The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ Scorpion EVO => Topic started by: snipes7.62 on July 11, 2015, 02:30:01 AM
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Let me start by saying I do not work for Geissele or am I in any way affiliated with them.What I'm trying to find out is how much interest there is & may be we could get them to put something in production. I'm thinking an SSA style trigger 4.5-5 lb pull complete drop in pack. Pricing would more than likely be similar to the Tavor pack $300-$350 range.
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I have already contacted them but haven't heard back from my point of contact over there yet.
Sven
Manticore Arms
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I contacted them last week, they said no interest at this time,{ and they have nothing made at all for the Scorpion}.maybe more interest will do it but I would think it would have to be at least 100 units or more.good luck in whatever you find out. I already tried. when they contacted me on another issue.
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I say d e f i n i t e l y!! 8)
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I asked them a few weeks ago. They aren't interested.
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First thank you to all who voted & commented so far. Just a quick update a link to this poll was forwarded to Geissele Automatics.I know several people contacted them already & they said they had no interest. I'm hoping that if they see there are people willing to purchase a trigger pack.They may at least consider producing one. I'm trying to stay optimistic.
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There are not enough users on this forum for them to change their mind I am afraid.
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I find the trigger to be suitable for the task the Scorpion is presented with. This is not 500+ yard target gun. The trigger pull does not inhibit reasonable accuracy at 25-50yd, so I personally have little interested in a trigger that would cost 50% of the guns value.
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I find the trigger to be suitable for the task the Scorpion is presented with. This is not 500+ yard target gun. The trigger pull does not inhibit reasonable accuracy at 25-50yd, so I personally have little interested in a trigger that would cost 50% of the guns value.
This ^ ^ ^
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Absolutely agree with Dirty J.....
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Id rather see someone make a new grip... steeper angle... most suitable for a CQB weapon...
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Something like a Magpul K grip would be awesome.
Not only a better grip but just a smaller bleep profile period. The EVO pistol grip is huge.
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Agree again with bot GA Jack and Dirty J....
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I'm sure the Scorpion will be taking off like wildfire. There is a large post about it on the fnforum. Geissele makes a great product. I think the demand will be more than what they think it will be. I don't blame them for waiting until the demand equals profit.
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I don't think the Scorpion will be as popular as you think.
I watched one sit on the B/S/T pages of a local GA forum at $700 with 4 mags (2- 30's), the CZC muzzle brake and safet delete.
He took it down for lack of interest after sitting for 2 weeks.
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Its popular among those who planned to SBR it from the start.
But a majority of gun owners have nothing to do with NFA stuff and this thing has basically zero point as a pistol.
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Id rather see someone make a new grip... steeper angle... most suitable for a CQB weapon...
Just a matter of enough "critical mass" of owners to justify the cost of a mold for a new grip.
COnvince your buddies to buy Scorpion EVO's and it will make a grip happen sooner! ;)
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Its popular among those who planned to SBR it from the start.
But a majority of gun owners have nothing to do with NFA stuff and this thing has basically zero point as a pistol.
nailed it right there. most people dont want to mess with hassle of ATF paperwork and $200 stamps. I would not have considered purchasing the scorpion for a second, irregardless of how nice it is, without the ability to SBR it.
when I have shown my EVO to people, they think its cool, but I get the "eh, but what are you going to do with it?" response as a pistol. as an sbr, they say "bleep thats sweet!" but still balk at the ATF / stamp / $200 / several months wait thing.
the only people who see a value to the scorpion are the NFA crazies (like me) or someone who will be content with a sig brace or a cheek weld device.
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I'm taking an educated guess, but I am assuming that the United States is the only market in the world where this is sold as a pistol. I would assume countries that want a "pistol" sub-machine gun are probably buying the MP5k.
Dirty J said it best. While I would buy an after market trigger, the stock one is fine. Its a combat trigger. It is meant to obtain center mass or man sized target hits, not 1 MOA precision shooting.
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I'm taking an educated guess, but I am assuming that the United States is the only market in the world where this is sold as a pistol. I would assume countries that want a "pistol" sub-machine gun are probably buying the MP5k.
Dirty J said it best. While I would buy an after market trigger, the stock one is fine. Its a combat trigger. It is meant to obtain center mass or man sized target hits, not 1 MOA precision shooting.
C'mon now... can't have thinking like that. Why would a manufacturer NOT consider the USA to be the only/most important user of their product! :P
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You want to have them sell out and go up in price. just tell your buds no more coming in the country. but hey I am glad they are importing them in. and SBR is great. you then have a semi folder sub gun. and who cares what others may think..we are all independent and free buyers here.if Joe Blow buys a Glock I buy a Scorpion.if he brings a knife you bring a gun.
its that Rebel thing....do what you like and want... not what the crowd wants.. I could give a rats fat arse if at the next Sar show I have one on display and some dislike it.
that's the fun of FREEDOM...
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I don't think the Scorpion will be as popular as you think.
I watched one sit on the B/S/T pages of a local GA forum at $700 with 4 mags (2- 30's), the CZC muzzle brake and safet delete.
He took it down for lack of interest after sitting for 2 weeks.
My LGS in smallish town South Dakota has sold 12 of them since release, whenever he gets one init doesn't last more than a day before getting scooped up. Maybe people in GA just dont want them?
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I don't think the Scorpion will be as popular as you think.
I watched one sit on the B/S/T pages of a local GA forum at $700 with 4 mags (2- 30's), the CZC muzzle brake and safet delete.
He took it down for lack of interest after sitting for 2 weeks.
My LGS in smallish town South Dakota has sold 12 of them since release, whenever he gets one init doesn't last more than a day before getting scooped up. Maybe people in GA just dont want them?
Maybe... I'm no market expert.
But a dozen e-com dealers have them in stock and for up to $100 below msrp. The momentum is slowing. 4 weeks ago... None of these guys had them in stock and all were priced at $850 or higher
http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/806703913506
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Wow the bubble burst in less then four week's..goin to get another.....for some reason 2016 might be the end of them for import.{If that happens.} they won't be 800 bucks anymore. hopefully they will continue, its a nice handy great looking firearm. I actually like it more then the UMP-45 and MP-5 and the Uzi series,
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I don't think the Scorpion will be as popular as you think.
I watched one sit on the B/S/T pages of a local GA forum at $700 with 4 mags (2- 30's), the CZC muzzle brake and safet delete.
He took it down for lack of interest after sitting for 2 weeks.
My LGS in smallish town South Dakota has sold 12 of them since release, whenever he gets one init doesn't last more than a day before getting scooped up. Maybe people in GA just dont want them?
Maybe... I'm no market expert.
But a dozen e-com dealers have them in stock and for up to $100 below msrp. The momentum is slowing. 4 weeks ago... None of these guys had them in stock and all were priced at $850 or higher
http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/806703913506
or CZ finally made good on the imported numbers they promised.
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I have been looking at the parts that count for 922r, and I am starting to think Manticore may investigate doing a trigger pack- that would get 4 parts, and a muzzle device plus a stock would make 6 and reach the magic number.
Going to see if we might be able to lighten up the pull a bit and get 4 U.S. made parts to boot! It is new territory for us, but seems like it might be a worthwhile goal if no one else wants to tackle it.
Sven
Manticore Arms
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I have been looking at the parts that count for 922r, and I am starting to think Manticore may investigate doing a trigger pack- that would get 4 parts, and a muzzle device plus a stock would make 6 and reach the magic number.
Going to see if we might be able to lighten up the pull a bit and get 4 U.S. made parts to boot! It is new territory for us, but seems like it might be a worthwhile goal if no one else wants to tackle it.
Sven
Manticore Arms
Sounds good to me.
If you can strike while the iron is hot and beat CZ to the punch... and provide an easier way to get the parts (i.e. a pre-order program), it could be quite successful.
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lol hearing people talk about trigger packs for this gun crack me up.
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lol hearing people talk about trigger packs for this gun crack me up.
My interest is not to improve the trigger... but simply to have 922 compliance.
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That makes sense. Cool cool
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lol hearing people talk about trigger packs for this gun crack me up.
Why does it crack you up?
If we can make a pack that gets you 4 compliance parts and a better/lighter trigger than the 8-10 lb pull, what is not to like?
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I'm all for anyone who makes a drop in trigger pack just to make it easy.
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Id rather see someone make a new grip... steeper angle... most suitable for a CQB weapon...
This is what I'm ready for. While I agree that the trigger can get the intended job done, I would only be interested in a trigger if the cost was around the $100-150 range.
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i voted yes for a drop in pack. but honestly for what it is. really the only pack i would be interested in is a full auto trigger pack lol. one for 922r stuff would be cool though. as long as its not over the top expensive.
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I find the trigger to be suitable for the task the Scorpion is presented with. This is not 500+ yard target gun. The trigger pull does not inhibit reasonable accuracy at 25-50yd, so I personally have little interested in a trigger that would cost 50% of the guns value.
I disagree. Besides, why not get a better trigger? There's no downside.
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With the HBI springs and the Shooters Element Flat Trigger I'm at about 4.5 to 4.75 lbs for under $60. Personally I have a hard time justifying a $300 trigger that would do the same. This isn't a match gun, it isn't even a 300 yard gun, it's a sub gun that's effective out to 150 yards on man size targets pretty darn reliably. I've looked and drafted up versions of a trigger pack, replacement parts and various components, but it's costly and the issue is the tolerance that is in the CZ makes it more than just challenging.
You want a better trigger, buy the HBI springs and a new trigger from me...problem solved and you have money left to buy ammo ;)
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As much as I love Geissele triggers I agree with SE. The springs and trigger for the price does just fine. If the Scorpion actually served a specific purpose like my 3G competition rifle does then I could see spending extra on a trigger.
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I have been looking at the parts that count for 922r, and I am starting to think Manticore may investigate doing a trigger pack- that would get 4 parts, and a muzzle device plus a stock would make 6 and reach the magic number.
Going to see if we might be able to lighten up the pull a bit and get 4 U.S. made parts to boot! It is new territory for us, but seems like it might be a worthwhile goal if no one else wants to tackle it.
Sven
Manticore Arms
I can't SBR where I live, but that is exactly what I'd be looking for as soon as I move. I'd want to be 922 compliant without fussing with the mags - for piece of mind, I don't want to worry about grabbing the wrong mags by accident. The CZC barrel goes a long way, but that's a pretty pricey add-on.
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I already talked to Joe Plunkett at Geiselle about this project. Due to their manufacturing methods the economics do not support Geiselle investing in the trigger design at this time.
Sven
Manticore Arms
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ROFLFH!
$300-$350 for a 4.5-5# trigger pack!
Like Shooters Element said, same thing can be accomplished with the HBI $8.95 trigger spring kit and an aftermarket trigger or fluff and buff.
I know this is a little dated, but this is a pretty good read. Predictions that the scorpion won't be popular and cz would lose interest in exporting this firearm to the USA.
Let me start by saying I do not work for Geissele or am I in any way affiliated with them.What I'm trying to find out is how much interest there is & may be we could get them to put something in production. I'm thinking an SSA style trigger 4.5-5 lb pull complete drop in pack. Pricing would more than likely be similar to the Tavor pack $300-$350 range.
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I agree with the pull weight comment as my Scopion's trigger pull is 3#-3.5# according to CZC (custom trigger and trigger job). But I'd still buy a Geissele if it were as good or better.
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ROFLFH!
$300-$350 for a 4.5-5# trigger pack!
Like Shooters Element said, same thing can be accomplished with the HBI $8.95 trigger spring kit and an aftermarket trigger or fluff and buff.
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I've got a couple of Geissele AR-15 triggers (the SD-3G $260.00 and a SD-E $250.00) and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are 100% worth the price. And no you can't get the same thing with the HBI $8.95 trigger spring kit and an aftermarket trigger, sorry, not even close. If you haven't shot an AR-15 or an AR-10 with a Geissele installed you don't know what these little jewels of perfection are capable of and you don't know what you're missing (plus they are pretty much bomb proof, ask a Navy Seal if they would trade their Geissele for anything else).
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ROFLFH!
$300-$350 for a 4.5-5# trigger pack!
Like Shooters Element said, same thing can be accomplished with the HBI $8.95 trigger spring kit and an aftermarket trigger or fluff and buff.
I've got a couple of Geissele AR-15 triggers (the SD-3G $260.00 and a SD-E $250.00) and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are 100% worth the price. And no you can't get the same thing with the HBI $8.95 trigger spring kit and an aftermarket trigger, sorry, not even close. If you haven't shot an AR-15 or an AR-10 with a Geissele installed you don't know what these little jewels of perfection are capable of and you don't know what you're missing (plus they are pretty much bomb proof, ask a Navy Seal if they would trade their Geissele for anything else).
Why would I ask a navy seal? You totally lost me with that comment. Why not ask an army ranger or a special forces force multiplier or a delta force operator or marine force recon? Everyone has their own preference. That's the main reason a delta force operative has the choice of what weapons to use.
I've used the aftermarket drop in trigger kits and I really don't care for them unless it were for completion shooting. Yeah, with some you can adjust pretravel and overtravel or ever adjust the pull weight. Some don't have the option for any adjustment. What it boils down to are smaller parts and tighter tolerances that don't bode well for field use and especially not for a blowback operated firearm where the trigger pack is exposed to copious amounts of, well "blowback".
Some things work well for some, but not so much for others. Everyone has their own opinion. So please don't play home school commando and say that because a navy seal might be using it, that it means it's the best of the best. If that were the case, then everyone out there who owns a Sig, needs to sell it now and pick up a glock "because the seals are doing it".
Off my soap box. I prefer the stock trigger with the HBI spring kit. Which just so happens to be a win-win for me since that saves me several hundred dollars and I enjoy this setup
Navy seals...wow
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If that were the case, then everyone out there who owns a Sig, needs to sell it now and pick up a glock "because the seals are doing it".
Well Glock > sig so...
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If that were the case, then everyone out there who owns a Sig, needs to sell it now and pick up a glock "because the seals are doing it".
Well Glock > sig so...
Agreed. I have 3 with no intention of parting with them. I've also HAD 2 sigs before, never again
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My department issue is the Sig P250. Not only is it a Sig, it's like the worst one Sig's ever made. Double action only... Off duty is a Glock =)
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I am not a firearms designer or engineer; but, I do not know how Geissele could design a trigger pack for the Scorpion Evo. But then again, I am not Mr. Geissele. I have spoken to Mr. Geissele and he is a top notch professional all the way. I just do not think Geissele is interested at this time.
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People comparing the EVO trigger to an AR type trigger. (Geissele or not)..sorry apples to oranges. Ours are more like an AK double hook style. I have the HBI flat trigger, springs and a few other parts & with about 3 hours of hand (mirror) polishing of all other internal contact parts. The trigger is a VERY SMOOTH 4 lb, with a crisp break. It's just that it's about a mile long pull still.
One of my buddies has some AR's with Geissele triggers. They are about a .375" long pull, smooth & crisp with short resets. simply fantastic
If some came up with a (totally new design) short pull 3.5# pull, short reset. I'd pay LOTS for one, but that's just me!