The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: Siliconian on December 22, 2014, 10:05:12 AM
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I have an SP-01 and love it. Use it for HD and range.
Want to get another CZ for carry (hiking mostly), HD, and range.
Most of people may say P-01, but I don't like decocker.
I live in CA, do not have many options.
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P01 only because of the weight.
Take Care
Bob
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Have you looked at the 75 compact and the RAMI? Both on the cert list, both without decocker.
The RAMI is great for hiking and is great at the range with the full size mag.
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Good options in the previous replies...I would just say get your hands on those mentioned and see what feels good for you!!
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Ruber and Blackwatch, I did consider compact. But its weight is 32 oz, only 3 oz lighter than standard 75B. Rami's look is too different from classical CZ.
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Yep, if you're in CA looking for a 9mm CZ in between the 75 Compact and the RAMI, not a lot of choices...
The P-01 is a great gun!Decocker is very easy to get used to.
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If you can find one there is the P-02 as well... I am still hunting one down.
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I often carry a 75B or 75SA in the woods without any problem. I much prefer the look and feel of either of them to the P-01 family.
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I carried the PCR for awhile until I purchased a RAMI. It is a sweet little pistol.
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If you can find one there is the P-02 as well... I am still hunting one down.
If I could get a P-02, i would not have this post. P-02 is not available in USA in my understanding. Too sad, people have been waiting for several years and have not been heard by CZ.
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Yep, if you're in CA looking for a 9mm CZ in between the 75 Compact and the RAMI, not a lot of choices...
The P-01 is a great gun!Decocker is very easy to get used to.
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I have a Beretta M9A1 which has a decocker. I have been trying to get used to it for a while. But just couldn't get it. What I do now is never let it stay decocked AND safety on at the same time. But I don't like that.
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What is the weight difference between the 75B and the SP-01?
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If you can find one there is the P-02 as well... I am still hunting one down.
If I could get a P-02, i would not have this post. P-02 is not available in USA in my understanding. Too sad, people have been waiting for several years and have not been heard by CZ.
Siliconian, Unfortunately, for all us Californian's (even those planning to move to another the state in the near future)...Even if we find a P-02 for sale we will have a very difficult time, if even possible, getting it in CA because it is not on the DOJ's list.
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P02 is available in US, but very limited.
I would suggest getting used to the decocker.. I didn't like the idea at first but now I prefer it over a safety. Quicker and Safer in my opinion.
I would go compact for hiking (p01 or 75compact) because it reduces the amount of restricted movement and also is lighter. (I carried my sp01 for a 6 mile HUNT and regretted it about a mile in).
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What is the weight difference between the 75B and the SP-01?
7 oz
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P02 is available in US, but very limited.
I would suggest getting used to the decocker.. I didn't like the idea at first but now I prefer it over a safety. Quicker and Safer in my opinion.
I would go compact for hiking (p01 or 75compact) because it reduces the amount of restricted movement and also is lighter. (I carried my sp01 for a 6 mile HUNT and regretted it about a mile in).
How should I work with decocker? What I do is load, decock, safety off. When I need it, I don't need to turn off safety. But I need to carry the gun without safety on and the first shot will be a DA.
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That's exactly the point of a decocker!
CZ decockers don't have a manual safety at all (the berrettas do). It just lowers the hammer for you, without any risk.
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Blackwatch had the best advice, go shoot some of these. Forget about looks for an afternoon and go to the range with someone that can show you the manual of arms of the different guns, and burn some powder.
You might be surprised with what you find out.
Last time I was at the range, I let a couple people shoot a couple of my CZ's, a couple FN's, a Browning, a S&W, and a Ruger. Afterwards, both of them went out and placed orders for RAMI's.
You never really know what fits you until you shoot 'em.
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I have a Beretta M9A1 which has a decocker. I have been trying to get used to it for a while. But just couldn't get it. What I do now is never let it stay decocked AND safety on at the same time. But I don't like that.
I had a Beretta 96 and had the same issue until my long awaited P-06 arrived. Can't see having another Beretta. I do really like the decocker especially now that the CGW parts are installed, lighter DA and SA so half cocked is the go-to condition.
Oh, and to the OP, you will probably, very probably, most likely, very likely, even inevitably have both some day soon, so get which one is available easiest and start planning on the next one. I never believed that until I'd had my first one to the range a couple times and came here to find out more about CZ! (rimfirecentral.com if you're into rimfire CZs, or about to and don't know it yet).
Then, someday, send in the clones! (SAR K2 45 is an awful lot of nice gun for the money!) But I?m holding the line there, I think.
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Canik or Tristar in the CA list? If so they have compact alloy frames with safety. I sold my P01s and PCR as they where the only decockers I had. Bought the Canik and really like it. Even uses my 75 mags.
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Canik or Tristar in the CA list? If so they have compact alloy frames with safety. I sold my P01s and PCR as they where the only decockers I had. Bought the Canik and really like it. Even uses my 75 mags.
None of the Canik or Tristar guns are on the list.
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I have a Beretta M9A1 which has a decocker. I have been trying to get used to it for a while. But just couldn't get it. What I do now is never let it stay decocked AND safety on at the same time. But I don't like that.
I had a Beretta 96 and had the same issue until my long awaited P-06 arrived. Can't see having another Beretta. I do really like the decocker especially now that the CGW parts are installed, lighter DA and SA so half cocked is the go-to condition.
Oh, and to the OP, you will probably, very probably, most likely, very likely, even inevitably have both some day soon, so get which one is available easiest and start planning on the next one. I never believed that until I'd had my first one to the range a couple times and came here to find out more about CZ! (rimfirecentral.com if you're into rimfire CZs, or about to and don't know it yet).
Then, someday, send in the clones! (SAR K2 45 is an awful lot of nice gun for the money!) But I?m holding the line there, I think.
You are right. I probably will not end up with owning only 2 CZs.
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How should I work with decocker? What I do is load, decock, safety off. When I need it, I don't need to turn off safety. But I need to carry the gun without safety on and the first shot will be a DA.
CZ decocker pistols work the way Beretta G models (92G) work: there is no manual safety at all. You load, press the decocker and release it. The hammer drops, the decocer springs back up, and the pistol is ready to use with a DA first shot simply by pulling the trigger.
Beretta F models (92F, 92FS, M9) work differently: you load, press the safety/decocker down and the hammer drops. You can leave the decocker/safety in the down (safety on) position which means you need to flick it back up during the draw to fire (DA first shot) the pistol. Or you can flick it back up immediately after decocking, in which case the pistol fires DA on the first shot just by pully the trigger.
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How should I work with decocker? What I do is load, decock, safety off. When I need it, I don't need to turn off safety. But I need to carry the gun without safety on and the first shot will be a DA.
CZ decocker pistols work the way Beretta G models (92G) work: there is no manual safety at all. You load, press the decocker and release it. The hammer drops, the decocer springs back up, and the pistol is ready to use with a DA first shot simply by pulling the trigger.
Beretta F models (92F, 92FS, M9) work differently: you load, press the safety/decocker down and the hammer drops. You can leave the decocker/safety in the down (safety on) position which means you need to flick it back up during the draw to fire (DA first shot) the pistol. Or you can flick it back up immediately after decocking, in which case the pistol fires DA on the first shot just by pully the trigger.
Alpha Sierra, thanks a lot for the info regarding 92G/F difference. I didn't know that before.
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Glad I could help. I personally really dislike CZs without a decocker. I will not carry a pistol cocked and locked, and the decocking procedure for CZ safety models is one mistake away from a negligent discharge.
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Glad I could help. I personally really dislike CZs without a decocker. I will not carry a pistol cocked and locked, and the decocking procedure for CZ safety models is one mistake away from a negligent discharge.
Nearly impossible to get a ND when done properly and even when done incorrectly with firing pin blocks. IE, suppose you don't bother having a finger in the way of the hammer and pull the trigger but the hammer slips out of your fingers. Firing pin block will stop it from dropping all the way to firing position since you already let go of the trigger. Cocked and locked has been the norm for MANY years even prior to firing pin blocks. How many NDs have you personally heard about? Been shooting for nearly 50 years with a LOT of different people and have heard of zero.
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Larry, think whatever you like. I have witnessed one guy being sent home from a USPSA match for NDing while decocking an SP-01. I need no further proof.
As far as cocked and locked carry goes, I don't really care how long it has been done. I won't do it. End of story.
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Larry, think whatever you like. I have witnessed one guy being sent home from a USPSA match for NDing while decocking an SP-01. I need no further proof.
As far as cocked and locked carry goes, I don't really care how long it has been done. I won't do it. End of story.
You can add a dozen or so IPSC shooters on our AD list. Mostly while improperly lowering the hammer. I have neer seen an AD when the thumb roll method is used. Pinching the sides of the hammer is the only version I have witnessed and caused by an oily surface on the sides of the hammer. In the cases I have witnessed they have always been with CZ Shadows. Carrying cocked and locked is pretty much the norm when carrying a 1911. Doing so with a CZ DA/SA pistol really is no more dangerous. USPSA and IPSC both allow it in other divisions.
Larry the FPB won't prevent an AD while lowering the Hammer. To do so you must pull the trigger, an action that displaces the FPB. Please do not try proving your idea with a loaded gun. You will be in for a very noisy surprise.
Take Care
Bob
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Larry the FPB won't prevent an AD while lowering the Hammer. To do so you must pull the trigger, an action that displaces the FPB. Please do not try proving your idea with a loaded gun. You will be in for a very noisy surprise.
Bob
First, it is absolutely impossible to have an ND when done by thumb roll or by the finger in the way pinch method. Pinch is done between thumb and index finger with middle finger in the way of the hammer. Have seen 2 guys use opposite with index in the way but feels odd to me. Even when done wrong your hammer slipping would almost always happen after you have released the trigger and the FPB will stop the hammer at that point which means you have to mess up twice, once by the wrong method completely and one by holding the trigger pull.
Also need to consider decocking is typically only done by DA/SA guys. Cocked and locked don't ever need to decock.
These NDs you mention are ones you know of, not heard from a guy who said a guy saw......? I only do about 4000 pistol rounds a year currently as the eyes and body start going and still have not seen one let alone several including younger years with more rounds per year and as I said, many people. Shooting since about 1962 but obviously not in competition at all back then. Had I seen even a couple let alone a dozen at IPSC OR USPSA I would find another league!!
Makes as much sense as saying DA/SA is more dangerous because the first DA pull is harder and results in double taps because the SA is so light. And yes I have seen this several times. Has always been by someone not very used to DA/SA BTW.
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As far as cocked and locked carry goes, I don't really care how long it has been done. I won't do it. End of story.
And that's why they sell both. Guessing the safety guns far outsell decockers but part of that is the lack of decockers available due to less demand. No idea what it is now but used to be 20 to 1 ten years ago in CZ shop in MN.
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Larry I have witnessed two. Both at IPSC matches. Both with CZ Shadows. Both using the finger pinch method. In both cases the sides of the hammer were oily and in both cases the hammer fell, hit the firing pin and the gun went boom.
When you pull the trigger and release the hammer the FPB is disengaged. If it were not so the gun would never go off. The reason they sell guns without a FPB is you can get a slightly lighter trigger when you don't have a FPB to move out of the way.If you want to think otherwise, fill your boots.
Merry Christmas
Bob
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Merry Christmas, everyone!
Thank you all for sharing your experience and thoughts.
I went to the range yesterday and tried both 75B and P-01.
75B shot slightly better, but the difference was less than 3" vs 4" of 10 round group at 10 yards, which I don't really care that much for a carry gun.
75B's down swept beavertail left a bruise on my web. If I don't want an SAO gun, I am out of choice.
What amazed me was that P-01's recoil (which was the major concern before) was much less than I expected.
I checked how decocker worked and felt OK with it.
So my decision is to get P-01 for now.
If one day I can figure out how to convert SAO to DA/SA or I can live with SAO, I may buy an SAO.
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Congrats on deciding to get a P01 :D
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Don't think you can go wrong with your decision. I have both, and the P-01 is every bit as good a shooter as the 75B. Once I get into a zone at the range, I can be as accurate with the P-01 as any other gun I own. I love its balance and ergonomics. As you say, recoil is very easily managed due to the P-01's weight and balance. You're going to enjoy this pistol!
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Congrats! If I were looking for a modern 9, that would be it!
Get some trigger time in and it will slick up nice and your groups will tighten up nicely too.
:D
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Nearly impossible to get a ND when done properly and even when done incorrectly with firing pin blocks.
1. Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible. There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2. You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.
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Nearly impossible to get a ND when done properly and even when done incorrectly with firing pin blocks.
1. Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible. There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2. You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.
I have heard reports of decockers failing and ND's happening, although they are very rare. Nothing of a man-made mechanical nature is 100% guaranteed. Murphy's Law seems to apply to firearms particularly well.
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Chris, I agree, but also when using the decocker it doesn't lift the firing pin block so even if the decocker fails, the firing pin won't move because of the Firing Pin Block.
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Chris, I agree, but also when using the decocker it doesn't lift the firing pin block so even if the decocker fails, the firing pin won't move because of the Firing Pin Block.
I guess it depends on the design and quality of the gun. Apparently, not all are created equal.
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Larry I have witnessed two. Both at IPSC matches. Both with CZ Shadows. Both using the finger pinch method. In both cases the sides of the hammer were oily and in both cases the hammer fell, hit the firing pin and the gun went boom.
When you pull the trigger and release the hammer the FPB is disengaged. If it were not so the gun would never go off. The reason they sell guns without a FPB is you can get a slightly lighter trigger when you don't have a FPB to move out of the way.If you want to think otherwise, fill your boots.
Merry Christmas
Bob
So a dozen became 2...... .that I believe as have seen 3 with the DA/SA light pull double tap as mentioned. Still impossible for ND when your finger or thumb is under the hammer. Try the slipping fingers I mentioned. If you do a quick pull on the trigger rather than holding it down its likely the block is in place before the finger slip. Of course don't do it loaded..
Thus in 40+ years of shooting with literally thousand of shooter I have not seen one and assuming you shoot a lot you have seen 2. Kind of a low percentage total and no others coming forward with lots more.
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1. Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible. There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2. You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.
A decocker is mechanical and you think there is zero chance??
Read the posts again and give the example a try - quick trigger pull and then fingers slip which BTW no one condoned, just said that doing it wrong FPB could still save you. And there is an actual zero chance when done correctly which puts a thumb or finger in the way of the trigger Making it more likely to have a mechanical decocker failure than manually decocking correctly.
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Larry, like I said above, even if the decocker fails there still is the FPB.
I don't see what the point of this discussion Is. The reason they make a decocker and then also a manual safety version is so people can choose and aren't forced to do something they don't like. To each his own.
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You all ever shoot a BDM (Browning Dual Mode)? One of my nicest shooting, but most bizarre guns. In DA/SA mode, the single "combo lever" closed the slide, drops the hammer, and puts the gun on safe. Scares me ever time I do it... It's firing pin safety is not a block, but pulling the trigger actually lifts the firing pin up into position, dropping it out of the way when trigger is released...
We'd have a field day with it here...
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1. Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible. There is NO chance of an ND when lowering the hammer with a decocker.
2. You clearly do not understand how the firing pin block works.
A decocker is mechanical and you think there is zero chance??
Read the posts again and give the example a try - quick trigger pull and then fingers slip which BTW no one condoned, just said that doing it wrong FPB could still save you. And there is an actual zero chance when done correctly which puts a thumb or finger in the way of the trigger Making it more likely to have a mechanical decocker failure than manually decocking correctly.
Larry you remind of the sage one experience a thousand times does not make one thosand experiences. As Alpha Sierra has pointed out you clearly don't understand how the FPB works because if you did you would not be making the comments you insist on doing. The 2 dozen did not become 2 the dozen or more still exist, you challenged me on how many I have seen and the answer is two. Both at IPSC Club matches. The others come from well respected IDPA and IPSC officials for whom I have some faith in that they are not prone to exaggeration.
If you want to find out how the AD works, next time you are at the range, point your gun down range, cock your CZ, place your finger and thumb on the sides of the hammer so it freely slips from your fingers and pull the trigger. Just one caution get your thumb and finger out of the slide area or your next stop may be the hospital.
Some folks have to pee on an electric fence to see if you get a shock while others simply accept the fact it might. You seem to be the former.
Merry Christmas
Bob
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Exactly why I said to try it as I have.
Originally I asked for how many here have actually seen that type of ND and specifically said not just heard about and should not have changed it to just heard about. You said add a couple dozen which did become 2 that you saw.
You can add a dozen or so IPSC shooters on our AD list.
Still no others coming through with one's they have seen or even heard about.
Not sure how you think thousands of different shooters, Different rounds and different events = one experience done many times?
No one has ever claimed the slipped fingers would be stopped every time as it is stupid (IMO) to even decock with that unreliable method. The point is as stated, if you do a quick pull on the trigger and release and then your fingers slip the FPB can still save your azz if you are lucky. Pretty much works like a decocker. Since you already released the trigger it will stop at half cocked.
The original point I was disputing is when it was said its more dangerous to manually decock which if decocked correctly is not possible as the NDs would be zero as something (thumb or finger) is in the way 100% of the time vs the supposed 100% reliability of a mechanical device used to decock.
and the decocking procedure for CZ safety models is one mistake away from a negligent discharge.
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Just placed an order. Now it's the waiting game. Don't know how long it's going to take.
Merry Christmas everyone.
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Larry I have never seen or heard of an AD when the thumb roll method is used. We are in absolute agreement and the method is virtually idiot proof. I say virtually because anything is possible when the idiot called Murphy appears on the scene.
While there is provision for CCW in Canada it is seldom approved by the Chief Firearms Officers of each Province. In BC where I live Open Carry can be approved for "Wilderness Carry". The CZ line of pistols is for the most part unsuitable for this purpose up here so the only time I do carry my CZ's is for playing the games or practicing at the range. I say all of this because if I am practicing I carry the gun cocked and locked. I do, do drills with the hammer down and cocked and locked. Both for me are perfectly safe methods of carry.
Merry Christmas to you and yours and all the best in the New Year.
Bob
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Just placed an order. Now it's the waiting game. Don't know how long it's going to take.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Sweet! Do you know the distributor? Can they at least allocate one to get the 10 day started?
Merry Christmas!
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On the 75B: The only thing I would like is to have a more positive (i.e. - harder) safety. Actually the Canik safety, while not as refined, gives a more positive control of the safety.
On the P01: CZ could spend a tad more time refining the DA pull. My PreB needed NO change in springs for the DA pull to be phenomenal. My transitional only needed polishing and a 17 LB spring. I normally find P01s to be plenty gritty, which adds to the perceived pull weight, and makes DA/SA harder. On OMEGA would be best on this gun - it normally feels better OTB, and the decocker is more ergonomic. Once again, CZ-USA: Please give us the P02.
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If nothing else has been a good discussion and the OP got a CZ!!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
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Just placed an order. Now it's the waiting game. Don't know how long it's going to take.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Sweet! Do you know the distributor? Can they at least allocate one to get the 10 day started?
Merry Christmas!
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Hi Ruber, I am not sure if I understand your question. I ordered from kygunco and will pay by check. That means it's going to take 2 to 3 weeks for them to ship the gun. California has 10 days waiting time. So overall it may take me a month to get the gun.
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The ffl can start the 10 day wait as soon as they have an allocated serial number. Some distributors are more accommodating than others though. Typically, I tend to stick to distributors that play nice, especially if I need to pay up front for an order.
Never used them, but I've heard good things about kygun, should work out well. But check with your ffl if they can get you started early on the ten day wait.
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KyGunCo is going to cancel my order because the gun has 14 round mag (the one with 10 round mag is out of stock).
CZ guns with different mag have different model numbers. All the CZ models with high capacity (>10 round) mag are not on the CA gun roster.
bleep!
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Sorry to hear that.
There are several locally here in San Diego for $5-550. Some at chain stores. So should be able to get a CA gun up there pretty easily.
Good hunting!
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KyGunCo is going to cancel my order because the gun has 14 round mag (the one with 10 round mag is out of stock).
CZ guns with different mag have different model numbers. All the CZ models with high capacity (>10 round) mag are not on the CA gun roster.
bleep!
Get ahold of Stuart(member here) at CZCustoms and he should be able to get you the pistol you want and swap out the mags if needed.
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Sorry to hear that.
There are several locally here in San Diego for $5-550. Some at chain stores. So should be able to get a CA gun up there pretty easily.
Good hunting!
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I am in Bay area. Don't worry, there are tons of online stores I can buy from.
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KyGunCo is going to cancel my order because the gun has 14 round mag (the one with 10 round mag is out of stock).
CZ guns with different mag have different model numbers. All the CZ models with high capacity (>10 round) mag are not on the CA gun roster.
bleep!
Get ahold of Stuart(member here) at CZCustoms and he should be able to get you the pistol you want and swap out the mags if needed.
I heard that their shipping is very expensive. Don't worry, there are tons of online stores I can buy from.
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KyGunCo is going to cancel my order because the gun has 14 round mag (the one with 10 round mag is out of stock).
CZ guns with different mag have different model numbers. All the CZ models with high capacity (>10 round) mag are not on the CA gun roster.
bleep!
Get ahold of Stuart(member here) at CZCustoms and he should be able to get you the pistol you want and swap out the mags if needed.
I heard that their shipping is very expensive. Don't worry, there are tons of online stores I can buy from.
Never know until you ask. I think awhile back they were doing free shipping on some of their stuff. Might be worth checking into.
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KyGunCo is going to cancel my order because the gun has 14 round mag (the one with 10 round mag is out of stock).
CZ guns with different mag have different model numbers. All the CZ models with high capacity (>10 round) mag are not on the CA gun roster.
bleep!
Get ahold of Stuart(member here) at CZCustoms and he should be able to get you the pistol you want and swap out the mags if needed.
I heard that their shipping is very expensive. Don't worry, there are tons of online stores I can buy from.
Looks like a good opportunity to pick up a defensive carry or Pro package P-01 from CGW. They have 10 rounders they will swap out at no charge (why would there be) and only $30 for Fedex shipping.
If you have a little extra $$ left over or received at x-mas... Be one of the first to buy David's new Copperhead P-01!
Cheers!