m over the vz2008.
Good for you.
So stop bother people here and on other message boards (http://www.akfiles.com) that DO need a vz.2008.
Blocked
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Note that excessive and disruptive brand bashing will NOT be tolerated here, as someone has just found out. >:(
Back on topic, please! :)
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Classic is now @ $519.
But, you're still only paying ~$400 for the standard "rifle and one mag" once you account for the value of the accessory pack. Still a good deal, but unlike PSA, they aren't giving them away.
IMO, add a $50 tab to the VZ2008 and you have 85%+ of the $1200 CSA rifle for ~30 to 40% of the cost. And then just run the weapon to get rid of some of the teflon grit on contact surfaces, and it's sufficiently "tuned." There are some other items like new springs and CNC warrior pistons that wouldn't be a bad idea either, but that's all that's really required for reliability and superior accuracy to other systems in this caliber. (Mentioning only for information/a somewhat even-keeled perspective, not to start a debate.)
WASR or other entry level AKs come in at $500-$600 these days -- and while they typically run, there's a reason Rifle Dynamics and others have $300-$600 AK tuning packages to bring these entry level builds up speed... Nothing wrong with the AK route, but weight alone for me, they fill more of a "rifle" role than the VZ58 and variants "carbine" role. Believe there are some threads here and elsewhere on AK vs VZ comparisons. In my opinion, the VZ wins out all things considered for my needs. YMMV. (Again, mentioning only for information/a somewhat even-keeled perspective, not to start a debate.)
Mentioned before, but IMO the best 7.62x39 deals right now are the VZ2008s and the AES10B RPK, both Century stamped -- AES10B just converted from sporter configuration by Century, built in Romania. Very different roles/niches (heavy barrel RPK weighs nearly twice as much as the VZ), but I picked up the AES10B a couple months back from JG sales for $579 w/ a drum mag -- everyone else has the same weapon for $700+...
I also want the CZ 7.62x39 bolt action carbine, but it's expensive, yet awesome... My only other 7.62x39 interest is in taking one of those Rifle Dynamics AK builder courses, hopefully next year.
The PSA deal I've been anticipating an immediate $100 jump in valuation if you held onto them for a couple months (which has happened now that they're out of stock and everyone else is $100 more), and I think $500-600 on these rifles +$200-$300 over purchase in a year or two is certainly a fair expectation for future valuation -- regardless of some of the inflation, etc, factors that have been mentioned here.
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Contacted PSA CS to get an update on my shipping date, see text below.
"?Our Compliance Department is working to get all orders for the VZ2008 rifles out today. You should receive a UPS tracking number within 24-48 hours."
Best,
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They're back. At least 150 left at the time of this post. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html
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Just saw that too. 168 right now actually.
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Down to 118
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I don't understand why we don't have these in larger numbers, meaning
it's not a complicated rifle to manufacture. Not in this day and age anyways.
And I'd say it's a simplistic yet ingenious design.
But it is a lot easier to make an AKM so maybe that's why?
How many vz.58 in original configuration does Czech Point sell in a year?
It can't be more then a few thousand?
Anyone know?
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There's one less now. Just joined the forum because, in a few days, I'll have a new VZ58 in the collection. Can't wait.
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My buddy finally ordered his today and my third should be delivered tomorrow. We are going hog hunting with them.
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There's one less now. Just joined the forum because, in a few days, I'll have a new VZ58 in the collection. Can't wait.
Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on your new Vz2008! :)
Be sure to post in the new members section.
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19 left on this batch ;)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6cGZhRc8r4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6cGZhRc8r4)
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One left as off 1304 Central. 10/10/14
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All gone now.
Just got back from my dealer, and they ordered three, including another for me, must have just barely made it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J18D_L8Jbnc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J18D_L8Jbnc)
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It's back....almost ;)
Century Arms VZ2008, includes 5 Magazines, Mag Pouch, Cleaning Kit, Sling, but WITHOUT BAYONET
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/ (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/)
576 available ;D
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Have the later sale guns been well functioning? Being a newb, it does seem like the newer production ones are good to go?
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Have the later sale guns been well functioning? Being a newb, it does seem like the newer production ones are good to go?
Bought my 2 in the last batch and they seem to be functioning well.
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Have the later sale guns been well functioning? Being a newb, it does seem like the newer production ones are good to go?
Bought my 2 in the last batch and they seem to be functioning well.
Good to know! I just ordered one. I have missed the last three batches, and if this is only missing the bayonet, that isn't a huge deal.
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Have the later sale guns been well functioning? Being a newb, it does seem like the newer production ones are good to go?
Bought my 2 in the last batch and they seem to be functioning well.
Good to know! I just ordered one. I have missed the last three batches, and if this is only missing the bayonet, that isn't a huge deal.
Yeah I see them all the time for sale at places like eBay , gunbroker. ohioordnanceworks, czechpoint-usa
I wouldn't worry about it.
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You don't need a bayonet as long as you get the sling and 5 mags. The bayonet is a curio unless you plan on going into close combat.
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It is a neat curio though. Mine is obviously old but it has never been sharpened. Even without the bayonet these rifles are still a bargain.
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You don't need a bayonet as long as you get the sling and 5 mags. The bayonet is a curio unless you plan on going into close combat.
Gotta keep the Ebola carriers out of the ol' Ponderosa.. ;D
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FYI, Bayonets actually used on a rifle are never too sharp. If very sharp, they will stick in a bone and make recovery difficult. If it is used as a tool, then sharp is OK.
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Bayonets weren't intended to be sharpened. I sharpened one of mine for utility reasons but leaving the rest as are.
I've heard a couple different reasons why -- 1) that non sharpened bayonets create more ragged wounds that are harder to repair (tearing rather than cutting), 2) that non-sharpened bayonets are less likely to cut into bone and become stuck, 3) that military powers as be didn't want soldiers using their bayonets as general purpose knives and by using them accordingly damaging/misplacing them, and 4) that bayonets made of soft metal were less likely to snap than hard metal but the soft metal didn't get/hold a good edge for regular use.
More modern bayonet/fighting knife combos that are sharpened seem to come about after the recognition that modern infantrymen are unlikely to use their knives as bayonets, but still keep the bayonet lug on the knives as a just in case thing to avoid negative publicity/CYA for generals/politicians in the event of logistic/supply failure -- the troops run out of ammo... And the justifiable concern of both soldiers and leadership with overall combat load weight (prob moreso soldiers than leadership), it makes sense to only require that soldiers carry one bladed weapon.
That said, I don't think that the US Army even teaches use of bayonets these days. Believe it's just now "combatives" predominantly hand to hand focused.
However, I question the "curio" logic though -- British forces have executed two bayonet charges that I'm aware of in both Iraq and Afghanistan (unlike the US more of their troops seem to be more thoroughly trained in light infantry tactics including "outdated" tactics like bayonet fighting (and they have shorter bullpups!):
Helmand Province Afghanistan, 2011 or 2012: www.gov.uk/government/news/bayonet-charge-foils-enemy-ambush
Basra Iraq, 2004: liveleak.com/view?i=0bd_1249524865 (http://liveleak.com/view?i=0bd_1249524865)
If you're curious about the British vs US light infantry tactics, you should check out Max Velocity's books. He served as both a British Paratrooper and Army Ranger; born British and now a US citizen and discusses in some detail. Dont' recall the specifics offhand. He has a blog and website as well.
Further in regards to "curio" infantry tactics -- I think the base assumption of vehicle mounted and engagement of enemy hostiles primarily by stand-off support forces focus of current US infantry tactics is a mistake... I'll save the tangent other than save very few US soldiers are taught more than the basics of classic infantry maneuver and that vulnerability/assumption of always having technology/air/sea/tank/artillery support and/or superiority for our troops will eventually lead to the US' own Dien Bien Phu (20k French/Friendly Indig forces killed/captured by 65k Chinese/Viet Minh troops) be it in current conflicts on forthcoming ones (suppose one could argue that the Battle of Kamdesh in Afghanistan was essentially a modern day Dien Bien Phu just on a smaller scale -- just like Operation Redwing or Battle of Shok Valley as modern day "Black Hawk Downs" or the Second Battle of Fallujah as a modern day Battle of Hue City). Regardless, tactically I think military leadership is failing our troops just like the have (IMO) w/ the M4 carbine, the Army UCP camo, the F35 boondoggle, the attempted A10 scrap, etc... Or at a minimum that lack of proper tactics training will lead to more US casualties when the full force of America's battlefield dominance/technology cannot be immediately brought to bear against enemy aggressors...
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561 left ;)
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523
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54321
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501 :)
Interesting how this current batch doesn't seem to be selling as quickly as PSA's last one. Don't think it is the lack of bayonet, perhaps there was a small bubble as folks tried to get one before PSA ran out on their "last" shipment. And now that their newest "last" shipment started with over 570 rifles, it's not such a pressing issue.
In any case, still a nice deal for a nice rifle. Remember, 2 is 1 and 1 is none. And 3 is best. But 4 is bestest :-)
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501 :)
Interesting how this current batch doesn't seem to be selling as quickly as PSA's last one. Don't think it is the lack of bayonet, perhaps there was a small bubble as folks tried to get one before PSA ran out on their "last" shipment. And now that their newest "last" shipment started with over 570 rifles, it's not such a pressing issue.
In any case, still a nice deal for a nice rifle. Remember, 2 is 1 and 1 is none. And 3 is best. But 4 is bestest :-)
I think it is a common occurrence with buyers. Aim surplus had two small batches of Pus that sold out extremely quick, but then they received a large batch and it has been selling very slowly.
A lot of people buy thinking "I better get it now before it sells out and I can't get one" but when a company has quite a few for sale or puts up multiple bathes for sale, people aren't as rushed to buy
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Get yours before Hillary wins the WH and tries to ban them.
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Get yours before Hillary wins the WH and tries to ban them.
Hopefully with the world being a dangerous disaster due to our current President's governing and supporters electing him on "hope and change" will result in lessons learned and other choices made at the ballot box.
BUT considering that presidential election "swing voters" are folks more concerned on a daily basis about pressing issues like twerking and cat videos, real housewives, the kardashians, and take political advice from their favorite celebrities/hip hop artists, can't say that I have a lot of confidence that what's happening in the real world will affect these folks' political persuasions...
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Where else is there a "new" 7.62 x 39 rifle for $399?
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Where else is there a "new" 7.62 x 39 rifle for $399?
Absolutely nowhere! Even basic WASR AK's are in the $500 to $600 range and they're not that great so as to justify the difference.
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And it's also not a Kalash or variant, which is positive when it comes to bans. Just ask Canada...
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501 :)
Interesting how this current batch doesn't seem to be selling as quickly as PSA's last one. Don't think it is the lack of bayonet, perhaps there was a small bubble as folks tried to get one before PSA ran out on their "last" shipment. And now that their newest "last" shipment started with over 570 rifles, it's not such a pressing issue.
In any case, still a nice deal for a nice rifle. Remember, 2 is 1 and 1 is none. And 3 is best. But 4 is bestest :-)
Maybe it means the shipping will be faster on these?.....
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....I know.
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Where else is there a "new" 7.62 x 39 rifle for $399?
I have seen some Yugo N Paps for $499 here lately. Those are new rifles, only the magwells and trigger groups are modified by Century.
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467 :D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0B3drryzVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0B3drryzVI)
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Got my UPS notice Saturday, should be getting it this week.
Side question: does anyone shoot a Yugo M67 surplus? The cleaning looks simpler than an AK...
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Yugo M67 ammo is corrosive. VZ2008s don't have chrome lined barrels.
So you have to make sure to clean it day of and then the day following to ensure you get no corrosion.
Personally, I stock primarily Golden Tiger FMJ (most accurate/consistent 7.62x39, thinner jacket deforms more readily and tumbles sooner, lacquer cases and sealed necks and primers, higher velocity than most 7.62x39; SG Ammo is supposed to have more in come January) and Barnaul 125 GR soft points as my primary bulk ammo reserves (US Made soft points perform better but are more than 2x as expensive as the Russian SPs). For home defense, I use/keep a couple hundred rounds the Hornady SST polymer tip stuff. And I do keep some of the Tula/Herters ~154 GR soft points for hunting hogs on hand as well.
Biggest gripe for me is that increasingly the lacquer cased stuff is much harder to find, excepting Golden Tiger and Monarch FMJ (sold by Academy but ~$1 per 20 more expensive than Barnual, who makes it, polymer coated cases)...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z-p96N6bxs
Can't find this or other links through quick searches (have reviewed before), but here are some pics:
Basically, polymer corrodes nearly at the rate of bare steel, silver bear a little better but not by much, and then the lacquer is multiples better. Will eventually corrode but much much better.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.204956392849501.55979.200640669947740
http://youtu.be/napCSMHHe_w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gknVTUd7tY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfLZYnhT-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF89dysghUs
Yugo M67 gel block, can't find a video:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/RussianWP.jpg)
And don't see 154gr gel block video either. Basically more penetration but less expansion than the 125gr SP.
http://ak47talk.blogspot.com/2010/06/762x39-guide.html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/7.62x39mm/7.62x39mm.htm
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I have Golden Tiger in reserve with my good scotch and the Cubans...:)
I have ran M67 with my SKS's and a Yugo N Pap. I like it because its accurate, consistent, and nothing motivates a guy to clean his rifle like corrosive mil-surp..lol. I had more problems cleaning the N Pap's gas system, the non chrome barrel was not too hard to clean. Just wondered if the open design would be easier to keep up with.
When I got it it was cheaper than commercial. I have some Herters that doesn't shoot too bad, and have used Wolf to some degree, I am just punching paper and steel gongs so penetration is secondary to me. I haven't tried the Hornady, but on occasion if PPU is on sale I will grab a box or two of that for something different.
I haven't shot Barnaul to my knowledge, but that gives me a good excuse to go find some today!
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428
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Well I finally broke down, ordered a VZ2008 from PSA today.
Are these what some folks are referring to as third generation?
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I have Golden Tiger in reserve with my good scotch and the Cubans...:)
I have ran M67 with my SKS's and a Yugo N Pap. I like it because its accurate, consistent, and nothing motivates a guy to clean his rifle like corrosive mil-surp..lol. I had more problems cleaning the N Pap's gas system, the non chrome barrel was not too hard to clean. Just wondered if the open design would be easier to keep up with.
When I got it it was cheaper than commercial. I have some Herters that doesn't shoot too bad, and have used Wolf to some degree, I am just punching paper and steel gongs so penetration is secondary to me. I haven't tried the Hornady, but on occasion if PPU is on sale I will grab a box or two of that for something different.
I haven't shot Barnaul to my knowledge, but that gives me a good excuse to go find some today!
All Wolf these days is Barnaul.
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I have Golden Tiger in reserve with my good scotch and the Cubans...:)
I have ran M67 with my SKS's and a Yugo N Pap. I like it because its accurate, consistent, and nothing motivates a guy to clean his rifle like corrosive mil-surp..lol. I had more problems cleaning the N Pap's gas system, the non chrome barrel was not too hard to clean. Just wondered if the open design would be easier to keep up with.
When I got it it was cheaper than commercial. I have some Herters that doesn't shoot too bad, and have used Wolf to some degree, I am just punching paper and steel gongs so penetration is secondary to me. I haven't tried the Hornady, but on occasion if PPU is on sale I will grab a box or two of that for something different.
I haven't shot Barnaul to my knowledge, but that gives me a good excuse to go find some today!
All Wolf these days is Barnaul.
Aha! Now I know...:)
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378 ;)
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picking mine up today from the crack dealer (FFL).
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This is strange. PSA now has the VZ2008 up for sale with or without the bayonet, both for the usual $399.99. Both appear to be in stock. It must be an oversight on their part, since I can't think of any states where these rifles are legal but bayonets are illegal.
With bayonet:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/century-arms/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html
Without bayonet:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/category/17/
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2 with bayonets left
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This is strange. PSA now has the VZ2008 up for sale with or without the bayonet, both for the usual $399.99. Both appear to be in stock. It must be an oversight on their part, since I can't think of any states where these rifles are legal but bayonets are illegal.
With bayonet:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/century-arms/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html
Without bayonet:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/category/17/
Could be some buyers didnt pass their NICS check, too. Or just returns.
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2 with bayonets left
Make that one.
I decided to try rolling the dice on another century VZ. hopefully i wont get a lemon this time. :)
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No bayos left. 347 left without however.
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picked mine up yesterday. first vz and incredibly impressed. the only thing that looked seriously worn was the sling. Everything else looks like it has never been issued, and the received looks really nicely done. couldn't be more pleased.
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I bought 2 a few months back. Finally got to shoot them a couple of weeks ago and am very impressed. I worry that If I shoot a lot of the copper washed steel jacketed cheap stuff the barrel will wear out in no time.
I want to buy 2 of the chrome lined military barrels from Apex gun parts for future re-barreling but how difficult is that to do? Would I have to ship it off to some specialist to get it done?
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Nitriding is a more durable coating than chrome. Nitriding actually displaces a lot of the thinner chrome jobs done on domestically produced barrels. If you fired it, you can't chrome it I believe. Nitriding can be done on used barrels.
The jackets on bullets themselves are softer than the barrel steel. Most barrel wear occurs at the throat (just past the chamber) and the muzzle due to the heat of propellant gases.
Any barrel wear from the steel jackets is a distant second to propellant gases.
You're ultimately comparing 4000*F exhaust gases to much lower friction heat generated by the barrel/bullet friction.
Disassembly and nitriding a barrel would run ~$300 (hour disassembly, hour assembly, $100 nitride job). Buying a new chromed or nitrided barrel would add at least $50 to that.
Considering that 7.62x39 is full caliber and lower velocity round, the primary cause of barrel wear is lower here than with 5.56 and most other common modern sporting rifle rounds...
I'm not messing with the barrels until I need to rebarrel. I figure optimal accuracy out to ~7.5k rounds or so with double or more that before accuracy drops to the point of concern. Chrome is about times 2 and nitriding is times 2.5+, both over just raw barrel steel.
Surplus barrels I've seen mostly have quite a bit of muzzle crown wear from cleaning regimens and just the thread protection nut used on them. And they're SBR length so require a permanent extension or muzzle device. Which causes rust and is PIA to clean.
Threads of interest:
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=64910.20
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=64303.5
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=65707.5
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=64742.10
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=63073.10
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It's almost cheaper to simply have an additional rifle as back up at these prices than worry about another barrel.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm fully aware of the Melonite, Nitride, or whatever you want to call it and have actually sourced an affordable place to treat guns for me. But I figured that If I can just re-barrel for cheap in the future I wouldn't worry about it.
The lower velocities is a point I hadn't considered. But, I've been going off the test done here - http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ The bore was gone on the rifles that fired Wolf and Brown Bear before they reached 6,000 rounds. And those were hard chrome lined barrels! I really wonder how long it would have taken if the barrels were not lined or nitrided. Even though 7.62x39 is slower it can't be so far behind that low velocities alone will avert the barrel wear.
Here is what I see happening, buy tons of Wolf (because it's the cheapest right now) shoot 5 to 8,000 rounds out of it and totally wear out the barrel. At that point the gun will need to re-barreled or sold for parts. Might work for very short range blasting. That's just my speculation though.
And as for the throat or gas port erosion, that can be averted or at least prolonged significantly by a treatment of Dyna-Bore coat.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm fully aware of the Melonite, Nitride, or whatever you want to call it and have actually sourced an affordable place to treat guns for me. But I figured that If I can just re-barrel for cheap in the future I wouldn't worry about it.
The lower velocities is a point I hadn't considered. But, I've been going off the test done here - http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ The bore was gone on the rifles that fired Wolf and Brown Bear before they reached 6,000 rounds. And those were hard chrome lined barrels! I really wonder how long it would have taken if the barrels were not lined or nitrided. Even though 7.62x39 is slower it can't be so far behind that low velocities alone will avert the barrel wear.
Here is what I see happening, buy tons of Wolf (because it's the cheapest right now) shoot 5 to 8,000 rounds out of it and totally wear out the barrel. At that point the gun will need to re-barreled or sold for parts. Might work for very short range blasting. That's just my speculation though.
And as for the throat or gas port erosion, that can be averted or at least prolonged significantly by a treatment of Dyna-Bore coat.
Did you watch the video in that review? They were rapid firing throughout, to the extent of battlefield/combat conditions. On the 2nd Tula rifle, they set the handguards on fire and cooled it in a mud puddle... Not in the original link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6cwh4IxXSc
To say this is equivalent to how most American's shoot mag after mag would be a vast exaggeration...
Also of note -- 5.56 wears barrel throats faster than 7.62x39 due to its larger case capacity to neck diameter ratio.
Without getting into all the science, rate of fire matters far more than bullet jackets (basically, fissures develop and heat causes small bits of molten metal at the throat to get pushed down the barrel with each bullet or follows the bullet as unburnt powder, etc, abrades the hot and softened -- more rapid fire=hotter and softer barrel=more molten barrel removed w/ each shot and deeper fissures which just further exacerbates).
The ability of barrel to absorb heat also matters more than bullet jackets (this goes to surface area of throat, overall metal quantity of barrel, etc -- how rapidly you can fire/how much damage each shot automatically penalizes the barrel).
Good read: http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/08/how-rifle-barrels-die
If you shoot like they do in the gun test, maybe you'll have 5k accurate barrel life... You can kill a barrel in 1000 rounds I'm sure if you really wanted to... No barrel coating/treatment would add significantly more like if you're purposely doing everything you can to kill your barrel and get it to those temps...
Just ask the target guys/hunters shooting .22-243, .220 Swift, and .22-250 and other overbore -- shooting copper jackets, target guys are lucky to get 1k rounds out of those calibers' barrels whereas hunters are lucky to get 4k (minute of animal accuracy) no matter how slow they shoot.
Ultimately, heat in its various forms is what kills barrels, not jackets. A structurally weakened barrel due to overheat may wear faster with steel jackets than copper when overheated, but again, the heat is the primary cause of wear, not the jackets.
Further, I'd say the standard post-range trip cleaning will do more to degrade your accuracy than will steel jacketed ammo...
The 7.62x39 round was specifically designed for extremely long barrel life. I'd think the VZ2008's barrel would be sufficient for a decade+ of most American's shooting patterns no matter what ammo you choose to shoot.
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Unless you are in some type of law enforcement or Gov sponsored program where they are paying for your ammo...I don't think your going to hurt your barrel. As RSR said the VZ round is easy on barrels.
My friend has an AK from the 80's that we have abused with every bump fire device to come along since then and it now has a slide fire on it. Now let me tell you ammo was Cheap! A drum or 2 and 6 to 10 mags every time it came out. Thats the only reason we had an AK. About 35 years of abuse and he maybe cleans it every 10 years....it still shoots MOA with no key holing.
I have 2 VZ's 3k thru them since last year this time. They will out last me I'm sure... My Son or granddaughter can worry about the barrel.
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Hi folks,
Just joined the forum as I bought two of the PSA VZ2008 rifles last night. I've been a big fan of this design since I bought a few VZ58 kits for $99 each a few years ago. At this price it was a no brainer to get two right up front. Looking forward to playing with them once I pick them up. Where do you see how many of these rifles PSA has left in stock at any given time?
Anyway, glad to be here and looking forward to meeting the community!
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Where do you see how many of these rifles PSA has left in stock at any given time?
Just keep putting larger quantities in until it says "The requested quantity is not available".
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Where do you see how many of these rifles PSA has left in stock at any given time?
Just keep putting larger quantities in until it says "The requested quantity is not available".
Well, that explains something....If someone checking how many are left in inventory by adding a high number of rifles to their cart, then don't clear their cart those rifles may not be available for a period of time...hence the instances where inventory goes from a couple of hundred to non available...maybe I'm wrong tho...
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Where do you see how many of these rifles PSA has left in stock at any given time?
Just keep putting larger quantities in until it says "The requested quantity is not available".
Well, that explains something....If someone checking how many are left in inventory by adding a high number of rifles to their cart, then don't clear their cart those rifles may not be available for a period of time...hence the instances where inventory goes from a couple of hundred to non available...maybe I'm wrong tho...
Nope. Inventory is never deducted until the sale is confirmed. That is why you can have something in your cart and by the time you fill out the credit card info the sale is voided as "Out of Stock"
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Where do you see how many of these rifles PSA has left in stock at any given time?
Just keep putting larger quantities in until it says "The requested quantity is not available".
I really thought that was a joke.
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Nope. Inventory is never deducted until the sale is confirmed. That is why you can have something in your cart and by the time you fill out the credit card info the sale is voided as "Out of Stock"
Different e-checkout systems all handle inventory differently. Most gun sites these days are once paid or once at the payment page...
PSA's appears to only remove once paid.
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ordered mine 10/20 it shipped today so not sure how they do it.
all i know is a have a vz problem!
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Where do you see how many of these rifles PSA has left in stock at any given time?
Just keep putting larger quantities in until it says "The requested quantity is not available".
Well, that explains something....If someone checking how many are left in inventory by adding a high number of rifles to their cart, then don't clear their cart those rifles may not be available for a period of time...hence the instances where inventory goes from a couple of hundred to non available...maybe I'm wrong tho...
Nope. Inventory is never deducted until the sale is confirmed. That is why you can have something in your cart and by the time you fill out the credit card info the sale is voided as "Out of Stock"
I stand corrected!
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Received my non bayonet VZ today from PSA. Great finish on the rifle. The mag pouch was well used, which is cool. The sling is a bit corroded and has some mildew, but not a concern as Im not going for an original look. Overall looks great! Cant wait to fire it tomorrow....:-)
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
I think the tab is a waste of money the current vz's are not having any issues. I bought 8 from PSA and have zero issues on any of them with multiple shooters. As for the magazines most of them are perfect. Of my last 8 purchases 5 of them were band new un issued pouches with the magazine still plastic wrapped and grease covered.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm fully aware of the Melonite, Nitride, or whatever you want to call it and have actually sourced an affordable place to treat guns for me. But I figured that If I can just re-barrel for cheap in the future I wouldn't worry about it.
The lower velocities is a point I hadn't considered. But, I've been going off the test done here - http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ The bore was gone on the rifles that fired Wolf and Brown Bear before they reached 6,000 rounds. And those were hard chrome lined barrels! I really wonder how long it would have taken if the barrels were not lined or nitrided. Even though 7.62x39 is slower it can't be so far behind that low velocities alone will avert the barrel wear.
Here is what I see happening, buy tons of Wolf (because it's the cheapest right now) shoot 5 to 8,000 rounds out of it and totally wear out the barrel. At that point the gun will need to re-barreled or sold for parts. Might work for very short range blasting. That's just my speculation though.
And as for the throat or gas port erosion, that can be averted or at least prolonged significantly by a treatment of Dyna-Bore coat.
Did you watch the video in that review? They were rapid firing throughout, to the extent of battlefield/combat conditions. On the 2nd Tula rifle, they set the handguards on fire and cooled it in a mud puddle... Not in the original link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6cwh4IxXSc
To say this is equivalent to how most American's shoot mag after mag would be a vast exaggeration...
Also of note -- 5.56 wears barrel throats faster than 7.62x39 due to its larger case capacity to neck diameter ratio.
Without getting into all the science, rate of fire matters far more than bullet jackets (basically, fissures develop and heat causes small bits of molten metal at the throat to get pushed down the barrel with each bullet or follows the bullet as unburnt powder, etc, abrades the hot and softened -- more rapid fire=hotter and softer barrel=more molten barrel removed w/ each shot and deeper fissures which just further exacerbates).
The ability of barrel to absorb heat also matters more than bullet jackets (this goes to surface area of throat, overall metal quantity of barrel, etc -- how rapidly you can fire/how much damage each shot automatically penalizes the barrel).
Good read: http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/08/how-rifle-barrels-die
If you shoot like they do in the gun test, maybe you'll have 5k accurate barrel life... You can kill a barrel in 1000 rounds I'm sure if you really wanted to... No barrel coating/treatment would add significantly more like if you're purposely doing everything you can to kill your barrel and get it to those temps...
Just ask the target guys/hunters shooting .22-243, .220 Swift, and .22-250 and other overbore -- shooting copper jackets, target guys are lucky to get 1k rounds out of those calibers' barrels whereas hunters are lucky to get 4k (minute of animal accuracy) no matter how slow they shoot.
Ultimately, heat in its various forms is what kills barrels, not jackets. A structurally weakened barrel due to overheat may wear faster with steel jackets than copper when overheated, but again, the heat is the primary cause of wear, not the jackets.
Further, I'd say the standard post-range trip cleaning will do more to degrade your accuracy than will steel jacketed ammo...
The 7.62x39 round was specifically designed for extremely long barrel life. I'd think the VZ2008's barrel would be sufficient for a decade+ of most American's shooting patterns no matter what ammo you choose to shoot.
Well, the Tula was removed from the test for the most part and the 3 remaining bushmaster carbines were not pushed until the hanguards burned nor were they tossed in muddy water to cool. So what they did to that Spikes Tactical gun is irrelevant.
Although you are correct that all of the guns were run hard, the gun firing Federal ammo was fired the same and the pictures show a lot of erosion.
Here is a direct quote form the test, " As indicated by accuracy testing, the steel cased/bimetal jacketed ammunition caused accelerated wear to the inside of their respective bores. While the barrel of the Federal carbine had plenty of life left, even after 10,000 rounds at extremely high rates of fire, the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels were subjected to the same rates of fire and were completely ?shot out? by 6,000 rounds.
At the end of the test, the chrome lining of the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels was almost gone from the throat forward, and the barrels had effectively become smooth bores, with the rifling near the muzzles acting only as a mild suggestion on the projectiles. A throat erosion gauge could be dropped into the bore from the muzzle end with absolutely no resistance.
The bottom line is that for both Brown Bear and Wolf, the lands had been completely ground down to the diameter of the grooves. What?s still visible is the differences in material, for the grooves have some chrome lining left. Longitudinal scratches are visible inside the bore, and it is believed that they were caused by the projectiles meandering their way down the bore in a casual manner before exiting and tumbling in a fairly random direction."
The gun firing Federal showed acceptable accuracy beyond 10,000 rounds, but the guns with steel jacketed ammo showed significant accuracy loss by the 6,000 round mark.
So to re-cap! All 3 guns were fired the same way. All 3 had a great deal of erosion, (The Federal gun looked even worse) yet the steel jacketed ammo guns lost accuracy very quick compared to the copper jacket ammo gun. Basically the steel jacket wore down the rifling and was the largest contributor to the accuracy loss. Not so much the erosion.
This seems to be contrary to what you stated. It appears that bullet jacket material is more harmful than rates of fire or ability to absorb heat.
7.62x39 can't be immune to this effect. Though it may be reduced a little and much of the erosion reduced as well. We still have steel on steel down the barrel.
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No, you're ignoring the primary substance of what I said.
Point 1: The rifles were shot at rapid rates of fire as you can see from the video in the link (the Tula rifle treatment replicated the treatment that test rifles had so it is relevant) and if you read the article:
Why Did The Barrels Wear The Way They Did?
The first answer to this question is, ?Because we shot them until they got hot, and then we kept shooting them.?
A saw cuts into the barrel of an AR-15 during the steel vs. brass test.
Due to the position of the front taper pin and the effects of extreme heat over time, the front sight base of the Brown Bear carbine had to be cut off before the barrel could be removed from the upper receiver and sectioned.
The rate of fire definitely contributed to rapid barrel wear. Still, there were other factors which played a major role.
Point 2: When barrels are extremely hot is when bimetal jacket wear will significantly outpace copper as the surface of the bore heats (which means it also softens) which leads to expedited wear.
Point 3: The primary cause of barrel wear is heat. Rapid fire is the single biggest contributor that we can control that expedites barrel wear.
Point 4: 7.62x39 and 5.56 are not equal -- 5.56 has a higher case/powder capacity to bullet diameter ratio which means significantly more throat wear than 7.62x39. Throat wear is a cancer sort of like rust where a small spot just keeps creeping out and expediting overall barrel wear. Also (didn't mention before but), by 16" nearly all 7.62x39 powder has burned, but that's not the case with most 5.56 ammo -- that unburnt powder exacerbates muzzle wear. Further, you need to take into account what type of ammo you're shooting -- most AK ammo is Basically, lessons learned from a different caliber and weapon systems are not direct connections.
And since it was a bunch gun reviewers and an ammo retailer doing this test, not a barrel maker or metallurgist, one should be skeptical of assuming it's 100% accurate and directly applies to your needs. Ammo retailers in particular make more money from higher priced ammo than cheaper...
Feel free to draw what conclusions you wish. I still expect these VZ2008s to be accurate to 10k rounds of moderate use regardless of ammo and hit 20k before losing minute of man. But if you're worried about spend the money to chrome line or nitride it. Your rifle, your call.
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This is about cases, but the same principles apply to the jackets.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/28/debunking-myth-steel-harder-brass/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBAh_8usXBI
Also: https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/posts/516101628401641
I get asked all the time "will bi-metal bullets harm my bore". The answer is no, they won't. Here's why.
Hardened tool steel has a rockwell hardness of 650/700 Brinell. Mild steel has a hardness of 120/130. Bi-metal jackets are made from very soft mild steel. Bores/barrels are at least as hard as tool steel and when chrome plated are even harder.
Steel jacketed bullets are nothing new. The US had steel jacketed bullets in WWII chambered in 30-06 and 45 ACP. The M1 ball and M2 AP rounds of the era used steel jackets over a lead core with a copper wash over the steel -- just like Wolf bi-metal bullets.
Frankford Arsenal conducted a test with steel jacketed 30-06 rounds around 1946 to determine if the rumors that steel jacketed bullets damaged the barrels more than copper jacketed bullets were true. In their testing they found that steel jacketed bullets not only didn't accelerate wear but they also discovered for the first 1000 rounds steel jacketed rounds were actually more accurate! After 1000 rounds the accuracy leveled off to be comparable to the copper jacketed bullets but no evidence of accelerated wear was discovered through 8,000 rounds of testing on their samples.
In short, bi-metal bullets do not do any more damage to your firearms than conventional copper jacketed rounds do. All the claims of chamber wear, throat erosion and barrel wear are unsubstantiated wives tales.
And finally: http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/to-chrome-or-not-to-chrome-myths-and-facts-of-chrome-lined-barrels/
Nowadays, almost all military rifles are universally chrome-lined to protect the rifle barrel from excess erosion. AR-15 rifles are particularly prone to erosion when fired rapidly, in part due to the high velocity of the round, and in part due to the high pressures generated by the cartridge. While it?s not uncommon for military rifles to experience high rates of sustained fire, it?s also not difficult to fire a semiautomatic AR-15 at rates exceeding 100 RPM. Under sustained fully automatic gunfire, or rapid semiautomatic fire, an enormous amount of heat is generated. That heat is what can quickly ruin a barrel.
The leade (the unrifled portion of the barrel just forward of the chamber), as well as the first few inches of rifling, is subject to temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun and pressures exceeding 50,000 PSI. Under slow fire conditions this area is able to cool a sufficient amount in between strings of fire. Under sustained rapid fire however, there is no time for the heat to dissipate and temperatures soar into the thousands of degrees Fahrenheit. This can quickly cause damage by eating away at the rifling, ?burning up the barrel? with the combination of extremely high heat and pressure. Hard chrome-lining the bore protects the leade and rifling with a thin coat of heat and pressure resistant chrome. This greatly extends barrel life in rifles that are fired for prolonged periods in full-auto or rapid fire semiautomatic modes by preventing damage to the leade and rifling.
And just throwing this out there:
Yugoslavia, who makes some of the finest AKs, do not chrome line most of their 7.62x39 rifles, but do chrome line their 5.56 rifles (all AKs/variants).
Chrome is great for protecting from corrosion, both corrosive ammo and environmental rust/moisture. It makes cleaning easier. But for most guns, it has negligible (less than a couple thousand rounds) affect on serviceable life. And if you're wanting maximum accuracy, you'll nitride over chrome anyways (chrome negatively affects barrels inherent accuracy).
(Yes, most Yugo 7.62x39 is copper jacketed and brass case, but is also corrosive... But one can assume they're making their 5.56 w/ the same premium NATO specs.) IMO, this speaks more to the cartridge difference in barrel wear (7.62x39 being much gentler) than anything else, but YMMV.
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
I think the tab is a waste of money the current vz's are not having any issues. I bought 8 from PSA and have zero issues on any of them with multiple shooters. As for the magazines most of them are perfect. Of my last 8 purchases 5 of them were band new un issued pouches with the magazine still plastic wrapped and grease covered.
What's been done differently on the current vz's that have addressed the problem that requires the tab job on previous iterations of the rifle?
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
1 magazine looks unissued, the other four have a bit of wear, but look fine!
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
I think the tab is a waste of money the current vz's are not having any issues. I bought 8 from PSA and have zero issues on any of them with multiple shooters. As for the magazines most of them are perfect. Of my last 8 purchases 5 of them were band new un issued pouches with the magazine still plastic wrapped and grease covered.
What's been done differently on the current vz's that have addressed the problem that requires the tab job on previous iterations of the rifle?
The disconnector has been modified. I had a "gremlin" problem with mine, but only shooting Wolf Military. Don't know if it was the ammo, magazine, rifle, or me, but I sent the carrier off just so I could eliminate any chance of the problem
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
I think the tab is a waste of money the current vz's are not having any issues. I bought 8 from PSA and have zero issues on any of them with multiple shooters. As for the magazines most of them are perfect. Of my last 8 purchases 5 of them were band new un issued pouches with the magazine still plastic wrapped and grease covered.
What's been done differently on the current vz's that have addressed the problem that requires the tab job on previous iterations of the rifle?
The disconnector has been modified. I had a "gremlin" problem with mine, but only shooting Wolf Military. Don't know if it was the ammo, magazine, rifle, or me, but I sent the carrier off just so I could eliminate any chance of the problem
I've got two coming from PSA. May I ask, and would you know, how I can tell by looking at the disconnectors if my rifles have the most recent modification?
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Put 100 rds through it today at the range. All mags fed great, no gremlin, and decent group considering the 30 mph crosswind I was dealing with..:)
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How are the magazines?
Mine should be here soon, all three carriers going to forced march for tab soon after.
I think the tab is a waste of money the current vz's are not having any issues. I bought 8 from PSA and have zero issues on any of them with multiple shooters. As for the magazines most of them are perfect. Of my last 8 purchases 5 of them were band new un issued pouches with the magazine still plastic wrapped and grease covered.
What's been done differently on the current vz's that have addressed the problem that requires the tab job on previous iterations of the rifle?
The disconnector has been modified. I had a "gremlin" problem with mine, but only shooting Wolf Military. Don't know if it was the ammo, magazine, rifle, or me, but I sent the carrier off just so I could eliminate any chance of the problem
I've got two coming from PSA. May I ask, and would you know, how I can tell by looking at the disconnectors if my rifles have the most recent modification?
There are many threads debating this, but the disconnector is more angled instead of round
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OK, thanks
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193 available...
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Thanks. FWIW, I appreciate the updates on inventory.
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Thanks. FWIW, I appreciate the updates on inventory.
No worries, been curious about what an average day/week of PSA VZ sales are.
Down to 182.
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Just got me another one. ;)
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Now 163 remaining.
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no Bayonet with these,
.................................. I must resist getting one more :-\
Still the best deal going!
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Mine arrived today, picked up from my FFL earlier but been too engrossed in election results to look at her.
Out here in WA state we have bad results on two gun related initiatives.
Anyway, will pull it out of the box shortly and report back.
I ordered a bunch of FAB items for it last night as I might put an M21 on this one.
(these darned VZs are kinda like Mosins, with such a low price point and endearing features, not many of us can resist more than one:)
Mine arrived sans bayonet of course, leather sling (my other two from AIM were fabric), and 5 magazines in very good shape. Tool kit was loose in box but complete and in very good shape too. No VZ2008 manual in the box.
The rifle has a little bit of surface rust inside the receiver in a couple spots, minor.
I'm not a nitpicker so given this is a $399.00 VZ2008 Century and not a $1000.00 CPoint Vz58 I expect some I'm not unhappy at all about the rust. Up here in western WA she's gonna get wet anyway, and require cleaning/drying/maintenance etc.
Yes, I might get a fourth...haha...the Mosins of the semi auto commie gun game....
My FAB stuff has already shipped too:)
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Nor should we. ;)
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I just jumped on the boat.
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142
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The rifle has a little bit of surface rust inside the receiver in a couple spots, minor.
One of my rifles had a little rust on top of the trigger and sear. It came off quickly with a brass brush and hasn't reappeared. Yours will probably clean up just as easily.
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My two are due to arrive at my FFL today....ROAD TRIP later!!!
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133 left in stock...they won't last forever!
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TJNewton, agreed, it will come off easily and will in no way hinder the M67 or GT from proceeding down the pipe at my will haha.
Centerfire sent me an email last night, saying they had VZ2008 in stock but with bayo/sheath for $599.99 free shipping. I think there were 12 or 20 in stock last night, just looked they are now outa stock.
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TJNewton, agreed, it will come off easily and will in no way hinder the M67 or GT from proceeding down the pipe at my will haha.
Centerfire sent me an email last night, saying they had VZ2008 in stock but with bayo/sheath for $599.99 free shipping. I think there were 12 or 20 in stock last night, just looked they are now outa stock.
Are the CFA guns $200 better than the PSA vz2008's? Surely the bayonet setup isn't worth 200 samolians!!!
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The rifle has a little bit of surface rust inside the receiver in a couple spots, minor.
One of my rifles had a little rust on top of the trigger and sear. It came off quickly with a brass brush and hasn't reappeared. Yours will probably clean up just as easily.
Mine came with a bit of surface rust stain in the same area, which was coming from a slightly rusty disconnector spring. It all came off but I'm ordering a replacement spring.
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Are the CFA guns $200 better than the PSA vz2008's? Surely the bayonet setup isn't worth 200 samolians!!!
Same guns. Bayonets are worth ~$25.
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I just picked up another 5 lol.... 93 left
I am guessing once these PSA ones are gone they are going to be dried up at the $400 price point for good.
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I just picked up another 5 lol.... 93 left
I am guessing once these PSA ones are gone they are going to be dried up at the $400 price point for good.
I'm afraid you might be right. Oh well, at least me and the wife managed to get one each at this price.
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I just picked up another 5 lol.... 93 left
I am guessing once these PSA ones are gone they are going to be dried up at the $400 price point for good.
I'm afraid you might be right. Oh well, at least me and wife managed to get one each at this price.
Thought I was compulsive with 3! Well you know a good deal too when you see one.
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Looks like these things will be showing up on Gunbroker at some point down the road, and me thinks they won't be $399. Great investment....if I had a couple of more safes I'd be buying them by the half dozen too
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Just picked mine up. I did NOT get a lemon this time, YAY me! 8) trigger resets every time I and the folder runs very smoothly as well. Looking forward to giving this one a trip to the range.
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Just picked up mine today too. Nice looking weapons, cycled and dry fired every time. The stock button is stiff like it would be on anew gun but both are good
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Less than 60 left. Me thinks this is last last batch of cheapies left
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39....
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If I didn't just order two Beretta 92S 9mm pistols for $299 each I would have used that cash to get another one of these beauties. If you've never held one, it's a unique firearm and much more comfortable (IMHO) than the AK47
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If I didn't just order two Beretta 92S 9mm pistols for $299 each I would have used that cash to get another one of these beauties. If you've never held one, it's a unique firearm and much more comfortable (IMHO) than the AK47
Funny. I picked up the Beretta 92's from Palmetto. They are selling them for 289.99. Where did you get yours from. You need to be careful a few of the other places selling the same ones they were all imported together and they are in better shape almost new but they are all DAO.
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Got mine from Classic Firearms....$299 each shipped. I didn't check for DAO because they are for investment only. I'm not planning to carry them. I guess I'll need to check that out huh? Thanks for the heads up!
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Got mine from Classic Firearms....$299 each shipped. I didn't check for DAO because they are for investment only. I'm not planning to carry them. I guess I'll need to check that out huh? Thanks for the heads up!
I think your good to go. Did you get yours yet. Mine will be here tomorrow. I'll post pics when I get them.
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Placed the order two days ago. They should hit my FFL middle of this coming week. I should have my vz2008's test fired by then and will submit a report to the members here :)
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Back up to 68 in stock.
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Back up to 68 in stock.
They're having babies! So cuuuuute!!!! ;D
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Well, mine was shipped before the babies started, so you can't blame him! ;D ;D
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Well, mine was shipped before the babies started, so you can't blame him! ;D ;D
Yeah but think what you could sell a Father and Son pair for!!! O0
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133 in stock as of now. ???
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233. I guess it was build week.
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Maybe it might be time to stop buying these and see if the price drops further :-\
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Maybe it might be time to stop buying these and see if the price drops further :-\
For the deal that it is, I think that may be asking too much. I rather think that Volume of sales might be keeping the price down to what it is.
Very tempting for me to pick up another one. ;)
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Maybe it might be time to stop buying these and see if the price drops further :-\
For the deal that it is, I think that may be asking too much. I rather think that Volume of sales might be keeping the price down to what it is.
Very tempting for me to pick up another one. ;)
You may be quite right. If they last a while I may pick up another couple myself....you simply can't loose with these rifles at $399
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At these prices, once accounting for mags & accessories value, you're paying the same price as parts kits currently run for a built gun...
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Must.. not.. spend.. renovation... money... on... another... VZ2008... aaggghh...
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The two I bought in mid October were free shipping. Now the shipping shows up as $17 per gun for me. It looks like the price is indeed creeping up folks so grab these now while you still can. I was so tempted then realized I have two kits that I paid $99 each for that I could build if I had a hankerin' for more of these great rifles
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The two I bought in mid October were free shipping. Now the shipping shows up as $17 per gun for me. It looks like the price is indeed creeping up folks so grab these now while you still can. I was so tempted then realized I have two kits that I paid $99 each for that I could build if I had a hankerin' for more of these great rifles
PSA will run the occasional free shipping promo. As it happened they ran one on either side of when I ordered mine in June and paid the 17 bucks. I agree, though that they aren't going to last forever.
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Free shipping again....I've got one more in my cart....so tempted to pull the trigger....less than 25 left (it wouldn't let me put 25 in my cart)
edit: I pulled the trigger...one less available :) First time I've bought three of the same weapons....but these are so much fun to carry and shoot. It shouldn't be too hard to turn over a couple somewhere down the road for a profit so overall, a great investment!!!
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11 left
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Out of stock
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My wallet is grateful ;)
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I am so sad/glad at the same time I was so close to getting one more............ :-\ now no problem ;D
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Same here although I'm guessing this is not the last we've seen of this deal but we'll see.
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I was on CAI's site trying to figure out how many VZ 2008's they had in stock. I got up to 2500 in my cart, then on my next attempt going up in quantity I got a message that someone else had filled their cart and if they didn't purchase them within one minute, then the rifles would be available again. More than one minute and now hours later, still no availability. Seems as though some vendor somewhere picked up 2500+ VZ's just today. I'd expect them to show up for sale soon.
It would be fascinating to hear the story of when and how many parts kits/demilled rifles CAI picked up in bulk. My guess is that they got them about ten years ago for about five bucks each. But that's just a guess.
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I was on CAI's site trying to figure out how many VZ 2008's they had in stock. I got up to 2500 in my cart, then on my next attempt going up in quantity I got a message that someone else had filled their cart and if they didn't purchase them within one minute, then the rifles would be available again. More than one minute and now hours later, still no availability. Seems as though some vendor somewhere picked up 2500+ VZ's just today. I'd expect them to show up for sale soon.
It would be fascinating to hear the story of when and how many parts kits/demilled rifles CAI picked up in bulk. My guess is that they got them about ten years ago for about five bucks each. But that's just a guess.
If that's the case, they won't be offering these for 400 bucks, that's for sure
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I was on CAI's site trying to figure out how many VZ 2008's they had in stock. I got up to 2500 in my cart, then on my next attempt going up in quantity I got a message that someone else had filled their cart and if they didn't purchase them within one minute, then the rifles would be available again. More than one minute and now hours later, still no availability. Seems as though some vendor somewhere picked up 2500+ VZ's just today. I'd expect them to show up for sale soon.
It would be fascinating to hear the story of when and how many parts kits/demilled rifles CAI picked up in bulk. My guess is that they got them about ten years ago for about five bucks each. But that's just a guess.
I actually wonder what kinda of price Palmetto or Aim got on these. I have my 01 and have a dealer account with Century and for me to purchase one it is Price: $479.87. There is no mention of bulk discount but I never actually called to see what they could do if I picked up 100 or so.
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Just got back from putting my first two hundred rounds through the 2008 I purchased a month ago. I'm a very happy camper.
Here's some initial thoughts.
Accuracy with iron sights is acceptable. The sights required a fair amount of adjustment to get on target (fortunately my neighbor at the range happened to have an AK sight tool), but after that I was getting three and four inch groups, off hand at 50 yards, which I think says more about the course sights than it does about the rifle. Still, I'm fine with that, as I'm planning to use this as a close range brush and deer gun, and that's plenty of accuracy for those purposes.
Second, function was perfect. Not a single malfunction with over 200 rounds Tula ammo.
Third, I'm not such a fan of the folding stock, as its been taking a toll on my cheek. I think this probably varies substantially from person to person, depending on what your cheekbones are like as I've seen a bunch of people commenting that it doesn't bother them at all. In fact, I'm about to start another post asking if anyone want to trade their beaverbarf buttstock for the folding stock on mine.
Fourth, the oft-mentioned problem of overheating fore-end guards wasn't an issue for me. First, it was about 50 degrees out, so that certainly helped. But also, I feel comfortable gripping the gun by the front edge of the magazine.
All in all, for four hundred dollars... uh, duh. Buy one.
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Surprise!!! Back in stock
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Just got back from putting my first two hundred rounds through the 2008 I purchased a month ago. I'm a very happy camper.
Here's some initial thoughts.
Accuracy with iron sights is acceptable. The sights required a fair amount of adjustment to get on target (fortunately my neighbor at the range happened to have an AK sight tool), but after that I was getting three and four inch groups, off hand at 50 yards, which I think says more about the course sights than it does about the rifle. Still, I'm fine with that, as I'm planning to use this as a close range brush and deer gun, and that's plenty of accuracy for those purposes.
Second, function was perfect. Not a single malfunction with over 200 rounds Tula ammo.
Third, I'm not such a fan of the folding stock, as its been taking a toll on my cheek. I think this probably varies substantially from person to person, depending on what your cheekbones are like as I've seen a bunch of people commenting that it doesn't bother them at all. In fact, I'm about to start another post asking if anyone want to trade their beaverbarf buttstock for the folding stock on mine.
Fourth, the oft-mentioned problem of overheating fore-end guards wasn't an issue for me. First, it was about 50 degrees out, so that certainly helped. But also, I feel comfortable gripping the gun by the front edge of the magazine.
All in all, for four hundred dollars... uh, duh. Buy one.
There are a few reports where the shooter doesn't like the beaver barf stock for the same cheek-bashing reasons. I've never shot a beaver barf stock, and a simple padding and paracord wrap cured my rifle. Look through the threads on how to pad the folding stock and see if they work.
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Just got back from putting my first two hundred rounds through the 2008 I purchased a month ago. I'm a very happy camper.
Here's some initial thoughts.
Accuracy with iron sights is acceptable. The sights required a fair amount of adjustment to get on target (fortunately my neighbor at the range happened to have an AK sight tool), but after that I was getting three and four inch groups, off hand at 50 yards, which I think says more about the course sights than it does about the rifle. Still, I'm fine with that, as I'm planning to use this as a close range brush and deer gun, and that's plenty of accuracy for those purposes.
Second, function was perfect. Not a single malfunction with over 200 rounds Tula ammo.
Third, I'm not such a fan of the folding stock, as its been taking a toll on my cheek. I think this probably varies substantially from person to person, depending on what your cheekbones are like as I've seen a bunch of people commenting that it doesn't bother them at all. In fact, I'm about to start another post asking if anyone want to trade their beaverbarf buttstock for the folding stock on mine.
Fourth, the oft-mentioned problem of overheating fore-end guards wasn't an issue for me. First, it was about 50 degrees out, so that certainly helped. But also, I feel comfortable gripping the gun by the front edge of the magazine.
All in all, for four hundred dollars... uh, duh. Buy one.
There are a few reports where the shooter doesn't like the beaver barf stock for the same cheek-bashing reasons. I've never shot a beaver barf stock, and a simple padding and paracord wrap cured my rifle. Look through the threads on how to pad the folding stock and see if they work.
thanks. i was also considering the paracord route
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there is a thread on padding the folding stock, when I remember I will post my stock on there, and in the mean time try not to buy one more................. ::)
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Surprise!!! Back in stock
Hmmm? Someones got a replicator going full steam! :)
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169 in stock
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169 in stock.
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Surprise!!! Back in stock
Hmmm? Someones got a replicator going full steam! :)
They are switching to another Skew again and reduced the count while they were figuring out what they had left.
This is what is coming next.
QUICK OVERVIEW
VZ2008
This SKU does not include a Bayonet or Magazine Pouch
Caliber: 7.62x39
Barrel: 16.25"
Includes 3 Magazines, Cleaning Kit, Sling
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QUICK OVERVIEW
VZ2008
This SKU does not include a Bayonet or Magazine Pouch
Caliber: 7.62x39
Barrel: 16.25"
Includes 3 Magazines, Cleaning Kit, Sling
The incredible shrinking deal....It still includes a gun, doesn't it?
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QUICK OVERVIEW
VZ2008
This SKU does not include a Bayonet or Magazine Pouch
Caliber: 7.62x39
Barrel: 16.25"
Includes 3 Magazines, Cleaning Kit, Sling
The incredible shrinking deal....It still includes a gun, doesn't it?
So far PSA's website still has the previous deal missing only the bayonet. A little more than 150 left. Better get 'em now... two mags are about $60 shipped from most places that still have them.
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QUICK OVERVIEW
VZ2008
This SKU does not include a Bayonet or Magazine Pouch
Caliber: 7.62x39
Barrel: 16.25"
Includes 3 Magazines, Cleaning Kit, Sling
The incredible shrinking deal....It still includes a gun, doesn't it?
I think so lol. I bet the price is going to remain the same.
By the way for anyone who has ordered multiples of these PSA deals can any of you comment on the trigger pulls. They all vary greatly. I have one that I just got in and I wish I had something to measure the trigger pull but its not much at all. About half all the others but I can't see any difference in the internals. I wonder if its safe lol.
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QUICK OVERVIEW
VZ2008
This SKU does not include a Bayonet or Magazine Pouch
Caliber: 7.62x39
Barrel: 16.25"
Includes 3 Magazines, Cleaning Kit, Sling
The incredible shrinking deal....It still includes a gun, doesn't it?
I think so lol. I bet the price is going to remain the same.
By the way for anyone who has ordered multiples of these PSA deals can any of you comment on the trigger pulls. They all vary greatly. I have one that I just got in and I wish I had something to measure the trigger pull but its not much at all. About half all the others but I can't see any difference in the internals. I wonder if its safe lol.
I think there's a tutorial somewhere on utube that shows how to modify the sear to lighten the triggerpull
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My three triggers vary by serial number. The newest serial has the best trigger. They all go bang when you pull them.
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I haven't measure the weight, but there's no noticeable difference between the triggers on my VZ 2008's. All moderately heavy, and all consistent and no problems. I personally don't like a light trigger.
The VZ 2008 trigger does, however, have a long reset. Rapid fire is somewhat slower than other rifles I have. Again, nothing egregious or problematic.
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This is my first VZ, but we had a blast with it this last weekend. No issues, shoots great, not much recoil and has become my 12 year old son's favorite rifle, over my $1700 AR. I was amazed at how nice it looked out of the box, like it was a new gun. Light, maneuverable, seems to be reasonably accurate. Trigger is pretty decent, long, not too heavy and very smooth. No regrets at all!
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Deals back
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/
Shoot Strait!
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Deals back
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/
Only 127 left ;)
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I ordered 4. My brother and cousin were sold when they shot mine last week.
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Deals back
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18324/s/vz2008-no-bayonet-5-magazines-mag-pouch-cleaning-kit-sling/
Only 127 left ;)
Until they sell out then they're be 'only' 169 left ;)
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I received my third rifle, perfect condition and perfect function and fire!!
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Looks like they're out of stock again.
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I picked up my 4 Saturday, all were nice and pretty. I disassembled each one and did a function check and good to go. One was missing the front ring for the sling and all the slings were crap leather that is incorrect for the VZ. Mags were mixed. some new and some very used. Pouches the same. Glad I got these before they went to the new 3 mag package. All had the angled trigger sear thingy.
I lubed one up and fired it yesterday,zeroed and bent one trigger spring. Works as expected.
Also saw guy there with a 2008 fixed stock, 1st customer I have seen at the range with an 08 besides me and a co worker.
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How do you know how many are left in stock? I contacted psa and they wouldn't divulge that info.
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Adjust the quantity in your cart until it no longer tells you "insufficient quantities" or something to that effect... ;)
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They still have these rifles in stock...the new "deal" is the rifle, cleaning kit, sling and 3 magazines are included. No magazine pouch, two less magazines for $379 + Shipping
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sad on the new deal, not that it is bad, just not as good as the first one.
I did mess up however and only bought one ??? not a smart move
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sad on the new deal, not that it is bad, just not as good as the first one.
I did mess up however and only bought one ??? not a smart move
It's wants vs. available funding....you're not alone so don't feel bad! ;)
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Outta stock now, looks like everyone spent their Christmas money lol.
Shoot Strait!
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So they're out of stock, and I STILL haven't gotten a shipping notice on the one I ordered on 12/04/14. This isn't sounding good.
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So they're out of stock, and I STILL haven't gotten a shipping notice on the one I ordered on 12/04/14. This isn't sounding good.
I bought three and it took maybe two weeks to get them.....dumb question on my part....did you call PA?
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I've called twice this past Tuesday. First call, I got cut off after holding a long time. The second call, I finally just got tired of holding. Customer service isn't exactly their strong point.
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Try their support thread on AR15.com. Guys have had better luck contacting them there.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_2/301_Palmetto_State_Armory.html
I ordered a second one a week ago, which shipped and will deliver Tuesday.
Also, previously when I wanted to make a change but couldn't get through they said it was better to email than call.
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Thanks m3scott. Just sent them an email.
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Thanks m3scott. Just sent them an email.
Good luck! PSA is not known for fast shipping or as customer service rock stars, but they're not known as cheats either. Like I said, got all three of mine and couldn't be happier
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I waited about two weeks before contacting them on the last one I ordered. I never did hear back from them, but the rifle was at my FFL two days later so I guess actions speak louder than words...
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Well, I ordered on 12/04, so it's been almost four weeks now. But with holidays thrown in there. I'm not in any big hurry. I just want to know that they have one reserved for me. Hearing they are sold out of them concerns me a bit.
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Did they verify your FFL information when you ordered? Or did you pick one from their list? When I ordered mine the info was wrong at first, so I had to re verify my FFL.
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I picked the FFL from their list.
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Does anyone know if they will be getting any more in??? I would love to buy another..
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Maybe, wouldn't count on it. I think fair value is $500-$600 on them. Currently can still pick up on gunbroker and prob other vendors for less than $500...
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Well, I ordered on 12/04, so it's been almost four weeks now. But with holidays thrown in there. I'm not in any big hurry. I just want to know that they have one reserved for me. Hearing they are sold out of them concerns me a bit.
I'd be concerned as well. Did they charge you for it? Did you check in on your PSA account to check the status or your junk mail for email from them? I ordered mine on 12/29 when they had 12 remaining and got the shipping label notice last night.
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Try the AR15.com thread I posted a link to. They seem to be replying to questions every couple of days.
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Yes I think they are fine rifles and well worth $500.. I really enjoy shooting both of mine.
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Yes I think they are fine rifles and well worth $500.. I really enjoy shooting both of mine.
I paid $500 for mine before PSA started selling them. I do not regret it at all.
My low 1XX serial number makes it a collectible ;)
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Well, I ordered on 12/04, so it's been almost four weeks now. But with holidays thrown in there. I'm not in any big hurry. I just want to know that they have one reserved for me. Hearing they are sold out of them concerns me a bit.
I bought one from them and they were super slow... I wish you luck and hope you get it soon.
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Finally have it in hand!! It actually delivered on 12/19. No notice from PSA of the shipment, and no call from my FFL. I guess everyone was too busy thinking about Xmas.
But I've got it now. I'll spend some time with it tomm. then hopefully get it out to the range on Friday. I don't even know where to begin! One thing I did notice is that it's muzzle heavy. It needs some weight added in the rear to balance things out. That's probably a good thing, if I end up adding a different butt stock.
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Finally have it in hand!! It actually delivered on 12/19. No notice from PSA of the shipment, and no call from my FFL. I guess everyone was too busy thinking about Xmas.
But I've got it now. I'll spend some time with it tomm. then hopefully get it out to the range on Friday. I don't even know where to begin! One thing I did notice is that it's muzzle heavy. It needs some weight added in the rear to balance things out. That's probably a good thing, if I end up adding a different butt stock.
Yes maybe a butt-stock... Would you go for the bakelite or all wood?
Cool!! I hope it works as well as mine!
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I would normally respond that I want synthetic as wood is too heavy. But this thing is muzzle heavy. And if I run a suppressor on it, it will be that much more so.
I need to do some more research on the various stocks out there. Do I want one that absorbs recoil? Or folds? Or has a cheek piece. Or all of the above? The wood won't do any of those. So I'll probably end up with either using the folder and adding some weight somehow to that. Or going with a Magpul stock and cheekpiece (cause it's what I'm used to and I like the look). Or one of the various other choices.
Anybody have good ideas for adding weight to the rear to counterbalance the weight forward?
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I would normally respond that I want synthetic as wood is too heavy. But this thing is muzzle heavy. And if I run a suppressor on it, it will be that much more so.
I need to do some more research on the various stocks out there. Do I want one that absorbs recoil? Or folds? Or has a cheek piece. Or all of the above? The wood won't do any of those. So I'll probably end up with either using the folder and adding some weight somehow to that. Or going with a Magpul stock and cheekpiece (cause it's what I'm used to and I like the look). Or one of the various other choices.
Anybody have good ideas for adding weight to the rear to counterbalance the weight forward?
Would some kind of wrap on the folding stock add any weight?? Some people wrap it in para-cord, but I'm sure that doesn't add much...
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One thing I did notice is that it's muzzle heavy. It needs some weight added in the rear to balance things out.
Take it out shooting and post your impressions. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's a well-balanced rifle.
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One thing I did notice is that it's muzzle heavy. It needs some weight added in the rear to balance things out.
Take it out shooting and post your impressions. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's a well-balanced rifle.
Yeah, maybe once you have a full 30 round magazine in it it should even out the weight..
Very smart.
Cheers
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Don't forget that Manitcore Arms will be providing some new options for us soon. You might want to wait a bit and see what Sven comes up with!
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Hey Manticore, any idea when we might see parts for sale? I'm willing to wait a bit. But not too long!!
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Well, I got my second one in today. It's a 3rd Gen but an earlier serial number than my first one - this starts with 003 rather than 009. It has the split trigger guard rather than the single that the other one has and the folder is a slightly different style also. I haven't shot it yet but it seems in good shape, although the finish is a little scratched here and there. It's dry as a bone so I doubt if it was test fired, the mags are a little rougher and the sling was an old, used leather one rather than the NOS canvas one the first time but still, I'm happy to have gotten another one before they sold out.
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Does anyone know if PSA will have them back in??? I think I'm ready to buy my 3rd.. God know I have enough magazines for it.
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I would buy one, but I think the ship may have sailed
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Similar experience to gwvt, my first one in Nov had a 12xxx serial, single trigger guard and open top front sight, small front sling ring. This one that came in last week from PSA has an 06xxx serial, the split trigger guard, a round front sight and a large front sling ring. The barf is a little beat up and is darker. The action isn't quite as smooth, but it hasn't been fired either. I also had to ream the rear dust cover pinhole a bit so I didn't have to use a punch each time. Overall it looks great though.
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1. They were on "clearance" at PSA...
2. Back in June of last year I emailed Century inquiring about the number of VZ2008s produced and was told and I quote:
Thank you for your interest. I can only advise that we have a few thousand left in existence to sell.
Kind regards,
NAME REDACTED
Marketing
Century International Arms, Inc.
3. JG Sales fixed stock listings (they don't list folding) says they're no longer made.
4. No one has them in stock per slickguns (might find a vendor somewhere that has them -- they're still $500 or so on Gunbroker): http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/vz2008?op= (Click on each listing and scroll down to see in stock status and price comparisons)
5. The VZ2008 is now being sold in Canada as a non-restricted rifle w/ chrome barrel (Canada gets a lot of corrosive ammo as they don't have the steel core and accordingly get cheaper surplus) for 2x the cost of the VZ2008 here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1001746-VZ58-CZ-858-non-restricted-Pre-order-westrifle-com
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Yeah, I think if you really want one, I'd get one for the best price I could find on Gunbroker or the like. They're still relatively cheap there. I'd guess it's only a matter of time before the prices start rising.
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You just described my recent acquisition to the tee. I will have to ream the dust cover pin hole as well.
Similar experience to gwvt, my first one in Nov had a 12xxx serial, single trigger guard and open top front sight, small front sling ring. This one that came in last week from PSA has an 06xxx serial, the split trigger guard, a round front sight and a large front sling ring. The barf is a little beat up and is darker. The action isn't quite as smooth, but it hasn't been fired either. I also had to ream the rear dust cover pinhole a bit so I didn't have to use a punch each time. Overall it looks great though.
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Actually read through that CGN thread a little further. It was unclear if any were able to make it through their customs/RMP review, so it's possible the Palmetto clearance was just what Century had been holding for the Canadian market and wanted to get rid of ASAP?
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Deal is back 379 3 mags sling cleaning kit. Less than 150 in stock as far as i can tell. I may order one if i cant get my hands on a cz83 this week
Shoot Strait!
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Deal is back 379 3 mags sling cleaning kit. Less than 150 in stock as far as i can tell. I may order one if i cant get my hands on a cz83 this week
Shoot Strait!
These things are reproducing faster than anchor babies.....I'm beginning to think I over bought with the 4 I have. The market will be saturated with these
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Deal is back 379 3 mags sling cleaning kit. Less than 150 in stock as far as i can tell. I may order one if i cant get my hands on a cz83 this week
Shoot Strait!
These things are reproducing faster than anchor babies.....I'm beginning to think I over bought with the 4 I have. The market will be saturated with these
If you have the funds to hold on to those until the supply runs out, you can easily make money on them. If you try to sell while the market is good, you may have a hard time.
Just hang on the supply has to run out eventually. This rifle contains many surplus parts and when those run out Century will discontinue making them.
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I agree, you made a good investment, just a LONG TERM investment
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Of course brasky, I can give you 300 for your "used" vz2008
Hehe
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I would think you can sell them for more than you paid on gunbroker right now... Lowest I've seen there is $450 and they sell...
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Newbie here. I pick up my VZ2008 from the LGS today. I will post back once it's in my hands and I give it a once over.
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Newbie here. I pick up my VZ2008 from the LGS today. I will post back once it's in my hands and I give it a once over.
Just got the call from my FFL, number 4 is in and ready for pickup
That's enough for me :)
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My plan is to tab weld and fix up all mine, upgrade the muzzle brakes, maybe the hand guards.
Probably keep one in the "stock" VZ.58V configuration and put the cone muzzle break and the czech bipod on that one for authenticity sake. Although the cone break was originally used with the NV set up.
I'm thinking I'll keep 2 or 3, and if and when I sell the the upgraded VZ58s at a gun show some time off in the future. Depending on the upgrades, the market forces at play, and how they all turn out I'm estimating a $650-$800 price tag. ;D
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Picked up 3 yesterday.
Initial once over review:
1 good mag with each, 2 well used surplus - a couple mags were total crap (paint off and covered in dirt)
Slings were strange NOS light colored leather - look more like belts, No canvas slings on any.
two of the cleaning kits were trashed (broken off thread connections on the rods)
The rear stock screw on one was already being stripped!, as if someone tried to take it off and slipped with a screw driver.
Finish coating is good, but all the parts and pins are pretty tight and stuck together.
Looks like the leaf spring on one rifle is angled to one side a bit - not straight (could have effect on shooting)
Beaver barf hand guards and grips appeared to be ok on all - although one grip was totally loose.
Need to put 5-10 round through each after a a more thorough inspection
Looks like the bottom of the barrel has been reached on accessories and QC is starting to wane a bit. ???
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I would think you can sell them for more than you paid on gunbroker right now... Lowest I've seen there is $450 and they sell...
If you paid $370 + ship and FFL, your already scratching at $440 + gunbroker fees/time/etc. I would sell these for under $550.
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Picked up 3 yesterday.
Looks like the bottom of the barrel has been reached on accessories and QC is starting to wane a bit. ???
I was going to say that. The three I already have sounds like the acc are in much better shape. The one I have yet to pick up makes no difference to me (as it relates to acc condition) as I have an old VZ58 kit that came with the acc....
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I would think you can sell them for more than you paid on gunbroker right now... Lowest I've seen there is $450 and they sell...
If you paid $370 + ship and FFL, your already scratching at $440 + gunbroker fees/time/etc. I would sell these for under $550.
I'm treating mine as long term investments. This is a $600 rig all day long in a year or two
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I got mine in this morning and it's going back to Century. Typical canted front sight of most Century builds. Oh well, hope they either fix it or the next one will be better. Useless as it is right now since I don't think it could even be zeroed.
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A canted front sight was my biggest fear, I dodged the bullet
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I got mine in this morning and it's going back to Century. Typical canted front sight of most Century builds. Oh well, hope they either fix it or the next one will be better. Useless as it is right now since I don't think it could even be zeroed.
I have three VZ 2008's and the second one has a canted sight, but it's very slight and I only noticed it when zeroing it in. It works fine with the front sight drifted over. The third one was blatantly canted to the most casual inspection. Compared to the cant on my second VZ, I knew that no drifting would zero that rifle. The accessories were also ugly, and the trigger reset problem was apparent 5 out of 10 times. While my other two VZ's were bone dry, this third one was oiled and dirty. It was probably a return put back into circulation. I refused the transfer and back it went. It took a few weeks, but a very nice replacement was sent.
That all said, if I now got a similar lemon as the third, I'd probably keep it as at this point there's probably not many left (unless they have babies again). From what I've read, the cant isn't that difficult to fix, and the tabbing would have probably resolved the trigger reset issue. As for the accessories, while not pretty, they most likely would have been functional.
That you sent it back to Century will probably work out well. I've gotten a couple of replacement parts from them successfully, although it took a little persistence. They'll probably fix that cant and it'll be a good rifle.
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Picked up 3 yesterday.
Initial once over review:
1 good mag with each, 2 well used surplus - a couple mags were total crap (paint off and covered in dirt)
Slings were strange NOS light colored leather - look more like belts, No canvas slings on any.
two of the cleaning kits were trashed (broken off thread connections on the rods)
The rear stock screw on one was already being stripped!, as if someone tried to take it off and slipped with a screw driver.
Finish coating is good, but all the parts and pins are pretty tight and stuck together.
Looks like the leaf spring on one rifle is angled to one side a bit - not straight (could have effect on shooting)
Beaver barf hand guards and grips appeared to be ok on all - although one grip was totally loose.
Need to put 5-10 round through each after a a more thorough inspection
Looks like the bottom of the barrel has been reached on accessories and QC is starting to wane a bit. ???
Pete, What serial # range is this one in? How close to your others?
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S/N 0126xx
Absolutely gorgeous but this is my first one.
Tight handguards, good barf contrast, mint metal finish, great clean looking bore, mags great shape, tight action
Only negative is a tight stock pivot and a moldy sling.
I'm way past happy.
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I got mine in this morning and it's going back to Century. Typical canted front sight of most Century builds. Oh well, hope they either fix it or the next one will be better. Useless as it is right now since I don't think it could even be zeroed.
Out of curiosity, what method are you using to contact / communicate with them? My last go around was horrible with little or no communication or feedback. Sent rifle into a black hole and it came back with some issues still intact.
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Pete, What serial # range is this one in? How close to your others?
014xx
065xx
068xx
068xx
102xx
100xx
101xx
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A canted front sight was my biggest fear, I dodged the bullet
I got one that was slightly canted, but not enough to worry about. the front sight post will end up being a 1/32-1/16 to the side. I've seen much worse on great shooting rifles.
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I would think you can sell them for more than you paid on gunbroker right now... Lowest I've seen there is $450 and they sell...
If you paid $370 + ship and FFL, your already scratching at $440 + gunbroker fees/time/etc. I would sell these for under $550.
I'm treating mine as long term investments. This is a $600 rig all day long in a year or two
Heck, they are a $550-$650 rifle right now. The only thing making these $400 is this endless enigma PSA sale. ;D The exact same rifle with 5 mags and a pouch is listed for as high as $1100 by other dealers (over twice as much).
If I had the requisite amount of hair on my balls, and wanted to put the final nail in my marriage, I would buy another 10 of them.
Stamped receiver WASR AKMs are $500+ (without a folder stock, and 20% with canted front sights) -- no comparison between the function or quality of the two. The only other rifle that is possibly as under-rated and under-priced is an unfired SKS, IMO.
It seems everyone knows about this sale though. I sold a crate of 54R yesterday and that good fellow definitely was aware of the sale. He bought one from PSA, shot it during a couple months, and sold it at a gun show for $500. Its like a gun rental and you get more when you return it :P
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I'm not selling mine..........ever! :) They're going to have to pry mine from my cold dead hands...............like Charleton Heston said!
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Price went from $379.99 to $399.99: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html
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Price went from $379.99 to $399.99: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html
That could be a sign that we're getting near the end
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Price went from $379.99 to $399.99: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html
That could be a sign that we're getting near the end
...and all the children are insane.
Waiting for the summer rain...
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Right? How can we be BOTH at the bottom of the barrell AND seeing the price go up?
I do think the my earlier 11xxx rifle is nicer than the 12xxxxx
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Price went from $379.99 to $399.99: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html
That could be a sign that we're getting near the end
I almost bought 2 the night they first showed $399.99 but when added to the cart were still $379.99. My problem is I want to inspect my VZ before I pay my money. I do have a local small dealer who still has 2 old stock VZ2008s available, but he is proud of them ($600). I bought a S/N VZ053XX from him in 2012, will go check the S/Ns and see if one has an early S/N.
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Just checked PSA. If you have $117,197.07 burning a hole in your pocket, you can put 293 of them in your shopping cart at the moment.
I ordered on the 11th (for $399) and there were ~ 350 then. So they continue to sell, even at the $400 mark. I had the dang thing in the cart at $379 and went looking for a local FFL that they already had on file and contacted him to set it up. By the time I got back, my cart was empty and when refilled the price had changed.
First post here; glad to have found this forum and all the good info.
A bit leary of CAIs reputation but seems most of you have had positive results with the VZ2008 build so I took the plunge. Will let you know how it looks when it shows up.
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Palmetto you can return it to them only before you accept the transfer. Alternatively, you could buy several and hope that one meets your desired specs and sell the rest... Definitely cheaper and easier than trying to exchange until you get one that's "correct" -- did a hand select w/ an AIM gun package that ultimately came w/ a canted front sight... What a hassle. Bought 3 from PSA w/ my next order due to lessons learned... All 3 were great and in configuration I wanted.
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Well, just could not resist. Ordered another from Palmetto. BTW, the $399.99 price includes ground shipping. So, the price increase was less than $20.00.
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Well, just could not resist. Ordered another from Palmetto. BTW, the $399.99 price includes ground shipping. So, the price increase was less than $20.00.
Free Shipping on all orders over $100 until Sunday. They raised the price on these so they wouldn't take the hit because of the site wide free shipping offer
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Hah! I missed the free shipping too. I got the price increase and paid shipping. Timing is everything and mine was OFF.
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What's the best way to deal with the arrival of the gun.
I see PSA will not take back the firearm AFTER the 4473 transfer. They also say all firearm sales are final.
Can you in fact not accept the transfer and send it back if it's porked?
If so, what checks do you do on the rifle before you sign on the line?
Any things to specifically look for when you take it out of the box?
All tips and info greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
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If so, what checks do you do on the rifle before you sign on the line?
Canted sights and shine a bore light to the barrel. Remove the muzzle device & see if the crown is ok. A teeny bit roughness is ok - stripped thread, corrosion obviously is not.
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What's the best way to deal with the arrival of the gun.
I see PSA will not take back the firearm AFTER the 4473 transfer. They also say all firearm sales are final.
Can you in fact not accept the transfer and send it back if it's porked?
If so, what checks do you do on the rifle before you sign on the line?
Any things to specifically look for when you take it out of the box?
All tips and info greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Yes, you can send it back if you don't accept transfer, but be persistent. I did just that, waiting on hold at the FFL for 15 minutes before getting a person on the line, only to be immediately told "Ya gotta deal with Century" and then when I told them I hadn't signed for the gun, they said "Oh, hold on" and then another wait but finally got the return rolling -- or so I thought. I left the rifle at the FFL but didn't hear anything back from PSA. It took another four phone calls over the next week to actually get the return/exchange processed. Each time, they started with "Ya gotta deal with Century" before I informed them that I didn't accept transfer, to which they repeated the "Oh, hold on" process. A few weeks later I finally got a very nice replacement rifle.
Look for canted sights -- the one I sent back was ridiculous -- as well as a head-to-toe inspection. You have to have some leeway as these are made from surplus parts kits and won't be 100% pretty. Use common sense. The accessories will probably be a mix of new and old. Check the mags for fitment. Make sure the trigger works, check bore, check the crown as mentioned above (it won't be pretty and finished under the muzzle brake -- just check for nicks/rust). One of mine had a little rust on the trigger that came off very easily.
Good luck!
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Picked up my 3rd today! Beautiful! Everything looks perfect! And PSA shipped very quickly this time. A little surprised the FFL I went to today charged me sales tax? PSA sold it and I think the transfer should only be considered a service not a sale.. But again I'm very pleased with the rifle!
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Picked up my 3rd today! Beautiful! Everything looks perfect! And PSA shipped very quickly this time. A little surprised the FFL I went to today charged me sales tax? PSA sold it and I think the transfer should only be considered a service not a sale.. But again I'm very pleased with the rifle!
Transfers are not taxable in most rates but some dealers still charge sales tax. Just a way to increase profits!
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I finally was able to give the rifle an inspection. The front sight may be slightly canted. It has the open top front sight and it looks like the right ear may be slightly taller than the left. I will have to wait for a little warmer weather before I can take it to the range to sight it in and confirm if it is indeed canted. Other things that were minuses:
- The moldy smelling AK style leather sling. I guess I will have to air it out for a few months or buy a replacement.
- The cleaning kit was missing the blank firing muzzle nut. But not too big of a deal, I never intend to shoot any blanks.
- The rear sight has some slight left to right movement, no more than a 1/32" total.
- Magazines were well worn. They need repainted, but seem to function fine. Any suggestions on what paint to use? Rustoleum?
Pluses:
- A very ingenious design, with a robust & solid feel.
- Very nice overall finish.
- Very handy. Reminds me of the M1 Carbine.
I am already planning out how I will make a heat shield for the lower hand guard.
I can't wait to hit the range with it!
If I can find the cash these may multiply like M4s!
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What's the easiest way to identify canted sights?
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Any tools needed to remove the muzzle brake?
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Two of my muzzle brakes where easily removed by hand, one is stuck pretty good and will require tools to remove.
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Just picked up my 4th (and hopefully last) VZ2008. Looks fine, one new magazine and two well used but functional ones. Complete cleaning kit and new leather sling. All in all another great buy
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What's the easiest way to identify canted sights?
A) put the stock to your shoulder
B) raise rifle to your eye (never stop to wonder why)
c) looking through the rear sight and down the barrel, located the front sight post
d) align the front post to the rear sight
e) then pull the trigger and hit your pie plate (repeat as necessary, changing mags and required)
f) then say: 1) "that looks and feels right and is dead on"; or 2) "that was off and the sight appears canted, you fracking Century bass turds -- you did it to me again!"
Bwah! ;)
But seriously:
If you ever saw 5 Romanian AKM WASRs on a table you would know what a canted sight looks like. Most canted sights are off just a bit and a sight tool can be used to move the front post (ever so sightly) to adjust for it. If your sight is really canted badly, just look down the sights holding the gun level and straight, and you can tell. The cost of fixing a badly canted sight if you don't have the means and wherewithal to do the work yourself is not worth it -- send it to Century for warranty work, or just drag it around behind your truck. Otherwise use a laser with the front sight post set in the center to see if they line up then:
http://youtu.be/EA1_lzILlnQ
http://youtu.be/lz-f5SBqjX0
"Daddy's rifle in my hand felt reassuring. He told me red means run son, numbers add up to nothing. When the first shot hit the dock I saw it coming... raised my rifle to my eye, never stopped to wonder why, then I saw black and my face splashed in the sky..." Powderfinger (Neil)
http://youtu.be/j7KrUM7-o70 (http://youtu.be/j7KrUM7-o70)
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What's the easiest way to identify canted sights?
A) put the stock to your shoulder
B) raise rifle to your eye (never stop to wonder why)
c) looking through the rear sight and down the barrel, located the front sight post
d) align the front post to the rear sight
e) then pull the trigger and hit your pie plate (repeat as necessary, changing mags and required)
f) then say: 1) "that looks and feels right and is dead on"; or 2) "that was off and the sight appears canted, you fracking Century bass turds -- you did it to me again!"
Bwah! ;)
But seriously:
If you ever saw 5 Romanian AKM WASRs on a table you would know what a canted sight looks like. Most canted sights are off just a bit and a sight tool can be used to move the front post (ever so sightly) to adjust for it. If your sight is really canted badly, just look down the sights holding the gun level and straight, and you can tell. The cost of fixing a badly canted sight if you don't have the means and wherewithal to do the work yourself is not worth it -- send it to Century for warranty work, or just drag it around behind your truck. Otherwise use a laser with the front sight post set in the center to see if they line up then:
http://youtu.be/EA1_lzILlnQ
http://youtu.be/lz-f5SBqjX0
"Daddy's rifle in my hand felt reassuring. He told me red means run son, numbers add up to nothing. When the first shot hit the dock I saw it coming... raised my rifle to my eye, never stopped to wonder why, then I saw black and my face splashed in the sky..." Powderfinger (Neil)
http://youtu.be/j7KrUM7-o70 (http://youtu.be/j7KrUM7-o70)
And here I'm thinking this was a scientific process. OK, that's fairly simple...even for me. Folks here were saying they saw their sights were canted simply by opening the box and they sent the gun back right back to PSA. Since that didn't sound right to me (unless the thing was twisted like a pretzel) I didn't think it was that simple. Bottom line...does the thing shoot straight? And for that you need to shoot the thing. Got it, and thanks for the great information man....and the patience to teach an old dog a new trick ;)
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And here I'm thinking this was a scientific process. OK, that's fairly simple...even for me. Folks here were saying they saw their sights were canted simply by opening the box and they sent the gun back right back to PSA. Since that didn't sound right to me (unless the thing was twisted like a pretzel) I didn't think it was that simple. Bottom line...does the thing shoot straight? And for that you need to shoot the thing. Got it, and thanks for the great information man....and the patience to teach an old dog a new trick ;)
Use a sighting barrel laser to see if it lines up with the front post centered. It doesn't bother me to have a front post a little off center, but I'm old fat and blind, so I typically use optics when I'm playing "junior SWAT wannabe".
God forbid we actually have to protect our neighborhoods in a post Bankster collapse apocalypse or (fill in your favorite prepper/survivalist theory here). My approach would be spray many rounds toward boogeymen from behind solid cover at a distance, so I stock up and have methods to lumber around with lots of ammo.
For you 5.56 caliber shooters out there: I have XM855 Green Tip rounds for HALF PRICE!:
Send your USPO check to:
ATF Moral Hazard #5002
P.O. Box XM855
Washington DC
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/CitizenPete/609600BA-D3B9-4293-809D-DB8E53213E30_zpsxuzgswwq.jpg)
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My second VZ2008 has very slightly canted sights. I didn't notice it until I was zeroing it and it kept shooting far to the right. I looked at it closely and was able to see the slightest cant. Drifting the sight compensated for it and it shoots fine.
The third one I got, the one that went back, was ridiculous. The front sight would have had to have been twice as wide to drift it to zero. It was blatantly obvious even from a 45* view.
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Got my 4th VZ yesterday. My brothers liked mine so much, I had to sell the #2 and 3, so I only actually have 2. Very happy. Functions flawlessly. Leaving it stock, although I am adding picatinny rails to the beaver barf fore end for heat purposes. Have backup fore end from the #1 VZ anyways if I want to sell as original. Think its going to be my new truck gun.
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They were down to 43 rifles as the maximum order the cart would accept about an hour ago.
Is this the end or is there another boxcar full hidden away somewhere?
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OK, I picked mine up. Ordered on the 11th and they arrived at FFL on the 20th but I couldn't set up a time until today.
First off, checked front sight/rear sight alignment. Looked dead on to me and the FFL.
Pulled flash hider, easy off, threads smooth and clean.
Crown smooth as a baby's butt.
Bore was clean and shiny rifling looked good.
Trigger didn't seem to have much play at all either side to side. Went click when I pulled the trigger.
No rust anywhere that I could see.
Two mags a little scratched up, one looked nice and shiny. I doubt that one is unissued, more like a refinish job. Sling was crap.
Didn't actually dump the accessory kit out to look at it.
Overall, very happy so far. The real test comes at the range.
Thanks to all that gave guidance here. I do appreciate it.
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OK, I picked mine up. Ordered on the 11th and they arrived at FFL on the 20th but I couldn't set up a time until today.
First off, checked front sight/rear sight alignment. Looked dead on to me and the FFL.
Pulled flash hider, easy off, threads smooth and clean.
Crown smooth as a baby's butt.
Bore was clean and shiny rifling looked good.
Trigger didn't seem to have much play at all either side to side. Went click when I pulled the trigger.
No rust anywhere that I could see.
Two mags a little scratched up, one looked nice and shiny. I doubt that one is unissued, more like a refinish job. Sling was crap.
Didn't actually dump the accessory kit out to look at it.
Overall, very happy so far. The real test comes at the range.
Thanks to all that gave guidance here. I do appreciate it.
Hizah! Another winner! Congratulations and welcome to the dark side, we have cookies (and VZ58s) O0
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Good to hear Toad. Mine was good to. Weather hasn't permitted to fire yet, but all the dryfire and optical tests are good. Keeping this one as stock as possible.
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?..and then there were none.
CENTURY VZ2008 7.62X39 W/3 MAGS, CLEANING KIT, & SLING
TEMPORARILY OUT OF STOCK
My new short list is a newer sling, two more magazines and either the Czech 4 mag pouch or a Chinese Type 81. I think that will do it for a while.
Although?.I've seen some pics here with the horizontal arm of the folding stock wrapped or padded with stuff. Any ideas on that? Or is it not a problem rising up into your cheek?
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I don't think the folder is comfortable at all
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A little cheap padding makes the folder very comfortable. Pipe insulation foam works great. Even as a buttpad.
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A little cheap padding makes the folder very comfortable. Pipe insulation foam works great. Even as a buttpad.
Experimented with the rubberized foam sticky pipe tape. First laid a few layers lengthwise on the top/left side for a little cushion build up. Then spiral wrapped the entire length over that with the sticky pipe tape. Finished off with the vet wrap (cheaper at CVS Pharmacy then Tractor Supply). A little white tape for camo over top. Surprizingly very comfortable and good iron site alignment too. Cheap and chearful solution. :D
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?..and then there were none.
CENTURY VZ2008 7.62X39 W/3 MAGS, CLEANING KIT, & SLING
TEMPORARILY OUT OF STOCK
[...]
...emphasis mine.
The endless enigma.
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I think shooting the folder sucks. I added a padded steel riser, It helped a little but not much. So I found some cold/uv proof window sealer strips made of some kind of dense foam. Wrapped the stock and steel riser with that, and then wrapped it up tight with the best grade electrical tape.
The results are wonderful to shoot.
(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah113/harrellfamily2010/67AD06FE-CD5E-4FD5-B432-B7FC2FBF1FFB_zps4bq0v3hd.jpg)
(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah113/harrellfamily2010/00A973E2-4CED-49FC-9EBD-60BEB478B675_zps4ewsxc1h.jpg)
(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah113/harrellfamily2010/A01497CE-9B2B-494B-8A9F-E7228FEF2D6F_zpslyyn1nhk.jpg)
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WIN WIN WIN PSA Endless Enigma Contest:
OK, place yer educated guess, VZers. Win a NOS sling from OOW. (still in plastic) and a crappy but serviceable surplus VZ.58 mag.
Will PSA come out with yet another batch of VZ2008s?
Post, whether you think YES they will, or NO they will not come out with yet another batch of VZ2008s?
If no then, well it's just NO. (NO sling for you)
If you think YES answer the following questions:
Another PSA Batch: Yes or No
How many VZ2008s? (might be hard to know exact # if some sell right away- but we'll do our best)
How many mags will come with each rifle?
What will the slings be made out of.
What other acessories will come with them (if any).
Any other predictions you want to add: (can help but not hurt your guess)
Rules: Whoever says YES and is closest to getting both the total number of VZs and the other answers correct, gets a free NOS (still wrapped in plastic) Czech VZ.58 canvas sling right from OOW stock plus (that's not all folks) a crappy beat up (but serviceable) 30 round magazine, that I recieved from PSA delivered with one of my rifles) at no cost. (NO MAG WILL BE SENT TO CA, NY, MD, NJ, MA, just the sling if you live in a restricted tryanny state.)
Hurry hurry, you have to answer BEFORE the next batch pops up in the PSA website to play.
If you either vote: NO, or my guess is closest then as Soup Sling Nazi would say says: NO SLING FOR YOU!
My guess:
Another PSA VZ2008 batch: YES
How many VZ2008s? 120
How many mags will come with each rifle? 2
What will the slings be made out of? Cheap leather or Dental Floss
What other acessories will come with them (if any)? A beat up cleaning kit.
Any other bonus predictions you want to add?: $300 beaverbarf quality will be acceptable but rough, still all VZ58V folder models
Winner will be chosen by myself, but if there is a tie first to post gets the sling and mag. If there is some sort of dispute beyond that the forum shall decide.
GOD, I must be bored.
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I must be bored also. :o
Another PSA VZ2008 batch: YES
How many VZ2008s? 300
How many mags will come with each rifle? 2
What will the slings be made out of? Used up AMD-65 leather
What other acessories will come with them (if any)? Cleaning kit and a janky slant brake
Any other bonus predictions you want to add?: Price will probably not be below $399.
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I predict gunsmith special, or grade B/blem type deal to sell all the returns.
No accessories
2 mags
299$$
400 rifles
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Another batch? Yes How many? 200. Mags 4. Slings, canvas. Accessories, bayo, sheath. Price $499
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Another batch..yes. #150. Two mags, cleaning kit, crappy leather sling with mold, price $425
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Folding stock padding....
I'm thinking about some foam pipe insulation wrapped with a piece of leather and laced underneath with some paracord.
Anybody seen something like that? Any pictures?
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Folding stock padding....
I'm thinking about some foam pipe insulation wrapped with a piece of leather and laced underneath with some paracord.
Anybody seen something like that? Any pictures?
Yes, someone had posted a stitched leather stock cover on the forum a while back, but I wouldn't know where to look for it
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Been cogitating on this. Saw some rubber foam pipe insulation, 1/2" I.D. that would probably fit over the metal pretty close. Then wrap it with black perforated baseball bat handle polymer. LizardSkins makes some decent stuff.
Maybe?
(http://www.cheapbats.com/uploads/commerce/images/large/Lizard-Skin-Bat-Grip-All-Colors-800.jpg)
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Thanks for the tip...it think i found it....
Leather wrapped stock => http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=65105.msg482268#msg482268
Maybe want to try this but with a wrapped tube though.
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Still time to enter the PSA VZ58 Endless Enigma Contest for a chance to win the sling and magazine. Contest rules a couple posts back.
No new announcement from PSA at the time of this post:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?q=vz58
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So far, I'm happy with my double paracorded folder, then I gave it a good wax to smooth it out some. I used up have a tube of archery string wax. lol There are probably better options but it isn't as abrasive now.
So here is my guess...
Another PSA Batch: Yes
How many VZ2008s? 325
How many mags will come with each rifle? 3
What will the slings be made out of. Leather
What other acessories will come with them (if any). Cleaning kit
Any other predictions you want to add: (can help but not hurt your guess)
Basically the same deal as the last offering, just reloaded. Same price, $399
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Another PSA Batch: Yes
How many VZ2008s? 350
How many mags will come with each rifle? 2
What will the slings be made out of. Leather (agreed)
What other accessories will come with them (if any). Cleaning kit (agreed)
Any other predictions you want to add:
- This batch will take longer to sell..everyone who was going to scoop up several of these already have
Basically the same deal as the last offering, just reloaded. Same price, $399 (yep!)
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Another PSA Batch: Yes
How many VZ2008s? 750
How many mags will come with each rifle? 3
What will the slings be made out of. Same rotten leather
What other acessories will come with them (if any). Cleaning kit
Any other predictions you want to add: (can help but not hurt your guess)
$399. I predict I will be complelled to buy another one.
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Yes
400
3 mags
Canvas sling
Cleaning kit
379
And yes one more won't hurt :)
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Got mine already already put on new furniture NEA handguard and flash supressor.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ce/0c/92/ce0c92c34095fac2dcb53dbc2f8a743e.jpg)
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"I predict I will be compelled to buy another one." Awesome. I think this prediction should win.
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How about 300 more. 3mags with 5.56 platform. $400. ;D. That might prompt me to buy 3 more...lol
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Would require new production bolts that almost certainly have CSA patents... So won't happen...
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Would require new production bolts that almost certainly have CSA patents... So won't happen...
So, from what your saying, do you believe that there are no more crates of de-milled kits available for Century to use? Even with the Bren rolling out to replace the SA Vzor 58?
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Would require new production bolts that almost certainly have CSA patents... So won't happen...
So, from what your saying, do you believe that there are no more crates of de-milled kits available for Century to use? Even with the Bren rolling out to replace the SA Vzor 58?
I think he meant the cost of creating a new bolt will be cost prohibitive so you won't see a 5.56 version being produced
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Would require new production bolts that almost certainly have CSA patents... So won't happen...
So, from what your saying, do you believe that there are no more crates of de-milled kits available for Century to use? Even with the Bren rolling out to replace the SA Vzor 58?
I think he meant the cost of creating a new bolt will be cost prohibitive so you won't see a 5.56 version being produced
Ah... 5.56 Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying.
I usually have captions enabled on Netflix too. ;)
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Yes, was speaking to 5.56. 5.56 VZ 58s didn't come about until CSA got the rights from CZUB who was pushing the Bren, and previously other rifles, in that caliber and didn't want the competition/a lower cost opt-out...
My understanding is that Century has had these kits for years, like 90s to at latest early 2000s and paid an extremely small amount of $ for them.
I don't anticipate kits becoming available at sub $50 or sub $20 (depending on who's speculating) that Century paid previously... But then I also don't know how many kits they have on hand either. So someone might build in the US, but due to Czechpoint/CSA's previous litigious nature, I don't think it'll be for/until another decade when their patents expire... But we'll see...
I'd personally be stoked to see a screw in rather than press fit barrel option/configuration/receiver. I think that alone would do wonders for bringing this weapon into the modern age...
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Looks like Palmetto State Armory has 100 back in stock!!
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Looks like Palmetto State Armory has 100 back in stock!!
??? Don't see them. Can you post a link?
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http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18765/s/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling/category/4419/
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http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/18765/s/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling/category/4419/
Aha! The Endless enigma!
qty 100
Cleaning kit and sling
399
who was closest on the quantity? (I'm eating chicken and eggplant right now)
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Wow! they are moving fast! 88 left!
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http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals-new/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html
(http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals-new/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html)
Back at $399
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Must resist....errrrghhhh....
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Must resist....errrrghhhh....
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/kimasabe/FINAL%20FRONTIER/TREK%20Legacy/RESISTANCEISFUTILE-BORGinvadeVegas3.jpg)
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47 ...
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Must resist....errrrghhhh....
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/kimasabe/FINAL%20FRONTIER/TREK%20Legacy/RESISTANCEISFUTILE-BORGinvadeVegas3.jpg)
+1.
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Must resist....errrrghhhh....
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/kimasabe/FINAL%20FRONTIER/TREK%20Legacy/RESISTANCEISFUTILE-BORGinvadeVegas3.jpg)
+1.
I just looked to my credit card bill for guidance...I can resist just fine!
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Who won?
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Who won?
I think did! But you can check. If I won then, Woohoo!
I get to keep a POS Chimpanzee Arms International surplus mag and a new sling (and shipping costs)
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lol Congrats!!
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They must have gotten more in. Now at 281 in stock
Should I get a second? :)
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They must have gotten more in. Now at 281 in stock
Should I get a second? :)
Awwww...jeez! I'm done at 4 but you guys that have been on the fence better hurry before they are truly gone
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endless enigma -- there will be more
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03/09/2015 at 4:39 pm central time PSA showing 208 on hand
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I ordered one, great experience with PSA, had to call to confirm FFL dealer next day, five minutes later they were shipping my rifle.
Unfortunately though it got delayed when UPS lost track of where the package was.
But I got it now and shot it yesterday, need to do some minor work to it though, since it jammed a lot using PPU SP rounds. I ordered FMJ rounds but they were not in yet.
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I ordered one, great experience with PSA, had to call to confirm FFL dealer next day, five minutes later they were shipping my rifle.
Unfortunately though it got delayed when UPS lost track of where the package was.
But I got it now and shot it yesterday, need to do some minor work to it though, since it jammed a lot using PPU SP rounds. I ordered FMJ rounds but they were not in yet.
Jammed using PPU SP? That's interesting. Check your head space? Should eat anything I believe.
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I ordered one, great experience with PSA, had to call to confirm FFL dealer next day, five minutes later they were shipping my rifle.
Unfortunately though it got delayed when UPS lost track of where the package was.
But I got it now and shot it yesterday, need to do some minor work to it though, since it jammed a lot using PPU SP rounds. I ordered FMJ rounds but they were not in yet.
Jammed using PPU SP? That's interesting. Check your head space? Sould eat anything I believe.
Yeah something's off. Mine shoots FMJ, HP, SP, no problem.
Could also be a mag issue. Have you tried other mags? One of mine has feed-lip issues and always causes rounds to hit below the chamber.
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$399 holy crap if i lived in the states i'd have three .... RIGHT NOW
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I just bought my first one from Palmetto....can't wait to get it!
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My first post here!
Just stumbled onto this forum when doing research on the recent VZ2008s from PSA.
NO CREDIT CARDS and money in the bank. I'm in for one !!! Whoot Whoot !!!
Hope to learn about accuracy and performance differences wi AKs. Probably all I'll do to this is mount a matching wood - board stock and side rail for optics. Hate most collapsing or side folding wire type stocks.
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I just received mine from PSA. Trigger gremlin showed up a few rounds into the second mag. Aint gonna mess wi sending it back to PSA although I probably ought to tell them about it. Fortunately my machinist buddy was there and well familiar with the mod needed. I let him take it home for tab extension.
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I got to shoot my VZ2008 today. What a great gun, I have three AK47's and I have to say this gun may be better for several reasons, anyway I placed another order for another one. :)
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I got to shoot my VZ2008 today. What a great gun, I have three AK47's and I have to say this gun may be better for several reasons, anyway I placed another order for another one. :)
Yes sir! Another convert. Welcome to the club. ;D
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I finally got to take my VZ2008 out for it's maiden voyage. I was using Red Army Standard ammo. I couldn't get on the 200 yard range and had to settle for the 50 yard. I set up at 25 yards to start. The First 3 shot group was 4" high centered on the target with them all touching. Without making any adjustments to the sights I tried a 6 o'clock hold and kept adjusting my sight picture until I was hitting the bullseye. Which ended up being putting the bullseye even with the top of the front sight ears.
I then tried the 50 yard line and was barely nipping the top of the target - 6-7" high! I adjusted the front sight for elevation (2 complete counter clockwise turns). I was now hitting black, but about 4" high. I did not want to adjust anymore until I can use the longer range. Trying again at 25 yards I was 2" high. This rifle was just simply amazing at these shorter distances with how well it shot! As long I did my part this rifle was up to the task at hand.
Any suggestions on where I can access some trajectory charts to see where I should be at using this sight in information?
The rifle functioned flawlessly, no issues at all. I do have to say that my support hand was very dirty from the gasses being vented out. The cleaning of the rifle showed the ammo to be very dirty overall. My only concern was the amount of patches I used down the bore and it still seemed to pull some green residue from I assume was the copper jacketed bullets. I wasn't confident that it was as clean as I normally get my rifles after a trip to the range or field.
Overall I was very impressed with the rifle and it proved to be more accurate at the shorter ranges right out of the box for all but 1 of my 3 ARs.
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I finally got to take my VZ2008 out for it's maiden voyage. I was using Red Army Standard ammo. I couldn't get on the 200 yard range and had to settle for the 50 yard. I set up at 25 yards to start. The First 3 shot group was 4" high centered on the target with them all touching. Without making any adjustments to the sights I tried a 6 o'clock hold and kept adjusting my sight picture until I was hitting the bullseye. Which ended up being putting the bullseye even with the top of the front sight ears.
I then tried the 50 yard line and was barely nipping the top of the target - 6-7" high! I adjusted the front sight for elevation (2 complete counter clockwise turns). I was now hitting black, but about 4" high. I did not want to adjust anymore until I can use the longer range. Trying again at 25 yards I was 2" high. This rifle was just simply amazing at these shorter distances with how well it shot! As long I did my part this rifle was up to the task at hand.
Any suggestions on where I can access some trajectory charts to see where I should be at using this sight in information?
The rifle functioned flawlessly, no issues at all. I do have to say that my support hand was very dirty from the gasses being vented out. The cleaning of the rifle showed the ammo to be very dirty overall. My only concern was the amount of patches I used down the bore and it still seemed to pull some green residue from I assume was the copper jacketed bullets. I wasn't confident that it was as clean as I normally get my rifles after a trip to the range or field.
Overall I was very impressed with the rifle and it proved to be more accurate at the shorter ranges right out of the box for all but 1 of my 3 ARs.
I zero in my 7.62x39 rifles by putting the rear sight on the universal notch in back and aiming center of mass (COM) at 25 yards. At that distance, COM will provide a quick and reliable hit.
Then for 100 yards, I set the sight to the 100 meter notch, but instead of COM, I use "6 o'clock hold" or "pumpkin on the post". This works well for two reasons: First, the front sights on these rifles are so fat that at 100 yards they obliterate anything smaller than a 10" plate. Lowering the sight and placing the target right on top enables the target to be seen -- it "emerges" from the sight. Secondly, the 7.62x39 trajectory has quite an arc to it; shooting to 100 yards by using a 25 yard zero, the point of impact will be too high. By going from a COM to 6 o'clock hold, not only is the target now visible, but the rifle and therefore the point of impact is lowered. I've found that it takes lowering the sight to the 100 meter notch to fully compensate for the bullet's arc as just going from a COM to a 6 o'clock hold is not quite enough.
Set up like this, I can consistently hit a target both at 25 and 100 yards. At 25 yards, COM is instinctive as that's they way I learned with handguns. At 100 yards, 6 o'clock hold is instinctive for no other reason than that's the only way I can actually see the target. At 50 yards, it's just an estimation in between which is also instinctive since that's when the front sight starts to obliterate the target and the sight is lowered just enough to see. The trajectory will follow.
I don't have the opportunity to shoot past 100 yards, but I suspect that moving the rear sight ladder to correspond to the target's distance and using 6 o'clock hold will work well.
Keep in mind this is not 1 MOA shooting, especially with iron sights. This will, however, enable you to consistently hit pie-plate sized targets, and definitely man-sized ones.
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Any suggestions on where I can access some trajectory charts to see where I should be at using this sight in information?
Just google for "7.62x39 ballistics" and you'll find a bunch of charts and info.
For my VZ, I generally use a 50m/100m zero and leave the rear sight at the U setting, using a sight tool to adjust the front til I'm on target. If I'm on target at 50, I'm on at 100 as well, with minimal rise in POI between the two. I use the "pumpkin-on-a-post" sight picture.
That's good enough for me. I handed my rifle to a friend who had never shot it and he nailed a 1lb can of tannerite at 50M with his 1st shot. Then he went and bought 5 VZs!
If I want to be on target further out, to 200m, I zero at 25m. Again, I just leave the rear sight all the way back. This will give a max rise in POI of about 4 inches at the top of the arc between 25m and 200m.
Like TJNewton, I'm not expecting MOA here, but the VZ easily hits what I'm shooting at.
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VZ58 military manual has proper sight in instructions. Somewhere on these boards is a link to the sight in target there w/ proper dimensions too...
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VZ58 military manual has proper sight in instructions. Somewhere on these boards is a link to the sight in target there w/ proper dimensions too...
Zeroing ( Sighting in ) the VZ.58 (Military Manual):
http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/vz-58-military-manual.pdf
Pages 38 - 42 Zeroing Sheet and instructions. But I beleive you need a 328 foot range (100 Meters) to use this procedure. :P
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I just bumped it and added the same manual link.
VZ.58 Zeroing Sheet
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=50980.0 (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=50980.0)
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Thanks for all the info! It will be a big help on the next range trip.
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VZ58 military manual has proper sight in instructions. Somewhere on these boards is a link to the sight in target there w/ proper dimensions too...
Manual?? Who reads those silly things?!? :P
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Sold Out!
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Sold Out!
Not possible, it's the endless enigma.
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Sold Out!
I dont think they are sold out but merely PSA has a habit to temporarily stop sales of some of their products while they conduct a *Free-Shipping* event which ends tonight..
I'm a member of Calgun's (California gun owners) and for some years now we sort off make it a side hobby to know how PSA works their sales and their tactics... ;)
If you wait till after next week chances are likely that the VZ2008 will re-appear for sale again... Let's see ;)
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Been cogitating on this. Saw some rubber foam pipe insulation, 1/2" I.D. that would probably fit over the metal pretty close. Then wrap it with black perforated baseball bat handle polymer. LizardSkins makes some decent stuff.
Maybe?
(http://www.cheapbats.com/uploads/commerce/images/large/Lizard-Skin-Bat-Grip-All-Colors-800.jpg)
I put the pipe insulation on mine and then wrapped it in paracord. Serves the purpose of improving cheek weld and providing slightly more recoil protection.
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Sold Out!
I dont think they are sold out but merely PSA has a habit to temporarily stop sales of some of their products while they conduct a *Free-Shipping* event which ends tonight..
I'm a member of Calgun's (California gun owners) and for some years now we sort off make it a side hobby to know how PSA works their sales and their tactics... ;)
If you wait till after next week chances are likely that the VZ2008 will re-appear for sale again... Let's see ;)
There you go, as expected after the Free shipping offer is over , the VZ2008 is now magically back in stock:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-vz2008-7-62x39-w-3-mags-cleaning-kit-sling.html)
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Wow, you were right! I wonder how many they have left. I had read somewhere that there were only a few thousand left. When I ordered my first one from them a few weeks back it was in the 14 thousand serial numbers. The last one I just got in last week was in the 11 thousand serial numbers. So if what I read was true they have to be about out. Anyone heard any different?
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... 9 remaining
the end of the endless enigma?...
(or just a temporary downturn in the inventory?)
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Palmetto now has 231 rifles available with 2 magazines & cleaning kit for $399.99!!
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Say it with me...
Endless Enigma
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These things won't stop breeding...like rabbits these rifles are
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These things won't stop breeding...like rabbits these rifles are
That could be a good thing! Law of Supply and demand can keep prices low and hopefully they will become more popular.
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Still the best deal in a sporting 7.62 x 39 even with the reduced accessories. Pretty soon it will be one mag and extra for the cleaning kit.
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These things won't stop breeding...like rabbits these rifles are
That could be a good thing! Law of Supply and demand can keep prices low and hopefully they will become more popular.
Exactly -- more VZ2008s means more VZ58 accessory and retail options and at lower prices in the US...
And despite them (IMO, foolishly) apparently cease and desist lawsuiting Century and not licensing their patented tab (by my math, they could have easily doubled their 5 year VZ58 releated revenue in just two years w/ a fairly priced tab license to Century), among other matters, Czechpoint having a monopoly on the CSA guns also means that these Century guns are rapidly expanding their potential, nay likely, future customer base... The point here is that there are a lot of new VZ2008 owners who will continue to buy VZ58 variants for the remainder of their lives... (Tired of the zero sum mentality in the firearms community, by both buyers/shooters and retailers... Will save that tangent for another time...)
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These things won't stop breeding...like rabbits these rifles are
That could be a good thing! Law of Supply and demand can keep prices low and hopefully they will become more popular.
Exactly -- more VZ2008s means more VZ58 accessory and retail options and at lower prices in the US...
And despite them (IMO, foolishly) apparently cease and desist lawsuiting Century and not licensing their patented tab (by my math, they could have easily doubled their 5 year VZ58 releated revenue in just two years w/ a fairly priced tab license to Century), among other matters, Czechpoint having a monopoly on the CSA guns also means that these Century guns are rapidly expanding their potential, nay likely, future customer base... The point here is that there are a lot of new VZ2008 owners who will continue to buy VZ58 variants for the remainder of their lives... (Tired of the zero sum mentality in the firearms community, by both buyers/shooters and retailers... Will save that tangent for another time...)
As in many markets... there is often a "loss leader" and a premium supplier. Not rare at all.
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Palmetto is down to 61 rifles left. How many more will come after these are gone??
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Can't find any more for sale on the site. Could this be the last of them?
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Possible...
Generally, PSA restocks after sales w/ free shipping -- only selling so many items w/ free shipping before cutting them off...
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The point here is that there are a lot of new VZ2008 owners who will continue to buy VZ58 variants for the remainder of their lives... (Tired of the zero sum mentality in the firearms community, by both buyers/shooters and retailers... Will save that tangent for another time...)
Agreed! And now is the time for that "tangent". Always look'n for a good tangent.
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Have not seen any VZ2008s from PSA in several months now. Maybe they are concentrating on their new AKs?
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There is a seller on gunbroker selling several straight from Century, just search "VZ 2008 Century Arms VZ2008 Rifle 7.62 x 39" on gunbroker. I assumed century only sold them to re-sellers like PSA, etc..
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Yeah I doubt if we'll see a PSA deal on these again. The gunbroker ones are still under $600 shipped including CC fee, which is still a decent deal, imo.
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So glad I got mine when I did.
Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
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I'm glad they ran out when they did, to remove the temptation. But now looks like I have to get over to gunbroker?.
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On the bright side - the gunbroker ones come in a fancy-shmancy Century branded box!
If I had to guess, I'd say they might be along the lines of the later PSA batch of earlier made 3rd gen rifles, just based on the split trigger guard and more worn looking mags.
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gw,
How many "gens" have there been and what are the differences?
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By that I meant that's how we've been referring to the last CAI batch that most of us have with serial numbers starting 'VZ08PM'. There's a thread around here about serial numbers with that convention... found it:
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=62802.0
First Gen start with VZ
Second Gen with VZ08
Third Gen with VZ08PM
I don't recall all the differences - Century went through a series of changes in terms of who made the receivers, barrels, etc...
(edit) More to the point - it seemed that the later batches that PSA was selling were of rifles that had earlier serial numbers than ones they were selling earlier. At least some of these had the split guard among other differences and also had worse-looking mags sent with them. All of these were 3rd Gen as far as I know.
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One potential difference: My GUESS is that the first gen batch still were getting the tabbed carrier in violation of the R&D patent from CSA , and then after the lawsuit filing against CAI for violation of the IP they stopped adding it.
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Looks like the party is over for the PSA deal.