The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: SPO1SHADOW on December 25, 2015, 12:49:14 PM
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I picked up and old worn out ratty looking pre-B last week. The finish is worn and rusting, it has been dropped twice on the muzzle and has an egg shaped muzzle crown. I thought about different coatings but I have decided that the old method of slow rust bluing is what I want. With the current warm wet weather conditions it should be easy to make it happen.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/a%20cz.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/a%20cz.jpg.html)
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The first step after disassembly is stripping off the old Poly coat. This can sometimes be a large pain in the butt even for aircraft paint stripper. I have found that a few days covered and soaked in Acetone will speed this process along. Prior to the stripper application pictured here the slide, frame and the rest of the parts were in a large plastic container full of Acetone left to soak for a few days.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czd.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czd.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czb.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czb.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czc.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czc.jpg.html)
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This gun was treated poorly and for that reason was a good buy. Here is the barrel which I will be repairing rather than purchasing a new one. I will cut the barrel back even with the front of the slide and then put an 11 degree muzzle crown back on the flat face.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/cze.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/cze.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czf.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czf.jpg.html)
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So the old finish is coming off now in big patches and is compromised enough to now be easily carded off with a stainless brush. Once you get the Poly Coat off you are faced with the gray metal underneath. This gray treatment will resist rust or bluing so it must be removed to a depth that the metal will accept a finish. Notice the difference between bare metal and the dull gray finish in the last picture. There is a lot of rust and scratches hidden under the original finish that will require draw filing. The real work now begins.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czg.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czg.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czi.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czi.jpg.html)
I managed to get all the pitting out of the right side of the frame and keep all the lines sharp and the writing intact.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czj.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czj.jpg.html)
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It's really starting to look good SP01
OH, by the way....That's not just a "Pre B", it's really a CZ75 Transitional
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I cringe to think that someone would do this to a gun in the first place. Good luck on your repairs, post pics when it's done?
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Well, I have spent the whole day on this thing. My fingers are sore and I am worn out so I think it's time to quit for the night. I have all of the pitting filed out of both sides of the frame and the slide and managed to keep all of the stamping nice, clean and readable. All that is left before the bluing starts is the final polish and a few details on the smaller parts. I appreciate the encouragement and hope you had a great Christmas Day, I know I did doing exactly what I wanted for a change.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czk.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czk.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czl.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czl.jpg.html)
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Looking great SP01! If you get a chance, I'd like more info on how you removed the pitting. Tools, process, etc.
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Very nice job.
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Looking great SP01! If you get a chance, I'd like more info on how you removed the pitting. Tools, process, etc.
Draw filing can be a tedious process at best. I use a 12 inch file purchased from Brownell's with a wooden handle on one end and use 2 fingers on the other end. The file is placed across the flat surface of the slide or frame at an angle and drawn back to you. Always use a brand new, sharp file, never apply a lot of pressure and you must keep the file parallel to the surface. Work slowly and try to take an even amount while at the same time blending your file strokes into the metal. I usually coat the flats of the metal with a black marker which will not only show you where you are but also will show you where the low spots are. Always try not to file off the stamped writing in the metal and especially the serial numbers. I don't know of a quicker way to remove small pits and imperfections on auto pistols and still keep all the lines of the gun looking sharp. When you are very close to removing the damage and also making the sides perfectly flat switch to some 80 grit sandpaper on the file and flat file in the other direction or across the draw filing until all the filing marks have been removed. Wrap the sandpaper tightly on the file and keep your strokes parallel to the surface until the file marks are gone. If you are going to hot blue the gun you will want to keep doing this with finer paper until all the sanding marks are gone and you reach a high gloss polish. For rust bluing you can stop at 400 grit.
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When you polish it don't go any finer than 320 grit, it needs to be rough enough to get a good even blue. It will be nice if you take your time. It may take two to three weeks depending how dark you want it but it will be nice. Boil in water, apply solution, allow it to rust for 24 hours until it is a nice orange, boil in water until it is a black oxide, card off the gun, rinse & repeat. It is a long labor intensive job but I did a S&W model 19 and it turned out amazing.
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Very cool. Thanks for the info guys.
Merry Christmas
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SP01, are you going to undercut the trigger guard and the beaver tail a little bit while it is stripped down?
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Yes, I will do both. I have CGW sights to install along with all new internals with the polishing, extended firing pin and springs for the action.
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Love the work you're doing, looks like a Christmas miracle to me. Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Good going. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to more updates.
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Nice, cant wait to see the finished product.
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So much for slow rust bluing. As I said yesterday the weather conditions here for rust bluing were perfect today. 75 degrees and 100 humidity. I had red rust every 2 hours all day long. After the 5th coat, boil and card I decided it was enough. I put the first coat on last night before going to bed and this morning even inside the basement she was bright red. Every other coat today hung outside and every 2 hours I had a good coat of rust. This thing looks better than a factory hot salt blue job and I am extremely happy with the results. In the pictures it is coated in 30 weight ND motor oil which I will leave it that way for several days while the bluing seasons. I can't wait to put all the new goodies in and take it out to the backyard range.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czm.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czm.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czo.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czo.jpg.html)
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That's a fine bluing job there, Shadow. Where'd you learn to do all of this, if you don't mind me asking? My experience is with wood, not metal.
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My Grandfather and Great Grandfather were both gunsmiths. I picked up a lot of "how to's" hanging around with those guys.
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Zoweee, that was quick! Looking amazing. So much more depth than the polycoat.
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Thats impressive. Well done.
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I would have never thought it would happen that fast, my S&W mod 19 took a couple of weeks to do. I think a nice rust blue looks 10X's better than hot caustic bluing.
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After seeing this, I might pick up a transitional beater and ask you for a few tips. Its one thing to buy a nice gun. Its another feeling to take something and make it great again. Nice work!
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Very nice work, that is one good looking pistol.
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I don't know if it's the camera, lighting or what but it looks to have a rainbow color case hardened look to it.
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I don't know if it's the camera, lighting or what but it looks to have a rainbow color case hardened look to it.
The oil and lighting is causing the multi-colored look. It turned out more of a brilliant blue than any I have done previously. Most come out looking a little more subdued and satiny looking. This is the fastest I have ever done one but the weather this week is absolutely perfect for rust bluing. The CZ guns use a hard metal and if you get far enough below the gray it takes bluing really well. I found out how truly hard the metal was when I was trying to flatten out the underside of the beaver tail and blend the metal where the trigger guard meets the grip. Tough stuff! It turned even darker this morning so I will let it cook for another day or so before assembly. Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czp.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czp.jpg.html)
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I know that the steel really is hard as wood pecker lips.
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That looks great. So much nicer than the factory polycoat.
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Very nice!
I take it that you scratched in Knoxville, TN?
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Very nice!
I take it that you scratched in Knoxville, TN?
No, that was the importer stamp. I started to remove it but decided to just to leave it alone.
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Thinking about cutting some blanks out of some type of hardwood for some practice on making CZ Grips , then going to some dark brazilian walnut and making a few sets, maybe even learning how to checker. I did a pretty good job on my first project (Refinishing a Mossberg 395T stock). Would love to have a pretty blued gun like this to put a set on.
I'll tell you guys if I ever decide to get off my rear and do it.
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Amazing work!
Comparing the old, beaten up warhorse from the first pic to your latest is astonishing! You wouldn't believe they are the same gun.
I would definitely say you're getting some good returns on your time and effort. Thanks for sharing!
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What's your address so I can send in a couple of mine?
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Good work is it's own reward. Kudos are therefore redundant. Mine are offered anyway!
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Beautiful, you sir are an artist. Please post pics of the final product.
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(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czq.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czq.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czr.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czr.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czs.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czs.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czt.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czt.jpg.html)
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It's a christmas miracle. That looks amazing!
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Barrel cut and re crowned? What sights; recut required?
With a finish like that, why would anyone want a baked on paint job?!!
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The sights are Dawson's and yes I had to take about .40 off of the rear rib under the sight to get them on. I still need to lap the chatter marks out of the crown. I am out of the lapping compound I will need and the lap so I am waiting on Brownell's to make a delivery. I also have a new hammer on order, maybe the finishing touches by the end of the week.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czw.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czw.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czv.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czv.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czx.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czx.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czy.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czy.jpg.html)
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That, is what a gun is supposed to look like!
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Very nice post.
Great to see that a blued finish restoration of a factory poly finish can have such nice results.
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What type of magazines does it use, pre B or post B?
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I opened up the frame, it will drop free on either. CZ, Meg-gar or any of the rest of the off brands I have around here. That was the first thing I did before stripping the finish. It came with an old Meg-gar I had to pries, tug and beat out of it.
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Basically a post B frame and pre B slide, correct?
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It is something on that order. It is a true transitional model. When I received it nothing but a factory magazine would enter the frame, if you did manage to get it in it took 30 minutes to get it back out. It has the Pre-B safety on the frame but has the squared trigger guard and ribbed slide and pinned front sight. So far everything from a modern B series has fit it other than the safety and the rear sight. I fitted a type one disco to it so the trigger has no movement or take up in single action with a very short reset and I also modified the double action so the trigger sits much further back but no second screw in the trigger to boot you out of Production.
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Looks awesome! Do you know what chemicals are in the rusting solution?
What would happen if the metal wasn't smoothed out before bluing for example if you just stripped the original finish and then reblued but left the pits/dings?
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Rust bluing is a lot like a box of chocolates. You never know how it will turn out or how much trouble you are going to have even if you do everything correctly. This was the quickest I job I have ever done. I have done guns it took weeks to do so you just never know what you are going to get until you put on that first coat. I have several brands of rust bluing on hand and some home made solutions. Pilkington's works well on some project, Laurel Mountain is better on others. A lot of the magic depends on the type of steel you are working with and the weather. If you leave rust and imperfections you will still have rust and blotchy imperfections on the gun when you are done. The gray steel under the poly coat on a CZ will not take rust bluing. It also won't take hot caustic bluing and I have not tried it but I would bet cold bluing wouldn't work either. The surface has to be free of rust and grease and polished no finer than 400 grit to get good results in my experience. It is just like painting a car, the prep is much more important than applying the finish, which is a whole subject in its self. Rust bluing chemical goes on as close to a dry patch as you can get with no overlap or extra rubbing. Rust bluing will not fill in pits either and if you leave rust on the surface it will remain rust in the end.
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If you have different hardness of steels it will look a lot different.
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My back ordered brass lap finally showed up today but so far no new hammer. It should be here on Saturday so I will still finish before weeks end. Lapped all the chatter marks out today and if the weather holds will shoot some groups tomorrow to check out the new crown job.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czbarrel.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czbarrel.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czbbarrel.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czbbarrel.jpg.html)
While I had the barrel out I loaded a 147 ACME coated bullet out to 1.150 OAL and throated the barrel for an easy plunk and spin. The lead in this barrel was cut very short and was showing some serious looking tool marks. Not only can I load as far out as the magazine would like but I cleaned up the lead nicely. I also went ahead and polished all of the machine marks out of the feed ramp.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZBARR.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZBARR.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZBARRE.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZBARRE.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZBAR.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZBAR.jpg.html)
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I noticed that the slide lock tab was cutting the coating off of the coated bullet so I shortened and polished it up so it does not touch the bullets while feeding or when the loaded magazine is removed. It is still plenty long enough to lock the slide on the last round.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZLOCK.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZLOCK.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZLO.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZLO.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZLOC.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZLOC.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/CZMAG.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/CZMAG.jpg.html)
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You really have some talent to bring this gun back the way you did. I think the barrel crown looks better than the factory barrel but will it affect accuracy either for the good or bad?
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Well, the gun had been dropped at least twice landing on the muzzle. The end of the barrel was shaped like an egg instead of being round with a big gouge of metal sticking up into the bore. I shot a group with it for before and after comparisons. Today, weather permitting, I will shoot another group at 15 yards and we will see. I have never seen a re-crown or a lead throating hurt accuracy, most of the time it is improved, in this case it should be vastly improved shooting from a perfectly concentric crown. The proof will be in the pictures either way, we shall see later today.
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The top group was shot today the lower group was shot a couple of weeks ago when I brought the gun home. Obviously there is a drastic difference between the 2 groups. This is a better group than I can get out of my Shadow at 15 yards. I think I am pleased enough with this one that I now have a new #1. The Shadow and the BD will go into the back up gun position. The group is shot with ACME 147 grain coated FP's, 3.3 grns of N320 loaded to 1.135 OAL using new Federal brass and Federal small pistol match primers.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czgroup.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czgroup.jpg.html)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czgr.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czgr.jpg.html)
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As an aside, SP01, in your experience, does the 75 shoot 124 grain & 147 grain bullets better than 115 grain bullets?
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I don't think I could make a broad statement and say every gun likes one bullet weight better than others. In my experience you just have to experiment to find out. Today I am just lucky that I found a load right out of the gate that this guns seems to like. My Shadow seems to prefer 124 grain bullets but my BD likes 147's better. I don't ever shoot 115 grain bullets unless I find I cannot get a decent group with the other 2 mentioned. If pressed I would say that most guns will shoot 124 grain bullets decently and there may be some small advantage by going either up or down in weight. If I could only have one bullet weight it would be the 124's.
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Thank you. I have mostly shot revolver cartridges in my day. As I get into 9mm, it does seem that the world standard is 124, but all the cheaper bulk ammo is 115. <shrug>
Thanks again!
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The groupings are night and day difference. I don't think it would get any better with a high priced target pistol.
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You must be proud of yourself on the rebuild.
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When I get the hammer installed tomorrow and fit the safety and fine tune the trigger bar lift spring I think I will be satisfied with all the time spent. I had a good time and had something to keep me out of trouble during my Holiday vacation.
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You are a tinkerer, satisfaction will always elude you as it does the rest of us.
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You may be on to something .........
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Installed the new CGW hammer today, adjusted the trigger bar spring for 5/32" above the bar and fitted the safety to the new hammer. I think a little skate board tape to the front and rear of the grip frame and we will call this project done. I came out with a crisp 2 pound single action pull and a 6.5 pound double action as smooth as glass. Thanks for riding along with me.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czdo.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czdo.jpg.html)
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Amazing!!!
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Amazing!!!
Truly
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Thanks you for sharing the ride with us. It's one of those posts that had me checking to see what's next in eager anticipation. I'm looking forward to having some bluing work done in the future and, not knowing anything about the process, it was quite informative to see the work involved and the transformation. I'll now always look at those surplus CZs and imagine the possibilities!
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Wow, that really looks fantastic! Nice job!
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I discovered a few things today during an extended test session. Every now and then the hammer would fall to the half cock notch during single action fire. I took it back apart and stoned an angle on the lower half of the wing on the #1 disco. This solved that problem. I polished up the whole disco and re-installed it. Fired another 400 rounds of perfection. Also, the VZ grips pictured were keeping the Meg-Gar aftermarket magazines from entering easily or dropping free. The grip panels enter the magazine well just enough to make magazine extraction difficult by rubbing on each side. I had previously opened the magazine well in the upper and lower part of the frame so it would accept both pre-B and aftermarket mags so this had me going for a brief while. I installed a set of factory rubber grips and the problem was gone. I have a set of checkered Rosewood grips being made for the gun but the factory rubbers will do just fine until they arrive. Thanks again for all the kind words and comments.
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Thanks you for sharing the ride with us. It's one of those posts that had me checking to see what's next in eager anticipation. I'm looking forward to having some bluing work done in the future and, not knowing anything about the process, it was quite informative to see the work involved and the transformation. I'll now always look at those surplus CZs and imagine the possibilities!
That is what I see every time I look at one of those old beaten up guns. I did a restoration on a BD earlier this year that was in much worse condition than this one and it turned our very nice.
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I received my grips in today and installed them. I am done with this project and have started on another. A friend purchased a really screwed up BD off of Gunbroker and I agreed to do a resto on it. If you are interested in seeing it let me know. This one is going to take a while.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czend.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czend.jpg.html)
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Yes, please post the progress with new gun too.
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Yes, please post the progress with new gun too.
+1 on that. I was very impressed with your results on the gun and it was a very interesting read.
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You can't stop at just one with CZs. Feed the addiction with another rebuild progress.
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Yes, please post the progress with new gun too.
Please post new project!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'd like to see a thread on the new project as well.
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Absolutely! It looks like your next one will be quite a challenge.
Personally, I love seeing the progression and the talent it takes to do what you did.
Very cool.
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I received my grips in today and installed them. I am done with this project and have started on another. A friend purchased a really screwed up BD off of Gunbroker and I agreed to do a resto on it. If you are interested in seeing it let me know. This one is going to take a while.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/czend.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/czend.jpg.html)
Why did you go from the VZ grips to the wood grips? Just curious......
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Because the VZ's were going into the mag well far enough on each side to keep me from inserting a magazine freely. They were rubbing on both sides. I like the wood better anyway. There is no difference in the way they feel.
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Well I understand that, I know there is just something appealing about wood grips. I don't think they are as durable as the VZ grips but it should be good for many decades if they are not abused.
BTW, those grips go well with the old school rust blue, looks from 1950's.
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Hey SP01shadow - thanks for the PM link to this. Very informative and very appreciated that you spent the time to inform us of what you did and how you did it. I would love to learn more about gunsmithing - find all things mechanical to be fascinating. Guess that is why I restore cars....oh well...it's another disease! Now more tools to buy - someday. :)
Keep us posted on what you are working on!
I'm glad I stumbled upon this site!!
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You are most welcome sir. I do have another one in the pipe right now that I am trying to get. So we will see.
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I am doing a 73 Nova right now myself. so I hear where you are coming from....more tools.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/73%20Nova%20build.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/73%20Nova%20build.jpg.html)
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Very nice. Yes, lots of work and lots of time! (we won't mention the $). Is the cooler in front for the tranny or engine oil? Did you powder coat the upper control arms, etc or paint? I tried Por15 twice - biggest mistake ever!
My latest (and it is taking forever) project is a 1957 Plym. Belvedere.
I was gonna post a pic here, but don't have any on a web accessible area - oh well. Something else to do.
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Pulled every piece, nut, bolt and washer out and replaced them, had the frame and all of the front suspension powder coated and the added the roll cage and the frame connectors and welded them into place. I have been working on this for 2 years but every single piece has been updated, modified or replaced, this thing should handle like a vett and run like a scalded haint. :)